Manhattan DA Continues To Claim 'We Don't Want Crypto Backdoors...' By Which He Means He Wants Crypto Backdoors
from the same-old-song dept
Ever since last year, Manhattan DA Cy Vance has been singing the same old tune: demanding backdoors to encryption while insisting that he's not demanding backdoors. The only way this makes sense is that he doesn't seem to have the slightest clue about what he's talking about. Either that or he's willfully misrepresenting things. Neither is a good look.He's back at it again, speaking at a cyber security conference and repeating his ridiculously clueless mantra:
Vance, speaking at the International Conference on Cyber Security here, said that law enforcement officials did not need an encryption "backdoor," sidestepping a concern of computer-security experts and device makers alike.Right. You see, that "point" where companies themselves can decrypt? THAT'S A BACKDOOR. And it makes everyone less safe from malicious hackers and criminals. And that's why companies are moving to real encryption -- because they want to keep the public safer. You'd think that someone like the Manhattan District Attorney would be in support of a plan that keeps the public much safer. But Vance just doesn't get it.
Instead, Vance said, he only wanted the encryption standards rolled back to the point where the companies themselves can decrypt devices, but police cannot. This situation existed until September 2014, when Apple pushed out iOS 8, which Apple itself cannot decrypt.
"Tim Cook was absolutely right when he told his shareholders that the iPhone changed the world," Vance said. "It's changed my world. It's letting criminals conduct their business with the knowledge we can't listen to them."First of all, criminals have always had ways to conduct business with the knowledge that law enforcement can't listen to them. It's called meeting in person with people. Or using code words and phrases. Encryption doesn't change that. And, of course, using encryption properly isn't easy, and it still leaves plenty of other clues. Law enforcement is never supposed to be able to get absolutely everything already. And these days, there's so much more data available to law enforcement than ever before -- things like location data from mobile phones, or information from other connected devices. The idea that his job has become more difficult is complete hogwash.
Vance's speech seems to be a repeat of what he's said before, but it's been debunked before and he just keeps making it. It's difficult to take him seriously when he keeps being so ridiculously wrong.
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Filed Under: backdoors, cy vance, cyrus vance, encryption, going dark, unlock justice
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Same argument, different level of tech
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Re: Same argument, different level of tech
Fixed. I suggest a magic gate to another secure dimension that only the police and yourself can use. Hey, it has a bonus: corrupt cops (criminals with a badge) can't use the gate!
Problem solved.
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Re: Same argument, different level of tech
Apple is like a lock company that has made a lock that they, themselves, cannot open.
What the police state wants is to go back to the time when the lock company, or a locksmith, could open your lock and sneak in, rummage around, plant evidence, and then leave without a trace.
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Who speaks for the trees?
They also like to rob civilians in the guise of asset forfeiture.
And that said, the people need an advocate in this conversation that is not related to the justice system, because no-one in the justice system can be relied upon to defend the rights of the people.
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Small but important distinction
The US, among several other countries, does not have a justice system, it has a legal system. May seem nitpicky, and perhaps it is, but the difference is significant.
The first is first and foremost focused on seeing justice done('It's better that nine guilty men walk free than one innocent is unjustly punished' as the saying goes), whereas the second is more interested in seeing the laws upheld, even if the very concept of 'justice' is ground into the dirt, and innocent and guilty alike are punished in the process.
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Yes, but my point remains the same.
Therefore, it is in the interest of the people to reduce the capabilities of the department of justice in the detection and enforcement of law. Not expand them.
And that is to say that when we do anything to further empower law enforcement (say to backdoor or hobble common encryption) that is policy contrary to the benefit of the people.
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Re: Yes, but my point remains the same.
'Enhanced interrogation' is torture.
'Parallel reconstruction' is evidence laundering.
And the 'justice system' is the legal system.
Using and expounding upon the absolutely brilliant logic employed by the illustrious US Supreme Court, if it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, it should be called a duck, and it would be wrong to call it a dog.
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This reminds me of the Wannsee conference
And for the next while asked (and no-one answered) what was meant by evacuation, it took about half of the (90-minute) meeting for Heydrich and company to admit the reality of the matter, that by evacuation he meant a systematic massacre of the Jewish people.
