Supreme Court Says It Won't Hear Authors Guild Appeal Over Google Books Ruling

EU Regulators Seem To Think They Can Tell YouTube That Its Business Model Should Be More Like Spotify

from the really? dept

Mon, Apr 18th 2016 10:38am — Mike Masnick

We've been quite concerned about new internet regulations on the way from the EU, with a focus on how internet platforms must act. As we've noted, the effort is officially part of the (reasonable and good!) idea of making a "Digital Single Market," but where the process is being used by some who think it's an opportunity to attack the big internet companies (mainly Google and Facebook). There are two EU Commissioners heading up the effort, and one, Gunther Oettinger, has been fairly explicit that he'd like to burden American internet firms with regulations to "replace" them with European equivalents. Of course, as we've noted, when you have giant companies like Google and Facebook, they can pretty much handle whatever regulatory burden you throw at them. It's the innovators and the startups that will be shut out because they won't be able to manage it. So, ironically, in trying to hold back Google and Facebook with regulations, the EU would really only entrench them as the only players able to handle those regulations.

The other EU Commissioner deeply involved with this process is Andrus Ansip, who is generally seen as more reasonable on internet and technology issues. He actually seems to understand many of the trade offs at play. So it was mostly good to see him make some comments recognizing that across-the-board regulations may have negative consequences:

European Commission Vice-President Andrus Ansip, who is overseeing a wide-ranging inquiry into how web platforms conduct their business, said on Friday the EU executive would not take a horizontal approach to regulating online services.

"We will take a problem-driven approach," Ansip said. "It's practically impossible to regulate all the platforms with one really good single solution."

That's mostly a good sign, but you do worry about what kinds of "problems" they're looking at. Because, at the same time Ansip seemed to indicate that he was upset about how much YouTube paid artists:

Andrus Ansip, who is overseeing an overhaul of the bloc’s copyright rules, said the YouTube’s comparatively small payments to artists gave it an unfair advantage over rivals such as Spotify, the Swedish streaming service.

“This is not only about rights owners and creators and their remuneration — it is also about a level playing field between different service providers,” said the former prime minister of Estonia. “Platforms based on subscriptions are remunerating those authors; others service providers do not. How can they compete?”

Different services have different business models and offer different features and benefits. That's how competition and innovation work. What if it's Spotify's model that is the problematic and unsustainable one? Why is the EU choosing one particular business model over another and suggesting that all business models should work the same way?

Now, I know that there have been lots of complaints about how much YouTube pays -- just as there have been lots of complaints about how much Spotify pays. And I'm not sure how telling these companies how they have to run their business fixes any of that. Because, at the same time, I know of artists who say that they've only become successful because of YouTube or because of Spotify. They're pretty happy with how those systems work. Why should the EU government suddenly come in and say "this model is okay -- this model is not"?

Mandating business models and worrying that one business decision makes it more difficult to compete -- and thinking that's a regulatory issue -- doesn't seem like a good way to encourage startups and innovation in Europe. It sounds like a massive headache for any platform -- especially smaller ones -- operating in Europe.

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Filed Under: andrus ansip, digital single market, eu, gunther oettinger, platforms, regulations
Companies: google, spotify, youtube

16 Comments

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That One Guy (profile), 18 Apr 2016 @ 9:25am

The most amazing song or video in existence is worth nothing without a way to hear or see it
Ad based service pays out differently than a subscription based one, who would have thought?

I think the best way to handle such things is to ask them point blank: 'What percentage of profits from a given video or song do you believe are owed the artist who made the song/video? What percentage of profits from a given video or song you you believe are 'owed' to the collection agencies who (theoretically) collect and distribute the money to the owners of the songs/videos? And lastly what percentage of the profits from a given video or song do you believe are owned to the company providing the service itself?'

Nail them down to a percentage, rather than a number, and the discussion is a lot easier and realistic, as now they're dealing with numbers that are actually matching what can be distributed, rather than the amounts they want and which may very well be several times more than the song/video brings in, making it unsustainable to pay out.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Apr 2016 @ 10:52am

No sympathy for YouTube since they bend over to the MAFIAA.
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DannyB (profile), 18 Apr 2016 @ 10:54am

YouTube's small payments to artists?
Andrus Ansip, who is overseeing an overhaul of the bloc’s copyright rules, said the YouTube’s comparatively small payments to artists gave it an unfair advantage over rivals such as Spotify, the Swedish streaming service.

Please tell me why Google / YouTube should be paying ANYTHING to artists at all?

If an artist doesn't want their work on YouTube, then DON'T UPLOAD IT.

If someone else uploads it, and you're sure it's not obvious fair use, then avail yourself of the remedy to sue the uploader for copyright infringement.

If YouTube wants to offer you a way to monetize videos that you upload, which you have the proper copyright authority to upload, then don't complain. Either take the deal or don't take the deal. Or try to negotiate. Just like any other business arrangement.

