Airbnb's Tone Deaf Ads Are Absolutely Terrible... But The Proposition They're Protesting Is Worse

CISA Moves Forward: These 83 Senators Just Voted To Expand Surveillance

from the ridiculous dept

Thu, Oct 22nd 2015 10:25am — Mike Masnick

Well, it's not a huge surprise that it moved forward, but the faux "cybersecurity" bill, which is actually a surveillance bill in disguise, CISA, has moved forward in the Senate via an overwhelming 83 to 14 vote. As we've discussed at length, while CISA is positioned as just a "voluntary" cybersecurity information sharing bill, it's really none of those things. It's not voluntary and it's not really about cybersecurity. Instead, it's a surveillance bill, that effectively gives the NSA greater access to information from companies in order to do deeper snooping through its upstream collection points. Even the attempts to supposedly "clarify" the language to protect data from being used for surveillance shows that the language is deliberately written to look like it does one thing, while really opening up the ability of the NSA and FBI to get much more information.

This is bad news, which is why nearly all of the tech/internet industry have come out against the bill. Apple, Twitter, Facebook, Google and more have spoken out against the bill in recent days, recognizing that at a time when they're still trying to win back the trust of their users following the Snowden revelations, the last thing they need is for the US government to pass a new sneaky surveillance bill. But, apparently, 83 Senators chose not to listen. Here are the 83 Senators who just voted to increase surveillance and decrease trust in our internet companies, thereby harming the American economy and innovation:

Alexander (R-TN)
Ayotte (R-NH)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennet (D-CO)
Blumenthal (D-CT)
Blunt (R-MO)
Boozman (R-AR)
Boxer (D-CA)
Burr (R-NC)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Capito (R-WV)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Cassidy (R-LA)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Cotton (R-AR)
Crapo (R-ID)
Cruz (R-TX)
Daines (R-MT)
Donnelly (D-IN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Enzi (R-WY)
Ernst (R-IA)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fischer (R-NE)
Flake (R-AZ)
Gardner (R-CO)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Heller (R-NV)
Hirono (D-HI)
Hoeven (R-ND)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (R-WI)
Kaine (D-VA)
King (I-ME)
Kirk (R-IL)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Lankford (R-OK)
Lee (R-UT)
Manchin (D-WV)
McCain (R-AZ)
McCaskill (D-MO)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Moran (R-KS)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murphy (D-CT)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Perdue (R-GA)
Peters (D-MI)
Portman (R-OH)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rounds (R-SD)
Sasse (R-NE)
Schatz (D-HI)
Schumer (D-NY)
Scott (R-SC)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Shelby (R-AL)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Sullivan (R-AK)
Tester (D-MT)
Thune (R-SD)
Tillis (R-NC)
Toomey (R-PA)
Warner (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wicker (R-MS)

There are some disappointing names on that list, including those like Heinrich who have spoken out against surveillance in the past, and those like Schumer and Moran who have both tried to position themselves as supportive of the internet industry. Yet here they just helped throw them under the bus.

The 14 principled votes against this bill are the following list, who should be thanked for taking a stand against expanded mass surveillance:

Baldwin (D-WI)
Booker (D-NJ)
Brown (D-OH)
Coons (D-DE)
Franken (D-MN)
Leahy (D-VT)
Markey (D-MA)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Paul (R-KY)
Sanders (I-VT)
Udall (D-NM)
Warren (D-MA)
Wyden (D-OR)

Paul had introduced an amendment that sounded pretty straightforward, effectively requiring companies to adhere to their terms of service with customers and it, too, got overwhelmingly voted down. Senator Whitehouse's really bad CFAA amendment got basically ditched (there was one tiny bit of language from it that was kept in which was basically fine). There's a chance that more amendments could be voted on on Monday, but from the sound of it, none of them have a chance.

And now we have to worry about what will happen in conference when Congress tries to resolve differences between the House and Senate versions, and then see if the President signs the bill as well. Unfortunately, the Senate just did a really bad thing.

