No Library For You: French Authorities Threatening To Close An App That Lets People Share Physical Books
from the this-is-crazy dept
EFF's Parker Higgins recently tweeted a question detailing the truly messed up state of copyright law. What do you think would happen if someone invented the public library today?Can you even imagine trying to invent public libraries in 2015?
— Parker Higgins (@xor) August 21, 2015
![](https://i.imgur.com/FVuxVrnm.jpg)
Except... not so neat, according to French authorities who are claiming the whole thing could be illegal:
Again, unlike Uber or Airbnb -- which are much more accurately described as the "on demand" economy, rather than the "sharing" economy -- Booxup really is about sharing. The book borrowing is done for free, not for a fee. The 1709 Blog, which surfaced this story, goes through a variety of possible French laws and can't find any that are truly applicable here. According to one of the reports that first discussed the story, the problem here isn't that Booxup is doing this for profit, but rather the opposite: that it's doing this for free. Suddenly, the fear is that this is a form of "piracy" because, you know, how can you compete with free (yes, of course, to say that seriously you'd have to erase from your mind centuries of public libraries co-existing with book stores, but shhhhh!).But an agent of the Direction Générale de la Concurrence, de la Consommation et de la Répression des Fraudes (DGCCRF), the French consumer protection agency, recently visited the Booxup offices, apparently after a person working in the book industry, whose identity is unknown, contacted the DGCCRF to express concerns over this business model. Indeed, Booxup uses a sharing economy model, where users offer their property or services to others, either for a fee, like Airbnb, or Uber, or for free, such as Booxup.Uber suspended its services in France in July after its services were found to be illegal by the French government, and the DGCCRF agent who visited Booxup had been in charge of the Uber case. Could such a fate await Booxup? It may depend on how its business model fits within French intellectual property law.
What is it about people today that makes them freak out about "free"? Of course, in France (as in much of Europe) the book market is bizarrely heavily regulated with full-on price-setting. Booksellers are forced to sell books at pre-set prices and there can be no competition in pricing -- which is why Amazon got in trouble for offering free shipping on books in France. Apparently that was deemed "discounting" books. It sounds like this investigation may be under the same kind of law, and the idea that "lending" books for free somehow undermines the market for books by offering a discount. Again, in order to make this argument seriously you have to ignore public libraries.
It's unclear if Booxup will be allowed to exist, but just the fact that an investigation is occurring shows the kind of backwards, anti-competitive, anti-innovation thinking of too many bureaucrats these days. And it also highlights why you don't see too many disruptive startups coming out of France...
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Filed Under: apps, copyright, france, intellectual property, libraries, moral rights, sharing books
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"... as clearly listed on page 34 of your book's purchase agreement..."
Should this be the case, I'm sure the license agreement that apparently every book owner in France signed... at some point... without knowing it... will be quite the interesting read.
Semi-related, with regards to the 'Can you even imagine trying to invent public libraries in 2015?' line, yeah, if libraries didn't exist, and someone tried to 'create' them today, there is no possible chance it would be allowed.
Buying one copy of something, and then loaning it out, for free, to multiple people? Clearly the idea was conceived by a life-long criminal, as that is without a doubt theft of the highest order. /poe
Libraries are only able to exist today because they've been around for so long, and are so deeply entrenched in society. Without that 'protection', the very idea would be torn to pieces if someone tried to suggest it today.
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Re: "... as clearly listed on page 34 of your book's purchase agreement..."
A private person scanning a book would be considered illegal to begin with here by the IP-lobby. But to the point, the private non-profit exchange would be competing against a, free for users, paying alternative. That would be problematic in its own right since the competition is so unfair. If something has to give I think I know what it would be...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: "... as clearly listed on page 34 of your book's purchase agreement..."
This is where the confusion arises. I read it the same way at first (i had to check the source) and thought what a stupid idea, I couldn't imagine scanning a book to read for myself let alone for someone else.
In Wellington, NZ, there is a very informal book exchange whereby you leave books you don't want anymore on the seat at a bus stop and people pick them up on their way to work.
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Re: Re: "... as clearly listed on page 34 of your book's purchase agreement..."
Indeed, but as mentioned below, they're likely referring to scanning the barcode, not the contents.
"But to the point, the private non-profit exchange would be competing against a, free for users, paying alternative. That would be problematic in its own right since the competition is so unfair"
By that measure, nobody can set up a private service if it happens to successfully compete with a publicly funded alternative? That doesn't sound right.
Besides, the costs for the library will include a huge number of things that the book lending service doesn't cover, and costs that it does not incur (someone else has bought the stock, for example, while libraries are buying titles in).
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Say something nonsensical or unrelated to the article, wait for people to spam comments asking what it means etc...
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Pleonasm. Bureaucrats is synonym with all the rest. The problem is that we only have this shit in the governments and not actual politicians ruling for the people.
I tell you, the French should put that little box in the picture in front of every single house. I'd love to see the authorities go nuts with a few million small libraries to investigate.
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We have corrupted fraudsters. Someone bribes them, they make the law they want.
We'd be lucky if at least we had bureaucrats...
