Rep. Lofgren Again Explains How And Why Domain Seizures Violate The Law

Bon Jovi Thinks Steve Jobs Killed Music; More Old Rockers Shooing Those Darn Kids Off Their Lawn

from the change-is-hard dept

Tue, Mar 15th 2011 10:39am — Mike Masnick

I guess it's just natural as people get older that they pine for "the way things used to be." However, it does seem extra silly when it comes from rockstars, who generally have a reputation of bucking the system and changing the way things were done. The latest to step into this ring appears to be Jon Bon Jovi who is blaming Steve Jobs for all that is wrong in the music world. Apparently, his issue is with the fact that people don't buy records any more:

Kids today have missed the whole experience of putting the headphones on, turning it up to 10, holding the jacket, closing their eyes and getting lost in an album; and the beauty of taking your allowance money and making a decision based on the jacket, not knowing what the record sounded like, and looking at a couple of still pictures and imagining it.... God, it was a magical, magical time... I hate to sound like an old man now, but I am, and you mark my words, in a generation from now people are going to say: 'What happened?' Steve Jobs is personally responsible for killing the music business.

At least he recognizes he sounds like an old man. And it may have been magical for him, but what about all the people who bought the album based on the jacket and it turned out to be crap. You know what many people think is actually magical? That they can listen to what they want, wherever they want, and being able to find and access all sorts of new music they might never have found out about otherwise. I don't know, but it strikes me that today is a much more magical time in terms of what the fans get.

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Filed Under: jon bon jovi, magical, music, records

108 Comments

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crade (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:28am

I thought Bon Jovi killed music.
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:40am

Is he serious?
So he's pining for a time when people made music decisions based on the album art? And having people to listen to a track before parting with their hard-earned cash is "killing music"? Yikes.

If that's the music industry he wants, I'm glad it's dead. Somebody put a couple more rounds in it for good measure.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:43am

and you mark my words, in a generation from now people are going to say: 'What happened?'

Ah yes, that terrible and fast-approaching day when we will all wake up to a world devoid of music! When everyone will throw their iPods to the ground and chant "Bring Back Vinyl!" When kids in their rooms won't bother practicing the guitar, because what's the point if you won't get to design an album jacket one day?

Oh horrible portent - tell us Bon Jovi, whose words have been duly marked, how do we avoid this awful future?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:43am

He does touch on a point I do agree with and why digital music should (amongst many other reasons) be much cheaper.

There was the experience of browsing the record stores, running into and meeting cool kids. Record stores were cool destinations and in of themselves.

None of that experience has yet to be created with digital distribution.
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The eejit (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:43am

Re:
No, you've got your "B"s wrong - that was Bono.
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crade (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:45am

Re: Is he serious?
He's on crack anyway that time never existed. People used to buy because they heard a single on the radio or because they knew the band from elsewhere at least, not because they went in and picked a random album based on the artwork. The nice thing was that bands could make a pop-y song to lure people in and then force them to listen to good music (as per the artist) when they buy the album.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:46am

Re:
Twitter? Facebook? Blogs? Or don't they count?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:47am

Hey Mike, why didn't you link to the original article? You know, at the Times? The UK version?

Is it because of the Wall of Pay?
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Mike42 (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:49am

Re: Re:
I think you're both right.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:50am

There's a great response to this:

http://www.cultofmac.com/sorry-bon-jovi-steve-jobs-didnt-found-napster-editorial/86419

A nd it doesn't go in the direction you think it will. The payoff?

"In short, JonBon: �This Left Feels Right� killed music. Steve Jobs is the one who helped you profit from that murder."
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Gwiz (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:51am

Kids today have missed the whole experience of putting the headphones on, turning it up to 10, holding the jacket, closing their eyes and getting lost in an album; and the beauty of taking your allowance money and making a decision based on the jacket, not knowing what the record sounded like, and looking at a couple of still pictures and imagining it....

Yep, magical indeed....until you rocked out a bit too hard while you were staring at that album cover and bumped into your turntable, producing a deep 6 inch scratch across your album, leaving you with a whole album side that skipped and repeated....magical.
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Hephaestus (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:53am

Re: Re:
"No, you've got your "B"s wrong - that was Bono."

Sonny or the U2 one???
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Matthew (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:56am

Interesting...
Interesting how he equates that "magical" experience with the music business. In my experience, those moments most often occurred in spite of the recording industry, not because of it.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:56am

Re:
Wow, there are still papers called the Times and the Sunday Times, it's so long since I heard of them online that I thought they were history.
From the sounds of it I haven't been missing much though.
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Gwiz (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:57am

Re: Re: Re:
Sonny or the U2 one???

