Homeland Security Demands Mozilla Remove Firefox Extension That Redirects Seized Domains
from the touchy,-huh? dept
Apparently, the folks at Homeland Security are not at all pleased with the very, very simple Firefox extension, called MAFIAAfire, that negates ICE's domain seizures, by automatically rerouting users to alternate domains. Apparently, DHS demanded that Mozilla take the extension down from its listing of Firefox extensions claiming that the add-on "circumvented" DHS's seizure orders. Thankfully, Mozilla didn't just fold, but instead left it up and sent DHS a list of questions concerning the request. The list of questions is really fantastic, as it goes way beyond the direct request to really get to the heart of the questionable nature of ICE's activity with domain seizures:To help us evaluate the Department of Homeland Security's request to take-down/remove the MAFIAAfire.com add-on from Mozilla's websites, can you please provide the following additional information:It's always nice to see some organizations not just roll over when the government comes calling. Kudos to Mozilla for not just refusing to takedown MAFIAAfire, but for also asking serious questions of DHS. Of course, DHS has refused to respond at all...
1. Have any courts determined that MAFIAAfire.com is unlawful or illegal in any way? If so, on what basis? (Please provide any relevant rulings)
2. Have any courts determined that the seized domains related to MAFIAAfire.com are unlawful, illegal or liable for infringement in any way? (please provide relevant rulings)
3. Is Mozilla legally obligated to disable the add-on or is this request based on other reasons? If other reasons, can you please specify.
4. Has DHS, or any copyright owners involved in this matter, taken any legal action against MAFIAAfire.com or the seized domains, including DMCA requests?
5. What protections are in place for MAFIAAfire.com or the seized domain owners if eventually a court decides they were not unlawful?
6. Can you please provide copies of any briefs that accompanied the affidavit considered by the court that issued the relevant seizure orders?
7. Can you please provide a copy of the relevant seizure order upon which your request to Mozilla to take down MAFIAAfire.com is based?
8. Please identify exactly what the infringements by the owners of the domains consisted of, with reference to the substantive standards of Section 106 and to any case law establishing that the actions of the seized domain owners constituted civil or criminal copyright infringement.
9. Did any copyright owners furnish affidavits in connection with the domain seizures? Had any copyright owners served DMCA takedown notices on the seized domains or MAFIAAfire.com? (if so please provide us with a copy)
10. Has the Government furnished the domain owners with formal notice of the seizures, triggering the time period for a response by the owners? If so, when, and have there been any responses yet by owners?
11. Has the Government communicated its concerns directly with MAFIAAfire.com? If so, what response, if any, did MAFIAAfire.com make?
![Hide This Hide this](https://ii.techdirt.com/s/t/i/topclose.png)
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: dhs, domain seizures, firefox, homeland security, ice, mafiaafire, mozilla
Companies: mozilla
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Excellent
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nice work, Mozilla!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
*points to browser
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Edit your hosts file; simpler and faster.
Oh but yay Mozilla. Even if it sucks. Nice to see them standing up.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
do this or off to the gulag with you!
Do they have any idea how quickly information goes around the intertubes? If they seize a domain, it takes about a day for the new domain to be posted to all of the news sites. This extension just made that time shorter.
So I guess the plan is to fight piracy 24 hours at a time?
And hey they managed to create more coverage of the plugin, should they take themselves down for contributing to the problem?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
It is not at all clear if Mozilla could be held legally liable for its extension, but it is clear that as a group located within the US it is generally not a good idea to get "cutesy" with the DHS and the DOJ.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Also, I'm surprised Mozilla hasn't been sued by the Godzilla company yet. Seems more like Godzilla than Fingerzilla at least phonetically.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
Please save your thinly veiled threats for whatever third world dictatorship which you can more properly call home.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
https://donate.mozilla.org/page/contribute/openwebfund
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
I find this to be an interesting statement on two levels.
1. I don't see how requesting that a government agency back up its demands with a legal basis is, in any way, shape or form getting "cutesy" with the government.
2. I find the general sentiment you express here horrifying. You actually think that if the government comes to you and makes a request outside of the law, you should just obey? That seems to run entirely counter to the American way of standing up for what you believe in and not being bullied by the government.
