Hateful Eight Pirated From The Inside, Widely Available, And It Won't Stop Its Success At The Box Office

from the crying-over-nothing dept

Wed, Dec 23rd 2015 11:30am — Timothy Geigner

If you're a Quentin Tarantino fan, just a movie fan, or someone who in some way sees advertisements, you likely already know that Tarantino's latest film is due for release on Christmas. What you may not know is that it's already widely available through illegitimate sources and that it appears that came to be because someone inside of a film industry company got their hands on a screener copy and uploaded it to the internet.

Andrew Kosove, co-CEO of production-finance company Alcon Entertainment, was sent the “screener” copy of Hateful Eight for year-end awards consideration. That copy was signed for by an office assistant and later shared online, where it is now circulating on multiple file-sharing sites. Sources say officials with the FBI, working in conjunction with distributor The Weinstein Co., have been able to pinpoint Kosove's copy of the film as the source of the leak from a watermark on the DVD sent to him. FBI agents are visiting Alcon’s Century City headquarters Tuesday to determine the chain of custody of the DVD and who is responsible for its uploading. Alcon is cooperating fully in the investigation.

It's worth noting that Kosove himself has stated that he never had actual possession of the screener copy, which is almost certainly true. The most likely route for the film ending up on pirate sites is some employee somewhere within Alcon swiped it and then uploaded it. Still, with so much public emphasis from antipiracy campaigns being placed on outsider n'er do wells, it's worth dinging the industry for not being able to police its own house, even as it asks service providers to police theirs.

Regardless, the damage is done, what damage there is.

Regardless, between 200,000 and 600,000 downloads of the film, depending on various reports, occurred the first day it was available online. Physical copies of Hateful Eight have been seen for sale on street corners in China and other markets.

Pay close attention to how Hateful Eight does at the box office, because it's almost certain to be a smash hit, even as it competes with a certain film franchise from a long time ago and far, far away. And that really is the point. Even as media reports will breathlessly detail the pirating of the film, even as we'll be told about street corners in China where copies of the film are offered, and even as the download numbers of the film will soar, the film will do well. Why?

Because those aren't the target customers of the film anyway. The kind of person paying little or nothing for the film is not the kind of person who would otherwise be lined up at the theater to hand over $20 for a ticket to the film. The film industry has yet to learn this lesson, instead putting in place windowed releases and other practices that do nothing but spur on the piracy the further. Ultimately, though, the success of a film at the box office and whether or not it is pirated have always been divorced from another. The theater is an experience, one that still can't be replicated through piracy.

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

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Filed Under: andrew kosove, copyright, dvds, hateful eight, leaks, quentin tarantino, screener

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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 11:34am

Yay, piracy is A-OK! I read it on Techdirt, home to the pirate-apologists!
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 11:39am

The real crime, is making people work on Christmas. Instead of being with your families, you have to work.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 11:47am

Re:
Yes! Asking people to work on days they agreed to work is THE CRIME! Piracy is A-OK. Those employers are the real criminals! Absolutely. And this film will make money, so piracy is A-OK. Don't forget. Evil corporations. They DESERVE it. Giving people jobs and creating movies that people want to see. Stupid idiots!
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 11:53am

"between 200,000 and 600,000 downloads of the film"

by dorks who spend the rest of their day complaining about how bad Hollywood is. LOL
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 11:54am

Re: Re:
and they are ridiculously compensated for doing so. Going after Pirates will not change the actual bottom line. It's never going to end until their policies change. In 10 years you will still be crying about it.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 11:58am

Re: Re: Re:
Yes, those profits are ridiculous. How dare they make that much money. It's A-OK to pirate from people who make too much money. Absolutely. Evil corporations who make stuff we want just have to deal. We take what we want. We are Techdirt!
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 11:58am

Re:
Yay another homeless vagrant with access to the Internet. Stay in school kids.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
It's ok you're projecting so hard you can start your own theatre. And let in who you want and it will be great and have no filthy pirates, and have hookers and blackjack.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hookers and blackjack! What a great idea. My theater will be the best, and pirates will be allowed to rob, gamble, and steal. Techdirt Nation 4eva!
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:03pm

Re:
Funny how your limited grasp of reality keeps you from comprehending what was actually said vs what you want it to say so you can bad mouth the site.

