"Your so-called 'Artist', seems to believe they are entitled to payment each and every time I 'enjoy' their art. Listen to a song? Pay the musicians, pay the songwriter, pay the lyricist, pay this, pay that. It never ends."
Radio Stations , TV shows , Advertisers , and Bars with cover bands , ALL pay for play -- to the Artists ALL the time.
If you get the lyrics from a profit making website , same deal should be there .
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
Not that easy , and here I am thinking of older songwriters and lyricists . who wrote the words to the classic tunes that many people seek out ,,,so "oh Darling ,, Stand by Me..."
Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free... "I have an app that takes single lines from poems, songs, etc.
"I have an app that takes single lines from poems, songs, etc. It took a weekend to write. By just randomly choosing a line to add to the song and saying yeah or nay to that line you end up with lyrics better than most of the song writers out there today. "
An infinite number of monkeys on infinite typwriters ,,, or an infinite number of geeks with apps,,,,.. Ain't never gonna write the Lyrics to "My Girl" .
Writing lyrics are not just words. The words ,, even down to the vowel sonds , got to fit the mood and melody of the song. Very hard to do , and it takes talent.
What I am talking about here ,,are those great artists who wrote the great words to many of those classic rock and pop songs of yester-year -- but that are still covered by copyright. Those Lyricist who put the words to the sondtracks of our lifes, deserve some change if you see out their lyrics -- very often in your line of work , if you are a teacher (song lyrics and the civil rights / movement ) , camp counselor ( for that song contest in color war ) ,, or a musician like me who is always downloading lyrics for the cover tunes the band does.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
because you cannot copy right chords,, the "blues" are the same 3 chords. Medoldey can be copyrighted , but as we learned with the George Harrison " My Sweet Lord" vs. 'He So fine" legal fiacso , it is a murky terriorty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Sweet_Lord
"And to address technopolitical's point (one more time), if the lyricist is distinct from the performing artist and not getting a decent cut, that's not really the fault of the lyrics site. It's up to the lyricist to negotiate a better deal from the performer."
These are standard deals concerning songwriters/ lyricist , with ASCAP and etc ,, and not really the point here,
The point here :
Once upon a time people went to the "sheet music store" and BOUGHT w/ money , the "words and/or music" to the song they needed. They where teachers , camp counselors ,, Corparate movitvators, and street and bar musicians , people who use these songs lyrics in their line of WORK.
These same folks are now getting IT ALL for free --( saying this one more time )- FROM A $$$ making website with song lyrics.
You need my song lyrics so bad , you used to pay for them , ( and then make illegal Xeroxes !!) Now you get them for free ALL THE WAY.
yes for the big Artists ,, no really much impact ,, but for that now aging lyricist who scored only one or two hits,, way back when ,, the missing royalties could be the difference between housing and homelessness.
A nasty assumption here is that only new and popular song lyrics are taken from these site. I would bet old classic are a very big share , and it is those aging lyrical artists , who most need the the protection for website that post thier lyrics.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ReOkay, so lyric sites increase sales for performing artists.
"Okay, so lyric sites increase sales for performing artists."
An unproved assumption. The Lyric site may be providing a valued service to many people who used song lyrics. Teachers in Schools, Corparate pep rallys, Street Musicians,,
You are assumming here that people are going to lyric sites for new and popular songs, with active performing artist.
I visit these lyric site to get the lyrics to old classics, Chuck Berry and Little Richard songs. I think the "....the King and Queen..."* deserve a few bucks for that.
( *I forget the full "American Pie" lyrics about Chuck and Rich,, so I look will look 'em up , and then send Don McClean a check for my printout of his copyrighted lyrics. Right!?!?)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
with non -"ART" products , where supply and demand may come into play ,, value and price may differ in capital terms.
With "ART" , I put forth , being it really has not "value" ,-- you can't eat art, or funtionally use it so its "Value" , is simply waht people are willing to pat for it.
-- ( yes clothes ,, for example can be Art, but clothes do not have to be Art, and with clothing Fuction not Form is what matters. Art is pure "Form" with not real economic "fucntion".)----
Lyrics are not Facts. They are human creations. Art. Art is coptrighted --it is in the U.S. Constitution.
The issue here is :
Do money making websites , that post lyrics of popular songs on that website , bringing people to their money making website ,,, owe any of that $$ to the lyricist who wrote the words,, that bring traffic to their website,,, that is making the website owner MONEY ??
Be real folks . The Lyricist -- who often IS NOT the musical performer deserves some cut of the $$$$
Re: If you've got a song rolling around in your head, but can't come up with its name or the artist, you can't buy it, can you?
"If you've got a song rolling around in your head, but can't come up with its name or the artist, you can't buy it, can you?"
In the old ays , you would call the radio station -- they actually like those calls , esp , those lonly late nite DJs.
