Microsoft Retrofitting Windows 7, 8.1 With Windows 10's Privacy-Invading 'Features'
from the unavoidable-Redmond-umbilical dept
Last week we noted that while Windows 10 has generally seen good reviews in terms of spit and polish, there's growing concern that the OS is too nosy for its own good, and that the opt-out functionality in the OS doesn't really work. Even when you've disabled a number of the nosier features (like Windows 10's new digital assistant, Cortana), the OS ceaselessly and annoyingly opens an array of encrypted channels back to the Redmond mother ship that aren't entirely under the user's control.Now some of the information being transmitted is purportedly harmless, and some of the problems appear to be overblown (like Windows 10 being banned from some BitTorrent trackers for fear of it reporting user piracy activity), but an operating system you can't fully control is still undeniably stupid and annoying. And it's a curious choice for a company intent on moving beyond the fractured Windows adoption of yesteryear and encouraging the lion's share of Windows users to hop on to a new platform.
Making matters worse, Microsoft now seems intent on retro-fitting its older operating systems (specifically Windows 7 and Windows 8.1) with many of the annoying, chatty aspects of Windows 10. GHacks has noticed that four updates to the older operating systems, described as an "update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry," connect to vortex-win.data.microsoft.com and settings-win.data.microsoft.com. These addresses are hard-coded to bypass the hosts file, and ferry all manner of personal information back to Microsoft.
Fortunately, it appears that users in this instance can configure Windows firewall and routers to block the traffic, and users can avoid much of the snooping by opting out of the Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP):
"The concern with the new Diagnostic Tracking service is much the same as with Windows 10's tracking: it's not clear what's being sent, and there are concerns that it can't be readily controlled. The traffic to Microsoft's servers is encrypted, sent over HTTPS, so it can't be easily examined. While the knowledge based articles describing the new service list the DNS names of the servers that the service connects to, there are reports that the service ignores the system HOSTS file. As such, a traditional and simple method for redirecting the traffic doesn't work.Still, it's annoying that Microsoft continues to insist on expanding this kind of OS behavior, without making opting out simple and comprehensive. And it certainly doesn't exactly deflate arguments by folks like Richard Stallman, who consistently argue that Windows is effectively malware. More than anything though, it's a continued advertisement for Linux and operating systems that the end user actually has some degree of control over.
However, we're not sure just how big an impediment this is in practice; in our testing of Windows 8, the builtin Windows Firewall, for example, is more than capable of blocking the traffic, and this appears to be working entirely as it should. Disabling the service is also effective for those who don't trust its behavior."
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Filed Under: privacy, windows, windows 10, windows 7, windows 8
Companies: microsoft
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Re:
I had several boxes set up so that I could use all the big distributions.
That stopped about several years ago not because I wanted to stop but because to continue I would have had to buy a complete net set of hardware which I could not afford - time wise to set up more than cost wise.
From that experience I learned the following:
Linux will always be completely unstable and never useful for business.
Why?
1. Engineers will not quit tinkering with it. There is no distribution stability thus there is no way a business can depend on the system being the same tomorrow as it is today.
2. Too many distributions.
3. Hatred of commercial programs by too many coders.
4. Impossible to run Windows programs on a Linux box if you are not a super geek. This is important because most business users are not running a computer operating system but a program that does a specific application as such the operation operating system is chosen that will run the program.
5. Hatred, literally hatred of the ides of allowing development of any application that has business applications by a very large number of geeks.
6. Apple's OS which is based on BSD has all the same fundamental issue that Linux has. Not enough users to make it worthwhile for anyone to develop complex business programs for. That is why critical business programs like accounting (to some degree) and CAD (to a high degree) do not run on either Apple or Linux only on Windows.
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Funny thing how linux beats all other os's in the enterprise by a huge margin.
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But as a user platform, I'm not seeing it.
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You are 'using' a linux server at this very moment.
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(And I'm just book-seller).
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Bollocks. There are many different distributions with varying different aims. Some distros are roundly criticised for NOT changing things quickly enough. There's also nothing to force you to upgrade if you don't like it. Unless you're on a support contract, fire up an older distro and stick with that if you prefer.
"2. Too many distributions."
Translation: I'm scared and don't know what I'm doing. There's several well-known distros, but it's Ubuntu and Mint that tend to be focussed upon for the end user side of things. Do 2 choices really scare you?
"3. Hatred of commercial programs by too many coders."
The same commercial programs that refuse to work with FOSS software, that they have to reverse-engineer constantly to get basic file formats to work on Linux? the ones that often show outright hostility to anything not running on Microsoft? Wow, I wonder why?
"4. Impossible to run Windows programs on a Linux box if you are not a super geek"
Utter bullshit, but I can see where you're going with this. You want to run one specific program, you gave up after finding out that WINE doesn't have an easy "click here to do everything for me" button, and thus it's no good for anyone regardless of their needs.
But, let me guess- you're not going to blame Microsoft for it being even more difficult to run a native OSX or Linux application on Windows? Double standards are fantastic, aren't they?
Newsflash: many Windows programs run flawlessly on Linux with minimal configuration and compatibility and toolsets are improving all the time. But, it's not the fault of Linux that you absolutely depend on an application that doesn't run on an OS it wasn't written for. If a Windows box can't run Pixelmator, I don't go whining about Microsoft.
"5. Hatred, literally hatred of the ides of allowing development of any application that has business applications by a very large number of geeks."
Citation needed.
"6. Apple's OS which is based on BSD has all the same fundamental issue that Linux has. Not enough users to make it worthwhile for anyone to develop complex business programs for"
Now you're saying that OSX doesn't have business applications? I'm glad you managed to find this site from whatever alternate reality you're posting from, but please take the time to adjust to our reality before commenting again.
"That is why critical business programs like accounting (to some degree) and CAD (to a high degree) do not run on either Apple or Linux only on Windows."
Oh, right, YOUR preferred niche isn't specifically catered to, so the 99.9% of people who need neither type of application are wasting their time? Glad to see you're blaming the OS instead of the developers for their choice to only support one platform, though. That's the kind of attitude that ensures that millions of OSx and Linux users will never have their needs catered to, and thus continue the cycle of dependence and ignorance.
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I've had my servers running Linux for over 15 years, but I'm still forced to do my client-side development on Windows boxes. Why? Because the old paradox is still in effect: I develop for Windows because most people still use Windows, and most people still use Windows because the bulk of non-technical software is written exclusively for MS OSs.
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A huge number of people are wrong and either basing their opinions on outdated information, or outright fiction.
I'm not sure of the best way to battle this, but calling people out on it is the best way i have right now...
"most people still use Windows because the bulk of non-technical software is written exclusively for MS OSs"
This is true, but it's not due to a failing of said non-MS OSes. Again, I'm unsure of the best way to deal with this, since the mindshare was essentially taken before Linux and OSX existed, but it's not a failing of those alternative systems.
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Re: Re: Re: I've used linux since kernel 0.98, and:
I remember Ubuntu changing the whole X windows framework and default windows manager in a MINOR upgrade revision. And that is just one example, there have been dozens of WTF moments in Slackware, Debian, etc. etc. etc.
And there is obviously some EEE stuff going on in the Linux world, predominantly coming out of Redhat. While nobody refutes that a better subsystem was needed for implementing the newer kernel features, systemd was pretty much an irish car bomb dropped on Linux. Probably at the behest of Redmond in response to some back room deal. (INI files, and symlinks? Jesus....)
Application stability IS a problem. Divergent OS trees result in divergent source dependency trees, and getting more than a few consumer apps working at the same time sucks.
Configuration uniformity is terrible and getting worse, and YES even security is an utter fustercluck. It is fair to say that the dickishness that has steered a lot of development away from OpenBSD, IS the more enlightened way.
It is hard to explain to people, that there are HARDWARE problems that need to get solved before you should be doing certain things with software.
Intel and AMD are both suffering because those architecture problems aren't getting solved. The software industry won't port software to new hardware, unless they MAKE money doing it. And right now their financial holdings in bandaid companies like Norton reflect enough of their core revenue stream, that they have ZERO motivation to make anything more secure.
So broken and insecure is more profitable that repaired, and the liars are the only ones making money. Most people would rather get owned than go without their narcicism accelerator 14.1 application. That is just the way it is.
At this point the impetus is on AMD and Intel, or some new chip company to blow the doors of the market, by making an architecture that is designed to provide hardware level code isolation. Then convince the fed to mandate all federal computers use that hardware, and bobs your uncle.
But nope. Apparently not a lot of folks at Intel or AMD heard Linus when he said:
This is not a d**k-sucking contest. And THAT is why the Internet is busted.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I've used linux since kernel 0.98, and:
...which is bad, but totally comparable to the changes made in Windows 8. Nobody wanted Metro, and the 8.1 changes did confuse a lot of end users. Have you got any examples that don't apply equally to Microsoft, or are you going to let them pass just because?
"It is hard to explain to people, that there are HARDWARE problems that need to get solved before you should be doing certain things with software. "
...and this is a problem with Linux, how? Are we blaming software providers for chipset architectural issues now?
I know roughly what you're trying to say, but it's weak.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I've used linux since kernel 0.98, and:
Yes. Remember using physical keys to secure computers? Instead of using that model, we got UEFI. Which was a architectural decision made by hardware vendors that accomplished nothing except raising barrier to entry for everyone BUT Microsoft.
Wouldn't it have been easier to put a jumper on the hard disk and the motherboard to physically lock the boot sector and the BIOS? Consider that then look at UEFI. You'll likely draw the same conclusion. UEFI was a straight up street mugging.
So yes, current hardware architecture decisions appear as if they are being made with the intention of maintaining the consumer market in a broken insecure state.
Why? When the hardware is secure, the leverage provided by the OS will dilute. OS specific security updates will be less important. Which means alternative consumer OS options will gain market share.
I imagine the "walled garden" aka "man in the middle attack", is an attempt to get ahead of this. If they can't own the whole install base, they will break the Internet instead. Essentially inserting themselves in a position to chill free speech in the same manner that certain carriers have been trying to do. (note that the FCC NN regs, don't apply in this case, since the capacity is managed on the back end)
This isn't just about money. If you paid attention to Bush v. Gore, Diebold, and the conveniently dropped Microsoft Anti Trust case, you might consider that there are ramifications of the "walled garden" aka "MIM attack" that present a threat to free speech, free trade, and constitutional governance in general.
You have to wonder when the DOJ and the various states attorneys will notice. Probably when they change the flag on the building. Your right. Probably not even then.
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The business I work for uses OpenOffice for instance for all their paperwork (still using Windows XP though). There are ports of OpenOffice and LibreOffice for Linux.
Oh, and didn't you know? Supercomputers all mostly run Linux. Want to say to those organisations that they're being dumb for not running Windows?
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... but please try to come up with something new. These look like 1995 retreads, and we're tired of getting pummeled for the same old stuff all the time.
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What's that smell?
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Buying a car must scare you, with all the different makes and models that are available on the market.
The Free Software Foundation is not opposed to commercial programs, so please, stop lying about what their motives are. The problem is probably a the common misunderstanding of Free Software (and software engineering in general), where it is assumed that preventing the customer from seeing (or modifying) the source code is somehow prevents running a for-profit business.
Javascript is an existence proof that this assumption is incorrect. So are the numerous business - IBM, for example - that release their software under a Free Software licence. Do you really want to accuse IBM of "hating commercial programs"?
No, what you perceive as hatred are is a software model that respects the rights of the user. Typically, the only people that have a problem with that are the people that were trying to take advantage of user ignorance, often by hiding the shoddy quality of their work, and sometimes by hiding questionably-legal business practices. Stalking people and trespassing are still crimes, and the rights the the publisher still end at the first sale, regardless of whatever unconscionable terms people trying to throw at the user in an "EULA".
Now you're just making stuff up to fit how you wished the world worked. Or you're a paid shill.
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It's only autodesk products that are trapped on windows. And since they have now gone to an overpriced subscription model I can only see their user base shrinking.
