Insane: China Expels American Journalists In Ridiculous, Unhelpful Spat About Covid-19
from the stop-this-nonsense dept
There has been some absolutely ridiculous sniping between the Chinese government and the US government over "blame" for Covid-19. For idiotic reasons, President Trump and his sycophantic followers started referring to Covid-19 as "The Chinese Virus," a racist term that hints at putting blame on Chinese people for the virus or even implying that those of Chinese ancestry are more risky than others. The administration also stupidly limited the number of Chinese staffers allowed at the US bureaus of Chinese news organizations, partly in response to China expelling three Wall Street Journal reporters over a headline it didn't like.
The Chinese government responded in an even more idiotic manner, trying to blame Americans for the disease.
China’s state media have been equally involved in spreading skepticism of the virus’s origin. Official Communist Party publication Xinhua has published several articles questioning COVID-19’s provenance, and the state-run Global Times wrote, “As the U.S. COVID-19 situation becomes increasingly obscure, the Chinese public shares the suspicion raised by Zhao Lijian that the U.S. might be the source of the virus and that the U.S. is subject [to] questioning and is obliged to explain [its role to] the world.”
And the latest move is that China has now expelled American journalists working for the three big US newspapers: The NY Times, The Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal. No matter what you think of the journalism done by any of these news organizations, and no matter what you think of the way either the US or Chinese governments have been handling the crisis, this is very, very bad.
We're at a point right now where it is more important than ever that there be open information and open communication about what is happening around the globe regarding Covid-19, and making sure that everyone has as accurate information as possible. Expelling journalists from either China or the US is extraordinarily short sighted and dangerous at this moment. The Chinese and American governments should set aside their petty spats for now. They can always pick it up back later when the world is not in so much peril (though, frankly, we'd be a lot better off if we stopped with all the pettiness between countries).
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Filed Under: china, covid-19, expelled, journalists, us
Companies: ny times, wall street journal, washington post, wsj
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Disasters shine such telling lights
Much like the response to being given power how people respond in a bad situation can shed so much light on their underlying character, and to say the two governments mentioned here are acting like petulant children would be an insult to children.
Lives are literally on the line, with the number of deaths only ramping up as more mature people are working to do something helpful about the pandemic and the two heads of state are busy in a pissing contest and pointing fingers. Whether china or america it would seem some things are the same, when you surround yourself with yes-men and are incapable of responding to criticism in a mature and adult manner it's only a matter of time before the tantrums break out, it's just unfortunate that both decided to throw their tantrums in a time and in a way that it could and likely will cost people their lives as a result.
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Re: Disasters shine such telling lights
More like it's the time you have to pay the piper for all your squandered credibility. Not hard to get people to believe either of these governments are both acting badly and lying about it.
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Re: Disasters shine such telling lights
"...and to say the two governments mentioned here are acting like petulant children would be an insult to children."
Not too surprised at "I Take No Responsibility At All" Trump. Him acting childish, immature, and thin-skinned is par for the course. Him being an entitled man-child is just a problem which starts and stops at individual level.
China, though, has been worshipping the concept of "face" for millennia. Arguably that is so much worse because it's an entire culture raised to the concept that shouldering the blame openly is a sign of unacceptable weakness rather than strength.
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Cold War tit-for-tat, redux?
In the 1980s, the Reagan Administration accused the Soviets of poisoning Laotian hill tribes (who sometimes fought for the US) with "Yellow Rain." I was skeptical at the time and remain skeptical today (though after 1991 we would learn that the Soviets had a huge biological warfare program, dwarfing the imagination of even the most fervid Cold-Warriors).
Soon after the "Yellow Rain" accusations, the KGB started spreading claims in Latin America and Africa that AIDS was a US germ-warfare program.
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Trump style strategy
Rumors spread faster than the virus. There is no vaccine for rumors.
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Re: Trump style strategy
Actually, there is, but there are sooooooo many anti-vaxxers.
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Re: Trump style strategy
There is no vaccine for rumors.
There is actually, critical thinking, fact checking and healthy skepticism, and while it won't guarantee that you won't fall for a bogus rumor it does drastically reduce the odds.
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Re: Re: Trump style strategy
Yes, that's a typical U.S. thought. If you managed to think critically once, you will be immune against rumors.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's no vaccine. It's lifelong medication you have to keep taking, and it's not like the U.S. government feels an obligation to provide its citizens with it.
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Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
AFAIK there's is no vaccine that gives a permanent protection, you have to renew your vaccine-shots on a regular basis. So, vaccines are a lifelong medication you have to keep taking, just like critical thinking.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
Not true.
There are several vaccines that give you life long protection. Off the top of my head, MMR, Hep B vaccine, and the Yellow Fever vaccine. I'm sure there are lots more.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
I'm afraid you are very wrong.
See https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/04/how-long-do-vaccines-last-surprising-answers-may-help-protec t-people-longer
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
"AFAIK there's is no vaccine that gives a permanent protection, you have to renew your vaccine-shots on a regular basis"
Are you a medical doctor? From where did you get this "knowledge"?
I'm curious, when did you last receive your polio shot or how about your small pox shot?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
Now, now. Don't taunt the anti-vaxxer. There's no reasoning with them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I'm all for vaccines but against people saying stupid shit that's has no basis in reality.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
Go to https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/vaccines-diseases.html and you'll find out where I got my information.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
I assume you are not a medical doctor of any type, neither am I.
When did you last receive a polio shot or how about a small pox shot?
Are these vaccinations no longer effective or the vaccination is not needed due to herd immunity?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
How is that relevant to my assertion?
I have provided links with factual information on how vaccination deteriorates over time which was my original assertion. If you still think my assertion is wrong, please provide links to factual information that proves that a one-time vaccination gives life-long protection. My guess is that you can't.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
Sorry for the confusion but the original comment to which I replied included "you have to renew your vaccine-shots on a regular basis".
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
"Are you a medical doctor? From where did you get this "knowledge"?"
That's actually basic biology. Eventually your body stops producing antibodies against anything it has not regularly encountered - although the lifespan of a certain antibody template is usually measured in decades.
There's plenty of evidence that we are being more than a bit optimistic about the state of our immunity against a number of the diseases we're routinely inoculated against, and should probably add a refresher shot sometime around our 40's or 50's.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
I have an issue with,
"you have to renew your vaccine-shots on a regular basis".
If the offending virus is extinct why would one need such a booster?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
"If the offending virus is extinct why would one need such a booster?"
While many diseases have been virtually eradicated, very few of them are actually "extinct".
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Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
Pity there's no vaccine against Trump.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
From what I understand from some quarters, the electoral college was meant to be that to some degree, but it definitely didn't work.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trump style strategy
I can't wait until it doesn't work again.
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Re: Trump style strategy
"There is no vaccine for rumors"
Ask your doctor if rumors are right for you.
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Was the Spanish Flu from Spain?
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Re:
No, it came from Kansas. And the name Spanish Flu was derived from the song Naples Soldier (which at the time was considered catchy).
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Re: Re:
The Devil came from Kansas. Where he went to I can't say
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I hear he went down to Georgia.
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Racist?
As far as we can tell, COVID-19 originated in China. How the hell is it racist, then, to refer to it as a "Chinese virus"? It's a perfectly accurate description--it describes where the virus came from. It makes no assertion about the brutal totalitarian regime ruling the nation of China, about the people of that nation, nor about people of Chinese descent.
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Re: Racist?
"It's a perfectly accurate description"
Perfect? Accurate? Description?
It is none of these things now is it?
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Re: Racist?
"As far as we can tell, COVID-19 originated in China"
There's evidence to the contrary, what we do know is that the first documented case in humans was there. That's a different issue. But, so what? People don't refer to bird flu as Hong Kong flu or Ebola as African flu. Why the distinction here? Remember, Spanish flu didn't come from Spain, but it had many negative effects on the Spanish when it was called that.
"How the hell is it racist, then, to refer to it as a "Chinese virus"?"
In isolation, nothing. In context with the history of what the people calling it that have been saying previously against the Chinese, along with the actions taken as a result of calling it that, plenty.
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Re: Re: Racist?
West Nile, MERS (middle eastern respiratory syndrome), German measles, etc.
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Re: Re: Re: Racist?
More racist diseases, awesome.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Racist?
How is it racist to describe the virus based on where it originated?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Racist?
Again, it's not by default, in isolation. But, choosing to use that instead of official names COVID-19 or Novel Coronavirus does say something about why you might make that decision. Especially since the express reason why the medical community has started using less geographically or otherwise specific names is to bypass the regular negative actions toward the described community.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Racist?
pfft.. we should call it the American Military Virus. The Chinese government say it came from the U.S. Military, I for one believe them... horrible Americans! You assholes are all racist, homophobic, xenophobic... etc - phobic.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/13/asia/china-coronavirus-us-lijian-zhao-intl-hnk/index.html
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Racist?
One rolls off the tongue a lot better than the others. I try to say COVID and half time end up saying “corvid” and then have to correct myself as my friend wonders why I started talking about crows.
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I bet you’d be pissed as hell if the virus originated here and everyone started calling it “the American Virus”.
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Re:
Not at all. I'm not sure why you would think that.
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Re: Re:
So, you'd be fine if the Chinese state media ignored the official neutral naming standards and invented a different name purely to rally racist support for extreme anti-American viewpoints?
I somehow doubt that.
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Re: Re: Re:
Well, to be fair, some in the Chinese government ARE actually blaming the U.S. They are not assigning a name to it, but that's just semantics.
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Re: Re: Re:
"to rally racist support for extreme anti-American viewpoints?" .. and that is the exact reason that they are blaming the U.S.
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Re: Re: Re: Racist?
Yes, plenty of those names predate current standards. So? There's plenty of naming conventions that used to be acceptable that we now avoid.
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Re: Re: Racist?
Is it racist enough for YOU yet? Propagandized fully, or is their room for more conspiracy theory in your conspiracy theory oriented mind
(you hypocritical conspiracy theory oriented useful idiot dumbass perspective only enables Zionists and the Catholic Church)
PaulT: There's evidence to the contrary, what we do know is that the first documented case in humans was there. Or, because of S military spergs, having "romantic accidents"
Lol
In local language,um, that means that Chinese Intel has footage of US pigs cops , and . mil spergs on film, fucking the local girls ( who are worth every penny).
Lol.
America is so FREE!
So free that the US/FVEY gay bitches come here to entrap the Chinese and other straight bitches.
Both of these tribes of heroic US "service members" are attempting to catch other US military intelligence and standard service members burying their faces in unregulated vaginas.
Fuck yeah.
Vaginas!
(PaulT is an idiot, useful only in Spain)
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Re: Re: Re: Racist?
...and you wonder why I think you're either not fully in control of your sanity or are a pathetic waste of skin for whom pretending to be an asylum inmate is your only outlet.
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Re: Racist?
Don't worry, it's racism.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/488276-kellyanne-conway-says-its-highly-offensiv e-to-refer-to-coronavirus-as
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Re: Re: Racist?
I'm not going to click, but I will just note what I said above - the term itself may not necessarily be racism on its own. But, the choice to use that term instead of the two more widely accepted standard terms that don't mention a race or country might well be racist.
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Re: Racist?
"As far as we can tell, COVID-19 originated in China. How the hell is it racist, then, to refer to it as a "Chinese virus"?"
It is when few other pathogen in modern times has been referred to with a national origin code, given that COVID-19 has a perfectly usable name already. And even moreso when the administration employing the term is currently selling the citizenry on US-China tension.
It's a bit like trying to spell the word "black man" with one n and two g's. You won't assume the wording was used without malice.
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For once I agree with Trump
Several Chinese officials have floated a conspiracy theory that the US Army is responsible for spreading the virus in Wuhan during the military games in 2019. Iran has also jumped on the bandwagon, and Russia has blamed the US and now the UK.
All 3 of these countries have problems with the truth and like to rewrite the narrative. I thought TechDirt was about getting the truth out there. I don't advocate racism, but to remind people where this whole mess started.
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Re: For once I agree with Trump
"All 3 of these countries have problems with the truth"
But the good ol' us of a is entirely truthful now aren't they?
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Re: Re: For once I agree with Trump
WHATABOUT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Shut up idiot. Just because one does it doesn't mean others are justified for doing it, nor does it mean the original is justified either. If you are waiting for the perfect person to explain everything justifiably to you: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." You'll be waiting a long time.
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Re: Re: Re: For once I agree with Trump
Please explain your comment.
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Inside every “but” is an asshole.
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Re:
Childish, but...
https://imgur.com/gallery/6sPrzh
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Much like 'I'm not sexist but...'
I don't advocate racism, but...
Just a tip for the future, if you ever feel the need to say anything along those lines maybe pause and rethink what you're about to say, because nothing good ever follows that phrase.