Both.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 10:58am

The wonderous new world
I have got to say I am rather thankful for the way things are today. If the major labels had their way I would probably never get to listen to the genres that I love most. Sites like Jamendo ( http://www.jamendo.com/en/ ), 8bc ( http://8bc.org/ is 8 bit music / chiptunes), and listening to internet radio through services like Pandora introduce me to tons of new music that I can listen to (and for the sites, download) for free! Because the artists there love what they do, and seek recognition. They do not want to be lost in a world of obscurity, but to be found and appreciated for their skills. So the music is free, and I love the music too. It is a great time for those who want more than just "today's top 40!" junk (I acknowledge that while I think it is junk, there are plenty of people who like it). The music industry is thriving and expanding by leaps and bounds, and it is glorious. Not only that, but I get to actually communicate with the artists. Can't get much cooler than that. I love today's music industry (aside from the current major labels) and would not have been as into music as I am now if the world Bon Jovi loves so much was still the status quo.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sonny did way more damage than Bono ever did.
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Glen, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:01am

Stuck with a whole album.
Oh yes, I remember those days. You buy an album and love about 40% of the songs and skip over the rest because they were crap. I don't miss it at all.
Now? You download the songs you love and you are in complete bliss.
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weneedhelp (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:02am

the beauty of taking your allowance money
and making a decision based on the jacket, not knowing what the record sounded like... then finding out 98% of it was crap and you really only bought the whole album for one song. Jon Bon Blowme, you sucked in the 80's, and you still suck today.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:02am

Re:
Why didn't you?
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DearMrMiller (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:03am

Magic...
Bon Jovi's magical time was when marketing could sell a band based on image and advertising. Now is the magical time that consumers can actually hear the music and decide whether or not it's worth their allowance money.

I used to buy used CD's or records all the time, because you could actually listen to them first in store and make an informed decision. How much of that money spent on used music go to the artist, none.
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Trails, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:03am

What Magical is Not
I don't get this mentality. Magical is not having someone else choose for me. Magical is not choosing music based on album cover (judging a book by its cover).

Magical is "What is this one? Holy shit, this is awesome!"

Besides, Bon Jovi is blaming Steve Jobs for ruining music? Pot, meet something not black. Triumph said it best: "Bon Jovi is great... for me to poop on!"
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:05am

WTF, CD's killed that magical moment, you have to have 20/5 vision to see anything on the jacket of a CD, also I know kids today jack up the sound to 10 still even though they probably loose hearing in their later years, fortunately there are more magical moments, like getting the lyrics and artwork and watching those in a 30" screen and instead of noodling in class people do it online know, this is what really scare those people, that now they are seeing what people where really doing when there was no online thingy. Now they panic and scream bloody murder, I wish it really was since they new will have to be born from the ashes of those dead corpses of the entertainment industry of today.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:07am

Re: Re:
Because nobody could have read the actual story unless they had a subscription and I doubt anyone here does, myself included.
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loof, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:12am

When I was a kid, I used to make weekly trips to Newbury Comics with my friends to get CDs and check out what was new. We had a ton of fun doing it and I found a lot of cool music digging through the used CD bins.

Nowadays, we just IM each other.
Me: "Check out this band"
Friend "OK I'll download it."

More convenient, yes, but I do miss the social part of it all.

The social aspect has kind of died.
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a-dub (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:12am

It was a disappointing time...not magical. What is it with these out of touch musicians pining for the old days of getting screwed over by record companies.

What has been happening in the music industry is basically a long overdue market correction...which they are fighting every step of the way.
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Deirdre (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:13am

Re: Re: Is he serious?
Honestly. Transistor radios plugged in one ear. I'd never want to go back to those days.

I've spent the afternoon listening to Pandora and looking up singers I particularly enjoyed on Amazon.
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Donny (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:13am

I think the really revealing point
Is contained in this sentence:
"in a generation from now people are going to say: 'What happened?'"

As if the upcoming situation is the aberration, and the not-quite-a-century of a recording industry (and only-little-over-half-a-century of Rich Musicians) is the historical norm.

Mick Jagger understands the situation better I think:
http://www.switched.com/2010/05/17/mick-jagger-talks-tech-gives-the-finger-to-the-recording- indust/
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lavi d (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:14am

Presti Digit

I don't know, but it strikes me that today is a much more magical time in terms of what the fans get.
I have a device in my pocket the size of a small matchbox, with 133 hours of music on it, and a pair of gel-capped earbuds that let me feel the bass in my chest - that's magik.
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Gwiz (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sonny did way more damage than Bono ever did.

Yeah. I agree.

But, I believe (no proof) that U2's Bono pioneered the use of AutoTune and that hasn't helped music much either.
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sehlat (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:20am

"Magical Moment"
I take it lysergic acid diethylamide is still available? You'd have to be ingesting it to make a statement like his.
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Trails (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:22am

Re: Re: Is he serious?
Indeed. And for whatever few who bought music "magically" (aka from looking at album covers only) that option is still available to them.

People aren't doing it because they CHOOSE not to.
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Skeptical Cynic (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:24am

Re:
Actually people are kind of talking loudly about Vinyl...

"The year-end SoundScan numbers, released today, have a lot of minus signs. But one big exception is vinyl sales: While the numbers aren't massive, they still rose 14% from 2009 to 2010, according to the Nielsen Company and Billboard's 2010 Music Industry Report. In 2009, 2.5 million vinyl albums were sold; in 2010, that number rose to 2.8 million and cracked the Nielsen SoundScan sales record."

http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/industry/retail/vinyl-posts-14-sales-gain-in-2010-1004137891.stor y
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John Doe, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:26am

Ah yes, the good ole days..
The good ole days are seldom as good as we remember. For instance, I remember popping the hood on the car and breaking out the tools for a tune up. I turned the idle screw on the carburetor to adjust the idle speed, I then adjusted the air/fuel ratio while watching the vacuum gauge, then I broke out the timing light to set the timing. Today with modern computerized, fuel injected cars, I just put the key in the ignition and the damn thing starts! WTH? Where is the fun in that? What am I going to do with all the extra time I use to spend under the hood? Maybe listen to music?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:28am

So he is basically saying: It was such a magical time when we made customers pay for whole albums when only 2 or 3 songs were worthwhile
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:31am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ironically, Cher is at fault there.