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Filed Under: cisa, privacy, senate, surveillance

93 Comments

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Michael, 22 Oct 2015 @ 10:38am

So This Is How Liberty Dies...
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Baron von Robber, 22 Oct 2015 @ 10:38am

"The Democratic Party is a party of no ideas. And the Republican Party is a party of bad ideas." - Lewis Black
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pixelpusher220 (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 10:44am

Re:
Fascism will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a Bible. ~ Sinclair Lewis

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. ~ James Madison
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This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 10:45am

Every one of those multi-national corporations has for years been ILLEGALLY SPYING on persons without any government urging.
No such bill would have moved with that much actual opposition. The corporations put on sheerly a PR show. Every one of them IS NOW SPYING, AND WILL EMBRACE THE IMMUNITY TO DO MORE. Yes, even and especially your precious Google.

You're just, as usual, trying to divert blame from corporations to their paid minions. The corporations are overjoyed at this.
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jilocasin (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 10:52am

Express your personal displeasure.....
All the folks (in the US of course) should be calling their Senators to let them know how they feel.

I've contacted mine to express my extreme displeasure, bordering on revulsion, at my senator's support for this 4th amendment trampling, corporate privacy destroying, broad government surveillance bill disguised as cyber security legislation.

For those few lucky folks whose senators actually voted against this, you should probably call yours too and give them an; "Atta boy".
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IL Guy, 22 Oct 2015 @ 10:55am

Typical
Durbin and Kirl from IL? Sounds about right. And they say we can't be bi-partisan in Illinois. :-/
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Uriel-238 (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 10:58am

I've expressed my displeasure to deaf ears several times.
In California, both of my senators are well owned by big media and big surveillance.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:06am

Ed Snowden never made the US Technologies untrustworthy. The US Federal Government did that...

...and aren't about to stop the under-data-mining of the technology economy.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:06am

MN
Just got done sending our local rep who voted for this a nasty email and made it clear she will never get my vote for anything again.
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limbodog (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:13am

Relief
I am pleased to see my two senators rejecting this crud.
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Wi, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:14am

I'm depressed to see my senators having voted for the bill.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:17am

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:19am

those who voted for this would soon change their minds if they discovered they were being put under surveillance! they would be creating all sorts of crap! but as is usual, none of these 'people elected' officials give a shit about what happens to who, as long as they are feathering their own nests!!
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Dig Dug, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:31am

Constitutional Terrorism
I've already contacted my senators and representatives and informed them of their placement on the list of Constitutional Terrorists along with all of the other Congress Critters that have supported blatantly unconstitutional bills like CISA and the "UN"Patriot Act.

Do yourself a favor and do the same.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:40am

Say goodbye to any chance of data concerning EU citizens ever being transferred to US servers.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:48am

Destroying the Internet piece by piece , and for the companies that share my data if and when asked ...FUCK YOU.

I will say this big thanks to New Jersey's Menendez and Booker and all the others that voted against this garbage.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:53am

Re: Every one of those multi-national corporations has for years been ILLEGALLY SPYING on persons without any government urging.
I will always prefer corporate spying then the government. The main reason corporations spy is to make more money. Once you insert the government in there, they will destroy people's lives and they are addicted to it. Google, Facebook, Microsoft, they are all companies that are likely guilty of spying on their users. I will continue to use Google for the convenience but I only use it for stuff that I don't care if the public found out about and that is the same with any other online, cloud based service.
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Rich Kulawiec, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:53am

It's going to take a shitstorm to stop this
As in, an anti-SOPA grade shitstorm. Possibly more.

This issue needs to be front-and-center on the home page of every company/organization/etc. that opposes it. TODAY.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:57am

United Fascists of America
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 12:03pm

So who's heads are going to roll when this bill does NOTHING to protect the US against cyber-attacks?