I really find it sad when people who claim to be patriotic Americans really are just willing pawns of authoritarianism.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
Asking relevant questions about important issues that effect everyone is not being "cutesy" at all.
It's called being a good American.
"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."
� Benjamin Franklin
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DHS' new motto
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
I want it seen that not every user of the internet in the US agrees with the actions ICE has taken.
Call it a civil disobedience.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Incoming: A vague and nebulous statement which repeats several debunked/irrelevant theories (e.g. "piracy is killing corn farmers") and proves absolutely nothing. Afterward, the DHS will seize mozilla.org.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DHS IS FULL OF IT! (And I don't mean Information Technology)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Web browsers = piracy
Web browsers are responsible for 100% of piracy on the world wide web.
They must be banned or we'll simply have no reason to innovate anymore.
Signed,
Big Br...uh..Media
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: cutesy with the DHS
Mike, et al.,
I think what the AC is referring to here is the likelihood that DHS is seriously wondering if they could get away with "seizing" mozilla.org/com now that Mozilla has publicly pushed back against DHS. Asking questions privately, even though they didn't get a response, allows DHS to forget about it, and brush it under the rug. Making it public puts egg on DHS's collective face, and makes Mozilla a bigger target.
Is it right? NO
Does it change the threat to Mozilla? YES
Granted, making it public MIGHT make it harder for DHS to retaliate against Mozilla. And then again, it might not. So far DHS hasn't appeared to care about public opinion (or legal opinions for that matter) with this little game they are playing. Their egos might just feel they have to power to take down a major internet software company for allowing the circumvention of their highly questionable, yet still in their eyes "legal" seizures.
All in all, I wouldn't be surprised if mafiaafire.com is seized in the next round. It would make DHS look petty, and it appears (from text on the MAFIAAFire site) that not only is MAFIAAFire taunting DHS into doing it, but it looks like they have a backup site ready to go as well. So that seizure would be moot. Nevertheless, DHS still might do it because again, everything they've done so far they believe to be legal.
Part of me really wants to see DHS "seize" mozilla.org/com. That would be a big enough site, with a big enough budget to get this thing finished once and for all.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
Here the memo should have been no more than one or two very simple, non-argumentative questions.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
I just added it to my browser
The DHS is abusing its power in precisely the way it was intended to be abused when it was created, IMHO. It's another step towards corporate owned law enforcement.
I rarely subscribe to any sort of conspiracy theory but is there *anything* the DHS has done to actually make the country safer? I'm not the only one asking that question either:
http://www.customsandinternationaltradelaw.com/2011/02/articles/department-of-homeland-securit-1/d oes-the-us-department-of-homeland-security-make-us-safer/
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 011/01/02/unconventional_wisdom?page=0,2
[ link to this | view in thread ]
I've said it before...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DHS
This too shall pass, folks. And besides, it's true: the internet interprets censorship as damage and simply routes around it.
"They got the guns but we got the numbers." Jim Morrison
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
Congress solved that pretty quickly by taking away their teeth.
Here, we have Mozilla asking a few common sense questions based on a few facts:
1) No court order was given with this demand
2) An inquiry into what harm the plug in is doing to the consumers or the market
3) Is this about censorship, or is this about taking down an opponent of the already controversial seizure domains?
The list could be three questions or it could be dozens, but if DHS doesn't want to answer the questions listed, THAT should be what we're focusing on. Mozilla is correct in asking about the validity of this takedown.
Arguing that the list should be only a few questions less is mere semantics.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Mozilla Funding
Mozilla is Free Software, not Freeware, and they make a tidy income from Firefox, enough to pay for a few smart, motivated lawyers who understand what Freedom is about and what it takes to stay Free.
Yes, there really are such people.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
And why is that? Cause the tiny brains over at the DHS cannot process anything over 3 and up? Figures. That's probably why they never managed to answer those serious questions asked.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
You and I both know that a legal nastygram such as what DHS/ICE gave Mozilla equates to a demand (you even allude to it in your last line of not getting cutesy) whereas due to this a request from Mozilla towards DHS/ICE is therefore a demand to provide proof of why Mozilla should kowtow to the demands of a Govt organisation when there is No legal requirememt to.