Damn you, Sonny!
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Planespotter (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:31am

ahh what a wonderful day, a day that has been a long time coming for me.. I always new John Bon Jovi was an idiot but today the evidence has emerged that will convince everyone else what I have known for decades!
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Planespotter (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:32am

Re:
ggrrr! typos!!
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Berenerd (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:33am

He has his leather panties in a bunch...
Because artists actually have to make good songs to sell an album. The old days they only needed one, maybe two to sell an album, the other 8-10 could be crap
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ComputerAddict (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:36am

Gotta Make a Living
I thoroughly convinced that the only way for artists to get money out of record companies is to get paid to make statements like these.... He probably considers successful artists that embrace new distribution methods are just livin' on prayer and once this Social Disease of sharing music Without Love to the RIAA dies out, the RIAA will be partying Wild in the Streets. This is why he will Never Say Goodbye to the legacy industry. All in favor of kicking this guy to the curb (Or posting him Wanted Dead or Alive) and leave the listeners to Let It Rock...Raise your Hands Dang, Almost figure out how to use the whole slippery when wet album :-\
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Hiiragi Kagami (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:50am

The Hell?
I'll admit I enjoy the song "Little Runaway" by Bon Jovi. Imagine my horror, when I held the jacket containing the song I liked, putting the CD into the player, donning headphones, only to be greeted with the most annoying cat-screeching I've ever heard.

Magical? Not the adjective I would have used.

What's magical is the duping this band did to get millions to pay for CDs to which many only enjoyed two songs, and that's being generous.
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Bob Cochtosten, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:52am

Re: Is he serious?
Listening to a track before purchasing it was what radio was for dumbass.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:53am

Re: Re: Is he serious?
I would not say every album I ever bought was based on having heard it on the radio. Not even close. Radio sucked where I grew up. And mostly it still sucks. I bought music based on the name of the artists who were playing on the record.

And now I am waiting for an electronic world where all music is hyperlinked and accessible in an way that affords the artists a living. I do miss album art though.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:54am

Re: Re:
after i accidentally pirated a vinyl rip of a record instead of a cd rip, and noticed how it wasnt brickwalled as grotesquely as the cd, ive begun to consider dabbling in vinyl myself..
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Ralph (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 11:55am

Sorry Jon Bon, sorry that you are a bit older than me. Because the real magical time was when we put on our headphones and turned it up to 11.

The unmagical time was, when we recognized we were listening to one of your albums, "Cowboy".
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Huph, 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:13pm

Re: Re: Re:
Dive in head first! It really *does* sound better despite the naysayers. The soundstaging is much more realistic, the depth and dynamics are much more pronounced, and the bass is warmer.

And as you said: not so much brickwall limiting nonsense, because physically, you can't drive a mix that hard on vinyl or it will literally make the needle bounce out of the groove. The width of the grooves also forces a certain limitation to how "bassy" the mix can get.

Vinyl is great for older recordings, too, since you get to hear the music in the format the artists were recording for specifically. Hearing Beatles vinyl absolutely puts the modern CD remasters to shame. The depth of the mixes is stunning on the original masters. The vinyl need not be original pressings, either, it can be a 70s/80s reissue and still sound great. (FYI, the late 80s/early 90s are considered by many to be the height of recording fidelity)

The artwork is more impressive on the jackets as well, plus older records often came with all kinds of neat stuff that you can still get when you buy used records. Posters, magazines, ancient catalogs, it's fascinating to sift through, if you're into that sort of thing.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:15pm

Re:
I read that this morning and thought it was a great response!
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Jesse Townley (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:22pm

Buying music based on the cover art
Actually, the good record stores all had (& the surviving ones often still do) turntables and CD players where you could listen to the record or CD before paying for it.

You had to buy based on cover art in the crappier stores, especially if you were buying a non-mainstream album in a genre like punk, since the clerks often knew nothing about it.

Everything else idiotic about this crap musician's statement has already been said in the comments before this one.
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Ted (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:24pm

Yet another ignorant Jersey Shore denizen.
Mr. BonJovi, while nice eye-candy for the ladies is a waste of recording media. They (the band Bon Jovi) laid down some lowest-common-denominator rock in the '80s that sold a lot of Albums and filled a lot of arenas with wet-pantied teenage girls...but did he really add any value to the "Classic Rock" landscape (landfill?)?

Check out this lyrical flatulence:

It's all the same, only the names will change
Everyday it seems we're wasting away
Another place where the faces are so cold
I'd drive all night just to get back home

[Chorus:]
I'm a cowboy, on a steel horse I ride
I'm wanted dead or alive
Wanted dead or alive

Sometimes I sleep, sometimes it's not for days
And the people I meet always go their separate ways
Sometimes you tell the day
By the bottle that you drink
And times when you're alone all you do is think

[Chorus]

I walk these streets, a loaded six string on my back
I play for keeps, 'cause I might not make it back
I been everywhere, and I'm standing tall
I've seen a million faces an I've rocked them all

I'm a cowboy, on a steel horse I ride
I'm wanted dead or alive
I'm a cowboy, I got the night on my side
I'm wanted dead or alive
And I ride, dead or alive
I still drive, dead or alive
Dead or alive [x4]

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

BTW Jon...You're not a cowboy...you're not even close, you're from effing Jersey.
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Gwiz (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:25pm

Re: Ah yes, the good ole days..
Bah. You young whippersnappers. In the good ole days, we didn't have them newfangled auto-mobiles. We walked 14 miles to our one roomed schoolhouse. Uphill both ways. With newspapers tied to our feet for shoes. We didn't have them fancy pants toys either, we played with dirt and sticks and liked it....