Today with most radio staions compleltly automated , you cannot really do that. So I ussually ask the girls working as cashiers at the supermarket ,, " you know that song, just playing over the loudspeakers ?" They always do.
So then I go home , search google , and print out the lyrics for free, and record the song off of You Tube for free ,, then learn the song , and play it a bar, and make $$$ off the song.
The orginal artist gets near -zero -- not total zero , as ASCAP does ask bars were bands play covers to cough up some dough each year.
I feel guilty, so do I save $$$ to buy the album with the song in question--- Nope.
But I did get those lyric for FREE , from a money making site. There is where the artist can take a cut. Thats why these sites with Lyrics---- that make $$$ -- owe the lyricist $$.
"And again, that's beside the point anyway, since neither musicians nor songwriters have ever gotten money solely from lyrics."
Many bands have "lyicist -- The Grateful Dead's Robert Hunter is a prime example.
I easily remember chords , and often can just pick them off the recording by listening,,,
but those lyrics , I always forget the precise wording -- which is very important to a good song.
then of course ,, with those mulitverse Bob Dylan songs , where verse order is CRITICAL is properly performing the song --- "Tangled up in Blue" fails is you do the verses out of order ,, and trust,, me someone in the crowd will notice , and pulll that tip right out of the tip jar.
Chords , I do not need . Lyrics I need. Now Bob Dylan was nice enough to put all his lyrics on his website -- love ya Bob,, but for the REAL words to "louie Louie" I got to go to the music store and buy them--- unless I can get them FREE online. Free except for the ads on the lyric site, which are paying to be there ,, and I might just click on one,, and maybe make a purchase.
So , I get my Lyrics.
The ad gets a click-- making $$ for the site owner,,
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
"Firstly, the music has great value without the lyrics."
I think Bob Dylan would disagree !!
"I have no idea what a lot of the lyrics are to the songs I listen to."
Thats why people go to lyric sites. That why there are ads on Lyric sites. That how lyric site make money. That is why the lyricist should get some of that $$$.
I stay purposefully ignorant a percentage of the time...."
A large percentage of the time it seems.
(Tf I turn this post into a song , and make ooddles of $$ with it ,, would you want a cut ,, or can I have your "drival" for free? )
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
`you just proved my point : For Art ,,, PRICE equals Value.
A singular rare Picasso cost now 106 million.
IF there where only one copy of Abbey Road , listen-able to only one person at a time , it too would be worth 106 million. Though I bet someone would pay 106 million for the orginal studio acid tape.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
If the lyric site generates income ,, the lyricist should get a cut . I do not live off of people loving or respecting or publizing my art,, i live off of $$$ generated by my art.
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
Radio Stations , TV shows , Advertisers , and Bars with cover bands , ALL pay for play -- to the Artists ALL the time.
If you get the lyrics from a profit making website , same deal should be there .
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free... "I have an app that takes single lines from poems, songs, etc.
An infinite number of monkeys on infinite typwriters ,,, or an infinite number of geeks with apps,,,,.. Ain't never gonna write the Lyrics to "My Girl" .
Writing lyrics are not just words. The words ,, even down to the vowel sonds , got to fit the mood and melody of the song. Very hard to do , and it takes talent.
What I am talking about here ,,are those great artists who wrote the great words to many of those classic rock and pop songs of yester-year -- but that are still covered by copyright. Those Lyricist who put the words to the sondtracks of our lifes, deserve some change if you see out their lyrics -- very often in your line of work , if you are a teacher (song lyrics and the civil rights / movement ) , camp counselor ( for that song contest in color war ) ,, or a musician like me who is always downloading lyrics for the cover tunes the band does.
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Sweet_Lord
With LYRICs there is no murkiness.
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Lyrics as facts
These are standard deals concerning songwriters/ lyricist , with ASCAP and etc ,, and not really the point here,
The point here :
Once upon a time people went to the "sheet music store" and BOUGHT w/ money , the "words and/or music" to the song they needed. They where teachers , camp counselors ,, Corparate movitvators, and street and bar musicians , people who use these songs lyrics in their line of WORK.
These same folks are now getting IT ALL for free --( saying this one more time )- FROM A $$$ making website with song lyrics.
You need my song lyrics so bad , you used to pay for them , ( and then make illegal Xeroxes !!) Now you get them for free ALL THE WAY.
yes for the big Artists ,, no really much impact ,, but for that now aging lyricist who scored only one or two hits,, way back when ,, the missing royalties could be the difference between housing and homelessness.
A nasty assumption here is that only new and popular song lyrics are taken from these site. I would bet old classic are a very big share , and it is those aging lyrical artists , who most need the the protection for website that post thier lyrics.
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ReOkay, so lyric sites increase sales for performing artists.