Mozilla can in no way shape or form be held liable for an extension (especially when it is not even their extension but written by a third party) to state otherwise means that providers of Operating Systems (Redhat, Microsoft, etc) could be held liable because people write unwelcome programs that hook into the operating system (You know like programming in C or Assembler)
As for the question on the letter Mozilla wrote to DHS I thought they were quite relevant, and were a polite way of asking for a declaratory opinion before having to go to court.
If it was myself, I would not of bothered with 11 points, just one would of been needed. I would of pointed them to the reply in Arkell v. Pressdram
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: cutesy with the DHS
For example:
Mozilla would fight both in the courts, media, and halls of public opinion. Oh and this would seriously piss off a lot of very intelligent people worldwide
More than likely Mozilla would find another place of residence away from the USA with an interesting effect of a lot of other companies following suit and leaving the unstable legal waters of the USA
They could, and this would be highly interesting, un-license the usage of Mozilla products from any and all US Government usage. Oh and for all those who think it could not be unlicensed, you might want to actually read the copyleft/GPL license of Mozilla products.
The ripple effects of doing anything to Mozilla would be amazing, and yes like you I to would love to see the USG try.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mozilla's reply
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Don't say that sort of thing in this post 9/11 hysteria or DHS will detain you
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: cutesy with the DHS
Why not?? Superman's leaving.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Win!
1/ I hate Microsoft (destroy every company making better software instead of competing).
2/ I hate Apple (to restrictive).
3/I'm doing my bit to stop Google taking over the world.
4/ Gotta love open source.
I think I'll go make a donation, they deserve it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
But ... ... But ... ... But they're terrorists!
Yay Department of Home Land Security!
Now I'm confused, .....what are we secure from exactly?
Oh that's right the terrorists!
Yay go on git that Osama babe.
Oh wait, thats not in your charter of operations is it?
Sounds like a FOX hunt then?
Better git those legal DOGS to go BARKING accusations then.
Proof?
Nah, we don't need that silly, just make a lot of noise like a stun grenade WHAM BAM Thank you MAME.
Now I feel totally SCREWED!
Its a sad day when the Department of Homeland Security makes the terrorists look GOOD HUH?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Unlisted
Unlawful domain seizures. Thuggish takedown demands. DHS has too much power and too little oversight.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
I'm so proud of Mozilla - this is the response I was hoping for, but not really expecting. The questions they posited were acute, pertinent, and showed a very in-depth understanding of the on-going situation.
I agree with what some others have said - Mozilla is already my default browser, but it's definitely time to hit the 'donate' button.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: DHS' new motto
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
What does the IRS have to do with DHS trying to get Mozilla to take down perfectly legal content?
Here the memo should have been no more than one or two very simple, non-argumentative questions
I'm glad that you know what Mozilla should or should not have done.
However, I'm afraid in my estimation, you are wrong again. Mozilla asked serious questions of a government agency trying to exert greater than justified power. It "should" do exactly what you it did. Just because you like to kowtow to the government, does not mean that everyone else "should."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Unlisted
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Unlisted
Though it can be seen it has been submitted awaiting review by using this mozilla link [ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mafiaafire-redirector/ ]
Mozilla has not caved in, in fact most likely this add-on will be reviewed post haste now and will most likely be in the top add-ons list very soon.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: DHS IS FULL OF IT! (And I don't mean Information Technology)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mozilla does not allow searching for this plugin
try to search for: 'Mafiaa' 'MafiaaFire Redirector' etc.
no results!
Here is the destination page:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mafiaafire-redirector/
Looks like gov pressure is already working.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Poor Mozilla...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Mozilla does not allow searching for this plugin
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Mozilla does not allow searching for this plugin
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
I am glad they didn't just Roll Over, but I REALLY HOPE they thought through the consequences of their actions.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
"~nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law~"
Without due process we might as well live in a dictatorship or totalitarian country.
Asking for confirmation that what they are doing is legal and that they have followed due process is not getting "cutesy".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
So you think we now live in a country where retaliation for asking justifiable questions of a Government Agency is going happen?
If we are at that state then I think more and more of us should be asking those questions. Not hoping.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: cutesy with the DHS
Yes, but it's collective egg.
You see, the FBI tried this, to no avail.
The White House threatened over their logo.
So seeing the government pushed back means there's plenty more egg to go around.
Now I'm hungry for an omelette...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Awsome!!!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
State of the Union
The TSA gropes kids for fun and profit.