This is why I'm glad for the recent Safe Harbor ruling, and I hope the US gets what it deserves in this regard. More countries should be shunning US companies from now on. And this should happen until the US government gets a F-KING CLUE!
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Zero, 22 Oct 2015 @ 12:11pm

I would contact the senators from my state to let them know that as a result of them both voting in support of CISA, I withdraw any and all support in any way from this point on and no longer recognize them in their appointment as senator; but I know it would never reach them. It would reach either the secretaries or one of the office gophers instead. Black letter day indeed.

On a positive note, those 14 senators who did stand up against CISA have my gratitude and utmost respect in contrast to those traitorous 83 senators. Thank you for voting against such a dangerous bill despite the overwhelming odds against you. It did not go unnoticed.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 12:22pm

Our New Insect Overlords
The same can be said of the TPP which, by the way, includes all the SOPA laws mandated to the Pacific Rim nations.

All the protesting in the world isn't going to stop bills they just keep running through until they pass.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 12:23pm

Re: Re: Every one of those multi-national corporations has for years been ILLEGALLY SPYING on persons without any government urging.
Corporate spying is what gave governments the ability to turn their spying up to 11. These companies are just as responsible for the nightmare we're currently living in as any government organization.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 12:24pm

So, that's a list of 83 state-funded terrorists and 14 Constitutional Patriots.

Gotcha.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 12:42pm

RRRIIIPPP!!! That's the sound of the Internet being
ripped to shreds.

There's no way that this CISA is compatible with non-U.S. privacy requirements.

I guess (Cloud intersect U.S.) = null set.

U.S. Clouds are good only for storing heavily encrypted data ***whose keys are stored outside the U.S.***.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 12:50pm

"Facebook, Google and more have spoken out against the bill in recent days"

Please provide a link to their press releases.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 12:57pm

Clair McCaskill
You have asked Firefox to connect securely to www.mccaskill.senate.gov, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.

That tells me all I need to know.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 1:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Every one of those multi-national corporations has for years been ILLEGALLY SPYING on persons without any government urging.
Roads give me the ability to drive 120 Mph. Just because it is possible doesn't mean you should. You can blame companies, you can blame the government, overall it is the public that is at fault for not doing anything about it.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 1:11pm

Re: Our New Insect Overlords
My cats actually listen to reason. Our legislators on the other hand...
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gorehound (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 1:14pm

I live in Maine.Both King and Collins supported it.Fucking assholes are what these people are.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 1:31pm

Re: Re:
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. ~ James Madison

Quick tell me which elected official is currently attempting to stop this?

Now tell me which elected official most people in the country hate?

That's right, those that support the Constitution the most are hated the most because they speak truth which people hate and treat as though it were hate speak to be marginalized.

Face it, while that quote is like ZEN realism... it should actually be written thus...

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be because 'The People' have lost vigilance and welcome it!

Unfortunately there are far more paths that lead to failure than the elusive one that leads to success. The desire for state welfare, protection from the state, and state led social justice all lead to tyranny. History has proven that the only direction a state will head is towards tyranny. The moment you trust your government... you lose!
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 1:33pm

You are seeing why the American people have lost faith in Congress. By far the large majority say the US is headed in the wrong direction. For much of this time voter apathy has allowed it to continue. The day is coming that either the public wakes up and votes them all out or they give up and support a revolution.

I don't know which it will be but I fear for the latter.
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ScytheNoire, 22 Oct 2015 @ 1:36pm

Representation Doesn't Work
The entire political system around the world is broken. Representation doesn't work when the candidates are all corrupt and only represent the government or corporations. There are only 14 senators who represent the people, while the rest only care about government policy or corporate greed.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 2:03pm

Re:
I wonder how many senators know about this... and how many care. I'm personally under the belief that they could just pay people to stop spying on them.
That's both scary and hilarious (but mostly just fucking ignorant on all sides).
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Glenn, 22 Oct 2015 @ 2:45pm

Those who can, do. Those who can't, become politicians (and lawyers). Where else is it legal to take bribes?
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 2:47pm

Wonder how many of those senators were promised they would be exempted from having this applied to them and their inner circles
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 2:50pm

Re:
That died with the patriot act
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Jolly D'Buggier, 22 Oct 2015 @ 2:50pm

Re: Re: I beg to differ
It shall come trapped in the spirit of bipartisanship in congress. Lets not for get that congress made the invasion of Iraq legal in 2003. The worst strategic blunder in American history. Perhaps the Rubicon of our time.

