James Comey Claims He Wants An 'Adult Conversation' About Encryption; Apparently 'Adults' Ignore Experts
from the the-child-is-you dept
Oh, James Comey. The FBI Director seems to have staked out his reputation on being the guy who will go to his grave refusing to understand what basically every technology expert has been telling him for the past couple of years: his desire to backdoor encryption will make everyone less safe. But Comey is pot committed on his belief that encryption is bad and that Silicon Valley just needs to nerd harder and it'll somehow come up with encryption that has a magic golden key for him. His latest is saying that it's time for an "adult conversation" on encryption:"The conversation we've been trying to have about this has dipped below public consciousness now, and that's fine," Comey said at a symposium organized by Symantec, a technology company. "Because what we want to do is collect information this year so that next year we can have an adult conversation in this country."This is not just insulting, but counterproductive. Plenty of experts have been trying their damnedest to have an "adult conversation" with Comey, explaining to him why he's wrong about the risks of "going dark," while others have -- in fairly great detail -- explained the serious dangers behind Comey's approach.
Comey's response to these efforts so far has been the equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears and screaming "nah, nah, nah -- can't hear you!" while repeating his "nerd harder" mantra.
An "adult conversation" has to be one where someone in Comey's position is able to admit that maybe, just maybe, he's wrong. It's not one where he gets to keep demanding a new conversation until people tell him that night is day. Because that's just silly.
This new claim about an "adult conversation" is also stupidly counterproductive. All it's going to do is make the actual experts here -- like the authors of that MIT paper on the dangers of backdoor -- dig in and have absolutely no interest in dealing with Comey. How could you when he so flippantly brushes off all the work they've done already?
If we're going to have an adult conversation, it needs to at least start with a recognition that maybe Comey overreacted here. Without that, it's just Comey acting like a child, demanding that everyone do things his way over and over and over and over again.
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Filed Under: adult conversation, doj, encryption, fbi, going dark, james comey
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The First Word
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"Oh, you silly child. We're are the US GOVERNMENT! We're already right, don't you know that?!"
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c'mon now, you know better...
this shit does not happen by mistake, or because they simply didnt realize the results would be bad, it happens because that is what they want...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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A child with too much power and influence. Not good at all.
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Government
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It is a common enough problem with people that see themselves as the only ones that is right while everyone else that disagrees with them is obviously wrong.
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I bet your nosy neighbor with the binoculars calls it "going dark" when you close your blinds and tell her to stop going through your garbage. You can't have an adult conversation with a person who isn't acting like an adult.
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Typical Rubbish...
Childish, Alarmist, Racist, Xenophobic, Idiot, Retard, Ignorant, and HITLER!!!...
During the attempt to silence them.
Of course people usually mistake the problem as being the ad hominem attacks as the example of when someone is losing their argument and this is a common fallacy... it is the attempt to shut a persons speech down entirely that marks the point where you are losing the argument. You can be 100% correct regardless of the presence of ad hominem attacks.
So that is right folks, even a nice guy can be wrong wrong wrong!
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Re:
And in this case Comey is proving that he is incapable of being adult about the problem. Of course that is typical of people in Charge... They like power so they do not have to be adult about things to begin with!
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Justice!
He's trying do rail the public like I used to do my old boss. I'd give him the answer to his conundrum and if he disagreed we'd just discuss until he said what I started with and then I'd agree with him. Once the "nerds" start saying it's possible, he'll agree and we'll get screwed.
The difference is I was usually right when I told my boss something; Comey is so far off that his computer password is probably 12345. To quote Spaceballs: "So the combination is... one, two, three, four, five? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life! That's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage!"
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Time for us to move on
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We're done here
Exactly. I've tried, repeatedly, to be reasonable about this, but Comey clearly wishes to ignore facts, logic, reason, history, mathematics, security, privacy, experts -- anything and everything that conflicts with his ridiculous and discredited opinions.
It's like dealing with a flat-earther or a vaxxer or a global warming denier: these are inferior people equipped with inferior minds and they simply can't be reasoned with.
So it's time to just insult, belittle, and ignore him, as it amuses to do so. There's really nothing productive to be done.
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Re:
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NO! jiMMii. You cannot have a backdoor to encryption.
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Re: Justice!
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what he means by 'adults'
1) Above 21 years of age.
2) Zero knowledge about software.
3) Zero knowledge of security.
4) Zero awareness of how a computer works beyond the keyboard, mouse, and power switch.
5) (optional but preferred) post-lobotomy
Anyone failing to meet any of criteria would understand that encryption helps far more average citizens than n'er -do-wells. If Comey actually any incremental understanding of computers, software, or security, he would be screaming about punishing companies that do not promote encryption and citizens that fail to encrypt. If Comey had the ability to understand, at all, then he would understand that protecting our nation would mean pushing for the broadest possible use of secure (and non-backdoored) encryption. If Comey had any commitment to his duties to protect our nation from harm, then he would be screaming for stronger encryption instead of ways to weaken it...at least, that would be true in a world where he understood the topic.
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So, up until now it has been a childish conversation?