(sorry - this whole story kicked up the ghost of my Grandfather and I was channeling for a moment)
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Huph, 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:25pm

Re: Re:
I know I'm kind of old-fashioned (for a 29-year-old), but I don't think the majority of people actually consider blogs or social networks to be, you know, social.

What was it Aaron Sorkin said? "Social networking is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:26pm

Some of the Magical part might have been.

1) Music was analog, much better! Remember digital is just sample. It's not the full deal.
2) It was a bit of a treasure hunt to find music worth spending your cash on. Reading the album liner and looking at the cover art. Listening with someone that had been "the first one to buy". These thing all made that perfect album, perfect.
3) Finding the non-hits hidden on the album that became your favorite. How many times today does someone pay to download a song they don't necessarily like and it grows on them? That was the beauty of buying an album.

I'm sure that kids today will have their special memories also. Like "I remember when we use to have to carry our music in little boxes with a wire to our ear and only 15k songs on it.
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:30pm

Re: Re: Is he serious?
You mean the pre-internet, terrestrial radio that only played what the guy in the station on the other end decided to play? That's the radio you're going to use to sample music on demand? Good luck with that unless you're trying to hear one of the top three most popular songs that month.

(I also enjoyed the random insult, although if I were you I wouldn't be throwing those around with the quality of arguments you've displayed here thus far.)
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Rich, 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:40pm

Re: Yet another ignorant Jersey Shore denizen.
So what? Fogerty wasn't "Born on the Bayou" either, but is still a great artist.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:51pm

Re: Re:
Vinyl sounds way better than MP3s or CDs. A lot of people are going back to it because the sound is so much fuller and richer than what you get with digital music. Too bad vinyl isn't very portable.
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Ben (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 12:58pm

Re: Re:
The funny thing is, vinyl is the one format I still collect! And I am not just talking about the old flea market or antique store vinyl (which I still do look around for) but many new bands still release vinyl in modern times: NIN, Tool, Radiohead, Broken Social Scene, Arcade Fire, Kid Cudi, The White Stripes etc. I have a bunch of vinyl from my Dad that I grew up with in the 80's, and I still collect new stuff that comes out as a hobby. The latest I am looking forward to is the Tron soundtrack by Daft Punk that is coming out next month. I love the sound of vinyl, but I still have an huge collection of CDs all ripped for portability.

What he thinks was lost is wrong. It has now broken free of the old limitations. The old limitations are what was killed, not the love of music.
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Joe: In a Rock Band, 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:01pm

Re: Re: Yet another ignorant Jersey Shore denizen.
Don't knock the arenas filled with girls either. I'm pretty sure that rock & roll is more about impressing girls than anything else.

My musical landscape is a pile of groupie bras in the back of the tour bus.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Is he serious?
I would not say every album I ever bought was based on having heard it on the radio. Not even close.

So how did you find new artists? By PIRATING YOUR FRIEND'S ALBUMS?

Home taping is killing music, folks.
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Joe: In a Rock Band, 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:14pm

Rose-Colored Glasses?
1) Music was analog, much better! Remember digital is just sample. It's not the full deal.

I guess you can pull whatever audio wave you want to prove it to me, but at the current sample rates from iTunes I really can't tell the difference so much that I would spend my spare time weeping over the loss, or blown away by the gain.

2) It was a bit of a treasure hunt to find music worth spending your cash on. Reading the album liner and looking at the cover art. Listening with someone that had been "the first one to buy". These thing all made that perfect album, perfect.

May I argue Selective Memory? How many 10 foot holes did you have to dig up before you hit gold?

3) Finding the non-hits hidden on the album that became your favorite. How many times today does someone pay to download a song they don't necessarily like and it grows on them? That was the beauty of buying an album.

I kinda agree with you there. I think that many a hit is just an introduction to something better. Personally, I pull up the album that has the single, and sample everything else. Typically I find a song or two that has low popularity, but's really good.
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crade (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Don't forget the frying bacom sound... mmmm bacon.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:19pm

Re: Re:
Twitter? Facebook? Blogs? Or don't they count?

I use all three and none really recreate the record store experience for me (as an over the hill 35 year old). But, then again, what can recreate the cool experiences one has as a 19 year old...
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crade (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:22pm

Re: Re: Re:
I love vinyl for nostalia, but I am starting to have second thoughts about collecting vinyl.. Turns out it's still kinda big and heavy. I only have a smallish collection but it's still probably the hardest out of everything I own to move.
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Josef Anvil (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:23pm

Hmmmmm
Ok only two things explain the statement from Jon Bon Jovi. Either A, it was written by a label exec or B, Jon Bon Jovi needs rehab for all the drugs he's been taking.

Maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but by the time Jon Bon Jovi was a hit, his band wasn't on vinyl, but rather on cassettes and just switching to CDs. If he is remembering his childhood of vinyl, then why is he blaming Steve Jobs? iTunes didn't have anything to do with the death of vinyl and you can look at cover art on iTunes just like you could on cassettes and CDs, so Im not sure what kind of acid trip he is on.

Personally I don't remember EVER buying a record based on the cover art. I may have bought an album and thought the cover art was cool afterwards, but I bought based on some song I heard on the radio or heard about through friends.
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m3mnoch (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
+1 to this entire thread.

m3mnoch.
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Benjamin (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:29pm

It's easy to be wistful for a time when you were rich because you were one of ten artists actually getting airplay, and your record was one of the ten conveniently displayed in your local record store.

About a year ago he did an interview on NPR's Fresh Air. A coworker was a big fan of his, and I referred her to the website so she could listen to the archived audio. There was a message there saying that the audio could not be archived due to "contractual obligations" or some such crap. I've never, ever seen that with any other interview.

He's a fossil. Good riddance. If that's music, I hope Steve Jobs feels well enough to dance on its grave.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:37pm

It must be really magical when you spend $12 an album but only has one or two good songs on it. This feeling must be very magical to fans and artist's bank account.

BTW, who buys an album base on the art work on the jacket?
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CommonSense (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:43pm

This.
This is what killed the "Music Industry" if you really need something to point at Jon B.J.

"the beauty of taking your allowance money and making a decision based on the jacket, not knowing what the record sounded like"...
...Then getting home and realizing that the record was pure and utter GARBAGE, and you had just wasted your hard earned allowance money. Nobody wants to pay for crap anymore, but that's all the major labels want to put out.... it really is. that. simple.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 1:48pm

Re: Re: Re:
Actually, I would agree with that.
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kevin, 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:01pm

Re: He has his leather panties in a bunch...
i think bon jovi is wrong, but i also think it's funny that people think that the new way of doing things means that more music is good. maybe we get less "crap" since we can buy individual songs, but we also rarely get exposed to the experience of an "album" that often told a story. this isn't because of digital media, but mostly because of pop music in general. they still only produce a couple "pop" songs that are worth listening to, and then the rest of their album stinks. so we don't have to purchase it all i guess that's a win for us. i just don't feel like it's truly giving us exposure to better music yet. the record labels still control most of what goes on and still produce mostly garbage.

as more indie's break out though, we'll get better music. and that is now easier than in the radio + tour days.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:08pm

Re:
Sorry if everyone thought I was getting down on vinyl. I know vinyl has lots of value and advantages - and it makes a great specialty item. I have a small collection of records I cherish. But if you think it's going to be a driving force in music distribution, you're kidding yourself - the sonic improvements are meaningless to the majority of people, especially when weighed against the convenience of digital music.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:09pm

Re: Re: Re:
Social networks are absolutely social. If you aren't sure about that, go talk to a fourteen-year-old (if you can pry them away from Facebook for five minutes)
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crade (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:09pm

Re: This.
You bought slippery when wet too eh?
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Marcus Carab (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:13pm

Re: Re: Re:
it's not about "recreating" experiences, but creating new experiences that have just as much value to the people using them as record stores did to their customers in their heyday.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:16pm

Re: What Magical is Not
Magical is "What is this one? Holy shit, this is awesome!"

So incredibly well said!

Nothing to me is more enjoyable in the world of music than a friend sending me a youtube link, me thinking 'ugh i don't really want to listen to this right now' but clicking on it anyway, then feeling the giant grin spread across my face...
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
it's not about "recreating" experiences, but creating new experiences that have just as much value to the people using them as record stores did to their customers in their heyday.

---

Which takes us back to my original point. No one has seemed to fully re/create that yet for me.
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cybernia (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:26pm

he's right
I'm no fan of Bon Jovi's music or the record industry, but I have to agree with much of what he says. I have mixed feelings about invisible culture. On one hand it's great to be able to download the music. On the other hand, I do miss the days of vinyl. I regret the day I sold off my 2,000+ albums. The days of "accidental culture" are fast fading. It used to be you would go to someone's place and peruse their record collection and see something and say, "Hey, this looks cool. Can we hear some of it?

And books, same basic thing. You'd look over their collection of books and pick one, skim through it.

Tactile culture.

Speaking of books, I still occasionally go the library and look through the stacks to see what might be of interest.

Accidental culture is replaced by invisible culture.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:26pm

Re:
I can still rip and bootleg that vinyl LoL

http://www.synthgear.com/2010/diy/how-to-pirate-a-vinyl-record/

Best of all there is no DRM possible on that crap although it sounds awful, with all the clicking sounds vinyl is still good for some things I guess I just don't know what.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:26pm

Ahhhh liner notes, AOR's, Black Light Day Glo environments, Low Grade THC Weed, and gods food from Ram Dass. The good old days.

I'm so happy I don't have to blow $5 on vinyl and cardboard, only to find one song that I like.

I'm glad the day of one earpiece am radio is gone, and that ow I can have all the music I want to listen to at hand.

To hell with the old, in with the new.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:39pm

Re: Rose-Colored Glasses?
1) Maybe because you haven't listen much to analog? Even after spending most of my life listen to albums, I thought CD's were great! Then I started noticing that what I first thought of as "clear" or "sharp" was really lack of depth. I don't have a "trained" ear by any means, but digital just seems "cutoff" for lack of a better term.

