If You're Subversive, And Live In South Carolina, Please Register With The State Gov't

from the before-hiking-the-appalachian-trail dept

Thu, Feb 11th 2010 10:10am — Mike Masnick

Slashdot points us to the news that South Carolina has a new law requiring every member "subversive groups" to register with the government or face up to $25,000 in fines and a ten year prison sentence. Seriously:

"every member of a subversive organization, or an organization subject to foreign control, every foreign agent and every person who advocates, teaches, advises or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States ... shall register with the Secretary of State."

Oh, and it will cost you $5 to let the state government know you're a terrorist wannabe.

Now, of course, it's already illegal to plot against the US government, so this law doesn't add anything, other than something else to throw at anyone arrested for being "subversive." Prosecutors can also point out that they "failed to register."

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Filed Under: south carolina, subversives

64 Comments

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Ima Fish (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:14am

In Michigan we used to have a law requiring drug dealers to obtain a license for their illegal drugs. For example, if you had 2 kilos of pot, you'd go down to your secretary of state office and obtain your license. Needless to say, not many people took advantage of that.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:20am

I wonder how long it's going to take for Stephen Colbert, a South Carolinian, to be declared a subversive?
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Matthew Cruse (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:21am

Re:
Dumbest. Law. Ever.
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Ima Fish (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:23am

My headline would have been:
Wanna overthrow the government? We have a form for that!
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A Dan (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:24am

Why did you leave it out?
Immediately after the "..." in your summary, it says "by force or violence or other unlawful means". I think leaving that out will derail the discussion a bit.
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Mike C. (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:24am

Any bets on how long it will take this to get abused for political reasons?

every member of a subversive organization, or an organization subject to foreign control, every foreign agent and every person who advocates, teaches, advises or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States ... shall register with the Secretary of State

Don't both major political parties want to "control" the government of the United States?

In my opinion, this new law is going to be trouble.
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Mike C. (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:30am

Re: Why did you leave it out?
Even with that addition, it's still a useless law. Here's an experiment for you to try:

Name one "unlawful" method that can be used to gain control of the government and yet WON'T already get you sent to jail.

This law adds no new protections, just new/extra punishments to already existing laws.
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NAMELESS.ONE, 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:31am

yes retards everywhere stand up and claim there terrorists
i saw this at dslreports and made this comment what what it is really about is that first they make a stupid law like this then the next law gives them the right to label you such then everyone would be forced to pay

think how it could work in Canada
make a law that all pirates that exist have to pay 50$ a month
everyone laughs and then next law comes and suddenly no more laughter as govt can label you such at there discretion via the ACTA treaty.

THEN YOU PAY
PROFIT
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ant anti mike, 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:35am

pirates are subversives so we have to make them pay
would a pie in your face be considered unlawful and thus subversive and thus you get to pay?

as your downloading your music are you really saying UP YOURS TO JOE BIDEN the mister hollywood vice president and thus are subversive

yes mike watch were this one leads
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A Dan (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:36am

Re: Re: Why did you leave it out?
I agree with you. I still think it's wrong and unconstitutional, but the Slashdot discussion degraded into all politicians that want change going against the law (which is inaccurate). I would prefer that to not happen here on Techdirt.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:37am

Re: Why did you leave it out?
Err...how *else* would you overthrow the government? With magic?
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:44am

Further proof that King George blew it big time. If only he had enacted a law like this back in the day...
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Richard (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:46am

or an organization subject to foreign control,

So all members of the Roman Catholic Church will have to register.
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NAMELESS.ONE, 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:47am

HEY wait a minute
whats the penalty FOR not doing so and they label you as such?
/me goes to his dads king George bible ...yea this isn't in there...
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hitler would be proud, 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:48am

gets out his dnd basic edition and rolls some dice
YES you too can over throw the govt we even have mass combat rules so you can take on the whole us army LOL
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aguywhoneedstenbucks (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:49am

Re: Re: Why did you leave it out?
Didn't David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear? That's one hell of a start.....
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:51am

How specific are we talking about here?
If they specify controlling and conducting the US government threw illegal means, wouldn't most lobbyists have to register? Bribery is illegal and they are trying to control and conduct the government.
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NAMELESS.ONE, 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:53am

truthfully
you get the feeling that all the laws needed we have and these lawyers are now just making up stuff to get paid?
Anyone get this feeling ?