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Linux is great for primary network functionality. Actually accomplishing stuff besides configuring network protocols, editing text files and looking a pron between *intense coding sessions*... not occurring. I know y'all try hard, but if I can't plug in a graphics tablet, USB audio interface and midi controller and have them do what they're supposed to without hunting down 3rd party drivers and fucking with the command line to implement patches of dubious provenance, I just cannot be arsed.
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Or maybe people prefer ease of use to having to research the hell out of making their OS simply work. Not everyone enjoys slogging through forums looking for ways to do everything they could easily do in Windows/OSX.
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I suggest that you don't actually do anything with computers besides surf the web for pron and do intense coding sessions.
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Here's what the Ardour manual has to say about VSTs:
" Thanks to the combined work of Torben Hohn, Kjetil Mattheusen, Paul Davis and a few other developers, it is possible to use Windows VST plugins (that is, plugins in VST format built and distributed for the Windows platforms) on Ardour running on Linux. (Note: there is no VST support of any kind on OS X).
However, doing so has three substantial downsides:
It requires a special build of Ardour that is fundamentally very different from normal builds.
Support depends on Wine, a Windows "emulator".
As usual with plugins, a crashing plugin will take Ardour down with it. And crashes in Windows VST plugins are more likely when used in this way.
The dependence on Wine makes it almost impossible for the Ardour project to support this feature. Wine's functionality generally improves over time, but any given release of Wine may behave worse with some or all Windows VST plugins. It may even just crash Ardour completely.
Step back and think about what "using Windows VSTs" really means: taking bits of software written with only one idea in mind - running on the Windows platform - and then trying to use them on an entirely different platform. It is a bit of a miracle (largely thanks to the incredible work done by the Wine project) that it works at all. But is this the basis of a stable, reliable DAW for a non-Windows platform? Getting Ardour on Linux to pretend that its really a Windows application running on Windows?
We understand that there are many outstanding plugins available as Windows VSTs and that in many cases, no equivalent is available for Ardour's Linux-based users. If your workflow is so dependent on those plugins, then remain on Windows (or potentially consider using an actual Windows VST host running inside of Wine). If you can make the effort, you will get a better environment by using a normal build of Ardour and exploring the world of plugins built to run on Linux natively. This covers LADSPA, LV2 and Linux VST formats, and even some outstanding proprietary plugins such as those from LinuxDSP and Loomer. "
So no dude, it's not that I'm lazy, it's not that I'm stupid, it's that your fucking OS just doesn't fucking work.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
I do. I use Adobe Creative Suite, GIMP, and Inkscape everyday in my profession as a Graphic Designer. Adobe does some stuff better and the OS ones do other things better, but basically they are more or less interchangeable when it come to functionality.
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Even devout Gimp afficianadoes don't think that.
I admire your brand loyalty, I admire the upper case importance of you being a Graphic Designer, but that's a silly, silly thing to say.
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For what I use them for in my daily work load they are basically interchangeable. For some things, like filter effects, I find the OS ones to actually be easier with fewer steps. I am on an older version of Adobe, so that might make a bit difference too.
The price comparison obviously is tilted towards GIMP, since it's free and what does Adobe CS run these days? $4000 a seat? Another plus is that I can run GIMP with or without a internet connection (ie: on-site at customer's location) and you can't even begin to run Adobe Cloud without it phoning home.
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For me, it is. I could continue to keep up with my workflow with either one, with the possible exception of the lack of the proprietary Pantone Color System.
The issue of CMYK in GIMP has been addressed with a plugin. Although I've never used it since we get better results printing to our solvent ink jet printers with RBG anyways.
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I've only used it a few times so far, but it's supposed to be more user-friendly than GIMP, and it's interface and capabalities look quite Photoshoppy to my untrained eyes. I did spend a few hours playing with filters, of which there are hundreds.
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For you. For me Linux Mint works great and is what I use for everything but some web stuff. (Like forums)
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Re: Do you seriously think the Gimp and Inkscape are professional grade applications?
By all means, try to put together a proprietary-application team to compete against that lot. Photoshop, Maya, After Effects—are we into five figures yet? And we still haven’t covered all the bases.
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Works fine for me. If an OS that double as a massive malware honeypot and spying machine works better for your purposes, have at it. Just don't assume that because a tool doesn't meet your demand, that it meets nobody's. That's either idiotic or the epitome of narcissism.
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It's also the the only OS (Linux Mint) I use for everything else.
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For you, maybe. People who have bothered learning how to use Linux (as you had to do at some point with Windows) accomplish plenty. I'm sorry you're too lazy and stupid to work it out, but that's not the fault of the software on your computer.
"if I can't plug in a graphics tablet, USB audio interface and midi controller and have them do what they're supposed to without hunting down 3rd party drivers and fucking with the command line to implement patches of dubious provenance, I just cannot be arsed"
So, your main problem is you're a lazy bastard, and you'll blame the OS for not having drivers pre-installed rather than you not looking around and buying compatible hardware in the first place. I mean, Wacom even have a project whose entire point is to get their hardware running as easily as possible on Linux that includes a GUI. But, let me guess - you bought a cheapo off-brand Chinese knockoff and it's now Linux's fault that you can't run it out of the box?
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People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Hopefully this current trend of moving away from Windows OS into something else will end up producing an Open Source OS that an idiot can use and understand let alone Joe Average, but I don't expect the Linux community to make that OS unless they change their culture of only making programs for other programmers first.
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Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
This is simply not true.
an "OS that an idiot can use"
Maybe idiots should not be using computers
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Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
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Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Who suggested a degree was necessary?
I do not own a horse, if I did it would;d not be getting high.
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Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Every time I've ever tried to figure how to do something in Linux that wasn't obvious, 90-100% of the help I can find online is command line only. And most of the suggestions are stuff I don't understand, and I used to used Linux regularly from the command line. To an average user, it may as well be Aramaic. To me, that is one of the biggest obstacles to widespread Linux adoption - I don't think the technically illiterate really want to muck with the command line.
On the other hand, maybe all anyone really cares about is having a browser, in which case you wouldn't need to look for help online.
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Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
The same often applies to window help as well, there is an example in the comments on this article. There is a simple reasons for this, it is easier to tell someone what to type that it is to describe the navigation through menus and tabs of an application. Also in the case of Linux, the command line is ubiquitous, but the graphic front ends are more variable.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Not in my experience. Now and then I find some advice about the command line, but I think more often not. Sometimes I'll run into something requiring editing the registry, which though not a command line is arguably as bad or worse. Again that's just me, I don't claim to have access to perfect data.
Also in the case of Linux, the command line is ubiquitous, but the graphic front ends are more variable.
Which means that will be a very difficult problem to fix (unless I'm wrong and it really isn't a problem at all).
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
The variety of desktops is not a problem, as different people have different preferences. Also, if people do not really know what they are doing, but are simply following instructions, does it make any difference if the solution describes use of a GUI, or the command line?
The GUI may look easier to use, but it often creates a false confidence, and allows people to break their system by random clicking on options.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
I think the difference is that with a GUI you might gain some understanding of what you're doing as you do it. That's not true with pasting some Greek into Bash, and most moms are not going to take the time to learn what each part of that command they used actually means.
The GUI may look easier to use, but it often creates a false confidence, and allows people to break their system by random clicking on options.
What if it's not false? There is always a chance people will break their systems of course. But I think that's better than making it so uncomfortable to make changes to the system that they try to avoid doing it.
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Exactly so, though it's also true that I haven't been using Linux very much recently and I'm only describing my experience. I might be an outlier. I also want to be clear that Linux is awesome and my comments are an expression of concern about its future, not a condemnation. I hope it really takes off big, but we're still waiting for The Year of the Linux Desktop. Then again maybe we're waiting for the wrong thing, and it will actually be a steady slow uptick in adoption. That would be fine too.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
The comments on this and other stories and general web browsing strongly indicate a significant and continually growing Linux userbase, but all in one year was always a fantasy. People just don't all go and simultaneously replace what they use like that. I know a few people who still have VHS decks.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Good! And I may join them...
People just don't all go and simultaneously replace what they use like that.
I would say they might, but so many people hated Vista with such a passion and that didn't do it, so yeah probably not going to be a massive and sudden adoption even if people hate Windows 10.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Exactly, and quite frankly that is what's happening. It's been "the year of the Linux desktop" every year since desktop-focussed distros reached maturity. Millions of people use Linux as their primary desktop OS. It's just not reached any kind of mainstream critical mass.
While there's still people relating experiences with Linux a decade ago as if they were still accurate, or citing things they have to do occasionally as reasons not to use it at all, it's doubtful it ever will. Increasing support from the likes of GoG and Steam to bring familiar games across, and continued improvements in WINE will bring other users.
But, the main problem is peoples' dependence on brand names and familiarity - it doesn't matter how good LibreOffice becomes, for example, many people won't use it because it's not Microsoft Office, even if it fit their needs perfectly.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Nice theory. But, I still have to explain some basic features in Windows 7 to my Mum every time she needs something fixed, even though they've barely changed since Windows 98. People may generally get the idea that, say, they should look in the control panel if they need to find a type of option, but in my experience most end users don't gain a huge amount of knowledge if they're not already interested enough to have learned much of it on their own.
"What if it's not false?"
If they only feel like they know what they're doing because they're following instructions written by someone else, it is false.
"But I think that's better than making it so uncomfortable to make changes to the system that they try to avoid doing it."
Good thing the shell is not designed for that purpose, then. It's purely functional, and most Linux users turn to it first because it's normally much quicker and easier than a GUI.
GUIs may be more comfortable for the type of user who was trained to think like Microsoft's UI designers want them to think, but it's not a failing when people design software in a way not approved by Microsoft.
A lot of work has been done to get many different GUI alternatives for most major requirements, but if you're trying to get free support from forums you'll get an answer that the volunteer answering your question knows - and that will likely mean the shell.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Yeah that could be.
If they only feel like they know what they're doing because they're following instructions written by someone else, it is false.
And if they paid attention and thought about what they were doing, it might not be.
Good thing the shell is not designed for that purpose, then.
What purpose, making changes to the system? If you're suggesting it should be used for daily tasks, that's even worse. Hardly anyone wants to do that.
most Linux users turn to it first because it's normally much quicker and easier than a GUI.
If you're a good typist and already know how to use it, yes.
it's not a failing when people design software in a way not approved by Microsoft.
Of course not, it's perfectly fine. I'm just pondering Linux's potential for broad adoption.
A lot of work has been done to get many different GUI alternatives for most major requirements, but if you're trying to get free support from forums you'll get an answer that the volunteer answering your question knows - and that will likely mean the shell.
Yeah, that was my point. :-)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Call me hardly anyone. There's a reason why traditional *nix systems and software were configured by editing text files (as opposed to regedit massaging binary config files). It's the same reason why every *nix box in existence came with some form of vi editor.
Unfortunately, we're now heading into systemd-land, and I'll just bail out now, thanks. :-P
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
No, the purpose you stated:
"making it so uncomfortable to make changes to the system that they try to avoid doing it"
It's designed to make changes to the system as quick and easy as possible, a competent admin can make changes far more quickly and efficiently that would be possible in a GUI. If the trade-off is that it makes complete beginners a little uncomfortable because it's not the way Windows does things, well you're not going to get much sympathy.
"If you're a good typist and already know how to use it, yes."
There's many shortcuts (such as tab autocomplete), meaning that you don't have to be a good typist. Plus, people who know how to use it? Yes... those are the people you're asking for help in these situations!
"Of course not, it's perfectly fine. I'm just pondering Linux's potential for broad adoption."
It already has broad adoption. It's just not often a product you'll see on a shelf in Wal Mart, and it has 2 larger competitors in the desktop space (only one of the spaces in which it is available).
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Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Mint and Ubuntu are both easier for your standard user to grok than Windows is. Windows just has the advantage of a dominant position making everyone get trained for it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
When someone discusses using a Linux system, they are not talking about Android, regardless of how much Android is based on Linux.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
When someone says "I need to apply some patches on my Linux machine" that is not a reference to a phone. When someone asks "how do I do X in Linux" they are not asking about how to do it on Android.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
One of the hardest things for me to understand is why everyone learned to want to avoid the command line. It's a feature! You can talk directly to the OS and the machine through the CLI. Shell programming is a great way to learn programming, and a great way to automate tasks you do repetitively. Once you learn whichever commands do what you want done, stuff 'em into a shell script and schedule it as a cron job. Want better performance than bash? Use Korn or Z shell, or awk or sed, or perl, or python. Beats the crap out of basic.
Microsoft and Apple just made computing more complex and expensive and less reliable.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
It requires memorizing commands, which GUIs don't. I think most people are also not that good at typing, so a command line might actually be slower. For many tasks it also requires either typing or pasting in stuff you don't understand, or learning about the operating system at a level of detail most users have no interest in. There could be other reasons too.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
They can also lead to people thinking this is easy, and not taking the care to check things that they should, and then trying to blame the software because they left a major cost out of the spreadsheet they built, or stopped or started the sum one row early; resulting in them making a loss, rather than a profit.
When it comes to copying solutions found online, or via other sources, it does not really matter whether the describe a command line solution or a GUI solution if the person does not understand what they are doing, and if anything the command line solutions may be better if the causes people to stop and check before using it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
"When it comes to copying solutions found online, or via other sources, it does not really matter whether the describe a command line solution or a GUI solution if the person does not understand what they are doing"
QFT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
I don't understand that last part. A novice user is more likely to research a shell command they find online than to take the time to understand GUI instructions?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Its like may years ago someone sold the little wonder fuse blower, which was shorting switch in a plug. It came with the simple instructions:
"To blow fuse, plug in and press the button"
These instructions were so simple that it left many people in the dark, because it worked as described, and some people did not stop to think what would happen when the blew the fuse.
If that had been a simple kit where people had to assemble the switch to the plug top, and wire in in, which are simple operations, very few would have gone on to test it because wiring a plug is a scary operation to many people.
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I don't get it. Why would someone want to deliberately blow a fuse?
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Re: I don't get it. Why would someone want to deliberately blow a fuse?
The only thing I can think of is to test the fuse to make sure it blows at the right amperage (I think it's amps that does it). Of course that fuse is ruined but test a few and you can assume the rest of the batch are OK too.
Therefore they are more likely to check other sources before using the shell, but blindly follow GUI instructions blindly.
I do not buy that someone willing to blindly follow GUI instructions without understanding them would go to the trouble of getting a second opinion on a shell command, but OK.
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Re: Re: I don't get it. Why would someone want to deliberately blow a fuse?
I think the problem was that people saw to make this device function, plug in and switch on, and while they were not sure what it does, they were familiar with how to do it how to make it do it, and that won out. Get them to wire a switch across the pins of a plug, and they are likely to become suspicious of the instruction, and many people will investigate what they are being told and quickly realise it is not a good idea.
To cast this into computer terms, being told select system tools->format and then tick c: and click OK, seems familiar enough, that may people would not be suspicious about what they are being told to do, and often automatically confirm the action. Ask them to open a terminal and type format c: and many would stop to ask what does format do, and are much more likely to read the message that appears to confirm the action, because the terminal is a scary place compared to the safety of the GUI.
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Re: Re: Re: I don't get it. Why would someone want to deliberately blow a fuse?
That's the part I'm just not convinced about. I think many many people would unquestioningly type exactly that if they found some instructions that purported to solve whatever problem they were having.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I don't get it. Why would someone want to deliberately blow a fuse?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Only if you need to remember the solution. If it's a one-off thing, you're just copying and pasting information that you're not trying to remember. Same for most users trying to navigate a GUI - people will just blindly follow the directions, not think about what every detail means. If it's not a one-off thing, why would you not be bookmarking the page rather trying to remember it verbatim?
There's reasons to be critical of dependence on command lines in help files, but this particular line is weak. I'd liken it to having to edit the registry for the average user - you often don't understand what you're changing and might be justifiably scared of doing the wrong thing. You'll certainly not memorise every detail, and you will refer to documentation every time you make a change. But, I've never heard "I might need to edit the registry occasionally" as a reason not to use Windows.
It's also worth noting that some solutions require command line input on all the major OSes. It tends to be referred to more rarely in Windows because their users have been trained to avoid it, but there's definitely times where you either have to go there or it's much easier than trying to find where they put an option in their latest interface juggle.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Right, most of the stuff we do with computers, we do often. It's easier to remember where to go in a GUI than to remember what to type in a shell, and you don't have to remember the whole process with a GUI, because each step will give you visual clues about the next step. Many people would prefer not needing to either remember a command or look it up every time.
And remember the question I was answering is "why do some people dislike the command line?"
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
The simplest answer to that is they never bothered to learn to use it.
If you've used a command before, it's stored in shell history. If you have no idea what command you need, there's "apropos blah" and "man -k blah". For long commands that you type often, you stuff that whole command in an alias. There are *so* many slick, quick tools to do this stuff at a command line, it's ridiculous.
But if they never learned how, they're oblivious to all of it. GUI's the only way to them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
I disagree, as the shell not only has excellent help features if you remember part of the command, but also allows you to create a script for future use that will allow you to access a list of command with any degree of complexity via a name and location you choose yourself. Whereas, GUIs often cause problems because they can be inconsistent, Microsoft regularly moves things around between releases (even before Metro), and they're not always stored in logical locations so can easily be forgotten.
Now, I'll accept that a user who has only ever used a GUI will find a shell more daunting and confusing, but that's a matter of training. People also get lost trying to configure OSX if they've never had to much in the past. They also have to drop to a command prompt on certain occasions (as do Windows users), but I never see it cited as a reason not to use those OSes. It's perfectly possible to use and administer your Linux system without seeing a command prompt, but when you're asking for help, the experienced user you're talking to will give you the easiest and quickest solution - which my be in the shell.
I understand what you're trying to get at, but these argument basically boil down to "Linux doesn't act like Windows" and "it's easier for experienced users than it is for newbies". Which is kind of the point...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
All too often, even in Windows, the command line is actually the easiest and certainly quickest way to do a task, but many seem too enamoured of the mindless-pointy-clickyness of it all to bother to find out how. Hell, the number of people who work on computers who don't even bother with keyboard shortcuts for copy-pasta etc is scary enough!
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Re: understand at least some console commands to use it on a daily basis
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Re: People are switching to Mac too not just Linux
Based on that logic Microsoft should stop making Visual Studio... you do realise this is a program written by programmers for programmers, and Steve Balmer is famous for putting programmers first.
Second, please refer to my earlier comment in this thread. Unless you consider Hydrogen, the programmable Drum Machine, a program written for programmers, simply because as a Musician I have to program the drum tracks, using a graphical piano roll style interface, I don't see where any of the software I use was written for programmers.
Nor, for that matter do I see how my accounting software, my Office software, my Photo editing software, my graphics software, my media player software, my Internet Browser, my twitter frontend, my Open Source Games (as seperate from my proprietary games) are in any way developed specifically for programmers... although I'm sure many of them are also used by programmers.
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CEIP
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Re: CEIP
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Re: Re: CEIP
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Re: Re: Re: CEIP
Solution 1: use built-in environment variables that you hope won't be ignored or deprecated, and obsessively monitor log outputs for anything suspicious.
Solution 2: switch to an OS that you trust not to be spying on you even when you've specifically asked it not to.
I believe I'll be taking door #2, thanks.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: CEIP
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*OK, you may *not* have the choice of whether to use MS products in a production environment, but that's a different discussion. Yes, if you have no choice and you're savvy enough to keep checking the logs then your solution is fine in theory, but I wouldn't trust them not to be pulling other tricks now or in the future.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CEIP
My only goal was to explain how to decode the traffic, since as quoted: "but it's hard to be certain". As I handle some of this for a living, I thought I would throw out a suggestion. If you don't like that one, you can also hijack schannel with a DLL attack as I do believe that would be a low level system level hack within MS's encryption itself. Check out NetRipper: https://github.com/NytroRST/NetRipper
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CEIP
If I was that worried about it, I'd use a FOSS system that came from a company without a history of screwing over the interest of its users. But, you can use your solution if you prefer, it's just not for me.
"My only goal was to explain how to decode the traffic, since as quoted: "but it's hard to be certain". "
Yes, but I approached it a level above that. Rather than try to find a way to monitor a problem, I prefer to find a solution that removes the problem.
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Re: CEIP
There, fixed it for ya!
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Re: Re: CEIP
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Re: Re: Re: CEIP
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Re: Re: Re: Re: CEIP
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Re: Re: CEIP
Microsoft need to be up front about what they're collecting; if anything personal or confidential is involved this could have a bearing in law.
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Re: Re: Re: CEIP
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Re: Re: Re: CEIP
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'good reviews'?!?!? Really!?!?!
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Re: 'good reviews'?!?!? Really!?!?!
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Re: Re: 'good reviews'?!?!? Really!?!?!
I am very tech-literate and prefer Mint and Cinnamon. But I came from kubuntu, so I can relate.
That was the best day ever, when my best friend told me he was tired of Windows and went out and bought a Mac. Up until that point, I was constantly over at his house helping him or someone in his family with some issue that needed to be fixed. After buying the Mac, and an initial "here is how you move your files over to the new computer," I never got a since tech support call. Wish he didn't have to spend so much money on a decent machine, but at least he isn't calling me any more about problems with his system.
The more people I move off of Windows, the number of service calls for family and friends have dropped drastically (and it isn't that they aren't using the system, I visit their house for other reasons and they usually are using it and show me all the stuff they are now proud they can do on their own without calling.) Far less "please come over and help me remove this virus" and far, far less "please help me fix this corrupted Word document." Apple made it easy, but my dad asked me a while back for help installing Mint Linux on his laptop, so it is getting some love too.
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Mint versus 'buntu
FWIW, when I came to Linux, it was after spending decades with only MS or Apple type environments (except for a bit of time with RDOS). Then, with an upgrade at home, I had XP-SP2. I must be the only person in the world that hated XP. It wasn't stable, it kept asking the same questions over and over no matter how many times I checked the 'do not ask again' box, and it also was not great for networking.
I had no UNIX background, and Fedora 2 took some learning, but my life became so much easier within days of dumping XP. People commonly throw out the idea that Linux requires technical literacy, and maybe that was true back in the day. However, for the past decade, or especially now, you're going to need far more technical skill to manage a Windows PC than for Mint, Cinnamon, *buntu, whatever.
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I almost forgot!
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Re: I almost forgot!
It is really a personal preference...I love KDE, but Cinnamon grew on me quickly.
I get sick of people repeating the antiquated trope of Windows having an advantage when it comes to hardware drivers.
I tended to throw away the driver CDs, or they got mixed up and I often didn't know what driver went with what machine. Finding drivers online is great for some companies, but terrible for most (unless you trust windriver or some of the other websites that have drivers available.) And finding a driver for the current OS you are running may be hit or miss, especially if you are using older hardware (since the company would rather you buy new hardware than install old hardware in a new operating system (ahem...Intel...ahem.) Haven't had that issue with Linux at all.
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my last driver issue
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Re: Mint versus 'buntu
My standard distro choice is plain Debian, since it's rock solid and never gave me any serious problems on any machine I've used it on. I have used and enjoyed Mint as well, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.
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Re: Re: Mint versus 'buntu
Not only did I experience some problems with Ubuntu, I also found Debian's overall philosophy and commitment to the Open Software movement more appealing than a distro controlled by a for-profit company like Canonical.
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Re: Re: Mint versus 'buntu
Ditto. Haven't had issues in, quite literally, YEARS.
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Re: Re: Mint versus 'buntu
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Re: Re: Re: Mint versus 'buntu
It's actually XFCE.
http://www.xfce.org/
Runs great even on really old crappy hardware. I put it on a netbook that just barely sort of ran Win XP and it was fine.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Mint versus 'buntu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfce#History
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Re: Re: Re: Mint versus 'buntu
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Re: Re: Mint versus 'buntu
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Re: Re: 'good reviews'?!?!? Really!?!?!
To be clear, Mint is a distribution, and Cinnamon is a desktop environment built for Mint, and is also available for other distros.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon_%28software%29#Adoption
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Re: Re: 'good reviews'?!?!? Really!?!?!
I wasn't even aware that I was used to waiting a couple seconds for a program to load until I no longer needed to.
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Re: 'good reviews'?!?!? Really!?!?!
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Re: 'good reviews'?!?!? Really!?!?!
http://anandtech.com/show/9543/the-windows-10-review
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows -10/4896/windows-10-review
http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/28/9045331/microsoft-windows-10-review
http: //arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/review-windows-10-is-the-best-version-yet-once-the-bugs-get-fixed/
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/28/windows-10-review/
http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/pc-mac/soft ware/operating-systems/windows-10-1267364/review
http://www.cnet.com/products/microsoft-windows-10/
ht tp://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2488631,00.asp
http://www.wired.com/2015/07/windows-10-review/
http ://www.maximumpc.com/windows-10-review/#!
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Microsoft's Walled Garden
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Re: Microsoft's Walled Garden
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Re: Microsoft's Walled Garden
It's spyware, but not a walled garden. Compare Windows to AOL (back in the day) or iOS, and it's completely different.
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One more nail
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several have predicted this throughout. those now who complain need to understand this isn't the alps we are in, but the foothills.
this isn't going to end well, but it's going to be entertaining.
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Don't want to be associated with spying crapware? That's my guess from what has NOT been said. One can't pry any actual statements out of Techdirt. I'll just go on to assert that Techdirt sees that Microsoft will do "free" wrong... WAY wrong!
Has everyone heard that Microsoft actually intends to charge $1.49 a month or $9.99 a year for an advertising-free version of ancient Solitaire game? -- Yes, sounds right out of The Onion! -- But apparently (I say because it's incredible), it's not only true, but just part of scheme to charge subscription fees for EVERY little feature now in an ordinary OS bundle!
Given unprecedented wacky but certainly full scale plan of monetizing pieces of "free" softwarez by subscription and immense influence of Microsoft, why isn't this being either touted or hooted here? -- Oh, that one's easy: on one hand Techdirt likes Microsoft, and on other won't risk predicting, especially not when involves this notion of "free". Techdirt's boy-clowns will only cluck sagely and shake heads sadly AFTER this outright lunacy flops, as I predict. -- Even for me is really more of a hope, because if there's one thing I've learned, it's that you cannot under-estimate people who are using Microsoft products. I won't be too surprised if huge numbers actually do "subscribe".
After all, they (that means YOU) have been shelling out every couple years since at least 2000 for marginal improvements -- after several versions of inadequate single-tasking DOS. The invasive spying and arbitrary user interface changes have been steadily increased until nearly all just shrug and go along with it.
This "news" comes a teensy bit late if you read actual "tech" sites. I bet it's because Russia been "filling the internet with toxic disinformation".
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Why isn't Techdirt rejoicing and crowing now that Microsoft proves the value of "free" by giving away Windows 10?
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Re:
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Re:
Windows no longer has built-in solitaire? THE HORROR! The world as we know it will surely come grinding to a halt without this critical OS feature.
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Re: Re:
So, not only is his moronic drooling attacking a frivolous, optional feature with literally hundreds of free, non-ad supported alternatives available, he's years behind the complaint being something new. But, it coincided in his mind with a claim that Fictional Mike made about things being free, so somehow that makes privacy violation OK or something.
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Re:
Because it's not particularly new, innovative or notable, especially if the purpose is to invade customers' privacy with trojan horses and spyware. Even if the move wasn't infested with crap, they're still just following Apple's lead. It would have still been a point to congratulate had they not managed to screw it up, but here we are.
"just part of scheme to charge subscription fees for EVERY little feature now in an ordinary OS bundle! "
Are you ignorant of the fact that this isn't a new move on Microsoft's part, are you dumb enough to think that Solitaire is actually a vital part of the OS, are you stupid enough to believe that subscriptions are the only way companies can make money if they don't charge a premium up front, or a combination of all 3?
"After all, they (that means YOU) have been shelling out every couple years since at least 2000"
I damn well haven't - Vista convinced me to finally switch to Linux full time after dual booting for years, and I only used that because it came with the laptop. In fact, I believe that Windows 95 was the last copy I willingly paid for (98 came with a PC, then XP), and I'll bet that the majority of readers here had similar experienced and/or only use Windows because their employer requires a Windows-only application somewhere.
Yet again, you make unfounded assumptions and fool yourself into thinking you have a relevant point, when all you're doing is attacking figments of your own imagination.
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Re:
Because Microsoft isn't giving Windows 10 away for free. Microsoft has allowed those who already have Windows 7 or Windows 8 to upgrade* for free** to Windows 10***.
* Fresh installs of Windows 10 are "supported", but usually don't work to well unless you first upgrade to Windows 10, and then install a fresh version of Windows 10 over the top of the upgraded version (or use the Microsoft provided Windows 10 reset option that essentially does this for you.) Without doing this, the old Windows 7/Windows 8 key may not get "upgraded" and you'll find that your installation is not-activated and you have 3 days to buy Windows 10 before it gets kicked offline or will have to involve Microsoft in remotely upgrading your key for you.
** Only for retail versions of Windows 7, Windows 8, or Windows 8.1. Users with valid licensed copies of Windows XP, those with enterprise licenses (without software assurance,) or the many other caveats Microsoft has provided will need to pay to upgrade.
*** Most other operating systems provide free upgrades now, Microsoft is arriving at the end of the fad and claiming that they are all innovative and stuff.
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Response to: Anonymous Coward on Sep 2nd, 2015 @ 6:39am
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The meaning of 'free software'
Learn more here
http://www.fsf.org/
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Re:
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I'd already decided that Win8/10 are not coming near my systems, this just bumps moving away from W7 right up the priority list.
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Several BILLIONS of people WON'T bother "opting out" even IF can be done. You few geeks are irrelevant.
Those of us who in 2005 could look ahead ten years can only say "told ya so". And 2025 will be much worse. You'll have less privacy than a rat in a cage, not even your thoughts private. Enjoy your googlization.
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Re: Several BILLIONS of people WON'T bother "opting out" even IF can be done. You few geeks are irrelevant.
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Re: Several BILLIONS of people WON'T bother "opting out" even IF can be done. You few geeks are irrelevant.
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Re: Several BILLIONS of people WON'T bother
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Re: Re: Several BILLIONS of people WON'T bother
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sudo apt-get remove unity
sudo apt-get install cinnamon
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Re:
sudo aptitude purge unity
As that command will also remove dependencies, whereas apt-get does not.
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Re: Re:
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Re:
sudo apt-get remove unity
sudo apt-get install cinnamon
If you don't already have Ubuntu installed, is there an advantage to using Ubuntu with Cinnamon over Mint? I'm not looking for exhaustive feature lists or anything, just like "yes it has features Mint doesn't" or "yes it supports more hardware" or something like that. Or "no". ;-)
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
Did Microsoft write Windows 10 from scratch or is it based on a preexisting OS? ;)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Excellent, now to fork those! What should it be called, Breath Mint? Cinnamon Challenge?
Did Microsoft write Windows 10 from scratch or is it based on a preexisting OS? ;)
The latter, but I'm not sure if you're trying to say that's the same situation. It isn't, for various reasons.
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wusa /uninstall /kb:3068708 /norestart
wusa /uninstall /kb:3022345 /norestart
wusa /uninstall /kb:3075249 /norestart
wusa /uninstall /kb:3080149 /norestart
Note I've removed the /quiet from the commands as there's no way to know if the previous command finished to let you know to run the next one.
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Re: uninstall MS malware updates
wusa /uninstall /kb:3022345 /norestart
wusa /uninstall /kb:3075249 /norestart
wusa /uninstall /kb:3080149 /norestart
Now, you also have to set each of these malware updates to "hidden", so they won't try to re-install.
Set your update options to NOT automatically install, and then when these updates become listed, right-click on them & choose "hide".
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Re: Re: uninstall MS malware updates
Enjoy your new game of wack-a-mole.
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Re: by opening up an admin command prompt
NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...!!!!
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Meh.
I've resisted both upgrading it (I hate the Windows 8 GUI) as well as the inevitable switch to Linux for what feels like forever. A lot of the software I use simply wasn't available for Linux. I also, like a lot of others, felt Linux was too hard to master (i.e. troubleshoot).
I've noticed lately that this is starting to change though. Quite a few of the apps I use are finally starting to show up as Linux compatible counterparts that don't cost any extra and I don't game on my PC, so no loss there if I switched.
If this trend keeps up, we may actually see a monumental shift away from Microsoft Windows some day, which is fine by me. I can adapt if I have to and I think I'd rather force myself to learn a new OS than upgrade to Windows 8 or 10.
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does ms pay overtime for writing to these comments threads or is it just part of the job description?
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"You don't own it"
(It could even be argued that the long-winded and xenolexiconic contracts -- which are willfully written to discourage actually reading them -- are such that they cannot adequately be digested by a typical end user and therefore cannot be reasonably enforced.)
Also, if they were to charge for updates, then there would be an implied expectation that the initial product was perfect and free of bugs, and the bar before security exploits, non-functionality and interface problems were litigable would be much lower. As it is, the free updates and Microsoft's diligence with security updates elevates that bar.
Odious contracts without parity may be the norm right now in the tech industries (and extending to other appliances), but they're tolerated only due to (legal) necessity, not because this is, or has ever been acknowledged as an acceptable way of doing business, and it leads to Microsoft's customer base being driven to act out of necessity, or even desperation to counter Microsoft's encroachments on rights.
This is why countermeasures to the DRM of Microsoft Windows (e.g. Windows Loader) has been written by engineers, and not by black-hats. Businesses whose inconveniences by conforming to MS DRM policies are enumerated in profits lost are driven monetarily to circumvent them. Doing so may be illegal in the US, but it's not in Europe, and once the European patch comes to the US it's a common practice much like driving above the speed limit.
If the US had a functional justice system (which it does not, with countless examples to that effect) the situation of necessity would mean that any hacks to circumvent intrinsic malware and privacy breaches would be defensible and justified, much the way that the French resistance sought to disrupt German logistics during WWII, or hostages in a bank heist are justified to take action against their captors if they can succeed in doing so.
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Re: "You don't own it"
Upvoted just for that word.
Also, if they were to charge for updates, then there would be an implied expectation that the initial product was perfect and free of bugs
Where do you get that idea? There is no commercial software free of bugs*, and I don't think anyone paying for updates expects it to be perfect. I don't think you would get anywhere at all suing a company just for bugs unless you could prove gross negligence that caused harm.
* arguably none at all, but I read something about NASA's strategy for zero-defect software. The stuff with meters and inches was written by a contractor IIRC.
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Imperial vs. Metric in NASA
By free of bugs, I didn't mean perfectly bug free, rather that updates would be a rare thing, rather than the almost-every-tuesday update schedule that Windows has had since XP. So, fewer bugs by orders of magnitude than the present situation.
There was a similar situation with console games, as they changed from the play-from-CD format a la PS1 to the install-from-CD / play-from-HD format a la PS3. The old format required a longer playtesting run before a game went gold because bugs were forever, and bugs that could be exploited in-game would become part of that game's culture.
Now, they can release and patch later, and they do. Or as the case is sometimes, if the the game flops on the shelves, they just stop patching bugs, and the fans just suffer the buggy bits. Aliens: Colonial Marines comes to mind.
We've seen similar things with early smart-phones that didn't have easy update vectors (e.g. required a firmware update) in that a buggy interface would tank the reviews. Less so, now, given that bugs are fixed after release.
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Re: Imperial vs. Metric in NASA
I think more of a failure to convert error, but yeah. However I don't think that code was actually written by NASA.
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This is why businesses use enterprise linuxes like red hat. So you can have stable supported linux.
For personal use I recommend debian stable or ubuntu Long term support (LTS) if stability is an issue
"3. Hatred of commercial programs by too many coders."
By who? I hate proprietary software, that's not the same thing as commercial software
"4. Impossible to run Windows programs on a Linux box if you are not a super geek."
Click on wine in software center then click the .exe. so easy a caveman could do it
"This is important because most business users are not running a computer operating system but a program that does a specific application as such the operation operating system is chosen that will run the program."
Often these are linux programs anyway
"5. Hatred, literally hatred of the ides of allowing development of any application that has business applications by a very large number of geeks."
Linux got where it is today by businesses developing it, the fuck are you on about?
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Microsoft simply has no way of accurately knowing who has dumped Win10. They obviously see the install downloads needed to make the 17 million plus sound byte. They will be aware of rollbacks if you manage to do a clean rollback from 10. But if win10 breaks and you do a clean Win 7 install, how could they know that?
Win10 was broken on both of my personal laptops and roll back was not possible. Both are Win7 again (Clean factory installs of original OS) Would Microsoft know to debit me from the count somehow? It would be interesting to hear how that might happen.
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Well, when their digital spies stop phoning home to the mother ship, that should give MSFT/NSA *some* indication that the 'locals' have outed yet another nest of espionage and terminated them with extreme prejudice!
Makes me want to run a DVD w/Win10 on it through a woodchipper! But I use Ubuntu, have for years, and only use MSFT stuff at work because I have to... ;)
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With all the unavoidable inbuilt monitoring, which uses a machine key, they know when Win10 installations stop talking to the mother-ship. Given that the Internet is now ubiquitous, such drop outs are either machines dying, or win10 being dumped for something else.
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Or people firewalling off the Microsoft mothership. This is what I do. any machine connecting to my lan cannot talk to Microsoft servers.
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The Win box at home is air gapped for good reason
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No, I don't.
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Maybe I don't turn the machine on very often. Say twice a year at tax time. That would be rare though, I see your point.
Cheers!
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With the Home editions of windows 10, doing that could be painful, as it will insist on installing outstanding updates.
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But there are a lot of people that like Windows 10 and are comfortable that turning this stuff off mostly turns this stuff off and aren't worried about it.
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Alterning previous versions?
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If you want stability, stick with debian. There's distros that are more bleeding edge, and others with a focus on stability.
2. Too many distributions.
A bit of truth there, but stick to the major ones and you should not have problems.
3. Hatred of commercial programs by too many coders.
Commercial software is often hostile to the interests of the end user. This is the entire point of the Free Software Foundation, which actually supplied the GNU part of Linux. I for one tend to by quite leery of commercial software, and try to stick with open source as much as possible.
4. Impossible to run Windows programs on a Linux box if you are not a super geek. This is important because most business users are not running a computer operating system but a program that does a specific application as such the operation operating system is chosen that will run the program.
True. Microsoft is quite lodged in this area.
5. Hatred, literally hatred of the ides of allowing development of any application that has business applications by a very large number of geeks.
Thats more than a bit unfounded, but so broad its hard to respond to.
6. Apple's OS which is based on BSD has all the same fundamental issue that Linux has. Not enough users to make it worthwhile for anyone to develop complex business programs for. That is why critical business programs like accounting (to some degree) and CAD (to a high degree) do not run on either Apple or Linux only on Windows.
Actually, MAC OS is a pretty different beast because of its closed nature. But yeah, Windows has market share thats hard to overcome. That doesn't make it a better OS, it just means Bill Gates was a shrewd businessman.
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Bypasses the HOSTS file eh?
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Re: Bypasses the HOSTS file eh?
It's for your own good and you should trust us. We're the biggest thing on the planet and you're just one lowly user. Besides, the NSA and MafiAA have our balls in a vise so we have no choice but to give them what they want, and what they want is all of you. Better you than us. Have a marvy day.
Oh, I see you've moved your mouse so we're going to reboot now. Bye for now. You should be able to get back to where you were in about an hour from now. Don't forget to have that marvy day.
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Thanks for giving implied intent to be ridiculed, bad mouthed, and CLOSELY monitored, more so then not
Making your life easier by abusing others, just because you can, doesnt mean you should............
I give companies reasonable chances not to show me they are bad companies, you dont have to do much of anything to remain on the good graces list,
just STOP doing the things that put you on the unforgiving bad list
And then their are companies, that get it, show it, communicate it, and prove it........they go on the super duper goody goody i hope they dont sell out due to their low numbers, and thrives...........list
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who's gonna buy that jap crap, anyway? we think we know how to build a car, thank you very much.
hey, fellas, has is been long enough? how 'bout another run at fins?
general motors thought it couldn't be touched and thought no low opinion of its customers was quite low enough. when the change began, it was slow to start, but when it got momentum it couldn't be stopped. most people switched cars without knowing why they should. this won't be any different.
goodbye and good luck. but mostly goodbye.
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You are all right and wrong.
So take all the Farmers in the world, the salesmen, the grunt workers, and try to teach them linux. I can guarantee that you will pull out most of your hair as they ask the same question over and over and over for years. Now take this same group and put them in front of a windows operating system and guess what? You don't have to explain the simple things to them. They can install simple programs or games easily, they can do most things and only have to take their computers in once in awhile to have a bit of service done. Remember most people do not know a geek personally, they have to pay for our time to come out and fix these small problems then they call you a genius.
So for most of the readers here yes we could switch to linux, but for the general population, who have no access to us geeks on a daily basis, or can not afford to have us teach them linux for months and years (costs to much). What do you think that part of the population needs to do?
Also don't tell me anyone can learn linux. We know anyone can but its how long will it take them and how much will it cost them.
Yes users like us need to bring up these privacy issues, to get the majority of people to start squaking so these features get removed.
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Re: You are all right and wrong.
99% of what they want to do is done in firefox and you click the same icon to run that regardless of os
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Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
Show me how someone who has no access to a tech is going to install a linux distro when they do not know what a command prompt is.
I am a tech, this is what I do for a living, now get your head out of your ass and think about the regular people out there without someone like us in their lives. They will be lost in linux.
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Show me how someone who has no access to a tech is going to install a linux distro when they do not know what a command prompt is.
OK. The librarian at the school where I work. It was for her HUSBAND, both of whom are in their 60s. I gave them a thumb drive over a year ago, and haven't heard a peep since. And, yes, I KNOW they're still using it.
I am a tech, this is what I do for a living
Clearly you're not very good at it.
... now get your head out of your ass
You should heed your own advice.
... and think about the regular people out there without someone like us in their lives.
I have. REPEATEDLY. The librarian mentioned above is FAR from the only person I've gotten on Linux, and always with minimal assistance from me.
They will be lost in linux.
Just because YOU are lost in Linux doesn't mean that people that actually possess a brain will be.
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Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
Hi. :-) That's how I started out. Where do you think Linux geeks came from? Do you think we just spontaneously *poof* into existence?
If you can put a DVD in a DVD drive and reboot a computer, you can install Linux, and that's been true for quite a while now. The more times you do it, the better results you'll get. Stumble around the user interface and in the installed programs a bit and you'll see they're not all that different from those you already know. They just look a bit different.
The best part is, this stuff respects your wishes and isn't out to rob you because you're ignorant, or sell your PII to people you've never heard of. Updates and upgrades are free too so as long as your hardware keeps working, you may never need to install again.
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Next time read the post your replying to.
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What's that got to do with anything? I'm sure Grandma didn't install Windows herself either.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
Have you EVER installed Linux in the last 10 years? It is FAR, FAR, FAR easier than installing Windows.
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No offense, but you seem to be nudging the goalposts a bit here.
If someone is worried about the intrusiveness of Windows 10 enough to make the switch to Linux, they probably will be smart enough to do a little independent research themselves.
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Personally, I've installed three different versions of GNU/Linux on computers I own (Ubuntu, Mint, and Fedora) but I've never been able to install Windows. I did try; I removed my Linux installation, stuck in my Windows install CD, and did my best, but I failed. I've stayed with FOSS OSes ever since.
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And that is true of just about everyone I know who has made the jump, with or with out my encouragement.
So, let's you just say that it is you, as a tech, that is null and void, shall we?
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I wonder, though, is it just because of the coerced OTA "upgrade", or is it really easier to install from scratch?
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Yes.
It is FAR, FAR, FAR easier than installing Windows.
Have you ever installed Windows in the last 10 years? This is blatantly false.
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Linux installs are so easy, I do it. Windows requires more to install, doesn't have most common apps installed when you are done and then there is the drivers to install stuff.
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Yep. A VERY big part of what I do for a living is install Windows. In my personal life, I ONLY install Linux. So, yea, I am what you what call an expert on installing both OSs.
Linux is FAR easier to install than Windows.
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Many people forget this because they only use the pre-installed version that came with those drivers. Just another example of people blaming Linux for something that's actually universal. The only desktop OS that's guaranteed to have everything out of the box is OSX, and that's only because Apple make the hardware as well as the software.
On top of that, I like to remind people that most distros will install all the apps you need as well as the underlying OS. Even if installing Windows is easier for someone, it's still going to be more time consuming to be installing your apps individually. Then, you've usually got a huge number of updates to install afterwards, usually requiring several restarts, whereas Linux does this during the install process (at least with 7 and before, I stopped working extensively with desktops before 8 was released) I can be using LibreOffice or GIMP or browsing the web before a Windows user has installed the latest service packs.
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What makes you say that? I find the Gnome desktop to be more intuitive than Windows myself.
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These days, that is all that most home users need. If you get these friends on Linux and make sure they can find the browser, they're set, and you won't get calls.
But if they need anything beyond the very common programs, the odds are that the average user will get stuck. I have seen very few packages that are complete enough, specific enough, and clear enough in their instructions that I myself (a mid level tech) didn't find very challenging to install. Between not knowing what distro they have, to not knowing what folder a package was installed in (when another instruction tells them to edit a file in the install folder), or simply failing to provide a desktop or menu shortcut, there is a much higher chance of failure (having to call someone for help) than the average Windows install.
Most small business people will need assistance getting any business specific software installed, even basic accounting. Even though I think it is likely that their overall maintenance costs will be lower with Linux, the reality is that the majority of the self employed will attempt to work with tools that they can figure out themselves to a minimal level of functionality. It may be a pain, but until someone gets the effort of Canonical behind a build with a better result, Windows will continue to be more likely to achieve minimum function without an insurmountable obstacle.
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These days, that is all that most home users need. If you get these friends on Linux and make sure they can find the browser, they're set, and you won't get calls.
I've not met a single person who owns a computer for whom this statement is true, and that includes my 80-year old mother-in-law who I set up a computer for. As well as a browser, she needed a word processor, skype and email, and later some very simple image software so she could play with photos to make paintings from.
And even if they DO only need the browser... if they're running in a restricted account so they can't trash the system if they click on the wrong thing, how do they patch their browser?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
LibreOffice Write. AbiWord. Kword. Others ...
skype
Runs on Linux.
and email
Where to even begin? Here's one guy's list with 128 options
and later some very simple image software so she could play with photos to make paintings from.
GIMP. Inkscape. Sketch. Others ...
You obviously don't know much about Linux. And that's OK. But maybe you should just not speak about things you don't understand.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
You obviously don't know much about Linux. And that's OK. But maybe you should just not speak about things you don't understand.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150715/11374931651/judge-kozinski-theres-very-little- justice-our-so-called-justice-system.shtml#c917
"For me? I use Windows at home, Linux at work. I've tried installing Linux occasionally at home, but it just doesn't work for me. I know how to use and maintain a Windows system, but I only know how to use a Linux system, so for me Windows is actually the more secure route. YMMV."
Emphasis on the YMMV. I much prefer developing in Linux than Windows, but I'm sure as heck not going to be the guy administering the system. And if I'm not comfortable administering *my own* system, I'm not going to recommend it to anyone in my family. Except my cousin, who *is* comfortable in Linux (and is also a programmer).
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Web solutions were provided as well as off line ones You can accomplish ever single task you listed exclusively via web as was pointed out. In addition offline tools were also suggested. Options are goooood.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
Logic isn't your strong suit, is it?
And since you clearly agree with me that you don't know much about Linux, let's repeat this for emphasis:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
All of which are available on Linux, and on most desktop distros would take less effort to install than the Windows version would.
"if they're running in a restricted account so they can't trash the system if they click on the wrong thing, how do they patch their browser?"
Same way as you do in Windows or OSX - the system will ask for the root (admin) password if you try accessing something that requires permissions that your user account doesn't have. If you trust them so little that you won't even let them have the root password, you can set updates to install automatically, or set permissions so that the user can update the browser without affecting anything else.
Perhaps try educating yourself before criticising people who have actually used Linux for detailing their experiences.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
I completely agree that they are all available on Linux, and I accept the proposition that you would find them easier to install on Linux than on Windows.
