The Stagnation Of eBooks Due To Closed Platforms And DRM
from the open-it-all-up dept
Craig Mod has a fascinating article for Aeon, talking about the unfortunate stagnation in digital books. He spent years reading books almost exclusively in ebook form, but has gradually moved back to physical books, and the article is a long and detailed exploration into the limits of ebooks today -- nearly all of which are not due to actual limitations of the medium, but deliberate choices by the platform providers (mainly Amazon, obviously) to create closed, limited, DRM-laden platforms for ebooks.When new platform innovations come along, the standard progression is that they take the old thing -- whatever it is they're "replacing" -- and create a new version of it in the new media. Early TV was just radio plays where you could see the people, for example. The true innovation starts to show up when people realize that you can do something new with the new media that simply wasn't possible before. But, with ebooks, it seems like we've never really reached that stage. It's just replicated books... and that's it. The innovations on top of that are fairly small. Yes, you can suddenly get any book you want, from just about anywhere and start reading it almost immediately. And, yes, you can take notes that are backed up. Those are nice. But it still just feels like a book moved from paper to digital. It takes almost no advantage of both the ability to expand and change the canvas, or the fact that you're now a part of a world-connected network where information can be shared.
While I don't think (as some have argued) that Amazon has some sort of dangerous "monopoly" on ebooks, Mod is correct that there's been very little pressure on Amazon to continue to innovate and improve the platform. And, he argues (quite reasonably), if Amazon were to open up its platform and let others innovate on top of it, the whole thing could become much more valuable:
It seems as though Amazon has been disincentivised to stake out bold explorations by effectively winning a monopoly (deservedly, in many ways) on the market. And worse still, the digital book ‘stack’ – the collection of technology upon which our digital book ecosystems are built – is mostly closed, keeping external innovators away.And, on top of this, people creating "ebooks" are limited to the options given to them by Amazon and Apple and Google. And then it all gets locked down:
To understand how the closed nature of digital book ecosystems hurts designers and readers, it’s useful to look at how the open nature of print ecosystems stimulates us. ‘Open’ means that publishers and designers are bound to no single option at most steps of the production process. Nobody owns any single piece of a ‘book’. For example, a basic physical book stack might include TextEdit for writing; InDesign for layout; OpenType for fonts; the printers; the paper‑makers; the distribution centres; and, finally, the bookstores that stock and sell the hardcopy books.
Designers working within this closed ecosystem are, most critically, limited in typographic and layout options. Amazon and Apple are the paper‑makers, the typographers, the printers, the binders and the distributors: if they don’t make a style of paper you like, too bad. The boundaries of digital book design are beholden to their whim.The fact that all of these platforms rely on DRM -- often at the demands of short-sighted publishers -- only makes the problem worse:
The potential power of digital is that it can take the ponderous and isolated nature of physical things and make them light and movable. Physical things are difficult to copy at scale, while digital things in open environments can replicate effortlessly. Physical is largely immutable, digital can be malleable. Physical is isolated, digital is networked. This is where digital rights management (DRM) – a closed, proprietary layer of many digital reading stacks – hurts books most and undermines almost all that latent value proposition in digital. It artificially imposes the heaviness and isolation of physical books on their digital counterparts, which should be loose, networked objects. DRM constraints over our rights as readers make it feel like we’re renting our digital books, not owning them.If ebook platforms and technology were more open, it's quite conceivable that we'd be experiencing a different kind of ebook revolution right now. People could be much more creative in taking the best of what books provide and leveraging the best of what a giant, connected digital network provides -- creating wonderful new works of powerful art that go beyond the standard paper book. But we don't have that. We have a few different walled gardens, locked tight, and a weak recreation of the paper book in digital form.
It's difficult to mourn for lost culture that we never actually had, but it's not difficult to recognize that we've probably lost a tremendous amount of culture and creativity by not allowing such things to thrive.
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Filed Under: books, closed, drm, ebooks, innovation, open, platforms
Companies: amazon, apple
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The whole reason Amazon got to the top in the first place was that it made buying e-books completely idiot-proof, in a way that somehow none of its competitors has ever managed to approach. You don't have to fiddle about with downloading files and copying them from place to place. You just tap a "buy it now" button and thirty seconds later, you're reading. The question of DRM doesn't even enter the equation. The question of sideloading doesn't even enter the equation—because the idea of sideloading, or indeed, even the idea of emailing it to their Kindle, is completely beyond most of the people who use the Kindle.
Baen had a great setup on their Webscription website where people could punch in their Kindle's email address and click a button to have it email the DRM-free Baen e-books they bought right into their Kindle—but even that was too hard for people. They kept asking Baen "why aren't your e-books on Kindle?" until Baen finally waved the white flag and changed the way its entire e-book store operated for the sake of being able to put their e-books in the Kindle store.
Heck, that's also why The Martian is a Ridley Scott movie that earned $55 million opening weekend, instead of still being free Internet fiction Andy Weir wrote as a hobby for egoboo from his fans. Some of those fans wanted to be able to load the e-book of it onto their Kindle, but they were too lazy to figure out how to sideload—so they asked Weir to put it on Amazon where he had to charge at least 99 cents for it. These people preferred to pay 99 cents than to plug their Kindle into their computer and drag and drop a file over. So he did, and then enough people bought it that it hit the bestseller list, traditional publishers took notice, and the rest was history.