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Re: Much like 'I'm not sexist but...'
And, nothing good ever follows your knees, jerking like a knee jerk, either.
Knee. jerk. for a reason.
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Re: For once I agree with Trump
"All 3 of these countries have problems with the truth and like to rewrite the narrative."
We take for granted that China, Russia and Iran are going to lie on most issues. It's the background understanding we have after having them doing exactly that for decades.
When the self-appointed leader of the free world does the same it should be a friggin' sensation. A black mark.
But yes, we could always put the US in the same slot as the three other nations you mentioned and stop expecting anything other than what they do. Would this make you feel better?
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Re: Re: For once I agree with Trump
"But yes, we could always put the US in the same slot as the three other nations you mentioned and stop expecting anything other than what they do. Would this make you feel better?"
That sadly seem to be the prevailing attitude with lot of people, as I've mentioned before. There's no longer the will to be the best or improve, so long as they can point to someone worse, there's no need to even try. Which is possibly why the "leader of the free world" is an incompetent, bankrupt reality TV host who doesn't mind spreading deadly false information during a global pandemic, rather than someone capable of leading during a crisis.
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why
I understand cheap labor because of global competition (and Americans wanting $20/hr minimum wage), but why are 80% of our pharmaceuticals manufactured in China? Oh yeah, GREED.
I hope no one else dies from Corona AND I hope that when the dust settles, we completely divest in China. Why put all our eggs in 1 cheap labor basket? Why not spread the love of cheap labor around to Mexico, Vietnam, some African countries, some South American countries...
-WHY INVEST IN A COUNTRY WHO'S GOVERNMENT IS COMPLETELY OPPOSED TO YOU???
Are we buying North Korean made military equipment? NO, because we know that the North Korean government hates us -- why not use this same logic in relation to the Chinese government?
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Re: why
"Why not spread the love of cheap labor around to Mexico, Vietnam, some African countries, some South American countries."
Interesting why you ask that, rather than why the US based corporations who own the stuff don't invest more in their own back yard...
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Re: Re: why
read it, Paul.
The US companies can't invest in their own backyards because of "Americans wanting $20/hr minimum wage" -- hence the desire of these corporations to find cheap labor. If the US companies move their manufacturing back home, you're gonna have to take a pay cut. Can you handle it?
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Re: Re: Re: why
"If the US companies move their manufacturing back home, you're gonna have to take a pay cut. Can you handle it?"
Not being in the US, sure. It's just interesting to see someone bemoaning them supporting one country over another, when by your own admission they're putting profit above the rights and needs of Americans either way.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: why
I'm suggesting that they divest in China, and INSTEAD OF PUTTING ALL EGGS IN 1 BASKET, invest in multiple cheap labor countries for several reasons.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
"China's government hates us"
Lots of governments hate you.
"if there's a natural/health disaster in 1 cheap labor country, you shift manufacturing to another"
Screw the people in those countries who end up depending on the jobs so long as Americans get cheap shit, right?
"Americans want cheap prices, but high wages = impossible"
But, since that's subsidised by Wal mart paying so low their workers have to claim welfare even though they work full time (to give one well known example) I'm not sure how the answer is to ship jobs off to a different 3rd world country whose government may or may not hate you in 10 years.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
"yoooou want it all but yoooou can have it"
Paul you want the jobs to return to the US, but you personally don't want to work for the pennies on the dollar that the Chinese worker is paid. I'd love for the jobs to return also, but that genie is not going back into that bottle because:
-no American is willing to work at the same hourly wage as a Chinese (cough-prisoner-cough) worker
-no American company is able to compete against the other international companies if it's entry level employees start $20/hr.
It's not just American company vs. American company anymore, we have to also compete against other International companies now.
Until all cheap labor countries are no longer exploited, (because they've since also become expensive labor countries - a.k.a. that vein has been completely tapped), all companies will be seeking cheap labor and automation.
Again, my question is: WHY SEEK CHEAP LABOR IN ANY COUNTRY WHO'S GOVERNMENT IS VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED TO YOUR EXISTENCE WHEN YOU COULD INSTEAD DIVERSIFY YOUR CHEAP LABOR INTO OTHER COUNTRIES?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
"Paul you want the jobs to return to the US, but you personally don't want to work for the pennies on the dollar that the Chinese worker is paid"
I don't want to work in the US, that's for sure.
But, since you're too stupid to understand my location, your emotional and idiotic rant after that can be easily ignored.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
I don't want to work in the US, that's for sure.
You would get along well with our liberals. They don't want to work either.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
"You would get along well with our liberals. They don't want to work either."
I do love that cliche. You guys seem to harp on about it a lot. Well, until you need to switch to the "ivory tower liberal elites" narrative, without understanding how stupid you look for arguing both. Meanwhile, the biggest welfare queens tend to be white people in red states...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
Aside from the fact that your comment is incredibly racist towards white people; If you combine all non-whites together, and compare them against minority recipients, your wrong.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
.. bad wording.. If you add all minorities up and compare them to whites, your wrong.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
Provide your figures, please.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
Absolutely;
https://checkyourfact.com/2018/10/18/fact-check-whites-medicaid-food-stamps/
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
Hmmmm. Apart from the fact that I don't recognise the source (is it valid, or the first one of Google you found that agree with you?), proportionality is a different argument to the one you originally made. Yes,there is disproportion there, explained easily by historical and socioeconomic factors, but there are less minorities than whites claiming, even by your own figures.
But, what's your argument? If your argument is that welfare recipients don't want to work (as you originally claimed, and is demonstrably false given how many claim while working full time), then by your own figures that means more white don't want to work, right?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
"is it valid, or the first one of Google you found that agree with you?"
I think it's valid. I would love to give you facts off the census web site, and to be honest, I've spent a half hour on their site looking for the information.. They are not very forthcoming on the data, that or I'm simply not smart enough to find it. I have nothing to gain or lose by being wrong, and If I am wrong, I have no problem admitting it.. There's just not a lot of data out there compiled to pull from aside from a couple of "fact checking" sites. I wish I could find more as I find it incredibly interesting.
"But, what's your argument?"
Fair question. You said;
"Meanwhile, the biggest welfare queens tend to be white people in red states..."
I found your statement interesting, so I decided to see if you were right. What little data I could find, proves that your only partially correct. If you compare whites against everyone else individually, you are correct. But if you compare white vrs Non-white, you are wrong.
Really I don't have anything to gain either way. I was bored so I decided to fact check your statement.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"I think it's valid."
Any reason for that?
"I found your statement interesting, so I decided to see if you were right."
Yet, you apparently ignored half my statement, and applied a bunch of caveats to ensure your own findings were correct (see, for example, you ignoring the race unreported numbers).
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That’s a bullshit argument and you know it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"I think it's valid."
You think it is a valid source of information, why not attempt to validate your opinion? Finding and comparing other sources for the same story might led to a better understanding - just sayin.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
"your wrong"
Aside from your spelling issue ...
Red states; have more poverty, contribute less to fed than they get
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
Yeah, that's the part of what I was referring to that was being deliberately missed. If you look at states that take from the federal government, those tend to be red states vs. blue states that tend to be net contribtors. There's factors that cause that of course, ranging from industry type to population distribution, but net "takers" tend to be red on a per state basis. Meanwhile, although there is a per capita discrepancy that skews toward minorities, the amount of overall welfare given to whites is higher than other demographics.
Hence, the reason why I responded to the idea that welfare recipients are democrats who didn't want to work with derision. It's a handy cliche to sell to Trump fans who want to believe that "urban welfare queens" are the ones claiming welfare, but chances are the person making that claim is getting more handouts themselves, even if they don't realise it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
I see an awful lot of so called conservatives that not only do not perform their assigned duties but go out of their way to mess up the works. For example, the present us administration.
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Modern Republicans would rather see the government shrunken small enough to be killed — by Trump, no doubt! — than admit it does anything good for anybody.
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Re:
And now I read there are several (prob more) senators who dumped stock prior to the outbreak while proclaiming it was a hoax.
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Re: Re: Re: why
"The US companies can't invest in their own backyards because of "Americans wanting $20/hr minimum wage" "
Bullshit - and of course you have ample data in suppost of your allegation.
Many of them have learned that outsourcing is not really that much cheaper.
Are you an economist?
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For what reason should wage workers take a pay cut when they’re the ones doing most of the work that keeps the companies they work for running? For what reason should Jeff Bezos be allowed to “earn” another billion dollars but his lowest-level employees be “allowed” to earn a minimum wage that doesn’t even cover the cost of living?
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But Stephen, if a person can't make more money in a year than many people make their entire lives what would even be the point of being successful? Clearly the pay of those at the top of companies must be protected at all costs, even if that means those at the bottom have to take a pay cut to make it happen, anything else is just crazy commie-socialist talk.
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"For what reason should wage workers take a pay cut when they’re the ones doing most of the work that keeps the companies they work for running?"
I could spend all day giving you reasons. I'll just say this; Your question assumes the worker is entitled to the job at all. They are not. If a company can't turn a profit, or enough of a profit, then they will simply shudder, and move it to where they can. China is more than willing to supply the world with goods made at slave labor wages. The U.S. is a paradise comparatively speaking. Your anger is misplaced.
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"Your question assumes the worker is entitled to the job at all"
Entitled? Did you mean to use the word "qualified"?
Why and/or how is someone entitled to a job? Are you thinking of the trump children and how they are entitled to "jobs"?
"If a company can't turn a profit, or enough of a profit, then"
.. then they can simply go out of business ... it is not the federal governments job to ensure the success of bad business models.
Why are grifters and cozeners referred to as entrepreneurs?
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My apologies. I thought I was speaking with someone with some rudimentary knowledge of how an economy actually works. Now that you've established how much of an idiot you are, I'll move along.
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How does a worker's feelings of employment entitlement, whatever that means, have anything to do with the economy? They feel that they are owed a job? Why is that and how is it part of a working economy?
Rudimentary, actually works ... whatever you say.
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Give me three…no, wait, three ain’t enough, man.
Give me five exceptionally good reasons why wage workers should be paid less than a living wage and corporate executives should be paid millions upon millions of dollars when the wage workers are the people who stock shelves, run registers, clean bathrooms, cook meals, and do everything else that keeps a business up and running so it can even turn a profit for its corporate owners.
Because the last time I checked, it’s those wage workers that are sacrificing their health to keep grocery stores, pharmacies, restaurants, and other essential businesses open and running right now. Is Jeff Bezos working in an Amazon warehouse? Because I don’t think he is. And I don’t think whatever he’s doing right now is more important than what a grocery store cashier is doing right now.
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"And I don’t think whatever he’s doing right now is more important than what a grocery store cashier is doing right now."
Especially right now. I'm not sure what the situation is over there, but over here grocery store workers are wearing masks, gloves and hoping people don't infect too much of what they have to clean after hours. All so that people can get the food and supplies they need while they are otherwise just having to stay in their homes. Their thanks for all that might be that, if all those self-isolating people didn't spend enough money when they did eventually venture out of their homes, they might be out of work.
...and for that sacrifice, not only might they be denied a living wage (thankfully less of a problem here than the US), people like the guy above thinks it's a good idea to ask them to take a pay cut to protect their CEO's annual bonus package. It's a pretty sick argument.
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Workers are entitled to a living wage as a matter of morality as well as economy. Think about it: Henry Ford made a point of paying his workers enough to purchase the cars they made, and he was successful. Why?
The lesson is: in a consumer economy, the more workers earn, the more they have to spend on local goods and services. This causes the economy to thrive because each purchaser buys goods for themselves and their loved ones. If the flow of money is curtailed, businesses suffer due to lack of customers. Therefore allowing the top tier of managers to hoover up all the dosh and restrict the amount of money provided to workers is bad for the wider economy. The cost of manufacturing and service provision will go up but not that much; the more products the manufacturer or service provider produce or provide, the more money they make. There is no justification for slavery. Never was, never will be.
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"The cost of manufacturing and service provision will go up but not that much"
This is something that's always missed in these arguments, as well. Personnel costs are only a fraction of the overheads of most companies, and even then the cost per item or service does not depend on an individual's salary. Putting the wage for a McDonalds cashier up by $1 does not mean that your Big Mac is going to cost $1 more. It may go up by a few cents at most, but even this can be offset on the back end (for example, giving that cashier a living wage means they will stop having to claim welfare, so the tax bill is reduced).
The arguments against giving people a living wage always boils down to someone not really having an idea what their money is currently spent on, so they will essentially argue that people live in poverty, subsidised by tax dollars, so they avoid having to spend an extra 5c on things they don't really need. That's a little oversimplified, but it's what people are arguing, whether they realise it or not.
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Yes, that was the point I was trying to point out the troll had been projectedly ignoring, but worded much better.
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Jeff Bezos is probably hiding out in his fallout shelter.
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There are two great things about this.
Remember when things moved away from $20 America and the price went way way down? That $500 US fridge was replaced by a $125 Chinese Fridge. That $150 window ac unit was suddenly everywhere for $30.
If they were to bring in a all China Car, it probably would retail brand new for just under $5K.
*About the only thing that really got cheap was clothes, and most of those are not coming out of China. Go figure that one out.
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"Remember when things moved away ... "
Remember when Florida rebuilt after a hurricane and they used a lot of drywall purchased from China?
Remember when baby formula purchased from China was responsible for the deaths of many infants?
Remember when children's toys purchased from China were found to contain toxic levels of phthalates and phthalate?
Remember when toothpaste purchased from China contained a poisonous chemical used in antifreeze?
Pepper Ridge Farms remembers.
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Remember how greed made sure corporations bought Chinese goods so executives could keep more profits?
The guillotine remembers.
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The answer to that question is right there in the bit you quoted: "cheap labor". You can pay a Mexican $6.36/hour but the US minimum wage is $7.25/hr so you wouldn't be saving much. You can pay a South American $2/hour or less which seems like a good way to pay off those new factories pretty quickly. Vietnam is even cheaper but the added shipping makes S. America a cheaper bet. If you really want cheap manufacturing look to Africa. Some nations' minimum wage is less than $0.15/hour, even less than China's $1/hour.
If you have to build a new factory somewhere there is no economic incentive to do so in a higher-wage nation such as the US. If you sell your product globally even shipping is a negative in the US if you have to truck your goods 1000+ miles.
There's a lot more to it, of course, but you get the idea (I hope). The US is not economically the right place to build and operate for a global company.
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"The US is not economically the right place to build and operate for a global company."
It could be, and indeed used to be. But, corporate greed is the problem, not whichever country they choose to exploit.
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I clearly stated that greed was the issue (in all caps no less) in my original statement.
Again Paul, read.
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It used to be, yes, but it can't be again unless we heavily regulate corporations and raise tariffs through the roof. Not going to happen.
In the US we used to be middle class on a single household income and could live quite comfortably. Those days are gone, too.
Everyone knows it boils down to corporate greed.
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Indeed. Which is why the criticism should be on that, not on the people demanding a livable minimum wage or how easily the host country can be manipulated.
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"Which is why the criticism should be on that, not on the people demanding a livable minimum wage"
You seem like a smart guy, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that your not referring to the U.S. with this comment. The poorest of the U.S. people are considered middle class on the global scale. You should read the study done by the Brookings Institution. Forbes does a pretty good job of breaking it down, but read it for yourself. With a 3.6 unemployment rate, and per capita the second largest welfare system in the world, the U.S. is doing a VERY good job on it's economic, and social welfare systems. Still room for improvement, but on the global scale a very good job.
"The end result of all of this is that if we measure poverty in the US the same way that the World Bank does for the world then there's actually no poor people at all inside the United States."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/10/08/america-has-the-worlds-second-larg est-social-welfare-state/#5b4fa4a04c6f
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/27/by-global -standards-there-are-no-american-poor-all-in-the-us-are-middle-class-or-better/#4411e50e5cb5
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Tell that to people who work two full-time jobs for the privilege of mere survival.
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"Tell that to people who work two full-time jobs for the privilege of mere survival."
...who probably also claim welfare on top of that and are scared to get any kind of basic medical care. Doubly so in today's climate, where if they don't go to work sick they may not get to keep either job.
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"The poorest of the U.S. people are considered middle class on the global scale"
Yes, they are. But, if US corporations decided to screw those people over for a meagre saving on one part of their production cycle, the blame should not be placed on the people asking to be able to feed themselves where they live. Someone living in poverty in the US still needs to feed themselves, even if someone in Bangladesh can feed themselves on a far lower wage.
"With a 3.6 unemployment rate"
I've very suspicious of that figure. Does that include the people who are not employed for enough hours to avoid claiming welfare, or those who have been discounted from the figures because they are unable to either work or claim?
"social welfare systems"
I also laugh at anyone who says that the social welfare systems in a country where people are scared to get basic preventative medical care due to the cost has access to decent social welfare.
"The end result of all of this is that if we measure poverty in the US the same way that the World Bank does for the world then there's actually no poor people at all inside the United States."
Yes. That doesn't help them buy food or shelter at their local prices, though. Yes, a person in the arse end of India can live on a far cheaper wage. That's because their bills aren't anywhere near as high.
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"The poorest of the U.S. people are considered middle class on the global scale."
I suggest you do a little research on the subject.
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Obviously you didn't follow the links posted to the research ...
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Forbes magazine?
yeah - sure
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"US minimum wage is $7.25/hr"
That may be what the law says but if one were to include the taxation necessary in order to support such a meager wage, the number would be much higher. Paying a living wage is more efficient than having the government make up for the employer short comings.
In the absence of programs that help the low paid workers, employers are hard pressed to find anyone to work there because they can not afford to live there.
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Taxes aren't the problem. The US has some of the lowest overall taxes of all the 1st-world nations on Earth.
Raising the minimum wage isn't the answer either. If you raise the minimum wage the middle class suddenly earns that much less because prices for goods and services go up but the standard of living stays the same or decreases, even for those actually earning that minimum wage. You haven't helped anyone by raising the minimum wage except the wealthy who remain unaffected. All this does is accelerate the decline of the middle class in America.
The root of the problem is capitalism itself. Without socialist controls on capitalism it will run unchecked, eventually resulting in a tiny "elite" class lording over the 99.5% who live is relative poverty. No in-between. The US is on the cusp of this now.
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"If you raise the minimum wage the middle class suddenly earns that much less"
Which is part of the problem. People oppose a livable wage for the lowest, because they know the companies who have just been forced to provide that won't then provide similar for others.
"Without socialist controls on capitalism it will run unchecked"
No "pure" system is sustainable due to human nature, a mixture is always needed. Reaganomics convinced some people that corporations needed no such checks, and here we are. We can only hope the current situation exposes the need for real checks and balances before they are removed altogether.
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I certainly don't oppose a livable wage for anyone but raising the wage doesn't actually achieve that. It only makes the situation worse by driving more people into the "poverty" category. We need to address the real cause of the problem rather than slapping infected bandages on open wounds.
How? I wish I knew...
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"It only makes the situation worse by driving more people into the "poverty" category"
That's only true if companies only raise their minimum wage workers and don't apply comparative raises above the board. It's true that if there's not any existing legal framework to force companies to do that then they might get away with it, but the solution is not to criticise the low-wage workers for demanding a living wage without having to register for welfare after their full time shift has finished.
The real problem is that any reasonable and easy solution has been rejected as "socialism" for the last few decades, so now potentially drastic and risky solutions are on the table.
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Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing lower income tier workers from demanding a shot at a decent life. All I'm saying is that raising the minimum wage is not going to achieve that.
No employer suddenly gives their entire payroll a 15% wage boost when the minimum goes up by 15%. They follow the mandate of the law and pay 15% to their minimum wage employees and nobody else (except the CEO who gets at 50% bonus cause he's so awesome).
When you raise the minimum wage, yes, those workers suddenly earn more than they did yesterday. That sounds great but it takes all of 3 days for that cost to be passed on to the public in the form of increased prices. Suddenly those minimum wage workers are right back where they started and everyone who earns more than them has seen their standard of living decrease proportionally. The end result over enough such cycles is the disappearance of the middle class.
The only suggestion I can offer that might make a difference is uber socialist: Cap executive pay at some percentage of the company's net profit (not gross revenue, that's far too easily manipulated) that would prevent CEOs and other C-level execs taking home hundreds of millions per year for a bloody desk job. Nobody's job performance is worth that much. Mandate that a company may only retain X% of its profits and the rest must be paid to its employees. Also cap stock market earnings, to include all forms of financial trading, and cap it on gross earnings, not net P&L. In fact, do away with write-offs of any kind apart from the standard deduction.
The above is never going to happen in the USofA but it's the only way I can see to reverse the damage of the last several decades. Something has to be done to put more money back in the hands of those who actually made that profit possible. The alternative, the path we're on now, has no non-dystopian outcome. Little "look, I'm doing something!" attempts to bandaid the problem such as raising the minimum wage sound and feel good but they only make the problem worse.
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"That sounds great but it takes all of 3 days for that cost to be passed on to the public in the form of increased prices"
Frankly, so what? If the increased payroll is to give the people doing the work enough to live off without resorting to welfare, you should swallow the higher prices. If the middle class is dependent on screwing over the lower class for cheap consumer crap, they don't deserve to exist in the way they currently do.
"The only suggestion I can offer that might make a difference is uber socialist"
Actually, it's not. But, the fact that you've been programmed to think that such a reasonable measure that's already in place in a number of countries with a better standard of living that yours is some kind of taboo level of socialism says a lot about the level of discourse there.
"Little "look, I'm doing something!" attempts to bandaid the problem such as raising the minimum wage sound and feel good but they only make the problem worse."
Then, support those other options rather than attacking the people asking for a living wage, or pretending you have to be Soviet Russia to make the rich stop stealing all their wealth.
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You raise the minimum wage, prices go up to compensate. What have you actually done aside from cause inflation?
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"You raise the minimum wage, prices go up to compensate."
Not necessarily.
If that were the case, then how do the c-suite types keep getting huge increases in their income without there being any related inflation? Someone is not being truthful.
btw, the gov published inflation numbers are bullshit.
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Better yet cap executive remuneration, the whole package including shares etc, at some multiple of the lowest wage paid by the company, or any of its contract staff working for it.
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Excellent. Good luck finding executives.
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"Excellent. Good luck finding executives."
Popular refrain but it is based in an alternate reality.
I can destroy a successful corporation just as easily as anyone else, why not give me a shot at the bonus bucks?
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allow any level of exec pay but cap at some multiple of the lowest pay (including hourly) with mechanisms to reduce gaming by sub contracting, options etc
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That’s because the rich motherfuckers sitting on top of the pile of gold that is their corporate profits don’t want that pile getting any smaller. They could pay their employees more money and not need to raise the cost of goods and services if they were more willing to stop being money-hoarding assholes. Or do you believe any person needs to have a net worth of a billion dollars?
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"Or do you believe any person needs to have a net worth of a billion dollars?"
I don't believe that I should take from and redistribute, cap, or otherwise hamper anyone from reaping the fruits of their labor. Does that mean Billionaires will exist. Yes it does. IMO; If you cap wealth, limit it, or otherwise take the fruits of ones labor simply because they were/are successful, you remove the drive to become successful.
Why the fuck would I work my ass off only to hand off what I've earned? I don't work for charity. I won't stop YOU from working for charity if that's your wish, but you don't get to make me do the same. If for whatever reason you do, don't be surprised when I pack up my business and take it elsewhere.
Bernie Sanders is a millionaire. I would consider him a "rich motherfucker". I don't see him just giving his money away. How about Hillary.. who needs 50plus million? How about Biden? He's worth around 10 million, I don't see that rich motherfucker giving his money away. Who gets to pick the amount, and who decides what to take from whom? Who gets to pick the winners?
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"I don't believe that I should take from and redistribute, cap, or otherwise hamper anyone from reaping the fruits of their labor"
What about the billionaires who are getting far more than their labours should reap? The argument isn't that someone taking a decent cut after their small business cashes up should pay everything they earned. It's the fact that some CEOs earn more before the end of January 1st than most of their staff will see all year, yet it's the lower ranks who are being told to sacrifice during hard times. It's the fact that someone will be paid a fortune for moving imaginary numbers around, yet the people who help the most vulnerable in society can't pay their own rent.
"Why the fuck would I work my ass off only to hand off what I've earned?"
Because you live in a society and ,therefore, you already willingly do this for a great many services, some of which you benefit from greatly. Some of which (e.g. healthcare) you pay out the ass for in order to get private coverage yet don't get anything at all in return, while socialised countries pay less and get more. The question is where the lines are drawn, not the concept of you doing it.
"Who gets to pick the amount, and who decides what to take from whom?"
That is a good question. But if you think the 3 people you just named are among the richest in government, close to the richest in society or would not willingly give up some part of their income if other millionaires would make the same agreement, you're delusional.
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You partially missed my point. Normal, customary-necessary taxes aside; Who gets to pick the winners? I agree that Government is needed. I agree that taxation is needed. But the top 10% already pay more than the bottom 90% combined and the top 1% pay 37% of all income taxes.
How much more do you take, and does it stop there? Who gets to pick the number? What happens when the rich pack up their shit and leave? Ask New York how that's going for them.
All evidence points to the fact that we ALREADY tax the shit out of the rich. But it's not enough I guess, how much IS enough?
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"the top 1% pay 37% of all income taxes."
