Gladwell Logic: There Was War Before Nuclear Bombs Existed, Thus Nukes Have No Impact On War

from the make-your-own dept

Wed, Mar 30th 2011 1:17pm — Mike Masnick

In what can be considered impeccably poor timing, last fall, Malcolm Gladwell penned a silly article in the New Yorker, insisting that social media is useless for revolutions or civil actions because it doesn't involve real personal connections, but only weak ones. Of course, in the months immediately following Gladwell's piece, we've seen massive protests show up all over the Middle East, with nearly all of them making significant use of social networking tools for organization. And while I agree that it's silly to give too much credit to social networks, it's undeniable that such things have become a key tool used by protestors these days, and almost certainly has helped their ability to organize and disseminate necessary info.

All of that might make a lesser man reconsider the original faulty premise. But not Gladwell. Not only is he standing by his initial thesis, he's backing it up with the intellectually void argument that because people organized and toppled governments prior to Twitter, it means that Twitter isn't a big deal in these protests and regime changes:

I mean, in East Germany, a million people gathered in the streets of Berlin. They were - the percentage of people in East Berlin in East Germany who even had a telephone in 1989 was 13 percent, right?

So, I mean, in cases where there are no tools of communication, people still get together. So I don't see that as being a - in looking at history, I don't see the absence of efficient tools of communication as being a limiting factor on the ability people to socially

In other words, if something happened before a technology came about, then technology has no impact on it later on. This is laughably bad logic. Just because something happened without technology X, doesn't mean that technology X has no impact on it. Of course, this has now created something of a meme on Twitter, kicked off by Jeff Jarvis, called #GladwellLogic, in which you try to apply that same logic to other things. Jarvis kicked it off by pointing out:

#GladwellLogic: People were smart before there were books, therefore books don't make us smarter.

It's not hard to come up with your own examples:

#GladwellLogic: Wars happened before there were nuclear weapons, submarines, machine guns or airplanes. Therefore, none of those things impact war.
#GladwellLogic: People got from point A to point B before there were cars. Therefore, cars have no impact on transportation.
#GladwellLogic: People produced stuff prior to there being electric lighting. Therefore, lightbulbs had no impact on productivity.
#GladwellLogic: People made music before machines could record it. Therefore, recorded music had no impact on music.

Try and create your own...

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Filed Under: logic, malcolm gladwell, revolutions, social media

51 Comments

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duffmeister (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 12:45pm

#GladwellLogic: People produced creative works before copyright. Therefore, copyright had no impact on creative works.

< / sarcasm >
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Dark Helmet (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 1:20pm

#GladwellLogic: People said things that caused my brain to melt in horror before Malcolm Gladwell learned to speak, therefore Malcom Gladwell's nonsense doesn't impact my brain function....
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2011 @ 1:29pm

#GladwellLogic: A homo-sapien was conceived before there were homo-sapiens so therefore the existence of homo-sapiens has no effect on the conception of homo-sapiens.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2011 @ 1:40pm

#GladwellLogic: I write things down before I think, therefore thinking doesn't help me write.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2011 @ 1:52pm

#GladwellLogic: There was music before piracy, so piracy has no effect on music

#GladwellLogic: There was misleading media before techdirt, therefore techdirt has no effect on media.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2011 @ 1:54pm

$Fallout: War, War never changes...
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Markus Hopkins (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 1:57pm

#GladwellLogic: The internet existed before trolls, therefore trolls have no impact on the internet.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 1:58pm

Re:
#GladwellLogic: There were trolls before the Internet, therefore the Internet has no effect on trolls.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 1:58pm

Re:
No, no, the other way around. Trolls have existed for eons. The Internet is new.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:17pm

And while I agree that it's silly to give too much credit to social networks.

Really? A quick search through TD for "social network" clearly shows that you are a huge fan, and keep defending them, selling your readers their magical benefits and preaching for them.
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Gwiz (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:18pm

#GladwellLogic: There were people writing dumb articles before Gladwell, therefore Gladwell's article has no impact on the collective human intelligence. (Thankfully)
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Gwiz (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:22pm

Re:
#GladwellLogic: There have been many who have missed the point of a statement before this comment, therefore this comment has no impact. Period.
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CK (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:30pm

#GladwellLogic: The Earth was around long before there was life on it, therefore humans, as a form of life, have no impact on the Earth.
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Markus Hopkins (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:37pm

Re: Re:
I was thinking about that, and the fact that what we classify as trolls today have had many other names in the past, and how the internet has made their job so much easier. But since "trolling" is a new term, and it's arguable that the addition of anonymity and lack of any need for restraint have really created something new here, I decided to go the other way.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:38pm

Re:
And there were spammers before you. We get the point.
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bdhoro (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:42pm

Don't hate on Gladwell
In this case, Gladwell is guilty of believing his own opinion. As Malcolm tends to do excellent research, I'm sure he's found plenty of evidence to back up his theory and so he believes it with much of his cognitive power.