The film is going to make fuckloads of money, even with it being out in the wild. Much money will be spent on behalf of the copyright holders to chase imaginary dollars they think they might have gotten from people who in the absence of the copies still wouldn't have gone and seen it.

Piracy is illegal, TD has never said otherwise but they often point out how overwrought the reporting and fears of the cartels vs reality. The reality is piracy can be shown to be caused by the clinging to a business model that refuses to address the changes in the world. That we spend so much time and money trying to prop up a business model and we don't do that for other businesses. We expect business to adapt to changing time and not be given handouts if their model fails... look at those poor ice salesmen who were run out of business by the evil refrigerator makers who stole their idea of keeping things cold in the home.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:04pm

Re:
I work in film, and I think maybe you're mistakenly seeing a distorted picture of the environment, or assuming that your local environment is is reflected in the environment we work in.

Different companies of course vary, but I can say with confidence that not everyone working at the company I work for is Christian (our team pulls from pretty much every nationality and creed), and not every Christian there feels the need to take the time off.

The company asks who, if any, are available to work through the period on the occasions where they feel the schedule could benefit from a bit of extra man-hours at the time.

This also isn't out of line with many other industries. Check your local hospital, police station, or fire service for a number of Christians and non-Christians also working through Christmas.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:08pm

Re: Re:
Yes, the victims are to blame. TD NATION FTW! Piracy forever!
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:08pm

Re: Re:
It's 2015, who the hell says A-OK? Kinda makes it easy to spot the paid for troll. This isn't going to reflect well in your year end review.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:09pm

Re: Re:
They are evil corporations, and they make too much money. They force their slave laborers to work on holidays, all to show this silly film that will make millions. Techdirt Nation will not stand by and watch this atrocity. We will pop our own corn at home, thank you very much.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:11pm

Re: Re: Re:
In this case, the "victims" apparently made it available...
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:12pm

Re: Re:
You don't work "in film" if you work at theater. You work "in film" if you are in movies or have a hand in making them.

Also, implying that working in entertainment is somehow as important as emergency services is a bit distasteful, no?

Your overall point, I agree with.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:12pm

Re: Re:
Evil corporations, who are supposed to be the victim in this case, are also suspected of uploading it.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Do you think you're being funny? You must be a Hollywood writer then.
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DannyB (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:32pm

Hollywood Accounting
Pay close attention to how Hateful Eight does at the box office, because it's almost certain to be a smash hit
Please have sympathy for the poor filmmakers, actors, and behind the scenes people. No matter how many tickets are sold, the film won't make any money. The reason why is left as an exercise for the reader.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:33pm

Re: Re:
... and I have every confidence that your refusal to work over Christmas won't be taken into consideration in your annual performance review.

Not all employment pressures are relieved by a "call for volunteers".
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DannyB (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You nailed it. Hollywood writers believe they are funny, but actually are not.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:34pm

I watched the Screener, and all it has done is convinced me I need to go to the theater and watch it on a Reel as it was intended. If you like Tarantino movies, he really killed it.
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DannyB (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:35pm

Re: Re: Re:
At least he didn't say anything like 'TechDirt is swell'.
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Grey (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:35pm

I go to 2 or 3 movies in the theater a year, and I'm catching Hateful Eight on the 27th in 70mm here. (Hollywood Theater in Portland!) It's enticing enough to get a grump like me out of my home theater.

Once in a while it's worth the experience, (Last one for me was Snowpiercer) the real butter popcorn and good beer don't hurt either.

Still doesn't change the fact that used projectors are now dirt cheap, and can be purchased for the cost of a few family movie nights.
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DannyB (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:37pm

Re:
Free clue for the clue challenged.

The article is not saying that piracy is okay, the article is saying piracy is IRRELEVANT. The film will do fantastic. The few pirates don't matter. They don't represent 'lost sails', or something like that.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:43pm

Re: Re: Re:
They put my name in the credits, think I'm okay there :)

Emergency services, hospitals - it seemed like an easy group of organisations made up of often disparate groups that most people need/want over a holiday period. There wasn't a criticality comparison.

Pleased you got the over all point though. Cheers.
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markzip (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 12:46pm

Exactly
The page I was on immediately before this one was the Fandango site.