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I'd say Uber's and Airbnb's legal problems aren't their business model, but the fact that they'd be classed alongside other businesses that have rules and regulations that they should also have to follow (with maybe the necessary adjustments given the differences).
Private people lending private books between themselves IS NOT EVEN a business! What the hell are these guys smoking?!
The existence of libraries, public or otherwise, has NEVER (citation needed, but still...) impeded lending of books between friends, acquaintances, co-workers, enemies, strangers, species, etc.
Unless we now agree to book EULAs when we buy physical books? Maybe I missed that. I wouldn't be surprised by it. But even then, what the hell?!
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That's the problem, the people against Booxup don't see it as a business. They don't see it as private one-on-one exchanges.
They see it as smuggling.
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Someone borrowing a book is not someone buying a book(right at that moment), and if you're in the business of selling books(and are a short-sighted, greedy control freak), anything that takes the place of a sale(at the moment it happens) is something to be fought, and if at all possible shut down.
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Yes, and if they manage to stop Booxup, these will all still be there, and even more so.
A local seniors' residence has a table in its lobby where anyone can leave stuff they don't need or want anymore for others to take for themselves. Books are only one of the many things I've seen there. How are they going to stop this? Why would anyone not connected to the publishing business want to stop this? Why would anyone think anyone had any right to even complain about this? The books have been paid for and the publishers and authors have their pound of flesh.
Attempting to interfere with this is thuggery, and anyone suggesting it should be slapped silly for it.
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It's the French. They don't have to be smoking anything.
Just look at the history of TechDirt articles, France and Copyright.
This is just one more reason that Copyright needs to be put out of our misery.
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Books bought by an individual in the UK have always has a EULA that state that the book may not be shared.
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Modern libraries are...
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Maybe cell phones? All consumer electronics?
Hey, how about all household goods?
Automobiles?
Hey, its for the sake of copyright!
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make many copies. distribute(share) to the rest of their colleagues,
and they are the ones fighting sharing.
dumbasses the lot of Em.
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This is what the French fought against in WWII
- Sharing books/knowledge
“…in France, they really are taking the idea of attacking new forms of libraries to incredible new heights.
- Right to be Forgotten Globally insisted by French Regulators
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150730/09572731801/google-to-french-regulators-looking -to-expand-right-to-be-forgotten-globally-forget-about-it.shtml
- Uber vilified, cars burned and confiscated by the French State.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150630/10493231503/as-uber-crackdown-france-continues-uber-downl oads-france-reach-record-highs.shtml
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150629/10165131490/france-ta kes-war-uber-up-notch-arrests-top-execs.shtml
- France And Canada Both Move To Massively Expand The Surveillance State
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150505/15561330894/france-canada-both-move-to-massively-exp and-surveillance-state.shtml
- Hosting Companies Threaten To Leave France Over (Yet Another) Surveillance Law. But Where Could They Go?
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150420/08144830729/hosting-companies-threaten-to-leave-france-ov er-yet-another-surveillance-law-where-could-they-go.shtml
- France Says Corporate Sovereignty Must Come Out Of CETA, Or Be Replaced By Something Completely Different
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150318/10194830356/france-says-corporate-sovereignty-mu st-come-out-ceta-be-replaced-something-completely-different.shtml
- French Government Starts Blocking Websites With Views The Gov't Doesn't Like
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150318/06273130352/french-government-starts-blocking-websites-wi th-views-govt-doesnt-like.shtml
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Re: This is what the French fought against in WWII
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barth%C3%A9lemy_Thimonnier
Gentleman linked above invented the sewing machine in 1829, got the patent in 1830 and opened a factory the same year.
Factory was burned down.
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What is it about people today that makes them freak out about "free"?
You can't MAKE A LIVING competing with FREE!!!!
ONLY the RICH, who DON'T NEED TO MAKE A LIVING, can offer things fREE!! They PUT EVERYONE ELSE OUT OF BUSINESS, and on the DOLE!!
CAN'T YOU SEE that RICH PEOPLE'S generosity and charity leads DIRECTLY to POVERTY AND DESTITUTION?!!?!??
/sarc
[Google's business model can't possibly work.]
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Re: What is it about people today that makes them freak out about "free"?
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Slight problem with the article's title...
That said, and it's more a stylistic irritation than a real flaw, I wouldn't be surprised if the French bureaucracy's real reason for offense is that the name sounds English...
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Re: Slight problem with the article's title...
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This cannot work for long, but the complicity of regulators help them delay the inevitable.
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Seems like a stretch, unless perhaps the sale of used books for less than their prescribed value is illegal in France?
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Reverse logic
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Legal Activities Are Often A Cover For Illegal Ones
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FWIW book exchange schemes are very common in France, and officially sponsored in a number of towns and cities.
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Music publishers collection societies came out of France, a most "disruptive startup" when emerging in the 19th century . In fact, France was largely responsible for the concept and scope of intellectual property as we know it ... or as we may not know it, since the USA refuses to recognize many of France's intellectual property concepts, many of which date back to the pre-industrial age. Fortunately, the French Supreme Court recently struck down the whole notion of an engineered smell as intellectual property.
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