In order to be an "adult" conversation, both sides need to behave like adults. I'm pretty certain the tech side of the conversation been maintained by adults -- critical thinking, cost/benefit analysis, etc. So that leads me to wonder why Comey should now be considered an "adult" for purposes of the intended conversation.
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An editing question for Mr Masnick
On reading the article, I was struck that you didn't mention EVENTS (like the VW key breach) as another think telling us that backdoored encryption makes everyone less secure....and that backdoors have this strange tendency to show up in public.... HTH
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'Adult' in this context meaning 'Agreeing with me'
It's pretty obvious that he has no interest in any opinion that differs from his own, no interest in evidence that contradicts his opinion because obviously he's already in possession of all the information he needs, and that by 'adult' conversation he means one that agrees with the stance he already has.
He's dug too deep now to admit just how horrifically wrong he is, his ego just won't allow it, so expect even more of this 'You're wrong, I'm right, and if you were smarter or more mature you'd understand that. Now go play while the adults talk' as time passes.
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Sophistry
He pretends that between his view that we can safely break encryption for "good guys only" and experts' view that "backdoors will break computer security", there must be a middle ground somewhere, and pretending otherwise is childish.
He then pretends that he's ready to compromise on his view, provided the experts also compromise with theirs.
There are two techniques there:
- the middle ground is a fallacy in itself. It's not a case where the two sides of the argument have equivalent value, so it's not "adult" to compromise here when reality doesn't compromise. Encryption is either reasonably secure (no backdoor, though there can be flaws that we try to close as best as possible) or basically useless (with backdoor that "bad guys" would eventually find and exploit as much as "good guys" would from the start).
- the other - implicit - lie is that he will compromise on anything. His strategy is basically to make people accept that his view is as valid as the experts', force a discussion about a "compromise", then make people accept his opinion fully when the "compromise" turns out to be impossible. (see previous point) At that point, people will already debate on the assumption that his view is valid, and he will probably use connections and arguments of authority to settle things in his favor.
In a way, he's right. He wants to settle things the "adult" way: using fallacies, forcing his views on others, manipulating the system. Basic politics. Very adult.
That's not reasonable, but it's definitely the way adults settle things.
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Hanlon's Razor
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I thought the point of the convention was helping government agencies better protect themselves, not embarrass themselves.
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Re: Re:
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You flipping don't understand Comey at all.
You don't get it, do you? Comey is just doing his job, and his job is "to make everyone more safe" just as much as it is a bank's job "to make everyone more rich". That's just fairy-tale nonsense. Comey's job is routing as much of everyone's safety through his agency's hands as possible, just like a bank tries routing as much of everyone's money through its hand. That gives unilateral power to the nation paying the NSA. The NSA is not there for the universal good, or its funding would look more like that of the UN.
Of course, while moving communications or money around, a healthy administrative fee is taken. Backdoorless public key encryption, a means to provide safe communications outside of the NSA's control, is about as attractive to the NSA and Comey as Bitcoin as a means to move money around is for banks.
Comey is not paid for making everyone safer. He and the entire NSA is paid for making U.S. citizens safer than others. To achieve this differentiation, he needs tools and control that safe encryption is incompatible with.
Once he serves the world as well as the U.S., the U.S. has no reason to write him a paycheck.
So what if he makes everyone less safe as long as the toll (in safety, not money) on the U.S. citizens is less than on everybody else? He is paid to let the U.S. come out ahead. And if that means shooting its feet, as long as more bullets hit others that mission is accomplished.
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Re: Sophistry
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Third Party Doctrine
Seems like this is all about making the Constitution less of an impediment to the government. Maybe it's about time we got rid of the Third Party Doctrine, which try as I might, I can't find anywhere in the Constitution.
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Re: Third Party Doctrine
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t-shirt idea
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I propose a challenge...
This is not about not wanting to do anything about a problem, this is about such an unsolvable problem that there isn't even a serious proposal on the table on how this could be done simply because some of the worlds most powerful organizations can't find a single knowledgeable person to agree with them.
Don't think that experts who found this solution wouldn't come forward because that would be one mighty achievement on par with proving that god exists.
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Adult Conversation
So when he says "adult conversation" he means all the kids (which includes experts, naughty little back-talkers that they are) shall shut up and let him talk...
...because he is the only adult in the room. "Or else!"
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Boring
Ah crap... that's Comey's plan, isn't it?
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Re:
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I am unable to figure out this typo.
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Listen to the code words
Because adults are mature enough to realize with quiet resignation that it's difficult to enjoy even the illusion of a free society after you've been brutally murdered by an massively powerful government.
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Clinton
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Re:
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Drugs are bad MMMk?
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Re: t-shirt idea
Encryption is math.
Math should not be a crime.
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How about he try this suggestion?
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Re: I propose a challenge...
And just as impossible
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Re:
It's not a typo, just a reference to something there is no particular reason this audience should be familiar with.
http://www.pokernews.com/strategy/understanding-what-it-means-to-be-pot-committed-20050.htm
It refers basically to a point of no return, beyond which one must continue through to the end rather than retreating.
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Re: Re: Re:
Listen to the fuckin' experts, you fools in washington!
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