When we find ourselves hesitating to discuss policy openly and bravely, it's probably a good sign that we should change policy.
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Re: This reminds me of the Wannsee conference
/s
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Re:
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Better physical world analogy
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Re: Better physical world analogy
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Re: Better physical world analogy
Holy crap, I just had an epiphany!
You mean if we make murder illegal we can stop murders?
I'm calling my senator right away!
I'm gonna ask him to make being poor illegal too!
Just think of all the problems we can solve with laws!
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Locksmiths are perfect saints who never commit crimes!
Locksmiths have always been 100% honest and have never ever, not even once, used their skills in the commission of a crime!
Why are you afraid of these perfectly honest and noble locksmiths, you got something to hide?
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Why is it that people love to opine on subjects where they have no background whatsoever on the topic at hand? Generally speaking, political appointees seem to be very good at this. I give you Mr. Lance as proof positive.
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Re:
i would be willing to bet 'classless' (as in lower, middle, upper, not classless as in crass, which is a given) ewe ess of ehh has more family political dynasties than most hereditary dictatorships...
i bet...
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Castes of the US
What we discovered is that castes will form from those merits, specifically affluence, career powers, leverage and so on.
We forgot that in Feudal Europe, a horse made the knight, and before that big aggressive guys lorded over (or marauded) small more docile guys.
It's the assets that create the castes, not the other way around.
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Re: Castes of the US
This just goes to show that even the commies had to admit that we actually need capitalism. The minute they began to do that they lost the argument. Marxists have been quibbling over the details ever since.
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Re:
Public responds with more robust encryption.
Government upset that there is more encryption and asks for backdoors.
Public responds by demanding backdoor free encryption.
Government outraged, demands action!
Public says F- You!
The government is doing an outstanding job at encouraging the use of strong encryption.
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Re: Re:
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using code words *is* encryption. ban that until we can push legislation to force our creator to hand over our thoughts to law enforcement in plaintext.
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As opposed to meeting in person with teapots?
Either "in person" or "with people" is superfluous, unless you only want to cover the case of meeting in person and being accompanied by other people.
"Or using code words and phrases. Encryption doesn't change that."
Code words/phrases and encryption are not mutually exclusive. It would be logical for anyone who suspects that encryption might be backdoored or somhow insecure would encrypt messages constructed of coded words and phrases. What does Mr FancyPants BigLawyer MegaBrain Vance propose to do when confronted with such a message? Hmm?
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Re:
Clearly once he manages to sabotage effective encryption the next step is to make it illegal to speak in code of any sort, requiring people to communicate exactly what they mean.
Sell drugs and refer to them as 'cookies' in a text message? Drug charge and obstructing justice charge.
Cops want to read a message just because but can't because it's in a language they don't know and/or code? Off to jail with you until you translate/decode, and then back to jail for obstruction charges.
Commit a crime and meet in person beforehand to plan it out? Charged for the crime itself, charged for having the gall to communicate in a manner not available for the police to listen in.
(Really, this putz just makes it far too easy and entertaining to mock him.)
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re:
This comment has been flagged as terroristic in nature and has been assigned incident number 982934729379126912683
Keywords identified:
'come', 'back', 'to', 'bomb', 'stuff', 'here' and '!'
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If that's what the DA wants...
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the real question
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"And that's why companies are moving to real encryption -- because they want to keep the public safer."
Uh, no, they care about their profits and they don't like the government making a bunch of requests of them that will get revealed to the public later, which makes the company look bad and makes people buy less of their product. The public wants real encryption and (tries to) punishes companies that pretend to be on your side but are giving your information to the government. That's what they are trying to avoid.
It's a bit rich to ascribe altrustic motives to these huge companies who only started backpedalling when they got found out (or in Whats App's case, were foreign and were responding to their users who don't want the US Government seeing all their communications, then later got merged into Facebook).
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"demanding backdoors to encryption while insisting that he's not demanding backdoors."
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Next week's story
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What he proposes is not a back door
What he proposes is that we go back to the model where the companies also hold the private keys and hand them over when ordered to.
That's not really a backdoor, but the security implications are of just about the same gravity.
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Re: What he proposes is not a back door
That's *one* type of backdoor, but not the only.
That's not really a backdoor...
Yes, it is. A backdoor with a key is still a backdoor.
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