Perhaps try educating yourself before criticising people who have actually used Linux for detailing their experiences.
Thank you for the judgement, everyone. I *use* Linux on a nearly daily basis, and am comfortable compiling from source to try third party libraries or tools. I have never had any success administering a Linux system, either at home or work, I find the apt-get system completely opaque (in that it is trivial to install something you know about, and impossible to discover what to install if you don't) and yum just marginally better.
If I were to spend the next five years (one year? two years?) using nothing but Linux cold-turkey style, I'm sure I'd pick up everything I need and never look back. So far, I'd rather use computers that just work (for me, and my family), and spend the extra time with my family, or doing things that I actually enjoy.
YMMV.
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Yes, how annoying is it every time you see a Windows computer and there is a balloon or popup from Java, Acrobat Reader or some other application and/or Windows saying it needs an update.
In modern Linux Distros it's so pleasant, there is one update icon. All it does is change when you have ANY updates available. So you click the icon, see the list of Linux System AND/OR Application updates (change checkboxes if you want) Click Install and enter your password when asked. That's it your operating system and all programs updates begin downloading and installing.
The Windows update system is so fragmented and annoying by comparison and so much more work to do many individual updates.
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The biggest joys of using Linux come from the refreshing change that the operation is user centric.
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Last time that happened to me, it was followed by upgrade failed, restoring previous state, followed by another long wait while it restored and rebooted and completed the restore. That was about a 7 years ago, and was the last time I let a machine running windows go online, and relied on Linux for all online activities, as it was dual booting Fedora at the time.
That machine is now running PCLinuxOS, and has been for about 5 years, and no significant issues as the updates have rolled in.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
Yet, your comments indicated that you didn't realise that common applications and security configuration / automation options were available.
Perhaps we're not understanding what you said, but nothing I'm reading jibes with the experiences of someone who's used a modern distro for any length of time.
"I find the apt-get system completely opaque"
Does that include GUI-based package managers such as Synaptic or the Ubuntu software manager interface? Because I have no problem typing in a program I'm looking for in either of those interfaces, and I certainly have no problem double clicking on the .deb package I just downloaded if it's not something listed there. If I have to drop to the shell for whatever reason, there's nothing particularly hard about typing "apt-get install " or "yum install ", and if you have to Google to download it or find out what the package is called, chances are that you needed to Google and download the .exe or .dmg on another system anyway.
What exactly are you using?
"I *use* Linux on a nearly daily basis, and am comfortable compiling from source to try third party libraries or tools"
"If I were to spend the next five years (one year? two years?) using nothing but Linux cold-turkey style, I'm sure I'd pick up everything I need and never look back"
Wait... so you use Linux daily, to the point where you compile from source (something very rarely required nowadays for normal desktop use), yet apt-get confuses you and you think you'd need years of exclusive usage to understand it? You'll excuse me if this doesn't sound right.
If you're purely talking from the perspective of someone who's trying to set it up themselves with no clue of what they're doing, well there's a learning curve no matter which system you try using.
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Re: You are all right and wrong.
Personally, I don't think the differences in the learning curves for a modern day Linux distro vs. the learning curve when upgrading a Windows version are all that far apart. Windows changes locations of everything between versions anyways. Linux has come quite a ways since you had to type everything at a terminal prompt. It's all GUI now. I rarely have to open a terminal anymore on my Debian box.
All the additional programs available in the repositories are an additional plus when dealing with inexperienced users. Would you rather Grandma went to one place and got that recipe organizer that installs and works without drama or would you rather Grandma searched the web and downloaded a virus-ridden installer from download.com?
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Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
We are talking about average people out there that are not your friends or family and do not know a person capable of teaching them linux.
So again I will say read my entire post before responding, it will keep you from sounding like an idiot, and we all know your not.
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The adoption rate of Linux has nothing to do with the ease of operation. It has much more to do with lock-in licensing between hardware manufacturers and Microsoft than anything else. If you have to pay the Microsoft tax on a new computer whether you want Windows or not, why not use the operating system you were forced to pay for?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
And this brings us back to why most use windows, its already installed. but most of you want everyone to uninsall windows and put on a linux distro, Do you not see the problem here? Most people can not do that. I know techs can and I know some of you do it for your customers, but for the average person with no tech or no $$$$ to pay you, how do they go about doing it?
This is the problem with linux,to many distro's for the average person to be able to figure out which one they should run. Most average people would not be able to install a distro of linux, or be able to afford a tech to do it.
This is why windows wins. How many computers out there come with Mint linux pre installed that you can buy at best-buy?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
In most cases, simply download the LiveCD, burn it to a disc, boot to the CD drive and then follow the on screen instructions. Not brain surgery anymore. Quite a few distros have Live CD's that will even start the install when you pop the CD in when running Windows.
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I've had to use LiveCD versions of Linux to fix Windows problems quite often (especially those wonderful infinite reboot problems Windows has when a registry item has gotten borked or infected). I boot up the LiveCD, access the Windows partition and edit the registry instead of the "recommended" solution of re-installing Windows from the original CD (which the user never bothered to actually burn in the first place) and losing everything the user has created or installed.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
Assuming we stick with the most listed Mint, which one do they download?
Cinnamon 32/64, Cinnamon no codecs 32/64, Cinnamon OEM 64, MATE 32/64, MATE no codecs 32/64, MATE OEM 64, KDE 32/64, Xfce 32/64
2. Burn it to a disc
Most people don't know how to do this. I would rate this as a medium problem. A USB stick image is probably easier and more universal.
3. Boot to the CD drive
Most users don't know how to go into the BIOS or how to change the boot to anything but the hard drive.
4. Follow the on screen instructions
The easiest part.
5. Devices don't work
You forgot this part. About 50% of the time, everything will work and even printers will already be there. Great.
But then you have hardware that doesn't work. And getting it to work involes arcane command line processes. And before you say it doesn't, even getting the fast NVidia drivers (the most common driver in the world) requires:
a. blacklisting Nouveau (requiring a textfile change)
b. updating grub2
c. rebooting
d. accepting lower graphics
e. installing the graphics driver
f. running nvidia-xconfig
g. rebooting (most people are not going to know to hit Alt+Ctrl+Print_Screen+K to restart X)
This as opposed to (in Windows XP/7/8):
a. go to nvidia.com
b. click download, run, next, next, next, finish
c. it asks you to reboot and you say yes
And in Windows 10:
a. it automatically does it for you
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
click "Add to Cart" Adjust quantity as desired and click checkout.
Or hire me. I managed to do it, but it was way easier than your instructions.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
And yes, the NVIDIA driver problems have always existed. But if you want to blame anyone for that, blame NVIDIA for being dicks and ignoring the Linux community for so long. Although those problems are being addressed and (hopefully) will be less of a pain in the future.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/09/nvidia-seeks-peace-with-linux-pledges-h elp-on-open-source-driver/
Ok. I'm bailing out of this discussion now. Bottom line, in my humble opinion, is that if you wish give up more and more of your privacy to Microsoft (because who knows what spyware the next update from Redmond will bring), because it might take a little bit of learning and patience to get going on Linux, have at it. I, on the the other hand, will opt to keep control of the hardware I purchase.
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Linux Mint website: "If you're not sure which one is right for you, "Cinnamon 64-bit edition" is the most popular."
I know this Linux stuff is so hard. ;)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
But since you bring it up. Microsoft knows people will choose something else that's why they do everything they can to prevent major manufacturers preinstalling Linux desktop systems and selling them at major retail outlets.
It's also why they keep moving the settings for UEFI in Windows making it difficult to boot or install Linux they fear a product comparison.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
Look at that, you can! For example:
http://www.amazon.com/CybertronPC-Axis-LyNX1-DT3204B-Desktop/dp/B00R33ZR9Q
http://www.amazon. com/Acer-Veriton-DT-VKWAA-002-Desktop-Black/dp/B00QL57TTI
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
http://www.amazon.com/MintBox-IPC-D2x2-C3337NL-H500-WB-XLM-FM4U-BMint-2-Desktop/dp/B00EONR674/ref=sr _1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441219346&sr=8-1&keywords=mintbox
Oh but you where pushing an agenda that this link puts a small hole in.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You are all right and wrong.
I don't know what you're talking about or if you replied to the wrong person since I don't remember mentioning a computer with Mint preinstalled. I had no agenda, you mentioned that it's possible to buy Linux computers on Amazon. I didn't know that, so I went to check it out and posted some links in case anyone else was curious too. That's all.
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Some of us have been listening to screeds like yours for over two decades and we're getting a little impatient that you still haven't bothered to clue in. It's getting pretty tiring from repetition. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Maybe we can't save you, but I'll bet you can if you try.
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Re: You are all right and wrong.
How much does it cost them to get Windows re-installed due to a virus infection?
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They are not all computer illiterate as you claim.
Perhaps you are illiterate wrt other's capabilities
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What some call overblown, others might call not enough.....by far
Im glad to hear SOMEONES making some sort of stance, but if not enough, then this will become more frequent and even more obtrusive
Has anyone thought, that, information about our persons in one sitution , given without explicit consent, would require another organisation to SUPPOSEDLY require a warrent........what does that mean LAWFULLY, if information about our persons however gathered is then "legally" required to be shared, upon punishment through what ever means i.e. financially, regulatory, "permissions" (to operate/build) etc etc
The digital age equivelent to the redcoats presuming the power to search without warrent, the americas, that lead to a revolution
This digital spying is akin to coporate/government coming up to you, searching and cataloguing you, NOT because your a criminal, but, just because
Seing the road were taking and having no choices to avoid it, is infuriating
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Re:
Wrong, plenty of choice. Check over at distrowatch.com looking at the popular on the right side, try one near the top.
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I will be trying Linux soon
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alternate os
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Ok, I'll block the DNS and IPs at my router.
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Re:
You don't consider that an unnecessary imposition? You don't mind them sneakily avoiding your wanting to control your property?
On the other hand, there's other alternatives available which don't do that sort of thing, but it's up to you; your box.
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Even better to have links to how to disable these intrusions upon our privacy.
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Linux is Easy as Pi
Linux is simpler to use, and simpler to install. I don't use the shell (command line) on my desktop, only on servers. Everything just works and Windows is as it always has been the OS that regularly needs support.
I don't find Linux difficult at all. I was in the IT field and switched to Linux because it's obviously the future. Life has just been so easy with Linux that I have become lazy and don't want to deal with all the nonsense Windows support requires.
The Distro I prefer to use is Linux Mint.
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Re:
Just out of curiosity, do you have some sort of vested interest (like your paycheck perhaps?) in keeping Windows as most used OS?
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Out of curiosity, are you usually this paranoid, or just when the utility of your pet OS is questioned.
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Have you actually verified these statements or are you just dismissing Linux out of hand?
I know it's hard to believe that computers are used for other things that what you personally use them for, but it is a thing that happens.
Nice dismissive statement there, irrelevant to our discussion, but nice.
Linux isn't ready for primetime....
In your opinion, not mine. You haven't put forth any viable enough arguments to really change that.
...for musicians. It just isn't.
Wait. When did we limit our discussion to musicians? I missed that part.
Out of curiosity, are you usually this paranoid, or just when the utility of your pet OS is questioned.
Paranoid? No. Concerned about the slow erosion of privacy and security in this day and age. Yes. Very much so. Just as I've always been.
One of the first computers I've owned came with PC DOS 1.1. I've watched Microsoft their entire lifespan. I simply do not trust them anymore. Linux gives me an alternative. It's that simple.
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You can't run VSTs in Linux. This isn't something I'm making up. ProTools? Nah... that doesn't work either. ProTools hardware? No drivers. Ableton Live? Nope. There's a bodged driver for Novation Launchpads, but if Ableton won't run it's not much use, is it? The absolute best latency I've ever gotten out of the hacked together Focusrite Interface drivers is 16ms. To put that in perspective, you hear flamming at a bit over 5ms, so it's unusable.
Again, good for you for having brand loyalty... me, I just want to get shit done with a bare minimum of fucking around. Y'all can rationalize about Linux from here 'til October, but the fact remains that once you step beyond run-of-the mill office productivity and coding tasks on Linux, it shits the bed.
