Peanuts Rights Holder Shuts Down Peanutweeter, Pisses Off Fans For No Reason At All
from the how-not-to-do-things dept
You may recall, a few years back, all the attention received by a site called Garfield Minus Garfield, in which a guy, