Thai Government Demands Popular Chat App Reveal Any Time Any User Insults The King

from the encrypted-chats-are-important dept

Wed, Nov 2nd 2016 4:31pm — Mike Masnick

I spent some time in Asia earlier this year, and while people in the US focus on Facebook Messenger, Snapchat, Google Hangouts and a variety of other chat apps, the chat app of choice over there was Line. Basically everyone used it. A year ago, Line moved towards true end-to-end encryption. Earlier this year, the company made end-to-end encrypted chats the default, rather than as a user option (Thank you Snowden!).

Good timing. The company has apparently now refused to obey a Thai government demand that it alert the government to anyone insulting the Thai royal family on the messaging app. For years, we've written about Thailand's ridiculous lese majeste laws, which make it a crime to insult the king. As we've noted, the law is used as a way to censor and crack down on political opponents. And, of course, with the death of the Thai king last month, there's been a sudden uptick in Thai officials going after people for supposed lese majeste violations.

But Line is telling the government that it just can't help out here.

"We do not monitor or block user content. User content is also encrypted, and cannot be viewed by LINE," the statement sent to DPA said.

Of course, there's been some controversy in the past over this. Back in 2014, Thailand announced that it was instituting a broad surveillance program to snoop on basically all internet communications for the sake of seeking out and punishing lese majeste violators. A few months later, Thai government officials flat out claimed that this included monitoring Line messages, something that the company flat out denied (though, that may have also inspired the move to encryption). While Thai officials have, at times, even claimed the ability to read encrypted messages, it seemed like that was just idle boasting, rather than a legitimate revelation of surveillance capabilities.

There is one oddity about Line's response to the Thai government, though:

"We ask the authorities seeking to obtain user data to make official requests through diplomatic channels and have so advised the Thai authorities," LINE added.

So, uh, if the messages are all end-to-end encrypted and there's no way for Line to access them to share with any government, why is it asking the Thai government to use diplomatic channels to make an official request?

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Filed Under: chat, encryption, insults, king, lese majeste, messaging, thailand
Companies: line

36 Comments

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zboot (profile), 2 Nov 2016 @ 4:46pm

I'm guessing it (request that requests go through an official channel) is a neat way to funnel requests through a single source where sequesters can be told "sorry" by someone with legal authority over them.

Now, instead of every single police office, government agency, etc all making requests and threats when they don't get fulfilled, just one single agency acts as gatekeeper for requests and threats.
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- Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2016 @ 12:01pm
  
  Re:
  It just means that while LINE can't read the messages, if they follow "diplomatic" channels, then the NSA can read the messages from one of their manned "man in the middle" attack stations at one of the internet hubs and provide the message information.
  
  Spy harder...
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Capt ICE Enforcer, 2 Nov 2016 @ 4:57pm

Trump's role model
Looks like we know how Trump will be if he becomes President.
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- Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2016 @ 5:31pm
  
  Re: Trump's role model
  Well it's been working for OBAMA!!! The whistle blowers being thrown in Jail by Obama has been in record numbers!!!
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2016 @ 5:32pm
    
    Re: Re: Trump's role model
    There you are wanting to vote in a criminal named Hillary!!!
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2016 @ 8:32pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Trump's role model
      Even if options are binary motivations arent always the same.
      
      There IS a difference between wanting to vote in a criminal, and NOT wanting a geopolitical time bomb of self destructive smug arrogance in office.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Roger Strong (profile), 2 Nov 2016 @ 8:59pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump's role model
        A geopolitical time bomb of self destructive smug arrogance who is also a criminal.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Jeff Green (profile), 3 Nov 2016 @ 3:29am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump's role model
        Given the choice between two criminals why not choose the marginally more sane?
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2016 @ 3:58am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump's role model
        Why not choose the one who ISN'T a pedophile and a rapist?
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2016 @ 12:21pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump's role model
        Based on the leaks, lawsuits, and other available information, I'm still not sure which candidate we're referring to here.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- CensoredRobot, 3 Nov 2016 @ 5:11pm
  
  Re: Trump's role model
  You're an idiot...
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2016 @ 5:05pm

I don't really see why Thailand needs to know if someone insults Elvis.
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Alex Elsayed, 2 Nov 2016 @ 5:18pm

So, uh, if the messages are all end-to-end encrypted and there's no way for Line to access them to share with any government, why is it asking the Thai government to use diplomatic channels to make an official request?

Well-aimed spite? Knowing they did all that paperwork when you write out a guaranteed 'no' would be hilarious.
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Grey (profile), 2 Nov 2016 @ 5:27pm

I started using Line while chaperoning teenagers on an exchange trip to Hiroshima.

I rather like it, outside of the cutesy stuff my younger kids love.

The file sharing, gif making on PC (just slap a border down and hit record) and getting my messages on PC and phone at the same time make it quite handy, the encryption is a nice touch. Video phone has worked well too.