2) Many holes for sure, kind of like downloading a $.99 song and hearing it played everywhere the next two months and never wanting to hear it again. Many holes but many diamond, silver and rubies along with the gold and holes.
3) I guess we'll never again hear the term "released as the B side of X record, this song went on to be their #1 hit..."

There are only some things I miss about the old days and I think that's is partly what Jovi was saying. There are good things about digital too. File sharing, MP3 players, downloads, are all great. With Napster I did discover many (mostly old) artist that I ended up purchasing and/or enjoying their music. Will they destroy the music industry... maybe. Will there still be music...yes. Will there be another Elvis or Beatles (artist that last over 20 years) I really have my doubts. They were created after all by the music industry! Is that good or bad...I don't know. Is it as good to have an great artist that no one hears because there isn't any marketing...again, I don't know.
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Jon B. (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:41pm

You know what's fucking magical? Grooveshark.

You can open Grooveshark, just start typing stuff and it starts playing damned near instantly. Plus, it's easy to find related or similar things. That's fucking magic.

Spending $15 on a disc with one decent song is not magical.

Now, there is something to be said for *good* albums - 40+ minutes of 12 songs with a similar theme, or even a complete symphony like Pink Floyd albums. That's something you miss out on by buying $0.99 songs one at a time.

But you know what does albums well (sometimes)? Grooveshark :)
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crade (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You have to take the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia off first :)
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Jon B. (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 2:48pm

Re: he's right
I think you mean "tangible culture" and I don't know what you mean by "accidental culture" - it's still easy to stumble upon great things through your friends online or even in person without browsing their bookshelf.

Now, one thing that's kinda sad is that the culture is so diverse now. You used to be able to assume most people watched a decent show on ABC last night at 8pm. Now, we're moving away from watching our media at scheduled times, and there is not a LOT more media. But the good news is that the good stuff is bubbling to the top, so there is still a "mainstream" set to media to cling to as a culture.

As for the tactile nature of media... I think technology can catch up in some ways by making things more fun to hold.

But, maybe it's better that we define our culture and ourselves by our interactions with others, our societal accomplishments and our independent thought than by our collections of fictional works and rhythmic noise.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 3:54pm

He's correct. Jobs turned the Sony Walkman into an mp3 player costing hundreds of dollars. Kids can't afford to buy music anymore because they spent it all on an iPod.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 4:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Fair enough. Which is why the second half of your point is really the most important - nothing will recreate what anyone did in their youth. But, the new youth will continue to have just as valuable and, to use the word of the day, magical experiences.
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Ash Crill, 15 Mar 2011 @ 4:39pm

Re:
Really? Music discussion forums don't count?

The cool thing about digital distribution is how you can create online 'record stores', or communities, and talk about music with people from all over the globe.

Yes, plenty of people just skip straight to the music, but those aren't the sort of people who would have spent time in record shops either.

The internet is enthusiast heaven, for music and a million other hobbies.
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mrtraver (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 6:06pm

It's obvious
that Mr. Bon Jovi has never sat down and actually listened to his albums all the way through. I used to force myself to listen to every song on a new cassette at least once, so I would know which ones to skip using music search or my own mixtapes. I heard "King of the Mountain" and "(I Don't Wanna Fall)To the Fire" from 7800� Fahrenheit voluntarily exactly once.
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jonbonblowme, 15 Mar 2011 @ 7:34pm

woopersnappers
Ok. This guy is not much older than me and I am embarrassed by his crotchetiness and he makes me feel older than I think I am and I hate that. I love music. I do miss the albums. just for the large art and nice sized printed lyrics and pictures on the jacket. had to record those to tape to play in the car. buying tapes killed that though. and many did because they wanted portable for their walkman and car. 30 years ago the record was already almost dead. CDs were a step up from tapes and very magic! no more fast forward and rewind, song start auto detect, auto reverse and stupid bullshit like that. The magic really happened with mp3s and other digital formats. thats the fucking magic!! getting ripped off buying a shitty record based on whoever did the album art is stupid, and only magical to a dumbass. Is it magical when you buy a car and it turns out to be a piece of shit? (+10 car analogy.) I dont think so. I love having the album art on my zune and stuff though and it is just as good and better to me as back in the day. I love browsing my 350 GB music collection even more than going through and trying to organize albums. much more to geek out on! tag that shit! What a dick, this guy is living on a prayer.
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moneyandtime, 15 Mar 2011 @ 7:42pm

how much?
was a walkman in 1984?

.....as much as an ipod is now! then you had to buy tapes and those got lost, wore out, and eaten.

it sucked.

i dont like steve blow jobs one bit but he didnt do a thing to make music cost prohibitive for people as you state.

and he wasnt the first to do that so would not even deserve that credit if it were true!
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itisthesamenow, 15 Mar 2011 @ 7:54pm

Re: he's right but not
my friends come over now an browse through 350GB of music and say "hey lets listen to this." they browse my audio books, e-books, videos, movies, etc. and I give them what ever they want and they don't have to bring it back. so what is the difference besides that you could only loan your friends music instead of give it to them? same with the books. why go to the library? there are thousands of books on line for sale and free. I put 'em on my kindle. its way lighter than a book, is easy on the eyes like a book, and holds thousands of them in one.I do admit, i like the smell of real books. If they made my kindle smell that way it would be bad ass.
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cybernia (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 8:25pm

Re: Re: he's right
Yeah, I guess tangible would be a better word. But tactile works.