An unproved assumption. The Lyric site may be providing a valued service to many people who used song lyrics. Teachers in Schools, Corparate pep rallys, Street Musicians,,
You are assumming here that people are going to lyric sites for new and popular songs, with active performing artist.
I visit these lyric site to get the lyrics to old classics, Chuck Berry and Little Richard songs. I think the "....the King and Queen..."* deserve a few bucks for that.
( *I forget the full "American Pie" lyrics about Chuck and Rich,, so I look will look 'em up , and then send Don McClean a check for my printout of his copyrighted lyrics. Right!?!?)
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
And if the ship works well , with years of good service ,, they will come back and buy more ships!
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
they do.
Lyric sites don't
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
With "ART" , I put forth , being it really has not "value" ,-- you can't eat art, or funtionally use it so its "Value" , is simply waht people are willing to pat for it.
-- ( yes clothes ,, for example can be Art, but clothes do not have to be Art, and with clothing Fuction not Form is what matters. Art is pure "Form" with not real economic "fucntion".)----
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Lyrics as facts
The issue here is :
Do money making websites , that post lyrics of popular songs on that website , bringing people to their money making website ,,, owe any of that $$ to the lyricist who wrote the words,, that bring traffic to their website,,, that is making the website owner MONEY ??
Be real folks . The Lyricist -- who often IS NOT the musical performer deserves some cut of the $$$$
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: If you've got a song rolling around in your head, but can't come up with its name or the artist, you can't buy it, can you?
In the old ays , you would call the radio station -- they actually like those calls , esp , those lonly late nite DJs.
Today with most radio staions compleltly automated , you cannot really do that. So I ussually ask the girls working as cashiers at the supermarket ,, " you know that song, just playing over the loudspeakers ?" They always do.
So then I go home , search google , and print out the lyrics for free, and record the song off of You Tube for free ,, then learn the song , and play it a bar, and make $$$ off the song.
The orginal artist gets near -zero -- not total zero , as ASCAP does ask bars were bands play covers to cough up some dough each year.
I feel guilty, so do I save $$$ to buy the album with the song in question--- Nope.
But I did get those lyric for FREE , from a money making site. There is where the artist can take a cut. Thats why these sites with Lyrics---- that make $$$ -- owe the lyricist $$.
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
Many bands have "lyicist -- The Grateful Dead's Robert Hunter is a prime example.
I easily remember chords , and often can just pick them off the recording by listening,,,
but those lyrics , I always forget the precise wording -- which is very important to a good song.
then of course ,, with those mulitverse Bob Dylan songs , where verse order is CRITICAL is properly performing the song --- "Tangled up in Blue" fails is you do the verses out of order ,, and trust,, me someone in the crowd will notice , and pulll that tip right out of the tip jar.
Chords , I do not need . Lyrics I need. Now Bob Dylan was nice enough to put all his lyrics on his website -- love ya Bob,, but for the REAL words to "louie Louie" I got to go to the music store and buy them--- unless I can get them FREE online. Free except for the ads on the lyric site, which are paying to be there ,, and I might just click on one,, and maybe make a purchase.
So , I get my Lyrics.
The ad gets a click-- making $$ for the site owner,,
and the advertised gets a sale ,,
and the Lyicist for "Louie Louie"....
gets Bubkas!!!!
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
I think Bob Dylan would disagree !!
"I have no idea what a lot of the lyrics are to the songs I listen to."
Thats why people go to lyric sites. That why there are ads on Lyric sites. That how lyric site make money. That is why the lyricist should get some of that $$$.
I stay purposefully ignorant a percentage of the time...."
A large percentage of the time it seems.
(Tf I turn this post into a song , and make ooddles of $$ with it ,, would you want a cut ,, or can I have your "drival" for free? )
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
,, the only income such songwriters and lyricist get is from "music publishing" and "air-play royalties" -- not concert tickets.
Lyric sites that make $$$ -- owe $$$ to the craftsmen they make money from : the Lyricist.
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
A singular rare Picasso cost now 106 million.
IF there where only one copy of Abbey Road , listen-able to only one person at a time , it too would be worth 106 million. Though I bet someone would pay 106 million for the orginal studio acid tape.
And the hand written lyrics always sell well too.
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
Art does not decay.
The medium on which it is produced may age of wear,,
... but the Beatles did not say look , you bought Abbey road in 1970 on vinyl ,, Now we will give you a free lifetime update on the medium.
No ,, we bought the tape , then the CD , then the remastered CD , and soon again the repressed vinyl
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/10/business/media/10audio.html?ref=technology
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re:
I would not cede you that point.
If the lyric site make $$$ , that Artists legally deserve a cut.
If the lyric site is a volunteer labour of love,, that is nice. But there are very few nice people who do that.
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
On the post: Publishers Still Trying To Squeeze Money Out Of Lyrics Sites
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Artists do not work for Free
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