Buying tickets to the 70mm roadshow of The Hateful 8.

In a town 2 hours from my house.

This is a fine example of Masnick's Maxim: "Be awesome with fans and give them a reason to buy"
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 1:01pm

Re: Re: Re:
You're right, not all employment pressures are relieved by calls for volunteers. Those situations are largely due to unrealistic scheduling and staffing by management.

If they get it right though, people in the industry can and do take time off. Half my friends are overseas currently.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 1:24pm

Re: Re:
Also relevant is that Disney absolutely screwed over the 70mm showings of The Hateful Eight.

Tarantino was advised by the cinema which he had negotiated a contract with for the 70mm screen that Star wars would be shown there, because the cinema chain couldn't afford to lose all future Disney productions.

So yes, it'll make a fuckton of money, but it'll also be buried under Star Wars because Disney decided to fuck over Tarantino.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 1:25pm

Re: Re: Re:
It's 2015, who the hell says A-OK? Kinda makes it easy to spot the paid for troll.

"How do you do, fellow kids!"

https://media0.giphy.com/media/ifxLK48cnyDDi/200_s.gif
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 1:38pm

Re: Hollywood Accounting - ooh I'm good at maths...
So lets assume the box office grosses 100 million.

Less 50 million for promotions and marketing (think producers kids/cousins/nephews pasting flyers up in various areas)
Less 20 million for "Fighting Piracy" (all the stringent security measures taken to make sure nobody "in the industry" leaks the file... well that was a waste, but next time we'll pay the directors brother and he will write the security text file... kind of like a robots text file - "Do not Pirate this file" thing).
Less 20 million for the studio licensing (to get a big name attached to the film, rather than "Joe Blows indy film company")
Less 10 million for the Quentin Tarantino.
Less 1000 for distribution (passing digital files is EXPENSIVE).
Less 20 million for copy protection features (watermarking, DRM, etc).

I'm sure I've missed something and already the film has lost 20,001,000 dollars. How will they every survive the losses inflicted by those horrible pirates?
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John85851 (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 1:43pm

What about camcordings?
Is it safe to assume the screener copy is Blu-Ray quality and surround sound?
If so, and if this copy is estimated to be downloaded between 200,000 and 600,000 times, why the **** is the MPAA going after terrible quality cam-corded versions?

Oh, right, because pulling a guy out of a theater and confiscating his Google glasses "sends a message" better than arresting the head of a production-finance company for letting his copy get "borrowed" by his office staff.
After all, the MPAA wouldn't want to upset someone who might give them money for their movies.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 1:51pm

Re: Re: Re:
I think that was just at one theatre in LA.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 2:07pm

Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting - ooh I'm good at maths...
For starters, the film is made by the Weinstein Company, which is not a member of the MPAA. It's an independent film, not a Hollywood film. They probably aren't wasting any money fighting piracy.

And the film is being distributed (limited) on 70mm film, which is very expensive to produce and ship, so probably ten times as much or more will be spent there.

And Tarantino is probably making more than $10 million, but his name alone on a film will earn ten times that.

And do you seriously think the movie's being promoted by having relatives put up fliers?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 2:17pm

Re:
Yay, piracy is A-OK! I read it on Techdirt, home to the pirate-apologists!

Quick, but serious, question: Do you honestly think that stating a factual prediction (i.e., "the movie will perform well") is actually some sort of normative statement regarding whether or not infringement is morally okay or not?

It does seem slightly odd that you are so focused on shoving your personal dislike of this site into what is clearly not in this post.

Would you prefer that Tim lie and pretend like this would have a serious impact on the film?
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Digitari, 23 Dec 2015 @ 2:35pm

Boo hoo
"it's gonna make a ton of money"

"But not a fuck ton of money, Star Wars will make more"

"but, it's NOT Star Wars....."

(I love Kurt Russell, but will Not be watching THIS Movie, Free or otherwise....)
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 2:57pm

Re: Hollywood Accounting
You're right. I work at this grocery store where people just walk in and take stuff without paying. We have the same amount of employees as a normal grocery store. We get paid the same amount, and get the same health benefits.
Just kidding, of course we don't. What are you, some kind of idiot internet pirate?
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Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 3:00pm

Close, but...