...and how much of the income do they hold? That's a major red herring argument. If one group holds the majority of the wealth, they should pay the majority of the taxes. Plus, the effect on each group is different. Raise taxes on the rich to pay the poor, they may have to go without some luxuries, though even that's not guaranteed, they'll likely just move some investments around to make up the short fall. Raise them on the rest, someone has to choose between paying their rent or food, they can't do both.
"How much more do you take, and does it stop there? "
That, of course, is the real question. But, effective tax rates are far lower on the rich than they were when the US was at its most prosperous, while the effective wage for the lower classes has stagnated for decades.
"All evidence points to the fact that we ALREADY tax the shit out of the rich"
But, you don't. Not proportionately, and not by historical standards. Look at some actual figures some time.
"But it's not enough I guess, how much IS enough?"
Enough that 1% of the population don't hold 90% of the wealth while some people die of hunger in the wealthiest country in the world.
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"If one group holds the majority of the wealth, they should pay the majority of the taxes."
They already do. You just want more. Again, how much is enough?
"Raise taxes on the rich to pay the poor, they may have to go without some luxuries, though even that's not guaranteed, they'll likely just move some investments around to make up the short fall."
You are completely wrong. They won't "pay" more. We the people will "pay" more. The rich, through the companies that the control, are simply going to transfer that additional cost into the products that they sell, and the wages that they pay. If you take more from the rich, they will raise the prices of their products to compensate, or simply move their business out of the reach of the taxing government. Then where will we be? Instead of getting more, you get nothing.
"But, you don't. Not proportionately, and not by historical standards. Look at some actual figures some time."
All evidence to the contrary. We have tax brackets here in the U.S. The more you make the more as a percentage we take. The rich already pay more as a proportion to what they earn. It is a fact that cannot be disputed.
I think what your saying is that we should tax the rich based on the money they hold in their accounts. That not only should we get a portion of what they make, but also what they hold.
To that I say this; Most rich people don't sit at home on their giant piles of money like the cartoons show. It's invested in some way shape or form. That wealth is working for them, and the rest of us, through investments into companies that hire people, products that we consume, and in some cases governments that keep us safe. We already tax that money with capital gains, real estate tax, and an entire host of very imaginative methods designed to squeeze as much money out of them as we can.
So I say again. How much is enough?
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"Again, how much is enough?"
Enough so that people working full time jobs for the companies they own don't have to still get food stamps to make ends meet.
"They won't "pay" more. We the people will "pay" more."
You already do, you just do it through taxes, etc. rather than prices of the Wal Mart shit you buy from them.
"We have tax brackets here in the U.S."
Yes. You might want to look at how much the higher brackets were taxed in the past compared to now.
"Most rich people don't sit at home on their giant piles of money like the cartoons show"
No, but most of it doesn't make it back into the economy either.
(I see you've thoroughly bought into the trickle down crap that was shovelled by Reagan, but the reality is you're supporting more money being taken from you while attacking those who suffer as a result.
"So I say again. How much is enough?"
Again, as much as is necessary to stop swathes of your country living in poverty without access to basic needs. It used to be that someone in your country could afford to support a family, even own a home, on a single income. Now you have families working full time while claiming welfare and barely able to afford the childcare they need to pay in order to earn their meagre living. There's something wrong with that picture, surely?
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You didn't actually say or produce anything of value with your argument. No facts, no data, and no sources. You just want to argue. I don't have time for this.
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Yeah, as I thought. Someone who bought into the propaganda doesn't want to discuss facts. I hope handing more of your country over to the people who are selling it out, at the expense of the people who are struggling to survive while working for them, is worth it for you.
I also note that you haven't actually asked for citations, you just argue to toss over your uncited opinion being different to mine. I'll just drop this one here, though:
https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2019/01/tax-rates-davos/581257/
That doesn't mean that raising the tax rates back to where they were would magically solve the problem, but it is somewhat notable.
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" the fruits of their labor"
Does this include any or all of their ill gotten gains?
Fruits of their labor my ass, yeah, they stole that fair 'n square.
For every honest business where this might apply, I guess there are probably twenty where it does not.
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"I don't believe that I should take from and redistribute, cap, or otherwise hamper anyone from reaping the fruits of their labor. "
Do you believe that monied interests are exempt from the law?
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"that cost to be passed on to the public in the form of increased prices. Suddenly those minimum wage workers are right back where they started and everyone who earns more"
aka: inflation
(the most cruel form of taxation)
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"The US has some of the lowest overall taxes of all the 1st-world nations on Earth."
Your claim is not correct.
If one were to conduct a study that included all taxation in each country and then compared them, they numbers would not be all that much different. In the us, taxation is hidden everywhere you go. To be a real comparison one would have to include all the little and hidden taxes we pay, excise tax for example. I am saying one would have to add up all the taxes; income, sales, capital gain, etc at the fed, state, county, city, levels. It may be difficult to asses some of these hidden taxes like the ones in your phone bill. It all adds up, almost 50%.
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"It all adds up, almost 50%."
...and some other countries pay more than that. They just get things like healthcare and workers rights included in the bill.
Meanwhile, most of the taxes you mention are levied on the lower classes spending money to survive. The billionaires hoarding most of the wealth don't pay much at all.
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I didn't even mention the double taxation of social security payments to the retired.
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No, you didn't. How does that change what I said?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
It doesn't
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
It's correcter than you think (yes, that was intentional). See: https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally Read the whole article, it's not long. It covers all of those little consumption taxes you mention.
This was a difficult realization for me some years ago when I was pissed off about having to write a large check to the IRS at the end of the year despite claiming less than the recommended number of deductions on my W2. I was sure the US was a tax hell and everywhere must be better. I did a little research (to find the real research) and learned that the US, relatively speaking, is a tax heaven. France is hell by comparison. I gave up my thoughts of leaving the country and started looking for the best state instead.
I'm not saying our government has been doing an awesome job (at any point in my lifetime), only that it's not as bad as you might think it is. There are certainly bigger problems to focus your ire on than high taxes.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
"Read the whole article, it's not long. It covers all of those little consumption taxes you mention."
The link you provided talks about taxation at the country (federal) level and although it does talk about taxation at lower levels of government such as state, county, city, HOA, etc but I do not find any indication that said data is included in their assessment of the taxation by country chart. Has anyone done an analysis of taxation of countries by income levels? Because the capitol gains tax in the us is very low, this may skew your perception - no?
"US, relatively speaking, is a tax heaven"
And this explains why the rich hide their goods in other countries because the us is such a tax haven - got it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
Why ignore the big boost that comes to the businesses as people sufdenly have money past foodd, rent, and utilities to spend? They don't need to raise prices as much as you think.
Remember - one doesn't become Libertarian by understanding economics.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
Why ignore the inflation that happens to cover the additional wages?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
You mean like that 5 cents per pizza that John Schnatter was complaining about?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
[Asserts facts not in evidence]
You sound like a climate science denier, with baseless accusations of scientosts "ignoring" the solar cycles they're accounting for.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why
"Taxes aren't the problem. "
I did not claim they were. I stated that business has problems hiring at low wages and obtained government assistance in the form of food stamps, rent control, etc so that the low wage workers could live within commuting distance from said employer. In addition I pointed out that this is inefficient.
"The root of the problem is capitalism itself"
I disagree. The root of the problem is human nature. Greed is common among those who lack self control.
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Re: why
"Why put all our eggs in 1 cheap labor basket? Why not spread the love of cheap labor around to Mexico, Vietnam, some African countries, some South American countries..."
Well, first, because China's labor isn't "cheap" - it's qualitatively better.
There are a few very enlightening responses on why China is the go-to place for manufacturing today by Tim Cook you probably need to read. Because the US today, no longer possesses the engineer skillsets required for delicate manufacture. Those jobs hasn't been popular in the US for decades and so by now no university teaches those skills.
You want a good solid tool&die manufacturer? In the US you couldn't fill a conference room with those, according to Tim Cook. In China you could pack football stadiums with them.
The problem about US outsourcing isn't cheap labor anymore. China has half of all the electronics manufacturing plants on their soil because they now hold all the skill and experience needed to produce quality.
The official result of decades of outsourcing is indicated by Tim Cook's public statement that an iPhone manufactured entirely in the US would now cost around 30k USD or above.
US corporations utilize china massively simply because today they no longer have another choice.
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Alling what Trump said is Racist. Guess what it did come from China. But since Trump said it, Now it's Racist. In fact, the Media was calling it the Wuhan Virus. Is that Racist? Once Trump said that it became Racist also. In fact, these days, what's not Racist? Almost the same as What's not made in China?
You leftist including this site has a really bad case of TDS.
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The problem with calling it “Wuhan Virus” or “Chinese Virus” is simple: It encourages racism and xenophobia towards East Asian people in general and Chinese people in particular. You can already see it happening in reports that people started avoiding Chinese restaurants in the U.S. once the spread of COVID-19 had become national news. It also assigns “blame” for the virus to a foreign country despite a lack of evidence that said country either released the virus into its own populace or intentionally spread the virus around the world.
Ask yourself this: How pissed would you be if the virus had originated in your home country and people started referring to the virus as “[x] Virus” (with [x] being your home country) as if your country intentionally tried to start a pandemic?
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Re:
"Alling what Trump said is Racist. Guess what it did come from China. But since Trump said it, Now it's Racist. In fact, the Media was calling it the Wuhan Virus."
^^Good grief Charlie Brown. I guess we accidentally triggered someone. Take a deep breath and meditate about your happy place.
I don't care if it is said in a bar room, in a newspaper, on TV, in a courtroom or in the White House.
It is a rude comment to make and anyone who makes it is (at that one moment) being a jerk. Period. No exceptions. End of discussion.
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Re:
"You leftist including this site..."
So in your opinion the president who felt inclined to name the gang of KKK and torch-waving sieg-heiling neo-nazis in the Charlottesville riots "Very Fine People" is not racist? How?
The person who is on record as saying "I'd never trust a black man with money"? Not racist?
That same person now pinning a national label to a virus which is already known to everyone as either "corona" or "covid-19"? Yes, he's being a racist there too.
That's not leftists - or anyone else - simply hating on Trump. That's all just you going balls to the wall to defend racism while not having the moral courage to stand up and admit it.
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Nuance
As usual, the truth is more nuanced. The Chinese like the Americans are not beyond gaslighting hyperbole and shifting blame.
Howevr, the journalism thing is separate. IIRC, it started with the Wall Street Journal (?) writing an op-ed piece calling China the "sick man of Asia". This touched a nerve in Beijing for several reasons - they are already sensitive to criticism, and especially sensitive about their history. The expression "sick man of Asia" was the description in the 1800's about how China was militarily unable to resist the European powers and was walked over several times, including the Opium Wars where Britain forced them to let the Brits sell narcotics across China, and trashing Beijing or forcing foreign zones on Shanghai. As an emerging power, with a lot of face to save, they don't want to be compared to their worst days over a century ago.
In response, China expelled 3 WSJ journalists. Washington retaliated by making China reclassify Chinese state media as diplomats not journalists and reduce their number from 160 to 100. (but duh, what are 160 people doing looking into American society? Must be media.) So now China has retaliated again by expelling more US journalists. Tease the tiger, you get scratched.
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Re: Nuance
They are all acting like children when the worlds needs adults.
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US Government officials were doing the same
Senator Tom Cotton was claiming it was a Chinese biological weapon, for example. A republican, of course.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/business/media/coronavirus-tom-cotton-china.html
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Conspiracy Theory
OK - here's another conspiracy theory.
China has actually started world war three, by dispersing thousands of containers across America that contain the COVID-19 virus, while at the same time claiming that the virus began as a normal outbreak somewhere in China and was spread to America by travelers. The Chinese victims of the original outbreak were purposely infected by the Chinese military to set the story in motion.
Once the manually spread pandemic gains a foothold in America, the Chinese press begins blaming America for the outbreak, knowing that eventually the origin of the American pandemic will be discovered to be America itself, although the cause - the thousands of Chinese students who have dropped small vials into the rivers and streams throughout the USA, will never be realized until far too late, if ever.
Make an excellent movie plot at least. :)_~
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Please stop spreading xenophobic conspiracy theories under the guise of “speculative thinking”. You’re not fucking helping anything or anyone by doing that.
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Re: Conspiracy Theory
"OK - here's another conspiracy theory."
I'd rather you people stick to facts rather than whatever masturbatory fantasy you can come up with to start another cold war.
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Re: PaulT, Techdirt, masturbation allusions
Onanists like Techdirts in-house troll PaulT really like that word; don't you, PaulT.
Have fun in Spain, I hear its raining COVID, and I hope you catch it.
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Re: Re: PaulT, Techdirt, masturbation allusions
We have only 5,000 more confirmed cases than the US, and we took the proper lockdown measures long before Trump was forced to admit you had a problem. So, I'll be fine, but watch what you do with yourself.
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Re: Re: Re: PaulT, Techdirt, masturbation allusions
Gee, thanks. Just today, we went outside (me and my communist cadre/family) without masks (except at obligatory checkpoints).
But here in the Communist Peoples Republic, we are laughing as you (religious) stooges who battled the AIDS virus so in-valiantly baton your hatches.
Really: the more of you that die, is the more of us that laugh, because of how these coincidences and their resultant cognitive dissonance do myth work against organized religions many plagues that Jesus, and Maimonides couldn't prevent, for some reason.
I actually do not wish you harm. Its only snark.
Best Regards,
ROGS
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You do, but I understand that you don’t want to be seen as a heartless bastard (any more than you already are).
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Re: Stephen T. Stone, rhymes with dumbass
No, heartless is me cheering on protesters in Charlottesville to gay bash people like YOU. I spent over fifteen years of my life PROTECTING people like you on a weekly basis.
That said:
Specifically, I could care less if you died (nor would I piss on you if you were on fire or a COVID-19 brain burning heatstroke), There are others in the community who ARE worth the effort. You are not one of them, whoever they are.
Yes, just tonight, I watched my daughters hamster run around in a plastic ball for over an hour and a half, while daughter slept soundly; after a day of buying a prosthetic device that would enable daughter to "pee like a boy," lol, because "Freudian Elctra/Artemis/ category unspecified, etc." and the resultant and utterly necessary (lovingly paternal) analogy that:
"sometimes the grass is greener..."
That alone is not proof that I am a gud and NOT heartless person, but it beats your existence on this planet by One father( just guessing, lol, you hateful little manchild: single mother, right?).
But wishing you death? Sure, why not, You fail on critical analysis repeatedly, which is why TD and its ADL/Israel lobby elected you "King without clothing."
Many would think I have performed a human service, edging eugenics along, for the sake of the future humans. Urging you and others here to just die.
But as we see repeatedly, death chooses the weaker specimens. Guess who death DID NOT choose?
Guess who death might choose?(did you follow the AIDS conspiracy theory at all? I was there close to Homo Ground Zero, with actual AIDS friends)
But it is more than YOU here. Do you only think that TD medallions are honor, or just useful idiot creating badges of stupidity? Have you ever practiced actual critical thinking?
Yeah-thats when the mobs mob up on real opinions and facts online, little gay pal. And you are their tool.
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Institute_for_Statecraft
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Re: Re: Re: Re: PaulT, Techdirt, masturbation allusions
"the more of you that die, is the more of us that laugh"
And you're wondering WHY you get short shrift and harsh language, ROGS?
"I actually do not wish you harm. Its only snark."
It's actually not. Not anymore than you can walk up to a jewish man, scream "sieg heil" in his face, and then get away with saying "Just kidding. lol. only snarking you".
"keep the "one meter ruel as if it IS religion, but use the two meter rule for true safety. COVID is airborn."*
Bit of a misnomer. COVID-19 is aerosol-carried, not strictly airborn. Meaning it gets carried and survives in small droplets of moisture let out by coughing and sneezing.
Arguably that is as bad, though, since early findings indicate it survives just fine for several hours, meaning the guy coughing on a bus has now contaminated all of the surfaces in said vehicle.
When outside then, keep your hands away from your face and avoid public transportation.
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Amorphous "Jewish man" aka "Golem"aka Claus D.
Its funny to watch you write out of your asscrack.
I mean: my friend Stanley could have used your help when the Feds and the ADLand the IRS and its associated Octopus were hunting him like a dog, and persecuting him for his analytical observations, and political associations:
https://forward.com/news/195134/how-stanley-cohen-went-from-orthodox-to-defending/
But your kind of Jew-cred seeking asshats are just ADL boilerplate white people and ADL useful idiots. There is no rational way to deal with you and your kind, which is why Holodmor was a logical option.
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China reacted in the way that... well, the way I expected China to, just not in the goddamn fucking dumbest way imaginable.
I get that the US is a sack of shit right now and China is angry that a Spanish scholar penned an article saying that the doctor who was punished for whistleblowing about the virus might not have been penalized if China wasn't such a dictatorship - but really, fueling conspiracy theories that the US invented the virus?
Reminds me of the chucklefuck who insisted "China's doing fine, human rights violations aren't all that, when the US goes under all us rich guys are moving to China or Australia, you fucking leftists"...
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Re:
"all us rich guys are moving"
adios
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Re:
Have you fixed the US prison system yet, or stopped prison rape, or is it still US policy to use rape as a tool of social control?
And-hows that health care system?
Here in China, Wuhan emergency hospitals are all closed, because the nation did an AMAZING JOB of containing the the spread of the virus. And, China fully covered the expenses of any stricken parties to the virus.
Maybe you want to engage with this factoid too:
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Institute_for_Statecraft
Ooops, wrong factoid (that link is to how FVEYs derailers and defamers abuse comment threads like Mike Masnicks here)
I meant to post how the US "meddling machine" spews disinformation, like that garbage you are spewing about human rights abuses in China.
Do you even know that the factoid you spew came from a right wing uber-christian Zionist, Adrian Zenz, who cited a "study" of 8 Uyghurs, and then, extrapolated that data into the lie "millions of Uyghurs in the CAMPS!!!!!"?
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claim s-us-ngo-researcher/
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"The coronavirus was made in China/US/UK" conspiracy theory is brought to you direct from the Kremlin.
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Re:
Wait... you mean that the same people who were falling for obvious lies about Brexit and Clinton, designed to cause conflict, are now falling for conspiracy theories from the same sources designed to cause further conflict?
I'm shocked /s
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Re: Toom1275
That is an asinine conspiracy theory in and of itself.
Russia is just one of many who can benefit from spreading the (already existing( disinformation.
Weak evidence does not make the case you are claiming.
What next, Israel and Israeli billionaires meddled in the Iowa caucus?!
https://www.mintpressnews.com/cybereason-israel-tech-firm-doomsday-election-simulations/263 886/
Or that British intel hacks from the Integrity Initiative love derailing parrots like you?
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/01/08/new-documents-reveal-a-covert-british-military-intelligence- smear-machine-meddling-in-american-politics/
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Re: Re: Toom1275
I'm not sure what's funnier, the fact that you think that "nuh uh" is a valid rebuttal, or that you think that some random theories nobody's heard of before from some random blogs nobody's heard of before is equal to a reputable news organisation reporting actual government research.
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Re: Re: Re: Toom1275
Thank you for never having children. You have done a GREAT service to the world.
(PaulT NEVER engages with evidence; it would/could only produce bad progeny, who cannot engage with evidence. In this regard, evolution is 100% correct. The scientific method will not miss you, and perhaps, saved your potential progeny from a lifetime of " Dad, why did I come out of a goats ass?)
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Re: Hi, I am Toom 1275, a DoD chatbot
Shaddup, you fake patriot.
https://thegrayzone.com/2018/08/20/inside-americas-meddling-machine-the-us-funded-group-tha t-interferes-in-elections-around-the-globe/
Your fake Kremlin theory only works on semi-edumucated rubes who trip over the differennce between "Emmaline, gremlin, and Kremlin."
You are such a 1953 fucktard.
Have a look at US PsyOps in re: Da Ebil Kremlins
https://thegrayzone.com/2018/08/20/inside-americas-meddling-machine-the-us-funded-group-tha t-interferes-in-elections-around-the-globe/
Amurrica so free, y'all!
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Good for China-two out of three off those rags are proven disinformation outlets led by lying, race supremacists and Mossadi Jihadis.
Like every lie that the western press and its DoD/JTRIG smear machine cooks up, and gets served by armies of military crisis PR trolls, fortunately, China has a handle on the conspiracy theory western dialectic.
There was this Big Lie that traveled the world, courtesy of the DoD funded"regime change" derailers (and religious zealots):
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo -researcher/
And now COVID-19.
What China DOESN'T NEED is those papers brand of destabilizing racist commentary that passes for news, after getting infected with the CIA-Israel Lobby virus in everything they write.
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Re:
Why are you spamming that shitty blog all of a sudden? Can't find anything remotely reputable to back up your claims again?
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Re: PaulT says Max Blumenthal is not reputable
That is an asinine conspiracy theory in and of itself, and British intel hacks and PR flacs from the Integrity Initiative just love derailing parrots like you:
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/01/08/new-documents-reveal-a-covert-british-military-intelligence- smear-machine-meddling-in-american-politics/
Russia is just one of many opportunists who can benefit from spreading the (already existing) disinformation.
And, your weak evidence does not make the case you are claiming.
What next, Israel and Israeli billionaires meddled in the Iowa caucus?!
href="https://www.mintpressnews.com/cybereason-israel-tech-firm-doomsday-election-simu lations/263886/
Either of these legitimate, award winning investigative news sources is more credible than any mainstream news you can cite.
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Wow, Max Blumenthal is "just a blog" lol
Your faith in mainstream media is remarkable for a DoD type persona/chatbot/derailing troll.
Oh, wait, no, we expect that of you.
Oh, yeah:
The Uyghurs! Millions in the CAMPS!!!!
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo -researcher/
From a study of exactly EIGHT respondents extrapolated into infinity, bandied about by religious nutters like you:
China doesn't need some hate-sperg crybully opinion like yours to keep it going "China Strong."
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Re:
"Wow, Max Blumenthal is "just a blog" lol"
Well, I assume that vague URLs I've never heard of posted by known idiots are blogs, anyway. Maybe I'm wrong on this occasion, but you don't normally stumble across actual sources, you usually depend on known liars.
I still don't know what you're blathering on about since I've never heard to whatever those things are meant to be (and no, I'm not clicking through to random links from a know bad actor). I just know that the story you're mocking from a known trustworthy investigative source reporting on an EU study has more credibility than anything you've ever claimed, hence my dismissal of your attempts to distract from it.
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Re: Re:
Have fun tonight, flagging it.
(still laughing at how many times you ramble on about "masturbatory fantasies", lol.
Poor left handed spergs....
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This one here
Quote: "Why are you spamming that shitty blog all of a sudden?"
Techdirts third (fourth?) favorite gatekeeper and comment troll thinks Max Blumenthals Grayzone is a "shitty blog."
Gotthat, Mike Masnick? These are the shitbags that you, and your in-house trolls and sysadmins promote.
Gotta love that Adlification and co-option of narrative, and its ripple effects, all the way to Spain.
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Re: This one here
"thinks Max Blumenthals Grayzone is a "shitty blog.""
No, I assume that any link you suddenly start spamming that I've not heard of before as if it's some kind of primary source is a shitty blog, due to your track record of posting links to laughably shitty blogs when faced with reputable evidence. If I'm incorrect on this occasion then mea culpa, but the track record is clear.
But, your obsessive need to be a complete dick with obvious signs of mental illness is still unblemished
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you are an absolute liar though
re: "due to your track record of posting links to laughably shitty blogs when faced with reputable evidence"
You are just a liar here, and since I first encountered you, personally, all you do is like most British intel trolls do: "Evidence, or GTFO!" and then never engage with evidence.
That's as old as the 911 truther/Tea Party disruptions by the neocon think tanks and other disinformation trolls from Integrity Institute, et al.
So engage or STFU. Are you calling Max Blumenthal "disreputable?"
He is as reputable as any I've ever quoted, with the difference being that you only and classically engage with sources that might gain you some Jewish cultural capital; absolute panderer that you are.
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Re: you are an absolute liar though
"Are you calling Max Blumenthal "disreputable?""
No. I've simply stated that I've never heard of that website before, you posted links to try and deflect attention away from the subject that was actually being discussed, and your track record is one of posting links to proven liars. If you happened to post a truthful source in your attempt to deflect then, bravo, you're improving. But, that's an unusual event in your history.
"He is as reputable as any I've ever quoted"
That's not a particularly high bar.
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Re: Re: you are an absolute liar though
PaulT hasn't heard of it= NOT REAL!!!!
Who gives a fuck what you have or haven't heard about. You are not very well read, in any topic that I can discern.
See this here, for my theory of who you are affiliated with, or play the useful idiot for:
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Institute_for_Statecraft
Just because you are too lazy to click the links doesn't mean that your personal grudges acted out here are either acceptable to "the community" or acceptable to society at large.
There is no special verified snowflake award for people who can convince PaulT to click a link to solid evidence (unless we count the other in-house trolls bhull, and SDM, and Wendy-works -for-an-NGO; and of course, that scurrillous shit poster Stephen T. Stone); nor is there a "too dumb to live" award for those who do what you do with your incessant trolling and derailing, while NEVER engaging with evidence of any kind, EVER.
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Re: Re: Re: you are an absolute liar though
"PaulT hasn't heard of it= NOT REAL!!!!"