The DHS somehow thinks that taking down domains is protecting the "Homeland".
I.C.E refuses to actually stop illegal immigration, but thinks that it should be "Enforcing" it's restrictions on people that are born or live here legally.
The DOJ is spending all of it's resources on piracy, but does nothing about the problems caused by the financial crisis.
And during all of this the President of this great country ignoring all of the turmoil all over the world thinks it a great idea to film an episode of Oprah.
The State of the Union is STRONG!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thanx DHS,
[ link to this | view in thread ]
i hope
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
> not a good idea to get "cutesy" with the DHS and the DOJ.
The whole point of this country and the Bill of Rights is that the citizens are protected from reprisal by the government for being cutesy.
Indeed, the freedom to criticize the government and stand up to its abuses is one of the fundamental rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
Your comment indicates how far we've fallen from those principles if you accept as a matter of course that citizens should just shut up and take it or else.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DHS...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: cutesy with the DHS
Seriously though, I remember reading that .org is managed outside of the US and is out of reach. Seal team mission?
I disagree about a strong backlash though. The numbers of people who care/would do anything other than bitch, just aren't there. More likely they'll just move, along with lots of other, like you said.
I love Mozilla!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
why...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Poor Mozilla...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Rich
Shucks. I forgot, England is America's largest aircraft carrier.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: cutesy with the DHS
> face, and makes Mozilla a bigger target.
The idea that any citizen or business can so routinely be "targeted" by the government merely for standing up for themselves and exercising their legal rights is a sad indication of how fall we've fallen short of the country the Founders envisioned.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: I just added it to my browser
> make the country safer?
Depends on what you mean by "safer".
The Coast Guard is part of DHS. They do a damn good job of both indicting drug and gun runners and search-and-rescue ops.
The Secret Service is part of DHS. They do a damn good job protecting high-level government officials.
On the other hand, DHS has done nothing to secure our borders (and actively undermines the efforts of anyone else who tries) and they oversee the ridiculous TSA and their grope-a-terrorist program. And their ludicrous fixation on copyright violation as a threat to national security is laughable.
So basically the question is too broad for just a simple yes/no answer. If DHS was abolished, as many here have called for, and the Secret Service disappeared, does anyone really believe the country would be better off for it, with our president left completely unprotected? No. Can they do a better job in other areas in setting the proper priorities and securing the country? Absolutely.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: I just added it to my browser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Homeland_Security
"created in response to the September 11 attacks, and with the primary responsibilities of protecting the territory of the U.S. from terrorist attacks and responding to natural disasters."
The Secret Service and Coast Guard were around a lot longer than DHS.
I still fail to understand how seizing domains protect us from terrorist attacks...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: I just added it to my browser
> the primary responsibilities of protecting the territory of the
> U.S. from terrorist attacks and responding to natural disasters."
Yes, and part of creating DHS was to consolidate already-existing agencies under one department.
> The Secret Service and Coast Guard were around a lot longer than DHS.
Sure. Doesn't change the fact that they make up a significant percentage of DHS.
The point is, DHS does some things very well and other things so poorly you wonder if a team of clowns wouldn't be better able to pull it off.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mozilla I love you
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: "...your (sic) getting your panties in a bunch..."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Fight back, America!
I really hope Mozilla wins this battle. Otherwise, I wonder what this country will become... a fascist authoritarian dictatorship or will be become just like (insert your favorite communist or former communist government), highly industrious as a nation but treats their people terribly and tries to cover it up as if they did nothing wrong or that nothing happened? If history has taught me anything, it's that there will be a revolution. I hope it comes very soon. I also hope those DHS jackasses defecate their pants when they see how many people they've disenfranchised and infuriated if they keep acting like imbeciles.
I will be donating! Keep up the good fight, Mozilla!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
Is that true? Let's suppose first that ICE actually exercised due process in obtaining the seizures through court order etc. If the code was a core part of Firefox, could ICE then get a court order to force Mozilla to remove a feature that helped in circumventing the domain seizure? Suppose it was an Apple approved app on an Ipad. That's not much different than being a core feature of an Ipad. In Mozilla's case they offer the add-on on their website as an officially approved one. Is this much different than the Ipad scenario? We all know that anyone can write and install an add-on for Firefox without Mozilla's approval. The issue here is that Mozilla has put their seal of approval upon the Mafiaafire add-on. ICE is asking them to take that back and I assume they realize that won't make Mafiaafire go away.