Mike, you are quite guilty of the same, and so are most people. I mean, isn't it our nature to believe our own opinions? Even when there's apparent evidence against us.

Clearly his premise was wrong, as the revolution has been tweeted. But of course we all know if it wasn't twitter it would be something else. Revolutions are social phenomena, any type of social network will have some effect.
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Chris in Utah (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:46pm

Re: Re:
#GladwellLogic: There was the HitchHikers guide before the Internet, therefore the troll has no effect on vogons
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Chris in Utah (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:47pm

Re: Re: Re:
#GladwellLogic 2.0 ^
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:52pm

#GladwellLogic: Sex was around long before contraceptives, therefore contraceptives have no impact on sex.

#GladwellLogic: Computers were around long before the internet, therefore the internet has no impact on computers.

#GladwellLogic: I have been around long before my son, therefore my son has no impact on me.

#GladwellLogic: The human body has been around long before medicine, therefore medicine has no impact on the human body.

This is fun, because it is so easy. I could keep going all day.
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The eejit (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 2:54pm

Re: Don't hate on Gladwell
I don't believe my own opinions, but that's because it usually advocates copyright.
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 3:06pm

Re:
#GladwellLogic: There was music before piracy, so piracy has no effect on music

I don't know if you intended this as some kind of dig at TD, but if so, I wholeheartedly agree that the statement is fallacious.

I don't think anyone here thinks piracy has zero effect on music. For example, I think it has a decidedly positive effect!
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2011 @ 3:23pm

#GladwellLogic: Public shaming was around long before the internet, therefore the internet has no impact on public shaming.
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Ken Gross, 30 Mar 2011 @ 3:27pm

GladwellLogic
#GladwellLogic Single cell organisms reproduce asexually, therefore sex does not lead to reproduction.
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Pickle Monger (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 3:29pm

#GladwellLogic New Yorker published articles before there was Malcolm Gladwell. Therefore, Malcolm Gladwell is irrelevant.
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Ron (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 3:37pm

Still Some Validity
"So, I mean, in cases where there are no tools of communication, people still get together. So I don't see that as being a - in looking at history, I don't see the absence of efficient tools of communication as being a limiting factor on the ability people to socially"

Actually, reading this, there is a valid point to be made: that, the absence of efficient communications tools does not limit the ability of people to interact. It may impede that interaction by adding significant time delay but there are many means to communicate that do not require direct interaction. For example: 1000 years ago, people separated by 1000 miles wrote letters to each other.

What I see missing the logic is the point, already made, that efficient forms of communications increase the speed at which the personal interaction occurs. Moreover, there is still the issue that in many of these protest uprisings, person to person communications would still be fairly efficient because the population density allows word of mouth to quickly pass neighboorhood to neighboorhod without the need of the physical carrier to travel any great distance.
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monkyyy, 30 Mar 2011 @ 3:52pm

life came before death therefore death has no effect on life
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 4:10pm

This one's handy for many situations...
#Gladwell Logic: I was a virgin long before I got laid, therefore getting laid has no impact on my virginity.
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HM, 30 Mar 2011 @ 4:27pm

Re: Re:
There were vaginas before this guy ^ learned to type therefore this guy ^ has no effect on vaginas
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2011 @ 4:45pm

Actually, why you think most governaments want to censor or control the internet in some way?
less leaks, more information control, and also control over who might be "revelious".
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 30 Mar 2011 @ 4:53pm

And In The End ...
... this posting existed before any of the replies to it, therefore those replies have no effect on this posting.
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Brandon Steele, 30 Mar 2011 @ 4:55pm

Re:
Are you really surprised that a website called "TechDirt" would have several hits when you search for "social network"? It's only one of the most common phrases you'll find in any media referring to modern technology. Was there any point in pointing that out. Of course they are a fan of social networking as well. Who isn't?
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technomage (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 5:04pm

#GladwellLogic: Porn was around before the internet, therefore the internet has no effect on Porn (yeah right!)
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vivaelamor (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 5:04pm

#GladwellLogic: There was philosophy before Plato existed, therefore Plato had no impact on philosophy
His logic can be expressed simply as:

A (historical protests)
B (development of efficient communication tools)
C (contemporary protests)

Because A happened and is similar to C, B did not cause/impact C.

He may be right about B not causing C, but A does not prove that. A proves that A can happen without B, not that C can happen without B.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 6:03pm

BONUS!
Once Gladwell is run into the ground, there's more fun to be had coining your own Greenspanism/Greenspan logic, teeing off from this choice quote:

"Today�s competitive markets, whether we seek to recognise it or not, are driven by an international version of Adam Smith�s �invisible hand� that is unredeemably opaque. With notably rare exceptions (2008, for example), the global �invisible hand� has created relatively stable exchange rates, interest rates, prices, and wage rates.