Nope, it just means that the habitual liar linking to his site need to give more context, especially when he hasn't mentioned who the source it at all in the first link.
I know that having an intellectually honest argument is beyond you, but even you should realise that your benefit of a doubt for spamming random out of context links has well since expired.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: you are an absolute liar though
You haven't pointed to one lie I ever told.
But for the record, that form of morality goes out the window with a world that not only tolerates, but encourages and accepts armed propaganda, aka weaponized discourse, right?
Lulz.
PaulT, please take the big pink pill tonight. You are losing it.
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di...did...di...PaulT almost engage with EVIDENCE? WTF!?
PAulT (sort of) engages with evidence for the first time!
WTF?!
Quoting PaulT:"since I've never heard to whatever those things are "
This cannot be lost! The irony of "not the brightest bulb in the argument" is ironic.
PT, Journalists do NOT have to reveal their sources and especially to strange anonymous people on the internetz, and people like you who really do not give a shit of they are reading truth or slanted disinformation, and accept evidence only as long as it confirms your confirmation biases (like most of TDs in-house semi-religious, political troll brigade).
And-which link are you referencing? The Israel security firm tampering in our elections?
Or the British-FVEYs meddling in our elections and everywhere else? Or the US smear machine targeting people EXACTLY LIKE ME, here at Techdirt, et al.?
You might have noticed I posted a few links.
Remember: the ADL, its Chosen g_d squad zionazis and the Integrity Institute types troll this blog, and flag such information.
Here, let me look for those missing links....
Is it this one, about OMG!!! UYGHURS!!!CAMPS!!!! from the hidden(so-called community censored) post above?
*Good for China-two out of three of those rags are proven disinformation outlets led by lying, race supremacists and Mossadi Jihadis.
Like every lie that the western press and its DoD/JTRIG smear machine cooks up, and gets served by armies of military crisis PR trolls, fortunately, China has a handle on the conspiracy theory oriented western dialectic.
There was this Big Lie that traveled the world, courtesy of the DoD funded "regime change" derailers (and religious zealots [):<
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo -researcher/
And now COVID-19.
What China DOESN'T NEED is the NYTs brand of destabilizing, racist commentary that passes for news, after getting infected with the CIA-Israel Lobby virus in everything they write.*
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Re: di...did...di...PaulT almost engage with EVIDENCE? WTF!?
I'm still not entirely sure why you keep refusing to take the medication you so sorely need, nor why this particular site is where you go to have your psychotic episodes when you do, but I'm glad the current situation ensures the public at large are safe when you lose your grip on sanity.
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Re: Re: di...did...di...PaulT almost engage with EVIDENCE? WTF!?
PaulT, just a question: why do you insert the psychiatric meta-narrative into every discussion?
And then: you seem to know a lot about psychiatric drugs. Care to explain?
But I know a little bit^ about intelligence agencies, and professional derailing, using useful idiots, and also (a coincidence!) deploying the (weirdly outdated) jibe about medication*.
Care to explain, Paully (poor thing, named after the mythical Jesus' bed partner, Paul, aka Saul the tax collector, replaced in our modern drama with the psychiatrist on the states tit. Which reminds me of Alan Ginsberg sucking beatnik cocks, for some reason)
Fuck me! That free association shit is fatiguing and WRONG!!!
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Re: Re: Re: di...did...di...PaulT almost engage with EVIDENCE? W
"PaulT, just a question: why do you insert the psychiatric meta-narrative into every discussion?"
Because you insist to acting like a parody of a movie mental case, and that means that you either have a serious unmedicated condition or that you think playacting as one is a way to have a serious conversation. I'm being charitable and pretending you are crazy rather than stupid.
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re: Techdirt and psychiatric meta-narrative
I suspect you know a lot about the crazy v. stupid paradox. Please explain, but don't pantomime it this time(re:play acting)
In your theorem and postulationificationismisms, is there room for that you are both crazy AND stupid, or does the fact that you are clearly-to any who can see-stupid, rule out that you might be mentally disordered, aka in the vernacular crazy as well?
I mean, OCD comes to mind, considering the fact that you cannot help yourself but to reply to my every comment.
And, your comments about masturbatory fantasies a few threads ago, calls to mind some serious hand washing behaviors(and I had to rinse my eyes with bleach after reading your post that referenced your behavior).
Anyhoo, stay safe there in Spain, I hear that Holy water and 500 clay Golems with words scrawled on their foreheads(words like Tamam Shud) cannot wash away the sins of human contact with Shatans PLague, aka COVID-19, nor out-battle human conceit and stupidity(which we discussed, briefly above).
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Re: re: Techdirt and psychiatric meta-narrative
"you cannot help yourself but to reply to my every comment"
I'm on day 13 of lockdown and you pop up in my email every time you spew idiocy here. Boredom explains my actions, what explains your insane screeds?
"Anyhoo, stay safe there in Spain"
I will, we have a competent government and healthcare system that's doing great work with the pressures they have, and although some bad decisions have been made we don't have Trumpisms along the line of sacrificing lives to get the stock market back on track.
Plus, the vast majority of cases are a long way from where I am because the action taken managed to restrict a lot of them to Madrid. Not that I wish anything on Madrileños, but that was the epicentre here. It's nice to see that the action taken here has mitigated the worst. Meanwhile, the US now has the highest number of confirmed cases in the world, a population that's afraid to visit a doctor or take sick leave and multiple states that are mocking the idea of lockdown. I wish them luck, but I fear the picture will be far less pretty once we here in Spain are back to socialising with our peers.
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Re: Re: re: Techdirt and psychiatric meta-narrativen
The thirteens, lol. "day thirteen of lockdown".
Why didn't you menation that at day five? Or day Eight?
Thanks for that affirmation. and evidence.
Google "ROGS and thirteen", for an eye opener about "conspiracy theories"and gang stalking, and the number 13.
Its a real thing.
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Re: Re: Re: re: Techdirt and psychiatric meta-narrativen
"Why didn't you menation that at day five? Or day Eight?"
I'm not doing a countdown, I just answered your question - I usually have better things to do in with my life outside of work hours than argue with idiots on the internet, but since I'm unable to go outside and do anything more productive with intelligent, positive people, where I am.
"Google "ROGS and thirteen", for an eye opener about "conspiracy theories"and gang stalking, and the number 13."
Or... I'll just use the calendar and note that it was day 13 when I made that comment. If I were making it today, I'd have said day 16. If you want to apply your psychopathic theories to such a coincidence, that's on you.
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Well, yeah, the flu...
How many people die of the flu each year?
"A highly contagious virus, influenza sickens far more people than it kills, with an estimated 3 million to 5 million people becoming seriously ill yearly from influenza viruses. Worldwide, the flu causes an estimated 250,000 to 500,000 deaths every year, according to the World Health Organization (WHO)"
Honestly, you and others are using the COVID-19 politically, and that should be called out. I mean,
do you have any plans to mitigate the common flu?
And what are your plans for when (not if) these things happen mysteriously every year, at an increased rate?
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Re: Well, yeah, the flu...
Well, I'm not surprised you're the one coming in with idiotic questions that have been answered ad nauseum constantly over the last few months. Whatever it takes to distract from Trump's disastrous handling of the situation, huh?
Try reading any article on the subject written back when he was telling everyone it was a hoax.
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re: Psychiatric Meta-Narrative, hoaxes, and the Medical Mafi
Paul, I am on neither side, I hope you get that. Which, you do not.
But your adverse reactions to Trump ( and I have my own, but have come to appreciate his staunch and nostalgic faux-Americana) are unfounded.
Words are just words. Symbols and signifiers with significance outside their apparent meaning.
But that symbolic messaging magnifies when we send messages across time and space for the sake of national interests, and other so-called *free market enterprises."
If your faux-argument is that Trumps mafia including Bini Naziyahoo, Sheldon Adelson and the Macau Mafia are somehow worse than Haym Saban, Jeff Bozos, and the Ukrainian Oligarchs Mafia (because this is the actual discussion we are having about "American politics and political decisions") then say it openly.
Otherwise, whats your personal stake in the matter? Who cares which one of those mafias wins? Isn't your goal to just do whatever your fairly blank persona and legend "does" here and elsewhere? I mean, who cares which mafia wins, really.. Really
I have readTrumps words, sometimes before they go public-I know what his words mean. Do you, actually?
We might as well be discussing Harry Wu from 1995, and the Clinton cabals relationship with recent TD commenter Andrea XXX.
Its equally nebulous speculation on al of our parts, if at least you pull your head out of the mask, and admit that you are clearly, seldom engaged in, or willing to engage with evidence, or other material pertinent to these discussions.
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Re: re: Psychiatric Meta-Narrative, hoaxes, and the Medical Mafi
"Paul, I am on neither side"
Nobody neutral would be saying the things you do.
"But your adverse reactions to Trump... are unfounded."
No, they're supported by verifiable evidence of his own actions and the negative effects they have on your country.
"Otherwise, whats your personal stake in the matter? "
The US is still powerful enough that when they elect a multiple bankrupt reality show host who cares more for his own ego and perceived bottom line than the welfare of his citizens, it has an effect on the rest of us. Plus, I have enough empathy that I'm unhappy to see so many Americans die and suffer needlessly due to his poor decisions.
"I know what his words mean"
If you feel you have to interpret the words of the president rather than being able to take his public statements as they are presented, you already have a problem.
"Its equally nebulous speculation on al of our parts"
Again, no. I'm looking at the advice of the medical community, looking at how Trump's actions violate almost every recommendation they have made (all while telling people the entire thing is a hoax), then looking at how infection and death rates in the US are climbing as a direct result of the bad decisions made, and understanding how things like exponential maths and disease actually work. There's no speculation there.
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Re: Re: re: Psychiatric Meta-Narrative, hoaxes, and the Medical
re: "Nobody neutral would be saying the things you do"
Are you saying that neutral means taking a vow of silence? And, I never said I was neutral on anything. I said I am not on any side; and my last vote in American politics was for Obama, which I soon regretted afterwards, for many reasons.
So,for example, if the rabid, racist zionist lobby was paying me to say things, I would say rabid, zionist things. If the rabid, racist altRight lobby was paying me to say things, I would say rabid, racist altRight things.
But no one is paying me to say anything, unlike many of the actual sock puppets, trolls, ACs and others here at TD.
I say what I do because its a third path-a mocking indictment of bi-polar narrative because its nearly impossible as a decent American to do the right thing anymore, politically, or otherwise, because since Kennedy, there hasn't been a real president. Its all deep state bankster puppetry.
SO, I voted with my feet, and explore other systems of governance.
As for If you feel you have to interpret the words of the president, well, all words at that level carry coded meaning. Code as simple as virtue signalling, or otherwise directed at targeted audiences.
SO, anyone who DOESN'T interpret such things is a fool, and will not know where to put their stock portfolio when these mysterious things like C-19 just happen by pure coincidence.
As for the medical community, I am well aware that it/they are a swamp and a virtual mafia in their own right. I personally tend toward actual conspiracy theory on that point.
Because you are not a US person, and your information is more limited than mine, I am aware of the Tuskegee experiments, and many other medical mafia activities that cast the latest activity in doubt.
So, sometimes, the medical conspiracy is an actual conspiracy, as we see time after time after...
http://listverse.com/2017/08/18/top-10-conspiracy-theories-that-were-actually-true/
And so what if infection and death rates in the US are climbing?
That won't stop the next mystery flu will it? And who will find a cure for the common flu,(which claims hundreds of thousands of lives EVERY YEAR) anyways? Hell, we can treat AIDS and cancer, but not the common cold or flu. Why is THAT PaulT?
SO the question is: what is the wider arc of that narrative, and are you and others suggesting that all Americans-and the world-stay at home for a few months every year from this point forwards?
What a luxury. I wonder who will pay the mortgages, and so on? Certainly the WHO and the banksters have no emergency plan, or insightful recommendations for that.
You think that would be important, huh?
Lastly, I actually agree with Trump on things like this: “You know, you go into major hospitals sometimes and they’ll have two ventilators," Trump said. "Now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’
And so, yah, the medical mafia is every bit as wasteful as the military or other entrenched mafias in my country. And, Trump knows a thing or two about dealing with mafias. Probably more than you or me, but that's just rampant speculation on my part, lol.
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Re: Re: Re: re: Psychiatric Meta-Narrative, hoaxes, and the Medi
"Are you saying that neutral means taking a vow of silence? "
No, I'm saying that the thing you insist on saying are anything but neutral. You know the old saying - better be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt? There's no doubt here.
"these mysterious things like C-19 just happen by pure coincidence"
Biology is not mysterious.
"So, sometimes, the medical conspiracy is an actual conspiracy, as we see time after time after..."