So, yay for you, you know how to crack DRM and back up your e-books. The vast majority of Kindle owners don't even know how to copy a file from their computer to their Kindle—nor do they want to. All that "techie stuff" just goes right over their heads.
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Re: Re: The Martian
Came here to reference this story. Chris beat me to it (the bastard :) ). Upvote for him - the story is important enough to take note of twice.
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Re: yeahhhh, no...
why *not* more hyperlinkage (is it asking too much that it could be turned on/off ?) that serves as educational annotation for all writings ? why *not* better searching, etc ? why *not* more enhanced editions where 'appropriate' ghraphics/videos/etc are added to the mix ?
c'mon, you know why: they have to pay pennies for 'translating' dead trees to some fixed electronic media format; they would have to pay dollars to develop some improvements and new dynamic formats, etc...
AND -as is so often the case- The They PREVENT others who are MORE than happy and willing to develop dead formats and make them live again; but the spiteful, greedy, selfish pricks lock all that shit down, legal-wise, don't they ?
sorry, those are NO KIND of humane human beans, i don't care how much lipstick you put on that pig... horrendous, sociopathic people who shit on society...
the psychopathic 1% must go ! ! !
those pukes are bombing hospitals with our taxes, in our name...
will no one ask our country: "At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
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Haven't seen this being mentioned before. Can you elaborate?
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This really needs to be pointed out more often. Can you strip an ebook of DRM with minimal effort if you know what your'e doing? Absolutely. However, by buying a DRM infected ebook in the first place, you are telling the ones selling it that you don't mind DRM. That despite what you may claim, DRM isn't enough to keep you from buying, which means any complaints you may bring against DRM can be ignored.
The proper response to DRM isn't buying the product anyway with the expectations of stripping it out, as that completely undercuts any arguments you may make against DRM by showing that it's not enough to block the sale.
No, the proper response is not to buy in the first place, to make DRM an automatic 'No buy', and if possible let the seller know why you refuse to buy from them. Hit 'em where it hurts, their wallets, and then they'll take you seriously.
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The proper response is to not be so conceited as to tell others what the 'proper' response should be.
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For the DRM... I mean, I'm not particularly fond of the idea, but in my experience Amazon's DRM lies alongside Steam - it's unobtrusive and has never prevented me from reading whatever I want. It's also optional, and publishers are free to publish titles without DRM... opt-out, but again I find it hard to get riled up about that. Why would Amazon push to make it easier for competitors?
I'm not certain that they're not making it unreasonably hard for competitors to effectively compete via their patents, but that's not what anyone seems to be claiming.
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And by not buying, I'm telling them that it doesn't matter what the price is, if it's infected with DRM I'm not interested. It's not my job to educate them on the idea that pricing lower doesn't always mean less profits(and in fact can lead to more profits if done right), but I'm more than willing to educate them on what leads to no profits, at least on a personal level. And while yes, just one, or a handful of people refusing to buy isn't likely to lead to any change, if enough people do it then the seller will either change or go out of business, and on a personal level I get to enjoy not throwing money at someone who holds me in contempt.
The proper response is to not be so conceited as to tell others what the 'proper' response should be.
If someone complains about DRM, but buys ebooks infected with it regardless, then their complaints can and will be ignored.
If someone complains about DRM, and acts accordingly by refusing to buy anything infected with it, then the seller has a reason to care and may change their practices as a result.
I fail to see how pointing out when someone is wasting everyone's time, and undercutting their own argument through the contrast of what they say versus what they do is 'conceited'.
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...and by doing so telling them that you're happy to have DRM remove your rights so you can get a few dollars off. Why would Amazon ever give you a better deal as a consumer, since they're benefiting from your purchase and locking out real competition with the DRM?
By the way, which books are you buying with a $30 paperback price? Mind you, I rarely buy a book that costs more than $5, Kindle or paperback so maybe we have very different reading habits.
"The proper response is to not be so conceited as to tell others what the 'proper' response should be."
Telling you facts is "conceited"? You're probably doing a lot wrong, since you refuse to listen to anyone giving you proper advice.
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I must admit, I couldn't find any information as to whether you can still publish without DRM if opting for select, but you seem to have made your mind up anyway.
Do you feel like Google is locking out the competition from the Google Play store, since I can't play run of those apps on an iPhone? Why should Amazon be required to support competitors' devices? (Which in fact they do, if you count the ios and android kindle apps, let alone the web-based reader)
And for the record, advice is accepted better when it's not prefaced with "No, the proper response is ..."
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Unless you're arguing that the above is not true, or that there's some more effective way to protest against a product or feature that you don't like, I think I'm going to stand by my claim/opinion that refusal to buy is the proper way to deal with DRM, in that it's the most likely to actually be effective at dealing with the problem on a long-term basis.
