Lenovo Accused Of Locking Linux Out Of Certain Laptops At Microsoft's Request
from the that-would-be-dumb dept
A thread on Reddit is getting a fair bit of attention today, claiming that Lenovo has set up some of its Yoga laptops to block anyone from installing Linux -- and a Lenovo representative then pointed the finger at Microsoft, saying that it's part of what Lenovo was required to do as part of the Microsoft "Signature Edition" Windows 10 program, though there are reasons to doubt this is true. What is clearly true is that there's a problem installing Linux on a bunch of Lenovo machines. Here's a giant thread on the problems (which apparently disappeared for a while, but is back as I write this). And here's another. And here's another. Some of these threads go back many months. But the issue that has suddenly made it big news is a comment supposedly from a Lenovo "product expert" that the company is forced to block it as a part of the Signature Edition program:
So, yeah, based on this storyline so far, you have Microsoft making a clean install of its operating system without bloatware (good idea!), but then being accused of making Lenovo design its BIOS to block the installation of Linux (bad idea!). There is at least some reasonable skepticism that the problem here is really because of the Microsoft Signature Edition program. First of all, Signature Edition computers are supposed to only be available directly via Microsoft's stores -- and the laptop that kicked this off was purchased at Best Buy. Also it wasn't labeled as a Signature Edition PC. And it's certainly not unheard of for low level employees in forums to post incorrect information -- and there is even some question as to whether or not the "Lenovo Product Expert" in the forum post above is even a Lenovo employee or a third-party contractor anyway.
So whether Microsoft is truly to blame here is still an open question. At the very least, it does seem like Lenovo has some questions to answer -- and one hopes that the company will be more forthright and honest than it was back during the Superfish episode when it basically lied through its teeth until it couldn't lie any more.
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Filed Under: bios, blocked, competition, linux, locked, secure boot, signature edition, windows
Companies: lenovo, microsoft
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The First Word
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So... It's Linux?
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update
[U PDATE 9-21-16 7:25 PDT: Comment from Lenovo:
"To improve system performance, Lenovo is leading an industry trend of adopting RAID on the SSDs in certain product configurations. Lenovo does not intentionally block customers using other operating systems on its devices and is fully committed to providing Linux certifications and installation guidance on a wide range of products -https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd031426. Unsupported models will rely on Linux operating system vendors releasing new kernel and drivers to support features such as RAID on SSD."
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Re: update
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Re:
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Re: Re: update
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Re: update
None of this "does not intentionally block" stuff. Your hardware change that blocks major non-Microsoft OSes is something that you should consider, or take the blame for not considering it.
Before anyone says that is unfair, it is no less fair than pointing out that any vendor X of a product (not even a computer) can't do Y. (HP and ink cartridges?) This kind of thing should be made widely known. Especially when large numbers of developers run Linux, and use laptops.
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Obviously....
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Re: update
But linux has supported RAID on ANYTHING for more than a decade! Try another lie, Lenovo.
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Enquiry in re other operating systems
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Re: Re: update
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Ha... ha... haha... hahahahahaha
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Lenovo leading the way again (superfish II)
Great, Lenovo, and just where have you published the specs for doing so on your new non-industry-standard hardware? Or is this a new version of superfish embedded in RAID drivers this time?
(crickets)
Yeah, that's what I thought.
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Re: Re: update
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Re: Re: update
Linux devs can easily change that and then Linux would install easily.
But right now there's a catch-22, because you can't load far enough to load the driver, since the common workaround (switch the BIOS to AHCI) is locked.
Once RAID drivers are installed in Linux by default, it won't be a problem anymore.
People are also having a VERY difficult time reinstalling Windows 10 on this tablet.
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Re: Enquiry in re other operating systems
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Re: Ha... ha... haha... hahahahahaha
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Re: Re: Re: update
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I don't see why it matters....
I refuse to buy anything from Lenovo, they can't be trusted.
Even better, I have stopped 4 friends from buying a Lenovo.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: update
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my very great suspicion is that they have no choice but to be obnoxious. they've likely been subsumed into a higher power and must do the bidding of that higher power. or else.
they must realize their days are numbered if they can't tilt the playing field even more than they usually do, and this is a ham-handed attempt.
as for lenovo, this is just lenovo.
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Easy response. No more lenovo purchases
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Best Bet
Technically true, but I know where I'd put my money.
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Ooooohhh, this is gonna be good
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Re: Best Bet
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Re: Re: Re: update
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Re: Ooooohhh, this is gonna be good
One of my pet conspiracies, is that MS was responsible in part for W. Bush's fraudulent election in Bush V. Gore. There was a HUGE antitrust case against them at the time which they had lost on multiple appeals. Soon after W. took office, the DOJ dropped the case.
YMMV. But since then I have regarded MS as a branch of government. Indistinguishable from other agencies of state in all ways except formal recognition by the state itself.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: update
How is that relevant, exactly?
If an SSD is hooked up to a RAID controller, then your OS needs to be able to access that RAID controller to access that disk. Whether it would be able to implement software RAID if the hardware were in a completely different configuration doesn't really have anything to do with it.
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Re: Re:
No, for intentionally locking down firmware settings that allow users to *access* those drivers.
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Re: I don't see why it matters....
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Re: Ooooohhh, this is gonna be good
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Re:
No thanks, I like my malware free (not WinMal v.10), oh, but wait, Linux doesn't get malware (or viruses) too easy. What was I thinking?