Why is any special regulation needed to cover this?
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Digitari, 18 Apr 2016 @ 10:54am

Re: The most amazing song or video in existence is worth nothing without a way to hear or see it
this is much to logical, so those in charge would NEVER go for it, it's too "black and white" with no hidden costs
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 18 Apr 2016 @ 11:04am

We compared apples to oranges and have decided that moving forward all apples should have peels and segments like oranges so they can be fairly shared.

In the broadest terms Spotify and YouTube are both platforms that deliver content. But in practice they operate much differently, and the income streams each earns is very different.

If a music video goes out on YouTube for a popular song it might get some hits, where users of Spotify might make it the stream of the moment that they have in heavy rotation. Based on the different deals the payments go out, and considering the labels/artists aren't expected to pay for the resources they are using on either platform, its a pretty good deal.

The larger problem seems to be twofold
1 - Google is the internet
2 - Google makes a bunch of money, and there is only 1 pot of money so anything they are getting is taken away from someone else. (Usually the poor poor artists the cartels like to unshackle and parade around before locking them away again to cash their royalty checks of $.15 after costs are deducted.)

Each platform is different, and part of that is an industry and regulation (purchases by the industry) that makes everything a fight and slog to get to selling something to consumers. If they wanted everyone to pay the same, they should regulate the copyright laws and set 1 flat price for all platforms and work from there. That way the 'fight' over wanting 11 cents for every dime the platform makes (h/t Mike) are over.

If every platform knew what the costs where, and didn't have to worry about decade long pointless lawsuits you might get an EU based competitor who can challenge the big players... but serving the cartels interests benefits no one because their demands are so far removed form reality.
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Ryunosuke (profile), 18 Apr 2016 @ 11:16am

or....
How about regulating how much record labels/MPAA/Euro equivilants pay their artists?
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Apr 2016 @ 11:55am

Whadda Ya 'Spect??
This sort of activity is inevitable. With the US going all over the world, and demanding that all foreign governments follow and enforce OUR laws, it was inevitable that some furrin gummint would attempt to make us follow theirs. Wars have started for lesser reasons.
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383bigblock (profile), 18 Apr 2016 @ 12:05pm

Go Ahead Level the field
Yes. Let's take the lead of the those EU Asshats. Let's level the field because Spotify pays more and therefore is disadvantaged. I think all of us would like to see a level playing field. Let's return all of the manufacturing plants erected in most of the 3rd world shit holes because they pay .50 cents an hour for labor. I'm sure there are plenty of EU companies outsourcing their shit somewhere else because its cheaper. Heaven forbid should the US get a price advantage in a market. If the EU commissioners are so concerned then they can cough up the dough and supplement all of those artists. We all know in reality that artists get screwed by everyone, the big recording agencies, record companies, digital streamers, RIAA (the ones with the largest cocks) and I'm pretty sure that includes some EU licensing grabs where the lions share of the revenue stays out of the artists pockets. Maybe just a touch of hypocrisy going here when it suits them most.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Apr 2016 @ 12:20pm

Andrus Ansip, who is overseeing an overhaul of the bloc’s copyright rules, said the YouTube’s comparatively small payments to artists gave it an unfair advantage over rivals such as Spotify, the Swedish streaming service.

There is a person who does not understand YouTube, and other Internet services. A large part of YouTube, Facebook, instagram etc. is people sharing knowledge, and helping each other to solve various problems. Anybody with any interest in making things can find all sorts of demonstrations, tutorials, and Vlogs of people making things. A surprising number of those people are owners of small businesses showing others how they solve day to day problems.
To many Youtubers, Youtube is not about making money, but rather about being part of a world wide community, sharing knowledge and helping each other to solve problems.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Apr 2016 @ 4:19pm

YouTube lets the copyright monopoly do what they want, now it's the EU.
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CharlieBrown, 18 Apr 2016 @ 6:04pm

Spotify is European. YouTube is not. Therefore, of the two, Spotify is automatically chosen as having the superior business model.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 18 Apr 2016 @ 10:13pm

Re: YouTube's small payments to artists?
because Google has a giant pot of money, and they only have it because they steal it from the **AAs.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Apr 2016 @ 8:55am

Re: or....
Regulate the minimal payments to the artists.
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Wendy Cockcroft, 20 Apr 2016 @ 2:31am

This is one of those cases where the government really does need to get out of the way. Unless Google, etc., are actively preventing other companies from running search engine or video services, they're not causing a problem.
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Wendy Cockcroft, 20 Apr 2016 @ 2:32am

Re: or....
LOL! Like that's going to happen.
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Seriously, 21 Apr 2016 @ 12:55am

Anon Coward
He says: We compared apples to oranges and have decided that moving forward all apples should have peels and segments like oranges so they can be fairly shared".

We say, give it a rest bro' - your pontificating is way boring...
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