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Also, why can't we search a book? It's not like it's difficult to do these things - I could do both in an editor when I was remotely attached via a 19.2 kbs modem. It seems like the entire e-book provider community is so obsessed with emulating paper that they are wilfully blind to the drawbacks of that medium. And they don't even do a good job of emulating paper...
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Re: Re: grep for dummies
Or better yet, a library of ebooks. This rather *obvious* function should have been in the very first version of ebook readers, if anyone at Amazon etc had half a brain.
You could, of course, have broken the DRM, converted the file, and used any of a number of software applications capable of performing multi-file keyword searching.
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What are you talking about, I've got kindle, and books on an old iPhone, calibre on my desktop and a second generation kindle and they all have a search function.
The phone does vertical scrolling too.
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I can't help it. I just can't wrap my brain around manufacturers that limit the functionality of their product by design. It's anti capitalistic, anti free market and everything else that is holy in modern society. Except now we have evidence that this isn't consumer driven anymore. "The customer is always right" sits on the shelf of memories.
All these same arguements could be pointed towards daily newspapers as well. Has putting up pay walls helped their bottom line any? It hasn't motivated me to pay for any additional subscriptions and I'll probably let some lapse instead since I tended to expect more and better content rather than excess filler resembling E! or Yahoo news, which is what I actually got.
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Which reader? Sounds to me like you just bought a cheap low-powered Kobo and haven't bothered trying anything else.
Check this out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Android_e-book_reader_software#Navigation_features
Every reader listed has the search function you're whining about (including Kobo). Several readers have the continuous scroll feature you're whining about. With hardware devices, there is a wide range of difference depending on the screen type & version, whether or not they're touch screen, etc., but every one I've used has a search function and newer models are significantly faster with refreshing the screen (older models were a bit slower due to limitations of the e-ink technology, not because people weren't bothering to emulate paper).
Perhaps you should research a subject before attacking people far more familiar with it that yourself.
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But more to the point, it doesn't solve the root problem:
We're talking about text for &^$&$^'s sake!!! The ability to put it on any device from a piece of paper to the Vulcan supercomputer, via a circa 1990 mobile phone or modern tablet or anything else, should be inherent. As soon as it's not, that's the problem.
Never mind adding value or innovating, morons have actually managed to make e-books less accessible than paper ones.
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Insightful article indeed
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We gave it away a few days later.
The fact that any new book was priced almost the same as a physical book (at the time), or that there were other programs I needed to strip the DRM from my purchase, were the main reason I had never purchased an e-reader in the first place.
However, take away the closed eco-systems, the DRM, add whatever flash and pomp to e-books that you like, I still won't be interested in getting one. I like my dead tree books and I don't like them in an electronic format. Of course, that's just IMHO and YMMV.
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The fact of the matter is, I have lousy eyes and over time, I found that I just stopped reading, it was too uncomfortable with the eye-strain and headaches. Once I was gifted with a Kindle for my birthday 5 years ago, I was back to reading a book or more a week, because you can change how it looks to a nice super-big sized font. I chug books the way others chug beer.
I think I have maybe a half-dozen books I paid for (always less than $3 each, I refuse to spend more for an ebook, it's just too much profit for a greedy publisher), the rest of my e-library was free. I wasn't thinking about DRM when I bought those six books, so I have no idea if they're infected with DRM or not, but in future, you can bet I won't buy anything with DRM on it. You can borrow ebooks from libraries, so I'm up to date with recent novels in addition to Public Domain works. Also, the Archive of Our Own has mobi (and other e-book-enabled) downloads, so I can even get my fan-fiction reading in.
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forget ebooks
Dear Authors,
When you make a deal with the devil...
You kinda get what you deserve!
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Comments on Yahoo cover all my points (without least contradiction because complex): PIRACY on one hand, and TOO MANY HACK AUTHORS self-publishing crap:
And on top of those, a comment from an author says that Amazon allowed several thousand free reads so cheated out of about $7000! No surprise that Masnick above diverts attention away from mega-corporation Amazon, as its "business model" is the one he wants, like Apple's music, ALSO expects creators to work for free! Amazon's interest is not the same as authors: just because it's on "teh internets" doesn't make it good or fair, either.
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Re: Comments on Yahoo cover all my points (without least contradiction because complex): PIRACY on one hand, and TOO MANY HACK AUTHORS self-publishing crap:
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Isn't it time for you to suck off Cary Sherman or something?
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Re: Comments on Yahoo cover all my points (without least contradiction because complex): PIRACY on one hand, and TOO MANY HACK AUTHORS self-publishing crap:
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Open, Shmopen
Ah, but we do have an open ebook platform. It's called Epub, and while the open concept worked at first, eventually things went awry. The latest version of Epub, Epub3, has so many innovative features suggested by so many contributors that it is effectively nonfunctional.
We're approaching the 4th anniversary of the Epub3 specs being finalized, and yet support remains sporadic at best. Epub3 is so complicated that (according to the EpubTest website) Apple only supports about 60% of the spec. Google supports less, and Kobo supports somewhere between 54% and 65% (depending on the app).
In comparison, Apple released its proprietary form of Epub3 (it's called iBooks) in early 2012, and released a tool to make that format (iBooks Author).