The comment thread here:

http://crookedtimber.org/2011/03/30/with-notably-rare-exceptions/

is particularly enjoyable. Some contenders:

"With notably rare exceptions, Mrs. Lincoln enjoyed the play."

"With notably rare exceptions, locking all exits to the workplace is a harmless way to improve your employees� productivity."

"With notably rare exceptions, Rhett Butler did give a damn."
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Mar 2011 @ 6:21pm

Re: Re:
LOADS of people.
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abc gum, 30 Mar 2011 @ 6:29pm

#GladwellLogic: There was life on earth before humans, therefore humans have no affect upon the earth
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Gwiz (profile), 30 Mar 2011 @ 6:48pm

Re: Re:
And there were spammers before you. We get the point.

#GladwellLogic: There was Spam before the internet, therefore Spam is still yummy...with mayo and lettuce on white bread, and some chips, maybe a Kosher dill pickle, and a nice cold glass of milk.......sorry, I'm a bit hungry.....where was I?
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The eejit (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 1:38am

Re: BONUS!
"With notably rare exception, Clinton did not have sex with that woman."
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Mar 2011 @ 2:26am

#techdirtlogic: When someone tries to patent something old on a computer, it is not novel. However, when protestors organize and protest on a computer, it is novel.

#techdirtlogic: Malcolm Gladwell has written a thoughtful, eloquent, and subtle piece questioning the role and impact of social media in the evolving world of protesting. However, that is too hard to understand so we will oversimplify his position and then make fun of him for it.

#gladwelllogic: Protests and revolutions have happened with both rich and poor technologies to facilitate them. Therefore, we cannot assume that the lack of these technologies would prevent these movements from happening. Big revolutions seem to be fostered by strong relationships among revolutionaries, which may be facilitated by, but are not necessarily created by, social networks.

#techdirtlogic: MALCOLM GLADWELL SAID TECHNOLOGY HAS NO IMPACT ON REVOLUTIONS HA HA WHAT AN IDIOT.
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Chris in Utah (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 6:23am

Re:
Sarcasm had its beginnings in irony. There for irony has no affect on wait... what?
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vivaelamor (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 6:36am

Re:
"#gladwelllogic: Protests and revolutions have happened with both rich and poor technologies to facilitate them. Therefore, we cannot assume that the lack of these technologies would prevent these movements from happening. Big revolutions seem to be fostered by strong relationships among revolutionaries, which may be facilitated by, but are not necessarily created by, social networks."

If only he'd said that. You'd think that as a writer he'd be better able to express himself.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 7:12am

Re: Re:
Can it really be classified as Gladwell Logic when it is a true statement?
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 7:18am

Re: Re: Re:
Going meta.

#GladwellLogic: There was truth before Gladwell Logic, therefore GladwellLogic has no impact on the truth.
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xenomancer (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 7:21am

Re: Still Some Validity
"It may impede that interaction by adding significant time delay"

That constitutes a significant limitation on communication.

Rates matter!

If you don't believe me, ask the people trying to remove the heat from the reactors in Japan to just wait for the heat to leave on its own. Communication used to be more of a globally diffusion driven spread of knowledge and ideas. Now it is more advective at the global level, with direct transmission of ideas, and still somewhat diffusive at the local level.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 7:21am

Re: Re: Re:
I prefer a good Spam & egg sandwich on white or wheat, with very little mayo. Mmmm breakfast .. or anything of day sandwich.
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xenomancer (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 7:24am

Re: Re: BONUS!
So THAT'S why he has a daughter!

(+1 for killing the joke?)
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xenomancer (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 7:32am

#GladwellLogic: Larry King existed before dinosaurs, therefore dinosaurs have no impact on Larry King.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 10:30am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Don't know if I should congratulate you on that one or run in horror. I will get back to you later.
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Cowardly Anon, 31 Mar 2011 @ 12:33pm

#GladwellLogic: People invented things before patents existed, therefore patents have no impact on inventing.
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hmm (profile), 31 Mar 2011 @ 3:00pm

ignoring
#gladwelllogic: people ignored things before gladwell, therefore ignoring gladwell from now on won't impact gladwell......
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kyle clements (profile), 4 Apr 2011 @ 3:09pm

Re: Still Some Validity
It has been quite a while since I read Gladwell's original article, so I'm not sure if this was addressed or not, but is it possible that the speed and quantity of weak connections that build social networks overpower the much smaller number of strong personal connections?

100 real-life followers may matter far more than 100 twitter followers, but what about 1 000 000 twitter followers vs. 100 real life followers?

I can mail out 100 letters and get 20 RSVPs, half of which actually show up.
Or I send out 1000 facebook invites, have 10% click "attend" and only 10% of those actually show up.

In both cases, the same number of people show up.

At what point does quantity overpower quality?
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