Liquor is quicker
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 2:52pm

Re:
A whistleblowers. Not a chance in hell someone that let it happen and ignored it will be held responsible
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 3:04pm

Introduce a bill to spy ONLY on congress and see if they vote for it.
Or add an admendment that all data recieved from congress is public.

Shouldn't we be writing to Obama so he can veto it?
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 3:27pm

Good news for Canada and Mexico. Who the hell is running the country? Hopefully judiciary slaps this one down if passed and signed into law. Next time your at the polls take a real look, there are quite a few candidates without a D or an R adjacent to their names.
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Hans, 22 Oct 2015 @ 3:50pm

Re: Express your personal displeasure.....
"I've contacted mine to express my extreme displeasure[...]"

Yah, as did I. For all the good it will do. I hope my senators got something good in trade for it...
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Elizabeth Warren, 22 Oct 2015 @ 3:55pm

Hey guys let me tell you about how bad this bill is after I let it pass the Senate. ;)
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connermac725 (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 4:33pm

Oregon is against it
both of our people are against that crappy bill
for all the good it will do
I wish I lived in DC I would start pulling all of the meta data I could around the area then post it online showing how easy it would be to tell who each Politician is from said data
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Uriel-238 (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 5:20pm

Voter apathy is at fault?
It's not that votes change anything. Every election is between Kang and Kodos. Giant douche and turd sandwich.

I think voter apathy is because of disenfranchisement.
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Ryunosuke, 22 Oct 2015 @ 5:21pm

If our legislators are so hateful of Iran, then why in the name of everything, are they trying to turn the US INTO Iran?
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Uriel-238 (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 5:23pm

Re: Representation Doesn't Work
Actually those fourteen representatives only incidentally represent the people. They actually represent corporate interests who are in turn against CISA. Maybe there's a lucky bastard among them whose contributors don't really care either way, and that senator actually gets to vote based on his or her conscience.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 5:25pm

That's the beauty of the internet.
You could do it from outside DC.
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lizardman, 22 Oct 2015 @ 5:39pm

Re: Voter apathy is at fault?
well, you wouldn't want the wrong lizard to win
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 6:00pm

Re:
My personal theory is that all the pols / pundits who whine about how Iran/Russia/ISIS/etc want to overthrow our government and install a dictatorship are actually expressing sub-conscious guilt over how our government has done the same to countless countries.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 7:25pm

"...Google and more have spoken out against the bill in recent days..."

There isn't one single solitary publicly presented opposition to CISA from Google at all. Being a member of CIAA is NOT the same thing, and you know it.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 7:29pm

Re:
CCIA rather.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 8:30pm

We have the government we deserve.

People are so terrified of imaginary terrorists and the threats they pose, that they are ignoring the very real downsides.

More people would turn out screaming if some talking head suggested this bill would bring Sharia law to the country, but the idea of the government trolling even deeper into their lives doesn't get a blip.

When will the people finally notice that the government has been lying to them for a very long time, that all of these things to "protect us" are done in 3rd world dictatorships we talk about as being inhuman, that we've slid so far down the slope that there is no out anymore. We are no longer free, we are no longer brave, the amber waves of grain are owned by corporations who need us to give them more handouts, and we spent more time focused on stupid things than the serious sellout of our liberties we claim to care about.

Rather than voting to support platforms founded on fear of others getting more, perhaps we should vote on real issues. If we started trying to cause 83 vacancies and fill them with people who care more about those who voted them in rather than narratives that are harmful to citizens we might have a chance.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Oct 2015 @ 8:57pm

I see Bernie Sanders voted the mass surveillance bill known as CISA down. He can count on my vote come 2016.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 22 Oct 2015 @ 11:03pm

The government we deserve?
We don't deserve the corruption of our government any more than the 50-100 million mortal victims of the Spanish Influenza deserved to perish from it. We are biological creatures subject to some social instincts, and nature doesn't judge whether we fall prey to government failure any more than it cares if we fall prey to a plague epidemic.