Amazon also has its own response to Epub3 (it's called KF8). That was announced in late 2011, beta-launched on the first-gen Fire tablet that year, and released to the world in January 2012.
Far from ebook innovation being held back by closed and proprietary formats, it would seem to me that the closed ebook formats are more successful and more functional due to the fact that they are closed.
And while this open/closed conclusion might not apply in all situations, it does in ebooks because the real problem isn't open-ness but technical complications and market disinterest. Consumers don't really want ebooks that are more complicated that the paper books they buy, so there's no demand to push innovation forward.
P.S. I edit a blog called The Digital Reader. This is my area of expertise, so I know what I am talking about.
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Re: Open, Shmopen
I don't think the point is that open automatically wins. It clearly does not. But in the long term, an open platform is more likely to lead to greater innovations.
Often, in fact, I think a closed platform leads to the initial breakthrough -- Kindle, iPhone. But in the longer run, the more open solution allows for much more innovation on top of that initial breakthrough (e.g., Android).
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Re: Re: Open, Shmopen
And when I say "everyone I know" I'm not just talking about techies; I've actually had a few soccer moms enthusiastically recommend the software to me, adding that they had downloaded it and installed it themselves on a recommendation from a friend.
So if you look at ePub/PDF as the open format and Calibre/OPDS as the platform, and everything else just feeds in/out of it, there's no problem.
Of course, there IS the problem that none of the publishers are going to promote Calibre's existence, as it's the grand democratizer for digital print content, and none of the stores want a level playing field. So you'll still get people only using Apple Books or Amazon (or Google Books?) not knowing there's another option, and you'll still get people using OverDrive (which is actually pretty convenient now) via their local library.
Plus, there's the fact that Kovad Goyal isn't about to bundle DeDRM with Calibre, so people still have to seek that out by themselves when they finally run into the brick wall that is DRM.
There are a few Sci Fi book publishers that make their wares available online DRM-free (and sometimes make all their second-print and older books available for FREE), and there's FanFiction and the like that's available.
Plus, of course, Apple and Google have created a HUGE eBook market -- they just call the eBooks Apps, and they're available DRM-laden in the respective App Store. I'm talking about things like Medscape, SkySafari, various Wikipedia apps, Google Maps, LexicEN, etc.
These are all apps that do things (better) that used to be done only in print. It's mostly non-fiction stuff, but there are even Interactive Fiction clients available for free for most computing platforms -- and a HUGE trove of interactive fiction available for free out there -- things have come a long way since Adventure and Zork.
When you stop looking at eBooks as objects that have to be passively consumed and look at them as something that can be interactive, suddenly you'll find there is a lot more available -- both on open platforms and on closed platforms.
That said, I invested in a good scanner and converted my entire home library to ePub/PDF years ago. First of all it was so I had a backup of my books, then I realized I could read in all sorts of lighting conditions, then I realized how portable it was, and eventually, I stopped reading most printed books altogether. I now look on my printed copies as my backups, but don't shed a tear if they get damaged, as I know I've got multiple backups of my entire collection in digital form. Plus Project Gutenberg. Plus all the other freely available book sources -- more than I could possibly read in a lifetime.
Of course, sites like TechDirt also do the job of the printed book of old -- and once again add that interactive and portable aspect.
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Re: Re: Open, Shmopen
I concede that open platforms can make it easier for new competitors to enter the market, without having to start from scratch and play catch-up. Maybe that's the link you see with open leading to greater innovation, because of the increased competition from newcomers?
In the ebook space specifically, I think lack of innovation is ... misinformed? There have been untold numbers of experiments in terms of custom apps and online offerings involving various types of interaction... that have largely flopped and faded into insignificance. The public just hasn't been interested in the "innovations" on offer.
"Books under glass" in a light, easy to handle form factor, with customisable font/sizing and instant access to a mind-blowing quantity of books, the ability to look up the definition of a word without leaving the page... isn't enough? It sure seems to be enough for the many thousands* of books bought from the kindle store each day. It's enough for me, and I couldn't really see the appeal to e-books before getting a kindle - I still hate reading long documents on a computer screen.
Articles like the one linked tend to pop up around the place fairly regularly, but universally they never seem to have anything behind them; they're emotive puff-pieces that people can get behind, either for or against, but just like gun control debates everybody simply airs their piece, nobody changes their minds about anything, then everybody forgets about it until the next puff piece to come along and invite more comment.
Not that more innovation would be a bad thing, but forget talking about it. If someone has a good idea that the market is lacking, develop it!
(* I wanted to say millions here, but in the end I couldn't find enough to back it up. http://www.theresaragan.com/salesrankingchart.html is the best I could find, though out of date. It does suggest that the top 35 kindle books sold at least 60,000 copies daily between them; the top 200 adds another 40,000)
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Re: Re: Re: Open, Shmopen
Because they're not interested in the innovations? Or because DRM prevents them from moving their content easily between competing platforms, so they stick with the one they can use their purchases on? That's the problem - give people an open choice between platforms, and they'll move to the one that suits their needs. Restrict them to one platform, and they'll stick with the one where they bought the most content.