ITS that or maybe the worlds leaders are taken over by aliens. HOW else do you explain grown men , of intellect with lawyers around them making such laws that we common folk to know are utterly devoid of intelligence, unless its part as i said of a plan to extend the tax base and thus continue the american country a few more years till its known they are truly bankrupt. WHY else while your handing out trillions to scammers bring in health care at same time. WHERE is all this cash going to come form YES I KNOW we can buy up all the art and creativity and make YOU OTHERS IN WORLD PAY
haha yes yes
/me pictures the star wars emperor laughing hard now.
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lavi d (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 10:56am

Sing Along
If you're subversive and you know it
raise your hand
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:03am

Re:
Of course not, no one suspects the US Government!
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Jim C, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:04am

Ex military
Don't forget the Department of Homeland Security declared that all military veterans were potential terrorists. Do we have to register to or only if we decide to become "active" instead of potential?
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The Devil's Coachman (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:06am

We're talking about ..........ummmmmmmmm......South Carolina, right? No more really need be said, as that simple fact explains everything you need to know about the reasons for this law.
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The Devil's Coachman (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:07am

We're talking about ..........ummmmmmmmm......South Carolina, right? No more really need be said, as that simple fact explains everything you need to know about the reasons for this law.
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Jimr (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:07am

Sounds like the law could be used against any political party determine to take control of the government by winning an election. It could be applied to various groups that would like to see a change in government.

Now problem is if your a Subversive group and register are you still a subversive group that no longer needs to register?
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Richard (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:16am

The best approach
The best approach to this would be to swamp them with registrations for spoof organisations.

See if they can take the forms in with a straight face....
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PassinThru (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:19am

"That's right, ladies and gentlemen of the jury - the defendant is not only a subversive, but an UNREGISTERED subversive!"
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Left Out, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:20am

Re: Sing Along
What if you are merely devious and aspiring to be subversive?

I'm only at cranky stage now (working on my ornery badge). Hoping to soon be mischevious! *fingers crossed!*
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Snake BLISKIN, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:22am

From the United Hackers Association to Anti Mike with Love or was it shit on his face
im a escape form LA now
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:25am

This is not a new law.
The new bill is to repeal a law from the 1976 code, which was supposedly just a revision of a law from the Red Scare in 1951. Yes, it probably shouldn't still be one the books, but there are a lot of goofy laws still on the books from years ago that are never enforced.
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Anony1, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:43am

Slashdot points us to the news that South Carolina has a new (UNCONSTITUTIONAL) law requiring every member "subversive groups" to register with the government or face up to $25,000 in fines and a ten year prison sentence...

@Richard:

by Richard (profile)
or an organization subject to foreign control,

So all members of the Roman Catholic Church will have to register

NO BUT JACKA$$ RELIGIOUS BIGOTS LIKE YOURSELF WILL BE AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.
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NAMELESS.ONE, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:44am

wha about that one in ontario where i live
the law states that only horses can be usd to get to downtown
YUP its an actual law. just no longer enforced.

maybe instead a all the insane copyright stuff we could get lawyers work removing dumb laws..wait maybe thats why these laws are coming out so later they can work at removing them ....like a perpetual paradox machine form doctor who
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George Parigian Jr., 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:50am

Global Government
So I take this to mean that every government official in this country who promotes or espouses "global government" which by necessity would supersede the United States government, would have to register as a subversive.
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NAMELESS.ONE, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:51am

think of the children dont send them to church
ya know so the father/priest can touch them.
bigotry has nohting ot do with sick ways that religion has conducted itself and hindered innovation and creativy to mankind
Galileo sound familiar, why do you think free masonry came into being as a powerful force in the world? because we need secret organizations that are chalked full a scientists ?

yes its a lot more ...open dare i say then in the past largely because they won there lil secret war against the church. ALL THE FUNDING FATHERS OF THE USA ARE OR WERE MASONS.
THINK about that when you speak highly of catholicism. organized religion has done far worse for this planet OF ANY KIND. belief in higher powers or a god(s) is your choice dont shove it at me with your PREECHY CRAP
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ChimpBush McHitlerBurton, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:54am

Re: Re: No One Suspects....
NnnnnnOH one suspects the US Government!

Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to removing every civil right available to the average American!

General Fang... Get the Comfy Chair!

CBMHB
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:57am

Re: From the United Hackers Association to Anti Mike with Love or was it shit on his face
P L I S K I N
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Ven, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:57am

Re: Re: Why did you leave it out?
"Unlawful" is far to broad to be a limiting factor.
For example, it is disturbing the peace to shout for an extended time in a public place.

This law could be twisted to say that a group advocating a political change is attempting to "control" the government, and that in planning a demonstration they intend to use unlawfully disturb the peace. Now they can be charged just for planning the demonstration.