BTW: Mozilla did not approve the Firesheep add-on but that was not the result of government pressure.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
"...But a person within Mozilla, who said he could not be quoted because of confidentiality agreements, said that the organization had already worked out a deal with Toho that allows it to keep using the name. Besides, he said, the Mozilla mascot is not Godzilla -- just your garden-variety Tyrannosaurus rex."
from:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/19/business/compressed-data-and-now-the-sequel-every-zi lla-meets-the-lawyers.html
http://www.dnforum.com/f26/zilla-lawsuit-your-opinions-thread-147938 .html
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/11/godzilla-terror/
The word Mozilla came about as the internal name for the Netscape browser. Mozilla = Mosaic + killer. Mosaic being one of the first graphical browsers and developed at NCSA, Univ. of Illinois in 1992.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
2. When sending a response to a government agency it is generally not a wise move, even if one is absolutely entitled to do so, to wax poetic with a series of "questions" that serve no useful purpose other than, perhaps, "feeling good" that you did. Generally, the less said the better. Question #3 may very well have been the only one it needed to ask. The writer already knew the answers to most of the others. Thus, they added nothing of relevance and could reasonably be viewed as merely being argumentative.
3. While Mozilla may stand on firm legal ground, at this early stage its legal position cannot be determined with certainty. By being "cutesy" it may embolden the recipient to move forward and test Mozilla's legal position in court. The goal should be to end the matter here and now, and not to increase in the slightest the possibility that a decision may move to a later date using unknown means.
4. The above is not being unpatriotic, and it is plainly silly to suggest otherwise. It is not bending to the will of the government. It is merely a way to solve a potential problem in a manner that minimizes the possiblity that it later becomes a real problem. Just because one has a "right" to do something does not necessarily mean that it is the "right" or "smart" thing to do under the circumstances.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Mozilla does not allow searching for this plugin
[ link to this | view in thread ]
#1 terror organization is the USA government
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Canadian DMCA
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Firstly, let me say that I am not American, so really couldn't care less if your views are patriotic or not! This, for me, takes out one factor of the argument - nationality. Rather, think globally. This is an issue that concerns everyone, not just America, even though the source individuals/corporations are in the USA.
Secondly, you are arguing from a position of problem resolution. If you are viewing it as a problem that needs to be resolved as quickly, quietly and efficiently as possible, then you are correct. Mozilla's actions were extremely questionable if this was the goal.
Problem resolution, however, was NOT Mozilla's goal in this case. Many, Mozilla and MAFIAAfire included, consider what the DHS has been doing as censorship. The sole reason for making this app, as stated by the creator of the MADIAAfire app, was to protest this act of censorship. Mozilla, as a company with a firm belief in open source software, and the ideals on which it is built, is echoing and supporting that protest, as well as making one of it's own.
Your arguments are 100% correct if Mozilla's response was aimed at resolving it's issue with the DHS demand. It is not. It is a public protest, straight up. It isn't meant to resolve, it is meant to question, probe, and well.. protest the DHS's actions. An anti-war rally is not meant to resolve a smaller issue, but to protest a larger one. This is Mozilla's anti-war cry.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: MAFIAAfire slows browser
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
And if rule of law prevails in the US, why are so many Americans being harassed/raped/beaten half to death by your figures of authority without any of those figures of authority ever being brought to justice?
Rule of law? My ass!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
reddit.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Response to: fogbugzd on May 5th, 2011 @ 3:03pm
[ link to this | view in thread ]
government abuse of power by obummer etal
IMPEACH - CONVICT - EXECUTE FOR TREASON that imposter osama obama barry soetero hussein obummer or whoever he really is
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: I just added it to my browser
The Coast Guard and the Secret Service, although part of DHS, would not in any way be dissolved if DHS was torn down.
They would simply fall back to where they came from, or not. They could just exist.
DHS should have never been implemented anyway.