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Despite the almost-identical price, ebooks have generally been much more expensive than paper books to the consumer, since you couldn't buy them used or re-sell them.
So far, the only real advantage that ebooks have is you get to read them right away. That's about it.
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As far as readers go, I enjoy using a Chromebook the most (it has a really nice "Kindle app").
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ebooks and ereaders
And I do still read paper books.
But my wife and I like to travel and carrying 3 dozen ebooks on an ereader is a heck of a lot easier than an additional 30 pounds of paper, Sideloading is no problem - we both know how - it's not hard.
We both also hate DRM and avoid it whenever possible. WE do NOT own Kindles and I doubt we ever will. For the moment our Nooks with Glow Lights are lovely - they may be replaced by Kobos later.
I like the use of on the fly dictionaries, highlighting and notes, though I wish there were an easy way to export all of the same in a file - would really ease the job of an editor.
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Inovation in ebooks
When I think of innovation in ebooks, i do not think of the mundane getting it to the device, or conversion/DRM removal,or how to scroll. I think about links that might bring a map of a region being discussed into the reader (better than what might be rendered in black and white print), or a video that has been downloaded and stored when an Internet connection was available (think about the battle maps shown in traditional stories about wars (Jeff Shaara comes to mind) vs details that might be available). Or, something my limited imagination is not aware of yet.
True openness has nothing to do with existing protocols, it has to do with innovation. Maybe it has to do with a translation of what is on my device to the natural language of the person recieving it. Or maybe it has to do with a whole bunch of other things that we, collectively have not yet thought about.
Think Open, then do some more thinking, then speak. Some years from now we will learn what open is.
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How is this different than music?
Music has been (mostly) DRM free and can be played on just about any device.
But what's different about the music that makes it more innovative than books?
Open a book and read words = Open an MP3 and listen to sounds
Mixed tape = Playlist
Radio = Streaming
All the innovation seems to be in delivery and pricing in music too. I expect movies will go the same way.
So if open = innovation, where's the innovation in music?
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Most of us spend hours a day in front of a computer screen, or using a tablet or smart phone. A book is often a get away from all of that. While there are people who have e-readers and there are some obvious benefits, many readers prefer to disconnect and put down the devices and get back to a nice, tactile, easy to handle book. You don't have to plug it in, it just works. Toss it in your backback, shoulder bag, brief case, or whatever and you have instant entertainment that specifically ISN'T more electronic screen.
The easiest way to spot that the marketplace isn't trending as hard to electronic is to look at the piracy marketplace. With the DRM removed and all that, there still isn't that huge of a demand in ebooks that I could find. There is some, certainly, and some big ebook sites have been shut down. But in general terms, it's way easier to find a pirated episonde of your favorite tv show than it is to find an ebook.
I would also suggest that perhaps the younger end of the adult market may not be so inclined to buy a book to start with. A long form anything may not be something they look for. Demographics may run against ebooks.
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The main reason I bought an e reader is because those "easy to handle books" were way to heavy and bulky when I'm travelling (which I do a lot). The second reason was because I often found myself at train stations and airports faced with a crappy selection of overpriced, oversized book and I'd rather pay less to have a library in my pocket up front that I know I'll enjoy.
I appreciate your opinion, but it's not universally true by a long shot.
"But in general terms, it's way easier to find a pirated episonde of your favorite tv show than it is to find an ebook."
Of course it is - not only are TV shows consumed in greater amounts, they're also more disposable (a TV show takes an hour to consume).
That doesn't mean there's no interest, it just means that the general interest in TV is greater than the general interest in books. Something that I've heard bemoaned my entire life.
"I would also suggest that perhaps the younger end of the adult market may not be so inclined to buy a book to start with."
The market that grew up with Harry Potter and is directly responsible for reading all the YA fiction that's so popular at the moment? Unless you have data to back up your assumptions, I'd suggest you may be generally mistaken.
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Bottom up: Harry Potter was actually an EXCEPTION to the rule, not the rule. My time in elementary school and high school I consumed at least one fiction or non-fiction book a week as relax time reading. I visited the library regularly, my parents would buy me plenty of books to read, and yes, I even traded books with friends. If you checked my school bag, there was always a personal read book in there along with the school work.
These days it more likely that the kid has a smart phone and is playing a game or sending LOL style text messages. It's just how things have gone. But hey, don't take my word for it:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/09/decline-children-reading-pleasure-survey
TV shows: The disposible nature of TV shows should mean that books are easier to find, because they have durability and long term appeal. That's just not what you can see out there. Instead, it's hard to find digital editions of books being pirated in a widespread way, and I think that is more due to a dispersed marketplace with not enough critical mass to make it work. P2P requires critical mass to work, without it, there is a lack of content.
Travel: Next time you are on a plane, have a look around you. You will find people reading magazines, you will find people reading books, and you will find people reading newspapers. A few will be doing the digital thing, but most of them are still dragging around dead tree editions. Guess what? They always work, you don't have to recharge them and you don't need a web connection to get to the stuff. Dead trees are amazingly reliable that way!