And now we have written a law that creates thought-crime.
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yozoo, 11 Feb 2010 @ 11:58am

umm
Dont we have a freedom of association protection from exactly this type of intrusion (certainly Jefferson feared this specific abuse)? Is it Soviet South Carolina now?
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ReVolt, 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:01pm

So funny
How they are starting to prepare for the revolution these days! All their FEMA camps and coffins. I love it when the crooks in control start getting nervous about the "subversive groups" out there.. Hell, that all of America from where I'm standing.

"What? Your worried we might revolt? You were not thinking about us revolting when you were flying planes into our buildings where you?" Then your going to get what you got.. US, MAD AS HELL.. And as the Marine was saying on Youtube, "From my cold dead hands"..
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Ven, 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:04pm

Re: Re: Why did you leave it out?
Voting sometimes works. The Articles of Confederation were peacefully overthrown by the ratification of the Constitution.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:04pm

Re: think of the children dont send them to church
Yeah, um... could you work on your grammar? Punctuation would be nice too.

I figure if you spent as much time on those two things as you do on capitalization, you'd be set.

Thanks,

Buh-bye.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:25pm

I may be reading the lists wrong, or parsing out the verbiage incorrectly but I saw this:

"Every person who... practices... controlling... the government of the United States ... shall register with the Secretary of State."

Does this apply to Lobbyists and/or politicians?
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Emo the Libertarian (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:28pm

Re: Re: Why did you leave it out?
Well it could be said that Lobbyist use Dollars to overthrown the Government of the people for a Government of the Corporations... No Guns and they are not technically illegal either...

Just saying...
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OldGeek, 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:33pm

Too Bad
To bad the Declaration of Independence doesn't hold any weight any more:

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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Bobby Boberstein, 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:34pm

Re: think of the children dont send them to church
Where is yoru data to support you thesis? One Galileo is only a partial truth at best. Do not pull it out of the context of the day and try to apply your current state to items that happened to the past. Why is it just teh church you hold to this standard? What about the wrongful acts of EVERY govenrment on the planet? It seems you may be a democrat? What about the fact they fought for slavery(which christians fought against). Created terrorist groups to keep exslaves afraid to vote. The Republican controlled Executive office had to keep troops in Southerm State Government office to just protect the African Americans from getting killed and Harrased.
Yet you still probably vote Demo. I can come up with many items against Repubs, and ANY COUNTRY or Goverment that has ever existed. The only thign you are proving is that YOU are teh close minded Bigot and that mankind has been horrible to each other in spite of what a few people haev tried to do to make the world a better place.

So I woudl suggest you pull your head out of your professors Ar$#, quit hatin' and make the world a better place.
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PRMan, 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:34pm

Well, maybe there IS an upside, after all.
I wonder how long it's going to take for Stephen Colbert, a South Carolinian, to be declared a subversive?
Well, maybe there IS an upside, after all...
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Anony1, 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:36pm

@NAMELESS.ONE : Ya you know the same thing has occured in countles other religious organizations, and countless other non-religious organizations. Rather than correct your multiple historical inaccuracies, and obvious blinding uneducated, and uninformed hatred for organized religions I just have this to say: Your rant on the actions of priests (which were very wrong indeed) is completely off topic to my response to richard, but it DOES put you in the same catergory as him. Suffice it to say, no one asked you some mind your own damn buisness you nutcase. You sound like you're a few sandwhiches short of a picknick any how. Ignorance knows no bounds apparently. You're the one preaching idiot. I was merely pointing out an obvious bias. Anything else?
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Overcast (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:44pm

Any bets on how long it will take this to get abused for political reasons?

every member of a subversive organization, or an organization subject to foreign control, every foreign agent and every person who advocates, teaches, advises or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States ... shall register with the Secretary of State

Don't both major political parties want to "control" the government of the United States?

In my opinion, this new law is going to be trouble.

Well - the 'Government of the US' is by the people, for the people and of the people of the US. Not a state legislature, period. It never, ever says that at all. The 'state' has no control over the Federal Government or should have any say so in it's affairs - as an 'entity'.

Therefore: a State government trying to 'dictate' matters in regards to the federal government is in fact trying to 'control' the government aka 'the people' of the United States. They are guilty of it themselves by simply making this law.
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Danny (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:46pm

Escaping persecution? So that's why they call them "Mayflower" vans.
My reading of the legislation suggests that the Republican Party in South Carolina, if they intend to support a 2012 candidate for President other than Barack Obama, is planning to advocate, teach, advise and practice the act of seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States.

It's what we do every four years.

So, now they have to register or be in violation of the law. Or move out of South Carolina.
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Hephaestus (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 12:58pm

Re:
"Wanna overthrow the government? We have a form for that!"