We have this government because our government failed to be self-checking, so it failed. Next time we have to try again, hopefully keeping in mind the mistakes we made this iteration.

The US Republic was based on the philosophy of those that came prior to it. It's not that Americans especially deserved rights. Our society is made of the same apes that all other societies are made. We thought that giving everyone rights would solve certain problems. And then other problems came up.

Next time, we'll hopefully do better. And the people of that society won't deserve it more than we do. They'll be the same apes that we are, and the same apes that were ruled by tyrants and wiped out by plagues in the past.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 2:05am

Re: Re:
Actually it's : "I just wish people wouldn't quote Lincoln or the Bible, or hang out the flag or the cross, to cover up something that belongs more to the bank-book and the three golden balls." ~ Sinclair Lewis

But yeah, a lot of self righteous ass-hats using religion/patriotism & co. as an excuse/cover for predatory practices.
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JurorSeven, 23 Oct 2015 @ 3:52am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Every one of those multi-national corporations has for years been ILLEGALLY SPYING on persons without any government urging.
Actually as Juror Number Seven I was about to Stand up For you.

I was going to dismiss your bogus case of traveling without actually harming anyone. a VICTIM-LESS crime.

Had you smacked your vehicle into someone, this would be a different story.

Hopefully you can see now, that this government spying, I can't dismiss it the same way, because PEOPLE WERE HARMED.

If you call me for jury duty, this is my warning on the damned label.

I can't give you your constitutional rights, I do not have them MYSELF, to GIVE to you. But you know I might be able to SAVE your life instead.
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JurorSeven, 23 Oct 2015 @ 4:07am

Re: Re: Every one of those multi-national corporations has for years been ILLEGALLY SPYING on persons without any government urging.
I will always prefer corporate spying then the government. The main reason corporations spy is to make more money. Once you insert the government in there, they will destroy people's lives and they are addicted to it. Google, Facebook, Microsoft, they are all companies that are likely guilty of spying on their users. I will continue to use Google for the convenience but I only use it for stuff that I don't care if the public found out about and that is the same with any other online, cloud based service.

Oh man, the problem here with what you say are many,

First off the corporation doesn't swear an oath.
There's no accountability. I can have someone holding office hung for treason-- Maybe Hillary will HANG FOR TREASON? She swore an oath.

The nature of a FIOS SPLITTER - There's no END when directed to stop.

What happens when people like Leland Yee hold office?
Oh that's right we're still screwing with this guys court case.. Hint this was an OATH BREAKING TERRORIST HOLDING OFFICE!!!

The other problem you got here is you still have questions--I don't have questions--I know these corporations are spying--I BLOCK their connections. There's a big difference between you and I right there.

My windows boxes all have the UPDATES turned off.
All of microsofts domains are BLACKLISTED
That's how SCREWED UP this is now.

You can prefer corporate spying, but you have given up holding these oath breakers accountable for treason, or any posibility of putting this back into the box.

YES THEY HARMED AMERICAN PEOPLE!

If you want a New Fascist America--way beyond any NAZI dreams, keep going this way.

IT's time for your train of thought to wake up from your slumber. Quit walking around guessing about things. KNOW what you talk about or don't talk. (not saying don't talk-- everyone knew what I meant here)
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 5:35am

Re:
Only Democrats except Paul voted against this thing.
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Wendy Cockcroft, 23 Oct 2015 @ 5:56am

Re: Re: Re:
Okay, what do you replace it with? One dollar, one vote anarchy? Full on corporatism?
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Wendy Cockcroft, 23 Oct 2015 @ 5:58am

Re: Re: Voter apathy is at fault?
There's your problem: Lizard + welfare or Lizard + religion?
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Wendy Cockcroft, 23 Oct 2015 @ 5:59am

Re:
Senator Warren is more clued up than you think; the patriot voted against it.
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Wendy Cockcroft, 23 Oct 2015 @ 6:04am

Re: The government we deserve?
I kinda sorta half agree with you, Uriel, but the truth is that a democracy's job is to keep its elected representatives on a choke-chain and to remind each one that they can be replaced if they don't do their jobs well enough.