But hey, disagree with me if you must. Oh, the sky is blue. HAve at it!
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Whereas you offered nothing but your personal opinion as well. But, yours count and mine doesn't, right? You weren't lying for once, but you're still a hypocrite.
"Bottom up: Harry Potter was actually an EXCEPTION to the rule, not the rule."
Citation, or are you pulling your personal opinion out again as if it counts for something? *Glances at the next few sentences* Oh..
"My time in elementary school and high school I consumed at least one fiction or non-fiction book a week as relax time reading"
Me too. Not so much my peers. There certainly wasn't a Potter-sized mainstream hot that transcended age, peer group and other demographics as far as I recall. Maybe I'm mistaken, but most kids my age weren't avid readers and were actually likely to mock and bully those who read for pleasure than take part themselves. I took part in reading group, and I had friends who also loved reading, but I'd be amazed if many of the class ever voluntarily picked up a book outside of the classroom.
"But hey, don't take my word for it:"
OK, that's a survey of Americans. Not relevant to my personal experience, though maybe yours. I'd like to see historical result, though - especially from 20-30 years ago before things like Harry Potter and The Hunger Games made it a more popular activity among kids again. It would also be nice to see comparative figures between different media and different regions.
"The disposible nature of TV shows should mean that books are easier to find, because they have durability and long term appeal."
That makes no sense, especially with your blathering about dead tree editions elsewhere. Pirated copies of something durable should be easier to find than pirated copies of something disposable? That makes no logical sense. Wouldn't it make more sense that people buy the more valuable thing and don't bother buying the one that's instantly disposable?
"A few will be doing the digital thing, but most of them are still dragging around dead tree editions"
Absolute bullshit in my experience, but whatever. I see lots of electronic devices from Kindles to phones to laptops being used, and I see lots of books being read on them. I also see a lot of paper items. You know what I also see? People using both items (for example, people who pick up a newspaper to read on the plane but have another device to use to watch a movie, play a game or - yes - read a book).
"They always work, you don't have to recharge them and you don't need a web connection to get to the stuff."
They're also bulky, heavy, expensive and a pain in the arse if you happen to finish the one you're reading but don't have a nearby second hand store to dispose of it before you get on your next mode of transport with a new book.
I can see you have your personal biases, but it's laughable that you're trying to pretend that they apply to everyone, and even more laughable that you're trying to tell me what me own personal observances are.
"But hey, disagree with me if you must."
What's the point? You don't bring facts, and you've already decided that my personal experiences are somehow inferior to yours.
"Oh, the sky is blue"
True. I wouldn't believe you if I didn't have independent verification, because you're not interested in honest discussion.
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Thanks for proving where the personal attacks come from on this site. Way to keep it classy! (oh, and at least I provided a link to back up my view... you, well... not so much).
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Yep, hypocrites will be called hypocrites and liars will be called liars. The truth is like that. If you would prefer not to be called a hypocrite, then don't be one.
I can't help but notice you used that as an excuse not to address any of my points, especially the ones where my experiences clearly differ from yours.
"and at least I provided a link to back up my view... you, well... not so much"
What would you like a citation for? Bearing in mind that you started by attacking me for giving my personal opinion, and that I've not really claimed any facts that can be verified. I simply presented my personal experiences, which you insist aren't true.
An honest person would be interested in discussing our different experiences. You, on the other hand...
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It's no wonder TorrentFreak quickly kicked him off after refusing to put up with his constant trolling.
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See, the Harry Potter thing. I gave you a citation (solid news story about a huge decline in teen reading levels) and you ignore it. It's not just my opinion, it's backed up by a study, by data, and by information. You ignored it, and just attacked me personally. Too bas, you missed a chance to consider something other than your own personal experience and bias.
"What would you like a citation for? "
Any of it. I understand the stuff is your opinion. Unlike you, I am more than willing to accept it as your opinion (and respect you for having one). However, where data is available, it's better to work with facts rather than conjecture. So I gave you facts, and you waved your hand and said "Citation, or are you pulling your personal opinion out again as if it counts for something?" - you didn't check the link, did you? The point would be clear.
An honest person wouldn't come to the discussion pre-judging by the name of the writer, but by the content. Alas, you don't appear to be that honest, my friend.
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Indeed, which is why I offered my personal experiences as counterpoints to yours, which you appear to be insisting were fact. But, I tell you of my observances while travelling, and you tell me I'm wrong. Your personal experience is superior, apparently, because you're not interested in honest counterpoints.
"See, the Harry Potter thing. I gave you a citation (solid news story about a huge decline in teen reading levels) and you ignore it"
No, you just gave me the first thing in Google you though was relevant. The data there said that reading in a single country had dropped by 10% between 2010 and 2014.
However, it did not address my question. How much did reading rise during the Harry Potter craze? Is the current level lower or higher than that was at its peak? How does the rate compare historically to when I was a child in the 80s? Is that 10% actually "huge" or is it within normal fluctuations?
You answered none of these questions with your link, so you failed to address my question.
"Any of it. I understand the stuff is your opinion."