My 2 cents.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Glad to see this
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Glad to see this
[ link to this | view in thread ]
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mafiaafire-redirector/
Thank you, Mozilla.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Agreed... Mozilla does good... now, help them out
Now, help the Mozilla Foundation out by making a tax deductible contribution:
https://donate.mozilla.org/page/contribute/openwebfund
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: "...your (sic) getting your panties in a bunch..."
Please die in a fire. Thank you.
Sincerely,
The rest of the world
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: #1 terror organization is the USA government
(Preface: I do not believe in Gitmo, what its being used for, or the things that happen there)
Who in Gitmo has had legitimate proof of being innocent? Where is the proof?
On the Bin Laden deal, whether you believe he had anything to do with 9/11 is besides the point. We know what crimes he commited from The beginning of the Russian/Afgan war through to the 1996 bombing of the parking Gargage of the WTC.
How do we know? We *financed* his jihad all troughtout that war because, as far as the US was concerned, it was okay when he was doing that shit to the russians.
Now that they are doing it to us, we are all outraged!!
What assassinations? Citations please. There has been a Presidential Finding since Carter that forbids US forces to assinate anyone. Killed while attempting to flee capture is covered under the Internation rules of Land Warfare and is not assassination.
As for the Bribery and manipulations of other governments, can you honestly say that you think the US is the only one doing these things? Its called diplomacy and governments for the last 2,000+ years have been doing it.
I think it is you that needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Yes things are hideously wrong in this country, but needless, incorrect hyperbole is not requuired, and only tends to confuse the legitimate issues.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: government abuse of power by obummer etal
Bush and his policies in his 8 year reign of destruction has destroyed more lives, financial futures, and killed more people *in this country* than anything Obama has done anywhere in the world!
He initiated 2 wars of aggression that were almost certainally illegal, lied about them and why. Changed the interstate banking laws to enrich his rich friends and supporters which spiralled the US into a Depression... THEN LIED THAT IT WAS EVEN A DPRESSION! His orders have resulted in an estimated 100,000 civilian deaths, and something like 5,000 us service men dead, with tens of thousands wounded.
Whats Obama done? Dicked us around with Online censorship in the name of corporate greed, and lied to us about transparency in the Government.... Seems just a bit different when you really look at the face of it.
Now I am not saying Obama has done thing wrong, far from it, but if what he has merits death, then what Bsh has done merits his death 1000 fold, and maybe even that of his family for the next 10 generations.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: #1 terror organization is the USA government
Oh, so all we have to do is try to capture someone while leaving them a potential escape route, and then shoot them when they run. Convenient!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: #1 terror organization is the USA government
These are the rules that many, MANY civilized countries agreed on in trying to make war less horrible for all parties involved by laying down the rule of law on who is, or is not a fair target and how and with what they may be attacked.
It covers such things as care and supply of POW's, while out-lawing such things as gas warfare, or the use of .50 cal weapons on human targets. It mandates acceptable use-of-force, tactics, and actions agaisnt enemy combatants, commanders, and spies/sabatuers. Especially those not dressed in national uniform. (This is where you get your streetside executions of VC prisioners who conducted illegal warfare while dressed as civilians)
As a commander in the field, soldiers had every right to return fire agaisnt those in the compound, and whether Bin Laden was carrying a weapon or not, as the self proclaimed commander of those forces, he was fair game.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: #1 terror organization is the USA government
Actually that's a myth, the Geneva Conventions (nor other treaties as far as I know) don't prohibit the use of .50 caliber rounds against personnel. This seems like a pretty detailed exploration of the subject but I will leave you to google around about it if you're interested.
http://home.avvanta.com/~minsq/NCArchive/00000210.htm
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I just added it to my browser
> would not in any way be dissolved if DHS was torn down.
> They would simply fall back to where they came from, or not. They
> could just exist.
The same could just as accurately be said for TSA and ICE and all the other DHS components that are causing the problems.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Maffiafire
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: I've said it before...
What a perfect reason to defund the Secret Service.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: State of the Union
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: 51st State
Canada�s Corporate registered number. 0000230098 CANADA DC SIC: 8880 American Depositary Receipt. Business Address Canadian Embassy 1746 Massachusetts Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20036��
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: I've said it before...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Excellent
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
global
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That's not a reason man
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mozilla vs US ICE
Cheers;
the0wl
[ link to this | view in thread ]
MafiaaFire Take-Down?
the0wl
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]