Yes, and most of the time it's not. Do you have any evidence that there's a conspiracy happening this time, or are you just butthurt that your favourite gameshow host is being revealed for the incompetent fraud he is to the people who didn't realise it from all his pre-election escapades?
"That won't stop the next mystery flu will it? And who will find a cure for the common flu,(which claims hundreds of thousands of lives EVERY YEAR) anyways? Hell, we can treat AIDS and cancer, but not the common cold or flu. Why is THAT PaulT?"
Because you're using a mix of misunderstanding about the current outbreak, some lying about our medical capabilities on both sides and presumably dependence on ideas that have been explained over and over again over the last few months when people like you were delaying action on the current pandemic with the same stupid questions.
"SO the question is: what is the wider arc of that narrative, and are you and others suggesting that all Americans-and the world-stay at home for a few months every year from this point forwards?"
Again, if you'd stop with idiotic conspiracy theories and listed to what the medical community have actually been saying, this would all be clear. Unfortunately, you prevented action being taken before such drastic action was necessary, which means the ongoing issues will take longer to fix. But, once isolation has worked enough to take the R0 down to a level where the increased infection rates, incubation periods, death rates and so on down to level that can be dealt with on a mass level and where sufficient testing is available to identify and treat infected people without having to isolate the uninfected, things will return to normal.
"What a luxury. I wonder who will pay the mortgages, and so on? Certainly the WHO and the banksters have no emergency plan, or insightful recommendations for that."
Why would the WHO be involved in mortgages?
"Lastly, I actually agree with Trump on things like this: “You know, you go into major hospitals sometimes and they’ll have two ventilators," Trump said. "Now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’"
Yes, an outbreak of a pandemic that attacks respiratory function will increase the need for ventilators somewhat. He should have thought about that instead of telling people it was a hoax until they were needed by so many people.
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Biology is not mysterious? WTF?
Paul:
You obviously have totally disconnected from that first time you ever saw a vagina. Fuck Me.
Dude, biology is infinitely fucking mysterious to our species, until we remember that science over-rides hormones ( I mean, sure, maybe you like bags of dicks or whatever, but yeah, biology is fucking mysterious to primates, esp. things like dung beetles)
Last weeks news had a picture of a worm, our progenitor, and that worm had two things"a mouth, and an asshole". No kidding, I will provide a link if you need one.
For the record, I empathize with that worm. And the news said that that worm is your ancestor. Take that for what you will.
Now, lets start here below, because whatever field you are in is a different field than I am in, ok?
Lets start with faux-rationalism, and faux-scepticism, which are the exact tools that the faux-Liberal CIA/JTRIG/Pilgrim Society/ADL/neocons/etc. and their cronies in various NGOs use to distort information, and discourse online.
Reference to some excellent research on that here:
https://isgp-studies.coNow, you said:
"better be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt"
You don't know a lot about propaganda, organized bankster NGOs, Freemasonry, or double speaking para-language, do you? That's ok, your query indicates as much.
But I know a little bit about that, and it indicates that you are what is called a useful idiot, no offense intended. I didnt invent the term, but it applies to you.
A worm, so to speak.
Theres a lot we could talk about, but you are simply not equipped for these kinds of conversations. Let me explain.
I live about 1000 kilometers from Covid-19 ground zero, and my relatives best friend is from within five km of the Bio lab in Wuhan (no, not in Maatje Benassis underwear, or its many spore-friends in Bill Gates circle of Q conspiracy-controlled assets.).
So, when you spout, with ZERO EVIDENCE, that "people like you were delaying action on the current pandemic with the same stupid questions," you PaulT are demonstrably insane, or just another TD sperg.
ROGS was wearing masks and washing my hands and face, and masks with alcohol from local baijiu facilities turned rogue alcohol producers( I lean towards the 85% solution, no matter what they say about the effectiveness of the 65%) long before you shut yourself into that dungeon in Spain.
ANd I was laughing about how my ancestors were pursued, and prosecuted for producing alcohol in the USA during prohibition.
SO, you are just wrong on so many levels, always.
Then, this is pure useful idiot GOLD:
You said " idiotic conspiracy theories and listed to what the medical community have actually been saying""
Paullie, those bitches are not subsidizing my narrative. If and when the multi trillion dollar Big Pharma clowns and their epidemiology circus, and their psychiatric meta=narrative of discourse online knock on my door and pay me blood money to carry their narrative of "öh, fuck, de epidemicscisticisms! The Viriiiiii!, fuck yeah, I will do it."
Until then,as usual, evidence or GTFO.
And honestly, this is comedy, right? "Why would the WHO be involved in mortgages?"
No explanation necessary, once we examine the banking connections, Paul. None. I dont have the time to educate you.
Butthe WHO are not at all financed on some level by the banksters, right? , and only useful idiots work for free, ok?
Then:
"will increase the need for ventilators somewhat"
Yes, we agree. You, me, and Donald Trump agree that there will be an increased need for these things. But 30,000?
Maybe the Donald busted some medical mafia fraud, BEFORE it happened. Mafias, over-expenditures, and so on.
Regardless of the exact wording, in this case "hoax"which seems to rankle you.
Maybe he could have said "fraud, waste, government abuse.", etc.
But look how far the impotent Ralph Nader got using those exact terms? Yeah. Right. No one in the US will EVER elect a "Ralph" ever. Thats the power of propaganda, bro.
So "hoax"applies more rapidly. We know what that means.
And you, who is NOT a US citizen, and NOT part of our dialectic space, cannot grasp "nuance"in any way. Second language difficulties by their very nature prohibits these understandings.
You there, with C-19 raining on your plain should research this, and try harder to communicate good messages, rather than be a useful idiot for"ëven more easily grasped messaging"
Useful idiot is NOT a good look for anyone, right, left or center, bro.
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Re: Biology is not mysterious? WTF?
As I often say, you don't have to prove you're an insane idiot, we already know. I'm sure you can get across whatever fake talking points you are trying to convey without so much typing. Try sticking to a couple of paragraphs without so much immature idiocy between the nonsense "facts".
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Re: Re: Biology is not mysterious? WTF?
Well, this:
"we already know"
Again, who are we, Paul? TAKE YER MEDS!!!!
(is this simple enough for soundbyte friendly TD regulars?)
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Re: Re: Re: Biology is not mysterious? WTF?
"Again, who are we, Paul?"
This community, humanity, intelligent people, the community of people interested in scientific evidence rather than easily debunked conspiracy theories, whatever you want. I'm sorry you're not part of any of those communities, but the rest of the world can cope with or without your nonsense.
"(is this simple enough for soundbyte friendly TD regulars?)"
I'm sure people would rather you either act like a rational human being or find somewhere else that your idiocy is actually welcome, but this is the price we pay for allowing an open community that enables anonymous commenting and general free discussion.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Biology is not mysterious? WTF?
PaulT, why do you deploy the Psychiatric meta-narrative so frequently?
See point number two here below from ISGP studies, about how the IC, and Big Pharma /Phizer/Merck, et al trolls all use it after they botch something (like those murders of Nigerian children back in 1996):
"2. Subtly or not so subtly intimidate anyone who might be open to the possibility of a conspiracy by questioning the mental health of conspiracy advocates.
Additional explanation: Insinuate that anyone interested in unfavorable subjects, which can even be as innocent as looking into the role of Bilderberg or the Trilateral Commission in the globalization process, is a complete nutter who needs his head examined. A subtler approach might be to pretend how we all get so tired of these people, for example by saying or writing, "Yes, I hear you thinking, here you have them again. But let's find out, what is it exactly that they want to convince us of this time?"
Drug companies frequently mirror criminal syndicates in my mind, PaulT. Here is some evidence:
https://ahrp.org/pfizer-faulted-1996-clinical-trials-in-nigeria-unapproved-drug-tested-on- kids_washpost/
So, re: people would rather you either act like a rational human being
Which people? TDs in-house troll squad, and the NGO bots, ACs, military and police trolls, and hasbara that chime in?
I have gotten emails from people who have read my comments here, and who know what I am doing, and they appreciate it so, you do NOT represent all of TDs readership, or community, which is curiously full of situational faux-rationalists and sceptics, and I bet a lot of Big Pharma trolls too.
That said, why does PaulT frequently deploy the psychiatric meta-narrative at Techdirt?
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this is the price we pay?
Um, we, again....and yeah, I can here all of your hard earned peseta's hitting the Paypal button as I write this.
You should read the "Grand Unified Theory on the Economics of Free," by a relatively well known author/s:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070503/012939/grand-unified-theory-economics-free.shtm l
Then, apply that to the dialectic spaces online to see how not free they are, as if I am an "unauthorized commenter," or something.
And, I have never put forth a single conspiracy "theory" here ever, but have discussed many topics, all while citing evidence. Indeed, my scientific and falsifiable ROGS Analysis is batting nearly 100% in mass shooter cases.
You on the other hand, are part of that mid-aughts conceived form of pseudo-rationalist trolling that always demands evidence, while never engaging with evidence.
See point number two in any military/NGO/think tank affiliated propaganda manual is the psychiatric meta-narrative.
Or, read through Max Blumenthal's EXCELLENT piece, Inside America's Meddling Machine" about your crazy claims.
https://thegrayzone.com/2018/08/20/inside-americas-meddling-machine-the-us-funded-group-that -interferes-in-elections-around-the-globe/
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Re: this is the price we pay?
"Um, we, again....and yeah, I can here all of your hard earned peseta's hitting the Paypal button as I write this."
If you're that out of date about the currency in use here, I can imagine you're just as wrong with all your other claims.
Now, are you going to let people suffer because you're butthurt about someone whose location you don't actually know for sure, or are you going to help people with the power you claim to have?
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re: yearly flu
Its just flu, bro.
"how Trump's actions violate almost every recommendation they have made (all while telling people the entire thing is a hoax)
Amongst conservatives, hoax id"s a code word for "do NOT depend upon media narratives" as we see time and again with issues like #fakerape, and pseudo feminist narratives of western culture ( all of those curiously ending up with "the exact Cathlio-Jewish-Protestant women are victims" analysis, as opposed to egalitarian narratives like "if women study gong fu, they will NOT ever be raped, and in fact might actually be able to beat the fuck out of rapists" narratives?)
I mean, what level of absurdist propaganda are YOU operating from anyways?
In my world, the western weirdness doesn't happen and women take care of themselves, flu gets a shot, and there is no actual lockdowns, just simple alterations of daily habits "wear a mask if you are sick).
So, I have no clue what you are on about
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Re: re: yearly flu
"Its just flu, bro"
It's really not. If you read any medical advice rather than stating that people who know what they're talking about are part of some grand conspiracy for agreeing on facts, you might understand that.
"So, I have no clue what you are on about"
Then read the actual medical information that has been readily available throughout this whole thing. You choosing to remain wilfully ignorant does not mean that the action taken is wrong.
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PaulT is the Phyllis Schlafly of Psychiatric meta-narrative
I replied to you elsewhere on this point. Medical advice varies across doctors on a wide range of diseases and disorders. Even the CDC isn't fully cognizant of the nature of the virus.
Paul, no one in any "official" capacity even agrees on the origin point-the ground zero of COVID-19.
And again, its not my job to educate the public, and the internet is itself not the best medium to use to get the facts that you claim are out there.
So, PaulT, I actually do have boatloads of masks and 65-84% alcohol supplies, FOB to whatever port you want it, anywhere in the world. I actually have that.
And I didn't get it because I simply stayed in the house all day, waiting for the next CDC/WHO bulletin: I took the risk of living real life while taking sensible precautions.
I mean, sure, I am sceptical, but also, realistic. SO, boatloads of supplies if you need them. You in, bro?
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Re: PaulT is the Phyllis Schlafly of Psychiatric meta-narrative
"I replied to you elsewhere on this point. Medical advice varies across doctors on a wide range of diseases and disorders. Even the CDC isn't fully cognizant of the nature of the virus."
Not really. The consensus on most aspects is now pretty clear, and any disagreements don't affect the known basic methods of dealing with the situation.
"Paul, no one in any "official" capacity even agrees on the origin point-the ground zero of COVID-19."
A good thing that's completely irrelevant to how you treat the virus, then.
"So, PaulT, I actually do have boatloads of masks and 65-84% alcohol supplies, FOB to whatever port you want it, anywhere in the world. I actually have that."
Then, stop acting like a lunatic on a forum you yourself claim is too obscure for anyone to care about, and help your fellow man.
"I mean, sure, I am sceptical, but also, realistic. SO, boatloads of supplies if you need them. You in, bro?"
Not personally, but the government in Madrid don't care what kind of an asshole you are if you can back your words up with humanitarian action. Give them a call.