If you understand I'm relating my personal experience, what the hell do you expect me to cite? Do you know what a citation is, or how it relates to facts, not opinions?
"you didn't check the link, did you"
Yes, I did and it was very lacking. Hence the fact I addressed your other comments (responses you have ignored, of course).
"An honest person wouldn't come to the discussion pre-judging by the name of the writer, but by the content."
As you do in ever damn article you comment upon here, you mean? Glad you admit you're not honest.
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Generally, you don't address them, you just dismiss them, confusing conjecture with fact and opinion with certainty.
I expressed an opinion. You said "it's not universally true" - and I never claimed it was.
"As you do in ever damn article you comment upon here, you mean? Glad you admit you're not honest."
Keeping it classy, Thankfully anyone reading this exchange can tell you have an axe to grind. Go grind it on someone else, I don't need your grief.
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Well, apart from comments where you asserted that my experiences weren't true, of course. You were quite happy to reject my opinion but I have to accept yours? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Either we discuss differing experiences or you cite why mine can't possibly be true. You did neither.
You certainly don't get to tell me to "look around" because I can't possibly see things differently to you, or attack me for expressing opinion when you've done nothing else. No, you're right, I'm wrong, that's part of your schtick here. Weirdly, I dislike people who tell me I'm not being truthful.
"Go grind it on someone else, I don't need your grief."
I do whenever I encounter someone as dishonest as you. There's 2 or 3 of you regulars here, else most others are interested in conversation and I enjoy debating facts and opinions with them. Those people, I'm fine with.
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Coming from the pompous martyr who thinks every Anonymous poster who disagrees with him is PaulT, that's rich.
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Whatever - Every one of my comments is made under my login, and I regularly check if there's anything to claim in case I had accidentally posted while not being logged in.
You may be a dishonest fool, but I stand by my comments. If you see something that's not owned by my profile, it's someone else calling you out on your crap, not me.
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Mine mine mine
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Stagnation?
I think Amazon has provided features that people want and ask for. I don't think many people are clamoring for ebooks enhanced with music, video, or other technological enhancements, certainly not for novels.
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universal appeal
Looks like the walled garden (drm ridden) approach generously applied to e-books has come to rear it's head.
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One-sided 'innovation'
If the ebook market isn't doing as well as it could be, which I would imagine to be the case, it's likely to be almost entirely because the major publishers have done everything they can to hamstring it from the get-go, in order to protect the entrenched paper-back market.
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Re: One-sided 'innovation'
Have you ever bought an ebook? Or do you just take it as written what you read here? They are pretty much 33% cheaper than a book at amazon, sometimes more sometimes little bit less.
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But by all means, don't just take my word for it though, here's the top 10 'Best Sellers' on Amazon, paperback versus digital price comparison, with the price difference from digital and the cheapest physical version listed afterwards. A plus indicates that it's more expensive than the physical version, a minus indicates that it's cheaper.
1. The Martian
Paperback/Hardback: 9/14.88
Digital: 8.99
Difference:-0.01
2. A Common Struggle: A Personal Journey Through the Past and Future of Mental Illness and Addiction
Paperback/Hardback: NA/15.92
Digital: 14.99
Difference:-0.93
3. The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up: The Japanese Art of Decluttering and Organizing
Paperback/Hardback: 8.10/10.62
Digital: 9.99
Difference:+1.89
(This next one is particularly ridiculous, given it's meant to be played with by a child, making the digital version a terrible idea)
4. First 100 Words
Board Book: 3.30
Digital: 5.99
Difference:+2.69
5. Magnus Chase and the Gods of Asgard, Book 1: The Sword of Summer
Paperback/Hardback: NA/13.95
Digital: 10.99
Difference:-2.96
6. The Pioneer Woman Cooks: Dinnertime: Comfort Classics, Freezer Food, 16-Minute Meals, and Other Delicious Ways to Solve Supper!
Paperback/Hardback: NA/17.99
Digital: 16.99
Difference:-1.00
7. Killing Reagan: The Violent Assault That Changed a Presidency
Paperback/Hardback: NA/17.99
Digital: 12.99
Difference:-5.00
8. Diary of a Wimpy Kid: Old School
Paperback/Hardback: NA/7.92
Digital: 7.52
Difference:-0.40
9. Secret Garden: An Inky Treasure Hunt and Coloring Book
Paperback/Hardback: 9.57/NA
Digital: NA
Difference:NA
10. The Three Little Pigs (Disney Classic) (Little Golden Book)
Paperback/Hardback: NA/2.10
Digital: 3.99
Difference:+1.89
As you can see, three out of the ten are more expensive in digital format(+$1.89, +$2.69, and+ $1.89 respectively), two are cheaper by a noticeable margin($-2.96 and -$5 respectively), and of the remaining four, the 'savings' by going digital is $1 or less(-$0.01, -$0.93, -$1.00, and -$0.40 respectively).
Add in the DRM that is likely to be in most of the above, which guts value by eliminating the ability to recoup costs by re-selling the book, and even the ones that are technically cheaper are still terrible deals. Cheaper they are not.