Easy enough that my elderly mother even figured it out.
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- PRMan, 3 Nov 2016 @ 11:54am
  
  Re:
  I also installed it while we had Japanese exchange students here and used it when my daughter was in Japan.
  
  But I finally removed it because it was the heaviest, most bloated app on my phone.
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TechnoMage (profile), 2 Nov 2016 @ 5:59pm

"why is it asking the Thai government to use diplomatic channels to make an official request?"

Easy. To get help from their home country, and to show that they aren't a Thai company.
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That One Guy (profile), 2 Nov 2016 @ 6:20pm

The ultimate irony
The punchline to the whole joke of course is that the law against 'insulting' the king is more insulting than anything it might stop, as it makes it clear that mere words are enough to grievously insult the loser on the throne(or at this point the corpse of said loser apparently).

The law itself is a greater insult to the 'dignity' and 'majesty' of the royal family by implying that they're such thin-skinned buffoons that despite being in such powerful positions they are so immature that they just can't handle mean words.

(Before someone else points it out, yes I'm aware that it's being used to crack down on dissent, that being it's actual function, my comment is based upon the lie of what it's claimed to be for.)
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- Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2016 @ 7:35pm
  
  Re: The ultimate irony
  You should also know that the previous Thai King that recently passed away didn't like the law, but as he's just a figure head, it's basicly a military tribunal in charge, and while he's been king, there's been at least 2 known coup, but due to his popularity, none of the tribunal tried to overthrow him, since it would lead to civil war with the civilian population.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - That One Guy (profile), 3 Nov 2016 @ 4:53am
    
    Re: Re: The ultimate irony
    In which case I'd partially retract my comment, as I still believe it holds in general but it wouldn't seem to apply to that particular individual.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2016 @ 6:24pm

Insulting the President
You think the Thai government is special? HA! If you insult the President of Germany you will end up in prison for no less than 3 months to up to 5 years. The insult must happen publicly, or in an assembly, or through writing.

So given I am German and that this is writing if I were to say, in theory, and these following words are just an example of what not to say: The President of Germany is a....
Honestly, I am afraid to say what I think of him because I really don't want to end up in jail because the honored Judge Wilhelm Gerhard recently said,paraphrased, that people are not subject to be protected from harm by the German Gov when in prison and are kind of supposed to be raped.
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- That One Guy (profile), 2 Nov 2016 @ 6:37pm
  
  Re: Insulting the President
  No worries, my above comment can be applied to any person in a position of power/authority who makes it illegal to insult them, meaning their own actions are the greatest insult that can be delivered to such 'delicate' children pretending to be adults.
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- Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2016 @ 5:19am
  
  Re: Insulting the President
  Does that include drawing a mustache on a picture of the German pres?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Nov 2016 @ 8:17pm

It's a good thing I don't believe in an afterlife, because if there was one King Bhumibol Adulyadej would be snorting coke coated dingleberries out of Satan's throbbing rectum while stroking his tiny tiny weewee.

Fight me IRL, Thairants.
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sciamiko (profile), 3 Nov 2016 @ 1:54am

There is one oddity about Line's response to the Thai government, though:

"We ask the authorities seeking to obtain user data to make official requests through diplomatic channels and have so advised the Thai authorities," LINE added.

So, uh, if the messages are all end-to-end encrypted and there's no way for Line to access them to share with any government, why is it asking the Thai government to use diplomatic channels to make an official request?

Perhaps because asking for data about an account (eg. names, telephone numbers, contact lists, etc.) can be answered even though messages cannot be read.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2016 @ 5:16am

Y'know, there's such a thing as going to far when honoring the memory of Elvis...
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2016 @ 5:20am

Those with thin skin should seek careers in other areas.
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aerinai (profile), 3 Nov 2016 @ 5:29am

Royal Family Reunions
Man... I bet half the royal family is arrested every time there is a family reunion for insulting one of their siblings/parents/relatives...

/s
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2016 @ 5:54am

LINE has a history of making their apps kosher with censorship regimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_(application)#Censorship
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2016 @ 7:59am

Content cannot be read onLINE or offLINE
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Adam Gn (profile), 3 Nov 2016 @ 8:34am

Better use Skype instead
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2016 @ 9:06am

King of apes is dead. Long live king of apes!
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Tie Land, 3 Nov 2016 @ 11:58am

All members of the Thai Royalty are arseholes
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Nov 2016 @ 12:47pm

A great idea -- why didn't *my* nerds think of that?
-- HRH Hillary Rodham, Regina
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AppValley, 2 Jan 2018 @ 1:19pm

Your privacy is protected. *Slow claps*
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Tweakbox, 2 Jan 2018 @ 1:21pm

So is LINE abiding by the Thai Govt. law? Else-wise they will simply ban them in their country. So low-key we are getting spied what happened to freedom of speech?
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Test DPC, 2 Jan 2018 @ 1:23pm

Well end-to-end encryption is just an advertisement. By this point everybody should already know our data is being sold publicly.
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