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Wow. Just having a discussion here. No need to be an asshole. Have a nice life.
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A thousand times this. I would dump windows in a heartbeat if my audio hardware would work on linux.
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I have a real world example for you. I've a friend who's a home attendant care aid. They just got a terse memo that their time cards could NOT be submitted via a smart phone. They have to fax, email, or submit in person, and if they email it has to be from a PC. Why? The agency got threatened with a HIPPA violation because the employees have to identify their patient(s) served on their time cards, and too many smart phone apps require access to email and contact list. The agency doesn't have the time or money to figure out a VPN setup for smartphones, assuming the employees' phones could handle it. Even if they did, would this 'reporting' still occur with VPN data?
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Saying there are too many choices of Linux distros is like saying that there are too many choices of cars., which car you get depends on what you want out of a car, similar which distro you get depends on what you want out of an operating system. However unlike cars, it costs nothing to try out different distros except for a bit of time for a test drive.
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Operating system
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Re: Operating system
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Re: Operating system
Be it options, number of programmers, man hours, lines of code, features, update/release intervals. By nearly any conceivable metric Linux development far outpaces that of Windows.
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It's time for me to make a Linux partition.
Maybe with this alignment of the Microsoft stars so that the elder gods can awake will change this, and motivate device devs to make proper AMD / ATI drivers.
I've already weaned myself pretty much from MS office, though I rely on some sweet plaintext editors for much of my work, and the Android selection for those is wanting.
But yeah, in the next couple of years, I may need to decide to cease using Windows altogether now that Microsoft has become hostile to end-users. And I've been wanting to get more Linux savvy anyway.
So, Linux Mint, huh?
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Re: It's time for me to make a Linux partition.
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Re: It's time for me to make a Linux partition.
I should mention that I have no technology training but had a resource for Windows questions, though every time I asked a why question he would point at a book on Assembly Language and tell me all my questions would be answered there. I never read it.
I learned what I know of Linux via the do it, try it, fix it methodology, and a lot of reading very thick books that made little sense to me. Today it is easier, as the answers to most of my questions are available online and those pesky command line thingy's can be copied and pasted into the shell.
Then again, I like puzzles and figuring things out, not everybody does. I am currently running Raspbian on a Rasbperry Pi, and it is far from satisfactory for all uses.
My next computer will be a Linux based notebook from the get go, though I will switch out whatever is installed for pure Debian (as John Fenderson suggested above) and see how that works for the uses I can think up. If not, I can always go back to Xubuntu.
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Thanks guys.
I know of a local LUG to get questions answered, and yeah, if I can get my productivity on in Linux then I'll just made that a dedicated system and worry about getting games going later. The winehq link helps.
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These privacy-invading features are unacceptable to me as a Windows developer. Within the last year they've supposedly gone back to their roots and focused on developer tools and the developer experience, but there won't be any users to develop for if MS drives them all away with bullshit like this.
If I wanted to work for an evil platform, I'd be writing iOS apps instead.
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Re:
Not true. The BSDs are still out there and are arguably better in some situations. In fact, you can run Gnu userland with a BSD kernel. Debian Linux even offers that option.
I watched a talk given by an OpenBSD developer demonstrating two tiny Sokris boxes running pf firewalls. He hit the power on one of them, it failed over to the other seamlessly and not a packet was dropped while the other came back to life. Slick!
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If it's a BSD kernel, it isn't Linux, is it? Or do you mean Debian Linux as an organization?
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Yup. I've never tried it and can't verify it's there yet, but wiki.debian.org has a page on it (last time I looked).
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RE: What Windows is based upon
Kernels are hard to write, and it's what makes or breaks the OS as a whole. It's where all the deep voodoo is. Any child with a compiler can build GUI apps, but building the guts of an operation system takes real mojo, and most people are posers.
So we all cling to a small handful of operating systems. And that's why the secret, baked-in ingredient in some of them is evil: lack of choice. Just like we see in other areas of IT.
Linux is getting there, but it's still not something my mom can run. It still has the attitude of "real men use command lines." And my mom will never, ever use a compiler, even if you give her a batch file to double click on.
I'm pulling for Linux, though. I have a Raspberry Pi running the KDE desktop and it looks like Windows 7 on a 35 dollar, quad core computer. Linux still has a long way to go, though. It has to be mainstream before we will ever see an end to these type of privacy shenanigans. And to be mainstream, people like my elderly mom need to be able to function with it.
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Re: RE: What Windows is based upon
Seriously there has been and continues to be massive progress in ease of use with many Linux distros. What I have used on the Raspberry Pi have been lightened a lot for the hardware. They are functional but not as user friendly.
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Re: RE: What Windows is based upon
So my suggestion, buy your kids or yourself a Steam Machine. Linux isn't the best kernel but it works as well as MS, though I'd still vote for BSD as the best right now.
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Side questions...
~ Has anyone yet developed (or is working on) an engine that sends Big MS a bunch of false data properly formatted to help keep their big eyes entertained?
~ Would running such a program be illegal, unethical or a litigable offense?
Because I'm really rather annoyed with Microsoft and that they've become mean-spirited and disregard the rights of their end-users.
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Re: Side questions...
Lip, Sep 2nd, 2015 @ 7:04am
According to https://thehackernews.com/2015/08/windows-spying-on-you.html, you can uninstall the tracking updates in Windows 7 and 8.1 by opening up an admin command prompt and entering in the following one at a time:
wusa /uninstall /kb:3068708 /norestart
wusa /uninstall /kb:3022345 /norestart
wusa /uninstall /kb:3075249 /norestart
wusa /uninstall /kb:3080149 /norestart
Note I've removed the /quiet from the commands as there's no way to know if the previous command finished to let you know to run the next one.
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For 2, I didn't even bother to look at what's sent to MS, just described how to look.
For 3, I can't see how sending junk data would be illegal, but hell I'm just a hack like the rest of them. LOIC is pretty much just sending a shit load of junk data that easily dropped but considered illegal, so IANAL.
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Re: Re: Side questions...
Won't these trackers simply be updated/replaced by the next Vista or 8.1 upgrade??
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Google doesn't want to introduce permission controls which would allow end-users to block apps from accessing this information because it interferes with Google's advertising business model.
So yeah, Android is just as bad as Microsoft Windows. I hate to say it but Apple had more access controls than Android does.
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Re:
3rd party apps have to ask for that permission before they can be installed (unless you're sideloading and then it's presumed you know what you're doing).
Google doesn't want to introduce permission controls which would allow end-users to block apps from accessing this information because it interferes with Google's advertising business model.
I think they're working on that for a future release. Not sure if it's 6 or not.
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The need to install Linux is not a problem created by Linux
There is no way around this problem, other than installing Linux post purchase, until hardware Manufacturers make hardware available with Linux pre installed, as is the case with Windows.
Until then anyone serious about using an OS other than Windows has three choices.
1. Buy a Mac
2. Install Linux post purchase to replace Windows
3. Locate a boutique hardware vendor that builds Hardware with Linux pre installed. There are quite a few of these, and all it takes is an internet search. Build quality is usually very good, and the hardware is guaranteed to work well with Linux.
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Re: The need to install Linux is not a problem created by Linux
A few of them do this, for example Dell offer a laptop targeted at developers with Linux pre-installed. However, the choice is limited and it's not a mainstream enough product for them to sell huge quantities of units.
Which is, of course, the problem - it's a kind of catch 22 situation. Linux won't be a standard option on most machines until they shift lots of units, and they won't shift those units until a Linux purchaser has the same choice as a Windows machine. Most people will still hold their nose and buy the Windows model and install Linux over it. So, lots of people are buying Windows machines with no intention of running Windows, but the sales figures make it look like they are, so their actual needs aren't catered to.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, a few hardware vendors tried offering Linux (or machines with no OS installed) as standard at one point, but stopped when Microsoft had a tantrum and threatened to remove bulk discounts from those OEMs.
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Re: Re: Re: The need to install Linux is not a problem created by Linux
For that vendor yes. The downside is they'll lose all Windows sales to their competitor across the street who's getting the Windows discount. When most of your sales are for Windows, that's going to hurt your bottom line a lot.
It'd be smarter for that vendor to sell bare machines to Linux users, not paying the "Windows tax." MS won't allow that either. How about a refund for the Windows that a Linux user won't use? Nope.
I just buy second hand and wipe Windows installing Linux. It's very satisfying to answer that, "Are you sure you want to delete this partition?"
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Thanks for the post...
:)
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Really Techdirt? You should be better than this
The Customer Experience Improvement Program has been around a long time (Since WinXP, if memory serves). It's not some evil privacy invading spyware, it's there to capture telemetry about Windows which gets sent back to MS so they can improve the product. Things like details about when and why an application crashed, or a driver that fails, or what percentage of users actually access specific features of windows, etc. It's not sending back your address book, or your email from Aunt Sue, or (heaven forbid!) your browser history.
These patches are just adding that telemetry monitoring to bits of windows that couldn't be monitored before. Lots of things have been added or changed in Win7 since it came out, and MS has certainly come up with new ways to analyze CEIP data in the interim. If a few additional data points about how my OS is performing will help them to develop a patch that makes things respond faster for me in the future, I'm all for it.
More importantly, while I'm all for it, you don't have to. CEIP is optional. You don't have to participate. Windows ASKS whether you want to participate, and you have to say yes or no. If you choose not to participate, this isn't an issue*.
On top of that, these aren't mandatory patches for win7/8. (Windows 7 and 8 don't even have mandatory patching like win10 does...) They aren't listed as critical updates, but rather as Recommended or Optional updates. If you don't want your system to get the update to collect these additional telemetry points, simply don't install the patches. Even when automatic updates are enabled, updates classified as "Recommended" aren't installed automatically unless you check the box to install Recommended updates along with the critical updates. Updates classified as "Optional" don't even get lumped in then, they will only be installed if you explicitly check the box for that update and click install.
Seriously, this is a non-issue, made into a big deal by people who can't be bothered to read the descriptions of these updates. I'm disappointed that Techdirt apparently falls into that category as well.
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* Yes, I know that there have been reports of Windows 10 still sending back a minimal amount of "probably harmless" data to Microsoft even with all settings configured for privacy. The data in that case wasn't the same kind of thing that these updates apply to, and I've seen no indication that these updates cause Windows 7/8.1 to send additional data to MS when CEIP is disabled.
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Re: Really Techdirt? You should be better than this
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It sounds like you weren't around for the first exciting episode.
Specifically everyone had a good read of the Windows 10 terms of service, which outlined a few important tidbits.
~ Yes, Win10 will be gathering data and sending it off to MS.
~ That data would include directory trees, keytracking, surfing habits, shopping habits etc. etc. etc.
~ Yes, they are going to share all of it with whatever commercial affiliates they wanted.
~ Yes, they are going to share all of it with whatever governments they wanted.
~ If they see something suspicious, you betcha they're going to send it to the police.
~ If they think you're pirating, you betcha they're going to sue you all the way to Mars.
~ If you design anything, create anything, manage your business books, write anything or whatever, and MS wants a copy for any reason, they get it. Even if it means you're breaking confidence agreements, NDSes, violating security clearance, or MS gets to patent your design before you do.
Essentially, Microsoft's TOS pretty much says they reserve the right to screw the end user any way that an MS tech might want. Even if for the lulz.
Even if this was written to only be used good faith as a protective legal stopgap, it means that ultimately it will be abused, and that Microsoft is, to us end-users, a hostile entity now.
So, no, we have every reason to make sure they don't get one bit of data from us, even that sent in good faith.
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Re: Really Techdirt? You should be better than this
Have you actually counted the number of updates you receive? Have you actually READ those descriptions? Most of them just say: "Security Update for -foo-", and very little else.
Have you diffed the registry after these updates? Have you ever turned off something that was a known security problem, and then checked if one of these "Security Updates" turned those security holes BACK ON?
Those descriptions your talking about, aren't accurate, or detailed. So how can there be informed consent? Further, many of the "updates" are actually installations of new features, and have nothing whatsoever to do with security or stability.