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Re: update
Heads up for the lay-person, a BIOS is a chip on the motherboard that takes the initial or 'basic' instruction set (tells the computer how to boot up to a flashing cursor without an OS) so that you can install an OS. A BIOS (therefore) MUST be instructed NOT to install, or it will try to. If Winjunk can install, Linux can install, UNLESS BIOS is told to 'check first, and deny if it is'.
Since the BIOS is a $1 chip, simply ask Lenovo why they're using a different BIOS on their 'Signature' series.
(FYI, I had a Dell Inspiron like this, that absolutely would NOT take a Linux install - comes to find out, the specific motherboard used had been BIOS'd to 'prevent Linux installation', and there were many online complaints from those who wanted to change over, when Winjunk 10 hit the market.)
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Re:
1. it's their laptop and people get to choose which operating system they use
2. many GNU/Linux users also use Windows
3. not everyone uses Windows, it's not the only OS available.
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Re:
Taxes took down Capone, not the murder of hundreds. I'm sure taxes will take down the 'you bought it, but really, you're only leasing it' crowd, too.
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Re: Obviously....
Then again, maybe that's why Microsoft took away every single programming tool they could from their Terminal Window years ago (thinking the user did NOT need to be able to use command lines), but as of last year, want to but the Linux Bash screen and functionality into their Winjunk 10 ensemble.
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Whom to blame...
The crux is that there are two issues here:
1. Intel has not provided any drivers for Linux. They have for Windows, and
2. Intel wants Lenovo to put the device in RAID mode so the normal Windows drivers won't attach; Intel's custom driver will; that driver will set some power profile stuff that will make the laptop run cooler longer.
Put those two together and we have a laptop that COULD have linux installed on it except it defaults to putting storage in an unusable state and has the BIOS setting to fix it locked out.
Garret also suggests the Lenovo quote is misunderstood and likely references Microsoft's UEFI requirements, not some dastardly deal with Lenovo.
E
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Re: Re: Enquiry in re other operating systems
Consider what you are saying, that a computer manufacturer, that buys a host of various BIOS chips (some that CAN run Linux) chose to put a BIOS (which, BTW, is programmed on the Signature Machines to be locked out and apparently not re-flashed while on-board) on this specific computer, which is sorting out what OS's it will allow to be installed on a computer, based on whether an RMT RAID driver is built-into the OS Kernel? That's nothing but fingerprinting for identification, at best!
I've got an old PC486-Pentium I that runs Linux PERFECTLY, and an AMD64 quad-core 3.0-ghz with 32-GB of RAM running it too (the AMD64 machine is MUCH faster than a Winjunk-OS-peer, too). Linux is FAR MORE versatile than Winjunk - why (other than shady agreements) would they lock Linux out of ANY of their computers?
Microjunk Win 10 - the best advertisement program that Linux could ever design!
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Re: Whom to blame...
What a joke, a Pontiac Fiero that repeatedly catches on fire when you try to actually drive them like the sports-cars they are marketed to be - so you put a 4-cylinder 98-HP motor in them, to prevent lawsuits.
Yeah, uh, this didn't work well for Pontiac, either. People catch on, FAST! Then, you just end up with another market failure, lost shares, etc.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: update
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LENOVO THREAT
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“I won’t go into details regarding companies like Huawei, ZTE, Lenovo, and others, also because there are differences among them,” he said. “But I’ll tell you this, the Chinese industrial effort against the United States is, to my mind, absolutely breathtaking. I have never seen anything of such a scale and persistence coming at this country.”
.
Please!... no emails!
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Ultrabook
That drive is connected to the built-in on-board controller, which can either do Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) or RAID. Lenovo has elected to have its BIOS only allow the controller to do RAID mode.
As Intel has not released a Linux RAID driver for this chipset -- or even the specifications -- Linux has no way to access this drive through the built in controller.
Note that Intel hasn't released the specs to Microsoft either. That's why their proprietary driver is required for e.g. Windows 10 to boot.
E
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Re: LENOVO THREAT
*ROTFL!!!*
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: update
IT'S A LAPTOP, YOU DINK.
IT SAYS SO IN THE HEADLINE.
IT ALSO SAYS SO IN THE FIRST SENTENCE.
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Re: Re: LENOVO THREAT
2: there's a difference between a computer that contains Chinese components and one that contains Chinese software/firmware. If your motherboard has some transistors on it that were manufactured in China, that's probably not a threat. But I wouldn't go buying a cheap Chinese phone charger, because it could very well contain firmware that installs a malware payload onto my phone.
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Good Ridance
Why would you use anything else? Their must be something wrong with you if you do.
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New kind of RAID
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Re: Re: Re: Enquiry in re other operating systems
What? That's like saying that my Intel CPU is performing fingerprinting by not letting me install an OS based on whether it supports the x86 instruction set.
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Good thinking
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160921/06403335582/lenovo-accused-locking-linux-out-certain -laptops-microsofts-request.shtml#c541
E
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Re: Re: update
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Re: Re: Re: LENOVO THREAT
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They've done this FOUR TIMES in a row now, when will people get wise that a chinese-government owned 'business computer' company isn't to be trusted?
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Re: Good thinking
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Re: Re:
It's easier to tell people to vote with their feet than to get your money back off bad actors.
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Re: Whom to blame...
My experience seems to indicate that this sort of toggle is a nearly universal feature for every system that supports a hardware RAID mode within the past several years, if not the past decade or more. The decision to omit it is one worth questioning.
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Re: update
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