The kind of person paying little or nothing for the film is not the kind of person who would otherwise be lined up at the theater to hand over $20 for a ticket to the film.
Actually, close but no cigar...
Some Of the people (maybe even most) paying little or nothing for the film isn't the kind of person to line up to pay $20 to see it.

But equally, some are the sort of people that'll still line up and pay to see it, even after having downloaded it. Some more are the sort of people that'll line up and pay to see it after having downloaded it if it's not a total pile of shite.

Were I "Hollywood", I'd be less concerned about people downloading films and more concerned about people like me; Those who are increasingly of the opinion that most of the wank coming out of the major studios recently isn't worth wasting 3 hours of their life to see, free or not!
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connermac725 (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 3:30pm

OOOPS
way too many fell into the troll hole on this one
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 4:56pm

Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
the part where you fail to realize the difference between a limited supply and an unlimited one is the best part of your terrible analogy.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 5:32pm

Pirates
I really don't understand why people use that word. The guy didn't use an armed crew or a boat to hijack some container ship with the DVDs on it.

Serious question, why "pirates"?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 5:39pm

Re: Hollywood Accounting
One must love accounting. Create a company that makes the movie and let it pay everything it earns with that movie to other people.

In the end no money was earned, no taxes need to be paid and those darn torrent people are the reason why the movie didn't make money.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 7:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
Nah, the analogy is perfect. That's why you're upset.

But I do have to ask what strange country you live in where there's limited amounts of food but still whip-ass broadband?
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techflaws (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 9:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
Nah, the analogy is perfect.

Except that the food in the grocery is GONE and the movie is still available, genius!
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techflaws (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 9:54pm

Re: Pirates
Because the **AA simpletons try to drag the discussion on a moral level and shame everyone?
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That One Guy (profile), 23 Dec 2015 @ 10:20pm

Re: Re: Pirates
Which given their actions towards both their customers and the poor sods they've conned into signing with them is rather like a soot covered arsonist chastising someone else for lighting a camp fire and not watching it carefully enough.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Dec 2015 @ 11:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
The food in the grocery is gone?

Funny, every time I go there it's right on the same shelf where I expect it to be.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2015 @ 12:11am

You have to ask "Why?" These movies aren't being "stolen" by pirates, or nerds, or grandmothers, or children, or release groups. They're being let out into the wild by insiders.

And yet, instead of tightening up their own fucking security and prevent future leaks, they'd rather spend money they claim is being devastated by "pirates" on ineffective laws and privacy invasions. It's like eating a pile of shit on the ground and blaming the policeman patrolling the street two blocks away because you got food poisoning. But of course the usual trolls will lap it up.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2015 @ 1:34am

experience
"The theater is an experience, one that still can't be replicated through piracy."

I'm sure with a decent DVD editing tool I could create a disk with 30 minutes of unskippable ads before the film started, silhouetted heads blocking a lot of my view, incessant inane loud chat, rustling of confectionery wrappers, loud popcorn munching etc.
In short all the inconvenience of a (UK at least) cinema experience except the eye watering price.
I tend to only go to cinema for films that really benefit from the big screen, anything else that is OK on domestic TV size screen I watch on disk when it finally dribbles out on release & enjoy it without distractions
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2015 @ 7:45am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
Basic economics has escaped you completely.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2015 @ 8:28am

They really ought to stop putting the

"Upload unto the Internetz"

And

"Upload into the Super Duper Military controlled server"

......buttons together
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2015 @ 8:37am

Hollywood loves piracy.
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res (profile), 24 Dec 2015 @ 9:16am

Re:
Once the people who owned the 70mm projectors found out that Tarantino was releasing 100 70mm prints and none of the theaters had projectors anymore - everything is digital to keep distribution costs down- the price to buy a 70mm projector skyrocketed. Never mind that it took 5 used projectors to get parts to make 3 functioning projectors.
The 70mm print barely fits on the platter.
Personally I really do not like seeing scratches on film prints. I really like digitally projected films and unless I can see a "wet gate" print I am not interested in seeing film projection.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2015 @ 10:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
No, I've simply exposed his silly attempts at semantical sophistry.
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JMT (profile), 24 Dec 2015 @ 11:45am

Re: Re: Re:
You said it man, not us.
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JMT (profile), 24 Dec 2015 @ 11:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
"Nah, the analogy is perfect."