Put it on the iPhone or iPad and you can say we have an app for that.

Put it on an app on the verizon network and include GPS tracking and you can say we have a map for that.
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Palmyra (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 1:46pm

Four names that should be first on the list.
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Lynch Jr., Arthur Middleton, and Thomas Heyward Jr.
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TW Burger (profile), 11 Feb 2010 @ 1:50pm

OMG
The people of the south are often the butt of jokes regarding odd sensibilities. I always thought these to be unfair exaggerations. Not any more. I guess Sarah Palin needs to sign up - and every Republican.
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Anony1, 11 Feb 2010 @ 2:27pm

exaggerations. Not any more. I guess Sarah Palin needs to sign up - and every Republican.

@TW Burger:YES. All the men, women, and teenagers of any political party other than the Democratic party is obviously not an American right? I mean, after all, Democracy is all about ONE political party rule right?
There is no room for dessent right??

Sorry you partisan hack. You want Communist China, it's a few thousand miles thata' way....

Did you think before you typed that, or did you just swallow the kool-aid real quick? Oh wait you were "joking" right? BTW did you know the SOUTH is a bastian of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Particularlly South Carolina? Or that Sarah Palin (not a huge fan of the ex-Govenor myself) is from ALASKA, which is in the north?

Hey why let silly facts get in the way though. You could only be more wrong if you changed your handle to "The Anti-Mike". Have a super day.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2010 @ 2:32pm

Stupid crap like this actually makes me WANT TO join a "subversive group".
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Wolfy, 11 Feb 2010 @ 3:58pm

religion
Off topic I realize, but since it's already been brought up, (Hey, look! Proper punctuation and capitalization!) Religion is nothing more than voluntary, self-inflicted mental illness. Period. You have to brainwash children with it for it to stick with any reliability, because you couldn't give it away, let alone sell it to any sane, healthy adult. It's by far the worst human invention for acquiring and maintaining power ever devised. It was perfected by evil men who should have been strangled in their cribs.
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Glenn, 11 Feb 2010 @ 5:06pm

Really?
I think a history lesson or two [hundred] is in order for a few [hundred] politicians in S.C. OK, children, let's start with the American Revolution...
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Rekrul, 11 Feb 2010 @ 5:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Why did you leave it out?
Didn't David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear?

No, he didn't. He had the live audience members and the camera on a rotating platform and simply turned it so that when the lights were turned back on, they were looking at empty space.
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PRK (profile), 12 Feb 2010 @ 2:11am

The scary part is the lack of English language skills in the language:

"every member of a subversive organization, or an organization subject to foreign control, every foreign agent and every person who advocates, teaches, advises or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States ... shall register with the Secretary of State."

Does the "who advocates, teaches, advises or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States..." ONLY apply to "every foreign agent and every person"?

If so, is merely being a member of an "organization subject to foreign control" mean you must register automatically? So if I am a member of the Bar Association of Barcelona I must register?
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Michael, 12 Feb 2010 @ 3:36am

Re: Re:
In CT, it is illegal to do your laundry in a parking space.
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Fracture, 12 Feb 2010 @ 7:03am

The answer
Can't believe no one divined the true intent of this legislation:

It is a direct response to the latest SCOTUS ruling concerning a corporation's right to "free speech" through campaign contributions. This legislation is trying to limit and identify foreign-based, corporate-sponsored nominees.

Or so it seems.
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Anony1, 12 Feb 2010 @ 8:19am

(religion) was perfected by evil men who should have been strangled in their cribs...

Like that Jesus guy who blessed his persecutors, and wished good upon those who spew venom (like you) right ? You're so right Wolfy..(sarcasm)
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Feb 2010 @ 1:45pm

Does "foreign" organizations include the UN and Red Cross?
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 12 Feb 2010 @ 3:32pm

Laws criminals don't follow
This law makes as much sense as all the gun laws that keep getting passed. Criminals don't give a frozed rat turd about gun laws, just like "subversives" don't care about following laws like this.

It would be like saying, everyone who wants to carjack someone needs to register with the DMV. Like I'm gonna wait in line for four hours to tell the athorities I'm gonna do something illegal.

Isn't representative democracy fun?
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Wolfy, 13 Feb 2010 @ 5:41pm

When you can PROVE that jebus existed, I'll grant you a point.
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Callum Yeater, 14 Feb 2010 @ 9:54am

.....screw this
Wow what a way to nullify the constitution. If South Carolina wants me to pay 5 dollars to register as a terrorist just because I was pot legal and the republicans who control this state want to keep crying and bullying people because of it than screw this state. I'm not registering
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