Accidental culture is just the way I described it, finding an album or book in a friend's collection that looks interesting.

Also, browsing in a bookstore or library. I can't tell you how many books I've bought/borrowed by just looking around in a bookstore or library. As everything goes more invisible, the less chance you have of finding that.

Amazon, Pandora. Netflix et al can "recommend" books, records, movies, but as good as that is, what is lost is the thrill of accidentally stumbling upon something yourself.

I looked forward to hitting the used record stores each week not knowing what I'd find. I remember one find, "Quacky Duck and his Barnyard Friends." Yes, it was the cover and title that made me pick it up. What I found was that it was a record by a bunch of name bluegrass players that just got together to cut a light, fun record.

I also picked up the original London cast recording of Rocky Horror before anyone knew what that was. Yeah, it was the cover.

After I sold my record collection I wished I would have held onto those weird obscure records that will never, ever see the light of day again, in any form.

Oh and one final thing, I was my own DJ when I had my records. At times, especially when people were over, I would play one song at a time from different albums, taking the next one out while another song was playing. And other people would scan the collection and pick out records and suggest songs. You can do that now with a few clicks and sit back. But with that old school method you were actively involved in each song, one at a time.

I'm a huge tech fan. I do it for a living, but there are some old school things I miss.
Okay, I'm finished ;-)
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Mar 2011 @ 8:48pm

Welcome to the long list of uneducated, uninformed and generally stupid performers whom think it is the internet that killed their income.

Look inward and you will see what killed your income. YOU!

You suck, you haven't put out a good album since your first. And now you talk this crap cause you can't compete.

ID10T error!
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Tom Landry (profile), 15 Mar 2011 @ 9:54pm

*marks down Jon Bon Jovi's words.....*
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techflaws.org (profile), 16 Mar 2011 @ 12:05am

Re:
Exactly. Crappy music like John's killed the album.
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bilalhouri (profile), 16 Mar 2011 @ 3:18am

You're missing the point
You're missing the point. What Jon meant was that decades ago, we used to enjoy going to the corner music shop, and get our hands dirty for old LPs and CDs, just to find that amazing album that we knew nothing about. The "experience" of going to the music store is dead. I have more than 2,000 physical CDs back home, I heard each and every one of them, I've been a CD collector for more than 18 years, and you don't get that with today's digital music,
Steve Jobs has done a great job for the music business, but both Steve Jobs and file sharing had killed the passion for buying music albums.
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freak (profile), 16 Mar 2011 @ 5:49am

Re: Re:
Yes, this.

I agree despite the fact that I'm a record collector.

Because honestly, one small external hard drive filled with FLAC's, or an an entire basement filled with milk crates of records?
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JEDIDIAH, 16 Mar 2011 @ 6:54am

Don't trust anyone over 30.
This isn't about you or Jon or me or any other old fogey.

It's a different generation's time.
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Joe: In a Rock Band, 16 Mar 2011 @ 7:07am

Re: You're missing the point
How about putting a different view on it. It didn't kill the passion for buying albums, it refined the passion down to those who genuinely had it.

Someone up above mentioned that sales of records actually increased last year, and I bought that statment without even reading the report. It's actually a little easier to find a record player right now in my town than a cassette player, and in the music shops that remain (definitely less than before, but that's change for you), new records are are on the shelves. Not quite as much real estate as the CDs, but it doesn't look like it's going anywhere soon.

So maybe not everyone browses racks and and listens to entire albums, hunting for the song they can't help but listen to over and over again. Maybe not everyone was cut out for it? I know that I like the new way of doing things much more, and have actually bought more music since I bought an iPod than before. I realized fast that I didn't want to shell out my hard earned dollars for the songs I didn't want.

So maybe there are less people doing the album thing, maybe that's for the better now, because although it's a smaller population, it's now down to the people who had a genuine love for it, than just doing it because they had no alternative.
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Call me Al, 16 Mar 2011 @ 7:08am

Re: he's right
"The days of "accidental culture" are fast fading. It used to be you would go to someone's place and peruse their record collection and see something and say, "Hey, this looks cool. Can we hear some of it?"

Except when you go to a friends house and are browsing through their MP3 collection and spot somoene you've not heard of. You chat about it and play a bit. Hmm that sounds somewhat familiar.

Also the accidental findings, I've lost count of the number of tracks I've bought as a result of hearing them on random YouTube videos or them being suggested by Last Fm. I didn't hunt them down, thy came to me.
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CommonSense (profile), 16 Mar 2011 @ 8:16am

Re: he's right
That's blatantly false. Just because you don't know where to look for something, doesn't mean it's not there.

Name an artist you like to a service like Pandora, and just watch as new stuff you might be interested in starts popping up in your playlist.

Record stores moved online, but that doesn't stop you from browsing through sections looking for new stuff like you used to in an actual brick and mortar store.

A sense of nostalgia over something does not make it better.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 16 Mar 2011 @ 9:29am

Magic?
Hey Bon Jovi, you know what's magical?

Dropping 5,000 songs into your pocket and going about your day.

Getting a tweet directly from the artist.