When people are told over and over again (mostly by the Right) that government is, in and of itself, bad, they're unlikely to take much of an interest in what it does, much less hold their representatives to account.

The thing is, they have not only chosen to listen to this cant, they actively and aggressively lash out at anyone who challenges this. So I'm actually more with TAC than with you on this one because, biology or not, we have free will and we can choose. It's just that many of us have made the choice to play the partisan nitwit game instead of getting more involved in the democratic process. That's why TAC thinks they deserve what they get — and why I find it hard to argue with him on this point.
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TDR, 23 Oct 2015 @ 6:05am

Re: Re: Re:
Do acknowledge that many honest people of faith do oppose this and other tyrannical moves by the government. I'm one of them.
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AnonymousBeastXIII, 23 Oct 2015 @ 6:23am

What the shit...
My elected officials voted for. Now I'm fucking pissed off. I've been telling everyone I know about this for weeks, and this is the shit we get?

I run websites, with kids on them. I'll be damned if anyone's getting my databases so they can "spy" on them or anyone who's on my sites. I'd rather shut down the sites first to protect my members.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 6:29am

People have launched fatal attacks against the viewers of this website, they do an internet and irl combo with some directed energy weapons. Expanded cyber security is important.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 6:36am

Re: Voter apathy is at fault?
It does not matter which of us you vote for. Either way, your planet is doomed. Doooomed!
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Oct 2015 @ 7:48am

Re: Re: Re:
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be because 'The People' have lost vigilance and welcome it!"

Yes. Tyranny cannot persist without the cooperation of the citizenry. This is why the precise form of tyranny is always tailored to the people who are suffering under it.

Also, another old saw holds true: find the amount of oppression a population is willing to tolerate and you have found the amount of oppression that will be imposed.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Oct 2015 @ 7:49am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
The trouble is that such people are nearly invisible. I know they exist, but I only very rarely see or hear them.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Oct 2015 @ 7:51am

Re: Re: Every one of those multi-national corporations has for years been ILLEGALLY SPYING on persons without any government urging.
"I will always prefer corporate spying then the government"

There is little real difference between the two. Governments make full use of the results of corporate spying.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Oct 2015 @ 7:54am

Re: Re:
It looks to me like they are expressing subconscious envy, not guilt.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Oct 2015 @ 7:57am

Re: Re: The government we deserve?
"When people are told over and over again (mostly by the Right) that government is, in and of itself, bad, they're unlikely to take much of an interest in what it does, much less hold their representatives to account."

Bingo.

This is why there has been such a large coordinated effort to get people to axiomatically think "government == evil". It is an intentional campaign to make it even easier to completely corrupt and eventually take over the government.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 8:28am

How in the world are ya'll mad when they actually DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO instead of partisan bickering and Benghazi hearings? I'm HAPPY they're actually doing relevant things for once!
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 8:44am

Re: Re: Re: Every one of those multi-national corporations has for years been ILLEGALLY SPYING on persons without any government urging.
Exactly. Big Data = Big Brother. There is no dichotomy between the two.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 8:46am

Re:
Don't you know, the real 9/11 happened in 2012.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 8:57am

Re: Re:
The chicken or the egg

I wonder to myself if its not the actions themselves, such as, "fighting a foreign enemy", that brings about, the oppression and tyranny

Supposedly starts with good intentions but ends up being worse then the cure
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 8:58am

Re: Re: Re:
"Worse then the symptom"
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 10:42am

Re:
LOL. Nice hyperbole.

And they wonder why nobody takes Techdirt or internet comment sections seriously.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 11:06am

Feinstein you are a worthless douche. Well, actually your financial worth probably increased just before your vote. You POS.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 23 Oct 2015 @ 12:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Something other than first-past-the-post would be a good start.