Bored troll or clueless fool, it doesn't actually matter which. This claim still makes everything you say on the topic absolutely worthless.
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JMT (profile), 24 Dec 2015 @ 12:03pm

Re: Pirates
Because when you're trying to convince a largely ignorant general public and easily bought politicians that copyright infringement is a crime far worse than it actually is you need paint them a simplistic picture of the "bad guys". It's about as accurate as calling a jaywalker a rapist.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2015 @ 3:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
That's a fancy way of saying I know you are but what am I? Got anything else?
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2015 @ 4:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
Pretty sad that you people are censoring this simply because you disagree.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2015 @ 7:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
What a surprise, you find spam insightful. Have a DMCA vote.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Dec 2015 @ 8:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
Don't be a dick, and you won't get a DMCA vote. Pretty simple really. Although the trolls are a bit dim around here.
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fitzd34 (profile), 25 Dec 2015 @ 6:23am

Hateful Eight Pirated ..
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fitzd34 (profile), 25 Dec 2015 @ 6:26am

Hateful Eight pirated ..
Hateful Eight pirated .. actually I've already got a copy. If it's any good then I'll go and watch it in the Cinema, similar to Avatar.
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JMT (profile), 25 Dec 2015 @ 12:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
Nobody here is censoring anything. Learn the meaning of words before using them.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Dec 2015 @ 1:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
What alternate reality do you live in?

Hitting "Report" because an opinion doesn't match yours???

Those comments are no more snarky or offensive than what others post. The comments are being censored because you don't like the speech.
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JMT (profile), 26 Dec 2015 @ 4:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
I live in the reality where a hidden comment that can be revealed with one click is not one that had been censored. As I said, learn the actual meaning of the word.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Dec 2015 @ 3:08pm

Re:
What if you don't have a family or don't really want to visit with them? It should be a choice of whether you want to come into the office on traditional "gathering" days. Not everyone has the lovable Griswolds to come home to. Some have nothing and some of us wish we'd never been born at all.

I think it should be a free day whereby if you go home, you get holiday pay, but if you come in you make the same. That way, nobody gets shortchanged and nobody gets accused of being a Scrooge to their humble Cratchits who want to be at home spending quality time with Tim and the gang.

As one of those people who'd rather be crucified myself than spend another horrible evening with the drunken political roundtable, I obviously have a personal bias here. But all the more reason I'd welcome it -- that is, if I was one of the people lucky enough to even have a job to go to on Sol Invictus or any other day of the year.

(Can you tell from the above paragraph I'm also one of those "War on Christmas" folks mentioned by the forked Christian tongues on Fox News, who doesn't believe in the mythology behind it either?)
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Dec 2015 @ 3:19pm

Actually, if anything is going to hurt Tarantino even the slightest bit at the box office, it's his idiotic comments from this past summer with reference to American cops. He compared police to the Klan and stood in solidarity with a domestic terrorist organization that as of just this week had stormed into a shopping mall -- not just any shopping mall, but the country's largest, the Mall of America -- on the busiest shopping day of the year. This before flooding their mob out into an airport to, and I quote, "disrupt their flow of capital so they'll be FORCED to listen to us."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-mall-of-america-black-lives-matter-protest-201 51223-story.html

Gee, that's what those 19 Saudi skyjackers in 2001 were doing too, right? Just a peaceful protest to "disrupt the flow of capital" and raise awareness of the plight of the poor Palestinians who "dindu nuffin" yet keep getting "profiled" by the IDF. Um, OK. Do these idiots in Bowel Movements Matter not get that you simply do NOT start a riot at an AIRPORT on ANY day of the year, let alone CHRISTMAS EVE???

Let the record show, your honor, that these are the people Mr. Tarantino regards as civil-rights heroes worthy of a Nobel participation trophy.
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M. Alan Thomas II (profile), 26 Dec 2015 @ 9:59pm

Well, some of the people paying little-to-no money to watch it for free at home are the sort of people who would be willing to pay $20 to see it at the theater . . . and they will. The rest are not, and they won't. The better point is that very few people fall into the third category.
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techflaws (profile), 28 Dec 2015 @ 10:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hollywood Accounting
So, no problem there. Thanks!
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