Hearing a Bon Jovi song you hated remixed by someone else in a way that surprises, thrills, and makes you appreciate it.

Going to a place where you can not only see the album artwork, but keep up on what the artist is doing, look at photos, watch videos, read the lyrics, see tour dates, send fan mail, buy t-shirts, and basically interact with the artist in a way you NEVER could in the old days.

These are magical times.
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BigKeithO (profile), 16 Mar 2011 @ 9:44am

Re: Re: Re:
Can't you just get one of those USB turntables (here's a couple reviews) and rip your own vinyl tracks to MP3? Seems like you'd still get the same sound as it originated from vinyl in the first place...
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JEDIDIAH, 16 Mar 2011 @ 11:15am

...place shifting in the 70s.
> was a walkman in 1984?

Cheap enough that a kid with a paper route in a working class neighborhood could easily afford one. They weren't nearly as expensive as an iPod.

Keep in mind that there was nothing to drive a Sony dominated market here. You didn't need to get your "walman" from Sony. Any cheap knockoff would do. All devices all played the same media.

There was never a time when only an Sony Walkman could play an audio tape. (in contrast to the Apple situation)

...as far as "tapes" go, it was really very trivial to copy them. If you lost or destroyed a tape, you really have no one to blame for yourself. Infact, it was even easier than it is now. All you needed was one of the ubiquitous dual cassette decks for a home stereo. Press play on deck one and then record on deck 2.

Instant rip/copy. No computing skills required.

The same people that ask other people to copy Photo CD's for them now were able to deal with copying tapes.
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Klod, 17 Mar 2011 @ 2:01pm

Think you listened - think again.
Just kind of had to leave a comment here.

Lots of people say they download the songs they like from an album, but what about the rest of the songs? You never cave them a try if you didn't listen to them in the right context...

Also, IMO, too much music these days are made for the charts and iTunes, not for the experience of an album, or to be played out LOUD on a Stadium.

AND

If you think you listen to music when you have an earplug in your ear and are out running, driving, cooking, taking the bus etc. Go think again.

Listening to music as an art is when you go through the whole experience. You choose the product, you get exited and can't wait to buy it, to listen to it. You open the jacket, take out the book, read the book, follows the listening guidance. Gets excited.
You place yourself comfortable in the best chair you have, turns up the speakers and dives into the song, the music the artist. Leaves everything else outside.

If you haven't tried that, you have never given the musician a change to tell you their story.

Steve Jobs, he killed that excitement.

So am I a BJ fan, yes I have their albums and go to their concerts, but I'm not a huge fan.
I'm a fan of good and blessed musicians and I do rate Richie Samboras album "Stranger in this Town" as one of my by far best musical experiences ever.
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mevsyou, 17 Mar 2011 @ 2:08pm

what about the magic of looking at the album covers online. The album art on a cassette was small and horrible (couldnt even read the lyrics). Vinyl was cool to look at but it never did anything magical (unless im missing something). I love the way it is now. I watch you tube with orignal, live, demos of the bands I know or I'm giving a shot. I can make an informed decision instantly... buy an album with your allowance then it sucked then you have to wait till next allowance. I invested 3000-4000 in CDs.... what a waste today. I do agree with this technology less people will form bands and thus less to listen too (i believe bands only make coin by touring... could be wrong)
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cb, 17 Mar 2011 @ 2:19pm

more to do?
I use to browse and buy albums and CDs.... because there was less to do. These days we have so much entertainment to pick from. I'll download, put on my ipod, listen to it walking or driving and go do something else other that be infatuated with a band who are selling themselves. It was all about imagine in the 80's and 90% of the reason Bon Jovi made money off idiots like you and I.
My friend still collects vinyl and I laugh at him. While he searches for that awesome scratched up album I've already played 3 songs from different bands on my ipod.
Greedy musicians, producers etc are killing the industry... just as the greedy athletes and owners will kill sports franchises... more to do than spend your $ on this people who consider you stupid & naive
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Mike Paladino, 17 Mar 2011 @ 2:48pm

More Old Rockers Shooing Those Darn Kids Off Their Lawn
We are bringing more older and more kids to our concerts. The DooWop days are coming back. Nostalgia is the thing with our gigs. We don't count to much on our downloads. Of course, we are not a national name but we are packing the house. MJP
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The Moonlites (profile), 17 Mar 2011 @ 4:05pm

Bon Jovi Thinks Steve Jobs Killed Music
I forgot to mention, I think it is a good thing to choose your favorite song(s) then to be stuck buying the whole CD cuts.
With this economy, a person might walk away from buy the entire CD.
MJP
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PapaSmurf, 14 Dec 2011 @ 3:06am

He's exactly right, and described it perfectly in a few words. Going into a store and browsing the album covers, with every artise being unique and distinctive and reflected as so in that album artwork, they were windows into other worlds. Worlds of possibilites of what you could be, much different from the bland, humdrum, mind-numbingly boring world around me and most other people who were growing up in the sixties and early seventies. That's really what it was all about, taking you out of your tiny, boring existence in a reality created by your parents and their generation and saying 'look at this and listen to this, see what's possible'. MTV started the downslide to music as just entertainment, musice downloads pushed it off the cliff. Anyone that did not grow up in that time as a rock music fan can't really understand the difference, but for a reality check name any artist that's come along in the last 20 years that could even come close to the creative genius of so many artists from that magical period.
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