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Re: Re: PaulT is the Phyllis Schlafly of Psychiatric meta-narrat
Well, there you have it. The guy from Madrid refuses to help his fellow country-persons.(fellow man is so sexist, dontchathink?)
Anywayyys.
Yes and no. Last I heard, there were several strains.
Um, maybe, depending on whether or not the cray-cray US-FVEY Military and its banksters and their combined sociopathy
is up to its old tricks; in which case treating the virus is merely treating the symptom, rather than the disease, which is western military madness.
I never once said that this amazing TD forum was obscure, ever. So stop lying.
And really, calling me an asshole? That's like the turd calling the chocolate bar a piece of shit.
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History is a great teacher
Well, if you are working for Big Pharma,Merck, Phizer et al., PaulT, then howbout YOU spread that message for them?
And, re: some grand conspiracy for agreeing on facts is laughable in light of some elements of US/Big Pharma's history doing the opposite when it plots or botches something, as well as seeding every internet discussion with derailing trolls who spout "Are you on your medication!" ad nauseum.
In fact, I never saw this headline, ever:
"Thalidomide: it is NOT best in high doses!"
Or:
"The CDC issues warning to black males: be cautious of doctors from Tuskeegee who claim they are helping YOU fight syphillis, and offering free medical care," for example.
Its not my job to educate anyone about these things, and I personally remain sceptical of Big Pharma, medical meta-narrative on any new disease until all the evidence is in.
I am doubly sceptical as I see the finger pointing between China and the US now.
That said, sure, there are differences, but the evidence so far even from the CDC is sprinkled heavily with "kind of sort of resembles," and "appears to infect..." and lots of "maybe, might, and could, ought and should," etc.
None of that is definite, Paul, none of it.
But there's this, so far:
"there is a fundamental difference in how flu and Covid-19 kill. Many deaths from flu are caused by secondary bacterial pneumonia and heart attacks that develop after the flu has weakened someone's resistance. With Covid-19, most deaths are caused by acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS)" etc.
Again, I remain sceptical, as you should (but curiously don't for some reason).
And, I want to see the statistics in the US when this thing is over to see if car crashes, and other regularly occurring safety related accidents increase too, because people's driving skills get rusty.
That said, if you know anyone looking for an actual boatload of masks, or entire airplanes full of 65-84% alcohol, I can send them to Spain, FOB.
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Re: History is a great teacher
"Well, if you are working for Big Pharma,Merck, Phizer et al., PaulT,"
I'm not, but let your hallucinations about me guide you rather than address the facts at issue, as you usually do. Better than addressing factual information, huh?
"In fact, I never saw this headline, ever:"
Yes, there are many issues with the way things have happened in the past, as there are with most things in history. That does not mean that the majority, or the current, medical advice is suspect. Unless, of course, you'd like to stop ranting like a lunatic and provide evidence.
"Its not my job to educate anyone about these things"
A good thing, since your level of education in the current situation is extremely lacking.
"That said, sure, there are differences, but the evidence so far even from the CDC is sprinkled heavily with "kind of sort of resembles," and "appears to infect..." and lots of "maybe, might, and could, ought and should," etc."
Then, you seriously do not understand what has been said, and indeed how science actually works. Once again, have you considered educating yourself on this subject? It would take less effort than the effort you put into being mocked here.
"Again, I remain sceptical, as you should (but curiously don't for some reason)."
I'm not skeptical because unlike you I have taken the time to understand the issue over the last few months, and all the things that are scary and mysterious to you are known quantities to me. Perhaps instead of living in fear of the mystery, you should understand it.
"And, I want to see the statistics in the US when this thing is over to see if car crashes, and other regularly occurring safety related accidents increase too, because people's driving skills get rusty."
As do the rest of us. But, by then it would be too late to take action to prevent the many, many preventable deaths you are pushing to happen.
"That said, if you know anyone looking for an actual boatload of masks, or entire airplanes full of 65-84% alcohol, I can send them to Spain, FOB."
Go ahead. If you have that in your power, and your reason for not doing that is based on the reaction to your nonsense posts on a web forum you claim nobody visits, that's on you if you refuse to help those in need.
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Romantic accidents, and bubble boy, lol
Lets start at the ending of your word salad:
I said:
if you know anyone looking for an actual boatload of masks, or entire airplanes full of 65-84% alcohol, I can send them to Spain, FOB."
You said:
Go ahead. If you have that in your power, and your reason for not doing that
Cant you read? This is an offer for me to send supplies to your country or anywhere else that needs them.
How do you get from OFFER to REFUSES TO HELP?
Plainly idiotic on your part. But you know where to contact me if you need such supplies.
As for the difficulties of getting supplies where they need to go, unfortunately the west threatens China regularly with sanctions/embargoes/ and worst of all, lawsuits for so-called inferior products, and the usual cockblock of FDA approval.
Then, back up there somewhere in your word salad:
I'm not skeptical.
Thanks for that admission, we have noticed that you are not sceptical, nor rational or reasonable. THis admission is long overdue.
And this is unfounded, and innacurate:
because unlike you I have taken the time to understand the issue over the last few months, and all the things that are scary and mysterious to you are known quantities to me
Evidence that I have not studied it, or that you are a respectable world authority now, more than anyone else everyone who watches the teevee and innernet?
I mean, probably we agree on the basics of disease and prevention (stay in a ventilated plastic bubble for safety), but disagree on the origins of the virus, or the political applications of finger pointing during a pandemic.
And, you probably don't even know what a "romantic accident" is anyways.
Per Chinese media:
"From October 18 to October 27, 2019, the World Military Games was held in Wuhan, and the United States sent 369 soy sauce soldiers to participate.
Why is it soy sauce soldiers?
Because in the 10-day game, the performance of the American soy sauce soldiers was so disappointing that even Bahrain was unnecessarily disappointed, the gold medal was even missing, and the overall score was left far behind by North Korea, which once gave Mexico a chance. The urge to counterattack the continental United States.
However, the poor performance in the game did not affect the mood of the soy sauce soldiers playing in Wuhan.
They teamed up in groups of two, and played around the streets of Wuhan, leaving many romantic accidents.
It should be pointed out that the location of the US guest house of the Military Games is not far from South China Seafood City.
At the end of the military games, just when people were wondering, how could these gangsters who ca n’t wait to build muscles on their faces suddenly get fired up? Did the American soldiers ’food only be grappled? Or did they forget to eat it during the game? Snickers?"
LOl....romantic accidents in the time of pandemic
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Re: Romantic accidents, and bubble boy, lol
"How do you get from OFFER to REFUSES TO HELP?"
Because you claim to have it in your power to help no matter what I say, but you are withholding it until some random person on the internet tells you to help.
Not that I actually believe you either way, but if you are indeed stockpiling supplies that the rest of the world are in great need of, you are by definition withholding it from them.
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Re: Re: Romantic accidents, and bubble boy, lol
I put forward a suggestion that I have immediate access to these supplies, in massive quantities; not claiming that I am stockpiling anything.
So, as usual, your hostility is noted, as is your inability to actually do anything yourself.
How we get from your rude and hostile assumption that I am hoarding supplies is a stretch (without evidence) but then to fully leap the cliff, and say that I am withholding supplies is baseline unhinged, to any onlooker.
Thankfully, other readers might request these things, and help with logistics.
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Re: Re: Re: Romantic accidents, and bubble boy, lol
"I put forward a suggestion that I have immediate access to these supplies, in massive quantities; not claiming that I am stockpiling anything."
OK, then why are you wasting time talking to me rather than someone in a position to use the supplies you claim to have access to?
Assuming you're not lying your ass off to pretend to be more important than you are (a big stretch), you are saying that you won't lift a finger to help people in a manner that's well within your reach, because you're arguing with one random person who has no direct stake in what you do either way. I have no power to accept or deny the supplies you claim to have, I don't know if your claim is genuine, or if it consists of supplies that have already had to be rejected by the Spanish govrnment.
"So, as usual, your hostility is noted, as is your inability to actually do anything yourself."
I'm doing everything within my power, but that does not include access to a stockpile of goods, nor does it include the authority to accept any offers of help on behalf of the government.
You, on the other hand, are claiming that you have the power to do more, but are choosing not to.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Romantic accidents, and bubble boy, lol
I am just one person, bro-let. I never claimed anything near to what you are saying.
But you are correct: I do not have time now to argue with the PaulT chatbot anymore. Any sane onlooker will understand my rationale.
Yours, not so much.
But of its true that you are doing everything within [your] power well, bro, my Thpanish ith rusthy (that Catalan th, long the bane of speakers everywhere).
Maybe you could make that phone call in the native language? Where I live, the virus has passed, and the country is loaded with surplus, and I have a few connections. But a major problem is labelling, and then, FDA/other approval of the exact same products I and hundreds of millions of others used during the epidemic.
That doesn't make me sound important in any sane persons mind: it makes me sound willing to helpand you, less so.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Romantic accidents, and bubble boy, lol
"I am just one person, bro-let. I never claimed anything near to what you are saying."
Then what were you saying when you typed "if you know anyone looking for an actual boatload of masks, or entire airplanes full of 65-84% alcohol, I can send them to Spain, FOB"? Why are you waiting to get approval from someone on the internet who has no power over government procurement procedures?
"my Thpanish ith rusthy (that Catalan th, long the bane of speakers everywhere)."
I don't live anywhere near Catalonia, so if you're trying to mock me using their accent rather than the local Andaluz accent, you're way off base. As usual.
"Maybe you could make that phone call in the native language?"
Why? I don't have any data on the equipment, where it's coming from, whether it's part of batches that have already been rejected as unfit for purpose, etc. Wouldn't it be easier for you to get in touch with English speaking contacts yourself? There's plenty of avenues if you were honest enough to look.
"it makes me sound willing to helpand you, less so."
Sounding willing to help and being willing to help are two very different things. You clearly love scoring imaginary internet points by trying to sound more important and knowledgeable than you actually are, but that doesn't actually help anyone.
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hold on: *imaginary internet points *
Napoleon Complex much, PaulT? Why do the guys with short dicks always default to a pissing contest anyways?
Well, I will get to this shortly: imaginary internet points
...hold on, here it is:
There's problems with France's approach, and certainly problems in the countries I call home https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200315/21181344105/techdirt-time-covid-19.shtml?threaded=true#c1 984
LOL, PaulT arguing for socialism, while straddling a couple/few/ countries. That must be cost innefective, unless your bloody rich.
Take your pick, you vain globe-trotting dual national/egoist/Little Napoleon.
But my offer is still good to anyone else reading in.
Paul(Saul?),trust me, even if I was Slumdog Millionaire, you wouldn't be my lifeline for anything, much less int'l trade hookups.
Like I said, your just the AI/bot/hasbarat that can't help itself but reply to my every comment.
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Re: hold on: *imaginary internet points *
"LOL, PaulT arguing for socialism"
I'm not arguing for socialism. I'm arguing that the guy who claims to have access to vital supplies and claims to be willing to send it to those countries in need does so. If you are either unwilling or unable to do such a thing, why did you say you could?
"Like I said, your just the AI/bot/hasbarat that can't help itself but reply to my every comment."
As you are apparently unable to resist replying to me....
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Re: Re: hold on: *imaginary internet points *
You are almost always wrong, about everything. I didn't actually reply to you there, if you look.
ANd now, TDs own is saying that "science is kinda sorta right about masks," with some caveats about the sketchy nature of misinformation and disinformation
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200331/17242244208/how-do-you-moderate-covid-19-m isinformation-when-coming-official-sources.shtml
So, while we are on the topic that we touched on above--about how fucking wrong, and/or deceptive PaulT is about most things, anywhere and ever.
TDs own have now noted what a load of disinformation and misinformation was spread by all of PaulTs trusted sources (that made you an instant expert like billions of others who are infected with all-too-trusting adoration of media punditry and propaganda), to whit:
TD, citing various official narratives:
Ben points out that the World Health Organization (WHO), the US CDC, and the US Surgeon General all provided bad information to the public regarding the wearing of masks to help slow the spread of COVID-19.
When to use mask 😷 • If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected #coronavirus infection. • Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing More https://t.co/4odGgqxAKP#COVID19 pic.twitter.com/1aM8MyaSmF — World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) March 1, 2020 CDC does not currently recommend the use of facemasks to help prevent novel #coronavirus. Take everyday preventive actions, like staying home when you are sick and washing hands with soap and water, to help slow the spread of respiratory illness. #COVID19 https://t.co/uArGZTJhXj pic.twitter.com/yzWTSgt2IV — CDC (@CDCgov) February 27, 2020 Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk! https://t.co/UxZRwxxKL9 — U.S. Surgeon General (@Surgeon_General) February 29, 2020I mean, PaulT, take your meds (with water)! Have your tinfoil hat greased! Stick your finger in a socket! You need psychiatric Heeeeelp!!!
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