There are countless reforms we know would help. The only problem is that they'd take power from those who like having it, and who are responsible for changing it.

So we're stuck here.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 23 Oct 2015 @ 12:52pm

According to Biblical Scholars...
Sodom didn't have a problem with The Gay but with being war-torn and terrified of foreign threats, hence not just suspicion of strangers but outright aggression towards them (hence the public gang-rape thing, which was an old-tymey version of Camp Delta or Auschwitz)

If we were to take this as a cautionary fable, this is the smoldering before the flash.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 23 Oct 2015 @ 12:59pm

Re: Re: The government we deserve?
Like any other system (e.g. capitalism, socialism) it needs to be tweaked or it will fall apart.

Democracy for instance counts on people knowing and voting their own best interests. We've discovered many, many reasons why they might do neither.

And I don't buy into free will as much as you do. Our voting ranks behave predictably and respond well to certain kinds of campaigning that incite them to vote for other than what is good for them, and to ignore issues that are terribly relevant to their own well being.

You can't blame it on the people. They're just being people.
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taa, 23 Oct 2015 @ 1:47pm

im glad bernie sanders voted no that...he definately have my vote for president.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Oct 2015 @ 5:14pm

I would love to see the stats...
for how many of these morons even comprehend what this is about, besides "ehhh terrorist bad....".
How about every time they vote on something major, they take a test where they have to describe what they are actually voting for in their own words, and then all of it is released to the public before the vote so people can see how much their elected officials actually know about the subject and maybe get to know something about it themselves.
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John, 24 Oct 2015 @ 6:52am

Surveillance Bill
So much for the Re[ub;license talking about limited government. Say one thing mean another. Think I'll switch parties.
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Bahska, 24 Oct 2015 @ 4:10pm

Proud of Massachusetts.
Everyone should just come to Massachusetts and we can start over if you know what i mean. Civil war will happen one of these days when people finally have enough.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 24 Oct 2015 @ 7:20pm

To be fair, the GOP's been expanding government since Nixon
They're just less into welfare and benefits and more into military and police than the DNC.
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Peter, 26 Oct 2015 @ 6:40pm

Re: It died before this...
..when the Supreme Court ruled that the Government can force one to buy a product from private company simply for existing(Obamacare), when State Governments can jail Christians for not baking a custom cake or refusing to photograph a private event. So CISA doesn't shock me one bit. I consider myself Independent even though i typically vote Republican, but i never fooled myself that the Republicans were limited government they are just less bad the the Democrats who have zero respect for individual or religious liberty.
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bugmenot (profile), 26 Oct 2015 @ 6:49pm

Re:
Democrats are full of bad ideas. Obamacare being one that comes to mind. Lewis Black is radical leftist
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John, 27 Oct 2015 @ 3:08pm

Re:
This is from Feinstein, you ding-dong.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 27 Oct 2015 @ 4:23pm

Wow. [citation so totally needed]
State Governments can jail Christians for not baking a custom cake or refusing to photograph a private event.

Is there an actual incident in which someone has been jailed for refusing services?

Now that I think about it, has someone ever been jailed for refusing services to a black person? I hear that we once had a civil-rights movement and that's supposed to be illegal now too.

But it's not a jail-able offense, I believe. IANAL.
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Jen, 28 Oct 2015 @ 6:56am

Bernie Sanders voted NO!!!!
If you are paying attention, please make note that Bernie Sanders has not only continued to work hard as the Sen. from Vermont while campaigning, but did as I expected and voted a big NO on this bill.

Pay attention he is the only authentic, ethical, honest, unbought candidate for the PEOPLE of the U.S. He gets no millionaire backers and has no PAC or SuperPac and won't. You'll never find a better president.
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Josh Sutterfield, 20 Dec 2015 @ 1:50am

It passed the senate 74-21 not 83-14
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?&congress=114&s ession=1&vote=00291
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