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At most I suppose I could see the argument that more pictures requires more formatting work to get it ready, but that same argument would also apply to the physical versions, so you'd expect both to rise in price roughly equally.
No clue what you mean when you said I was looking at the second hand price, I listed the prices as they were displayed in the 'main' price box, ignoring the Used/New listings below it.
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Unless the author is also the creator of the pictures, they have to fund the creation of the pictures.
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But you have about about resale value. That's something publishers don't really care about (although I'm sure they're happy you can't resell your ebooks).
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Does Kindle Have The Book? (to That One Guy, #43)
I just did a little experiment. I pulled five books at random from my Anthropology shelves, and looked them up on Amazon. The following four books are available only as paper books. The quoted prices below do not include shipping and handling, which would be about another four dollars each.
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William T. Sanders, Mesoamerica: The Evolution of a Civilization, 1968, $0.01 used
Bryan R Roberts, Cities of peasants: The political economy of urbanization in the Third World (Explorations in urban analysis), 1979 $0.76 used
Robert F. G. Spier, From the Hand of Man Primitive and Preindustrial Technologies, 1970, $2.53 used
Jerome R. Mintz, Legends of the Hasidim; An Introduction to Hasidic Culture and Oral Tradition in the New World, 1968, $0.01
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Only one book was available for Kindle
Joshua Trachtenberg, Jewish Magic and Superstition: A Study in Folk Religion, 1939, $8.13 used reprint
Kindle Edition $2.99
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What it works out to is that Kindle presumably has significant copyright clearance problems, to the point that, for my kind of books, its other merits, such as they are, are more or less moot.
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http://kriswrites.com/2015/08/05/business-musings-price-wars-and-victims/
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Have you ever bought an ebook, or do you just blindly attack what's written here? Many ebooks are more expensive, especially when you get out of mainstream novel territory.
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There *is* innovation...
Take a look at Narr8 ( http://narr8.me/ ) platform for an example -- while it's "just comics", the same can be applied to books.
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I like knowing I can read my books no matter what country I am in. Risking losing "my" copy of a book as I cross a border* somewhat shrinks the value of not having to lug hard copies around with me.
Also, I habitually pass books I've enjoyed on to friends and family, as mini-gifts rather than as loaners with weird time restrictions.
As in the article, it's a shame to see the lost potential.
*Technicalities and work-arounds, sure.
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Do you have any evidence of this ever happening? I've been in 7 countries this year so far with my Kindle, and no such thing has ever happened. In fact, I can still buy from the UK store when located in a different country since that's the store my Kindle's associated with.
Stores other than Amazon may operate differently, but while I've heard of people having different inventory in the stores to choose from, I've never heard of anyone losing access after purchase due to location.
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Undownloading: Further Proof Those eBooks You Paid For Really Aren't Yours
Short version, person had ebooks on device, person crossed border, device updated, person no longer had ebooks on device.
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What missing innovation?
That you can no longer scan your bookshelf at arm's length? (Ignoring the fact that you can search much more easily)
That layouts aren't as finely tuned as paper? (Ignoring the fact that layout engines ARE improving, and user's have long had the option of choosing their own font and size for most books... perhaps such customisable layout engines are harder than the author suspects?)
That digital publishing stacks are closed? But the argument makes no sense at all! As a reader, we don't care whether the publisher used InDesign or Illustrator for layout, or which printer in China they contracted as long as the quality meets our expectations. Saying that we can't read a book bought on Amazon except through kindle software, or a book bought on iBooks except through Apple hardware... well, that's the music/DRM debate all over again. We somehow managed to get DRM-free music, I'm quietly optimistic that books will follow.
That if Amazon stops supporting Kindle, or Apple stops supporting iBooks, that nobody can step in and offer new, more beautiful containers for our legacy libraries? I'd suggest that fixing the DMCA is a better and broader approach here, and that cicumventing DRM after support has been removed (and possibly before) isn't illegal, even (specifically!) for commercial purposes.
That reference books don't hyperlink well? Well if these guys can do it, then I don't know why anyone else can't.
That we don't have mystical new mixed-media masterpieces? Well, various people have tried, and the results in book form invariably suck. Written word, spoken word and video are all consumed at a different pace, so mixing them well is insanely hard to do... not to mention increasing the cost of production, hence of purchase, further reducing the market. But there is a market for this kind of work, and it's been healthy for decades.
In all, I feel like complaining about stagnation or lack of innovation in ebooks is kind of like complaining about stagnation and lack of innovation in cars. Forget about air bags, adaptive cruise control, electronic bucket seats with multiple driver profiles, catalytic converters, electronically assisted braking and stability controls... why don't we have a flying car yet, is everybody just sitting on their hands here? Also, modern cars are still basically a box around a combustion engine - forget about all of the electric cars commercially available that aren't.
Have fun with your nostalgic puffery, Craig Mod. Take your time, I'll be here enjoying the future-present until you're ready to join us.
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Re: What missing innovation?
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Problem with ebooks
I will start buying ebooks when they respect all the same freedoms as a printed book.
http://stallman.org/ebooks.pdf
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Re: Problem with ebooks
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NEVER DRMed
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