You can't do fleet management style administration on systems that are integral to peoples civil rights, and expect that YOUR policy is the RIGHT policy. This stuff effects trade, and speech, and those rights are reserved to the people, not the sovereign state of Microsoft.
And Yes, the auto update system, DOES override administrative decisions made by local administrators. Those changes effect speech, trade, and information security, and not always in a good way.
Really you could just take a street survey. Ask people: "has Microsoft ever installed software on your computer that you didn't want, unexpectedly, and/or without your consent?"
The number of "yes" answers to that question would more than tell the tail.
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MS's new Self Spying Computer System - the Sellfee.
Micrsloth knows that it will take months, maybe years before anything will be legally accomplished to stop them from stealing everything that's not nailed down from all its users, and of course, when that day comes, they will graciously stop all the spying, with that particular system - which will likely not still be in popular use by then, having been replaced by Win11, Win12, and Windows14, all of which use similar methods to steal everything a user does.
In the meantime, they can assist the Federal Spy Agencies, at so many millions of tax payer's dollars per terra-byte of user data, and both they and the NSA will be happy campers.
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Control over an OS is Power over the Users
This is the perfect illustration of why enterprises use Linux/Unix solutions over Windows.
With Windows the control is shared with Microsoft. With any Free as in Libre OS the full control is always available to the local Administrators.
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Re: Control over an OS is Power over the Users
We Free/Libre Opensource Software freaks wondered why proprietary software was going this way when they were folding DRM (originally Trusted Platform Management) into their products assuming it was just vendor lock-in trying to sew up their customer base (ie. market based coercion). Now, in hindsight, it's easy to see they likely had no choice in the matter. The MafiAA was buying up our legislators, fouling the justice system, and hijacking the market, and they either complied or they'd get sued into oblivion for refusing.
Now we see what they're left to flog. Windows-NSA, iBaubles-Walled Garden-NSA, or (so far legal) FLOSS.
"Your papers comrade!" But I was just going to the corner store to buy milk?!?
Enjoy the nightmare. Buy popcorn, while you can. Seig heil.
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Re: Re: Control over an OS is Power over the Users
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_real_enemy_is_within_20150906
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Re: Re: Re: Control over an OS is Power over the Users
I'm not a member of "the left", and why would anyone want to be? Left vs. right hasn't had any real meaning since ca. 18th century.
I hate tyranny. I'm not sympathetic to "the left" or "the right" or "progressive" vs. "conservative" politics. I am an individualist and wish everyone else wanted to be so too.
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Just had to quote you so it could be repeated.
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DIGITAL RIGHTS JUSTICE VS RANKING DIGITAL RIGHTS
Above and beyond the ranking of ICT sector companies with regard to their ICT commissions and/ or omissions (with the hope of their future embarrassment!... and that should include-- for me, and primarily!-- the commissions and/ or omissions surrounding FOSS and FOSH!... i.e., Free and Open Source Software, and Free and Open Source Hardware violations!) initiated by Rebecca MacKinnon, of the Ranking Digital Rights Project, is the need to hold these (and more) to account through criminal and/ or civil measures (in "REAL TIME"!), for their immediate criminal and/ or civil ICT injustices! And yes, the commissions and/ or omissions against FOSS and FOSH, are deserving of both criminal and civil measures!... albeit, in a "CONSCIONABLE WORLD"! But, even effecting "MY" preferred ICT accountability over simple ranking, neglects the millions of lesser websites throughout cyberspace (whether business, NGO+ NPO, or bureaucratic... and whether run by groups, or by individuals), wherein, Digital Rights commissions and/ or omissions (directly and/ or indirectly evidenced) are (and will be) equally guilty of immediate/ ACTIVE criminal and/ or civil injustices (and which includes, and will include, the ICT "things"/ devices that will compose/ comprise the pending ubiquitous "INTERNET- OF- THINGS"!... and the which, victims will have little time, and resource, to remedy!)! And, for which, "REAL TIME" accountability (criminal, civil, and technical measures), is ESSENTIAL (i.e., by way of both "REAL TIME" reporting, assessment, and intervention!... although, and in the case of the commissions and/ or omissions surrounding FOSS and FOSH Digital... and Human... Rights injustices, a more fundamental, and all- encompassing approach, is required!... inasmuch, as the scope and scale of the injustices, warrants a unique global remedy!)!
So... how does one effect "REAL TIME" reporting-- to start-- of immediate/ ACTIVE ICT commissions and/ or omissions (directly, and/ or indirectly evidenced)? And then, once reported, and confirmed, how can a victim receive "REAL TIME" ACTION re a confirmed immediate breach, of one's Digital (and Human) Rights (whether an Internet breach, and/ or, one involving some thing/ device associated with the pending "IoT")?
Simply, what we need is a GLOBAL, POLITICALLY MANDATED, and AI-based, Digital Rights menu option (in the form of a globally recognized "Digital Rights Icon") within every Proprietary and Non- proprietary Operating System (AND EMBEDDED WITHIN ICT FIRMWARE/ MICROCODE)... OPERATING IN "REAL TIME"... AND OVERSEEN BY THE "FREE AND OPEN SOURCE DIGITAL RIGHTS GOVERNANCES, AND THE FOS ICT COMMUNITIES (the latter, not to be confused with the 'Open Source community'... see, Why Open Source Misses The Point)"!... that will facilitate "REAL TIME" victim report gathering, assessment, and intervention, on behalf of any internet user, and/ or user of an internet linked thing/ device, who believes that a Digital (and Human) Rights breach, is in play! And afterupon "REAL TIME" confirmation of the reported breach, or breaches, a "REAL TIME" remedy, or remedies (whether criminal, civil, or technical... or a combination of these), will then be invoked!
And so... if a main internet player (e.g., a corporation, a main designer of an ICT thing/ device, governance, or NGO+ NPO advocacy), or a lesser website, has been confirmed breaching a Digital (and Human) Right, such a player, or website, could receive IMMEDIATE ACTION concerning the confirmed breach... through a global network of ICT report gathering, assessment, and intervention... and, which could involve a remote "REAL TIME" "INTERRUPTION" of the player's, or website's, confirmed Digital (and Human) Rights injustices (and just like the disputed remote actions of those applying "Digital Rights Management"/ DRM... for now!... to hapless internet users/ victims!... and-- of course-- DRM, not to be confused with "Digital Rights"!... see, "Digital Rights", under Wikipedia!)! Think of it as a kind of "Digital Rights 911" for netizens, and mandated "Digital Airbag" for all "Cybercars"!
But, just as exciting as these measures are in addressing immediate/ ACTIVE commissions and/ or omissions (directly, and/ or indirectly evidenced) of Digital (and Human) Rights by main ICT players, and lesser websites, is a new direction concerning the future course of current FOSS and FOSH technical developments!... the which, I have recently communicated to various key developers, in these areas!
It has recently donned on me, that an even more important state- of- the- art Digital Rights supporting benchmark for personal computers... beyond FOSS and FOSH!... is FOSS and FOSH, written in a Non- proprietary Computer Programming Language!
A five- time winner of local, national and international technology awards, the Oregon Helps website provides a screening tool in several different languages for 28 programs in the areas of food and nutrition, health care, housing, children, and family resources, financial benefits, and veteran’s services. By answering a few questions at the beginning of the screening tool, the website directs individuals to more specific questions... depending on age, disability, household composition, and county of residence. The product of an extensive collaboration between several government agencies, non- profit organizations, and a private consultant, Oregon Helps keeps tool maintenance costs under $10,000 per year by, UTILIZING NON- PROPRIETARY COMPUTER PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES (see, Improving Access To Benefits For Low- Income Families... Google cache!).
Eureka!-- I thought-- we can improve on FOSS and FOSH, by extending the two notions of FOSS and FOSH, to the LANGUAGES used to create FOSS programs, and FOSH firmware!
And so.... given the problems inhere in the use of Proprietary Programming Languages (see-- e.g.-- http://bytes.com/topic/c-sharp/answers/249140-c-proprietary-programming-language... see ᵃ)... let alone, the problems inhere with the "Closedware Apps, Systemware, and Firmware" these languages create!... it is vital that we now begin moving beyond merely FOSS and FOSH!... to FOSS and FOSH written in a FOS Programming Language! And so... I do herein offer up the terms, FOSP FOSS, and FOSP FOSH!... for Free and Open Source Programmed FOSS, and Free and Open Source Programmed FOSH! And the distinction being, that a FOSS program, and FOSH firmware can be prepared in either a Proprietary or Non- proprietary Programming Language, whereas a FOSP FOSS program, and FOSP FOSH firmware, necessitates the use of a Free and Open Source Programming Language!... so that any substantive, or perceived subversive Proprietary control by way of the Closedware Proprietary Programming Language the FOSS program, or FOSH firmware was written in, is eliminated!
Now... this is not to suggest that FOS programming languages haven't been used to fashion Closedware programs, or firmware (although... at present!... I can't think of any!)... nevertheless, there is less recourse (leverage... moral, or otherwise!) that Proprietary Programming Language users have, if the Closedware program, or firmware, is designed through the use of a CPPL! And so, not only is the program's or firmware's source code "out of bounds" to closedware users (if programmed using a Closedware- based PPL!), the very Programming Language that the Closedware program or firmware was written in, may also be "out of bounds"! And it's unclear to me... at this point!... whether the FSF-- at least-- is aware of this dilemma!
THIS... THEN... PROVIDES PURISM, WITH A WHOLE NEW DESIGN STRATEGY FOR FUTURE PURISM LAPTOPS (IN ADDITION, TO THE NOVENA, AND THE GLUGLUG DESIGNS)!... AND, AN ENTIRELY NEW CROWDSUPPLY CAMPAIGN!-- AT LEAST! AND ONE, I'M CERTAIN, MOST FOSS AND FOSH SUPPORTERS, WILL WANT TO BACK!
Lastly, in addition to the inherent robust Digital Rights support that FOSS and FOSH represent, several initiatives have already been in the works... for years!... which have been providing-- and are providing!-- this ESSENTIAL ICT SECURITY to millions of the world's poorest netizens (and e.g., through efforts of such groups as the "Free Geek movement"!)!... not to mention, the provision of FREE WIFI, by way of groups such as the Media Development Investment Fund!
So... and simply said... thanks!... "Security Gatekeepers!"... but!... NO THANKS! Your technomae doesn't cut it!... on the security front-- at least!... and, inasmuch, as better technoma currently exists to get the job done!... and!... gratis!... and, for everyone!... equally!
And on a Wiki theme, I note with interest-- and extreme prejudice-- the absence within (a) Wikipedia's "List of Programming Languages" (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages); (b) Wikipedia's "List of Programming Languages by Type" (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages_by_type); and (c) Wikipedia's "Comparison of programming languages" (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages) of a distinction/ demarcation between CPPLs, and FOS PPLs. And so, given what I've just relayed concerning FOSP FOSS and FOSP FOSH, it's essential that Wikipedia be "encouraged" to provide this added designation/ elaboration, so that the whole of the collective Free and Open Source community, can-- soon-- begin to focus on these FOS PPLs, in the creation of a new generation, of FOSS programs, and FOSH firmware! And thanx!
ᵃ http://opensource.com/business/15/9/free-software-foundation-30-years#comment-83746.
Please!... no emails!... or email publication!
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Re:
Obviously, you've managed to ignore all the many articles lambasting it for its abusive qualities. Go read some of them and learn about what it's doing in the background with your data and Personally Identifying Information, selling you out to all its business partners, and spying on your every action as if you're just another criminal who's yet to be caught, or a mark to be fleeced.
I'm grateful every day that I made the jump to FLOSS twenty-two years ago! I don't need to worry about *my* machine and *my* software spying on me. It works for me, not some shady unknowable perverts down the wire from me!
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When the cook is a spy, his delicious lemon tarts are a secondary consideration
But that's not the problem with Windows 10. The problem with Windows 10 is that it is the very definition of malware, an engine of betrayal to its end user in the interests of Microsoft.
And Microsoft has pretty much announced in their TOS and EULAs that they're to watch everything they do and use all that data against you whenever they feel like it.
It makes me wonder if botnets could try propagating by attaching themselves to swanky operating systems.
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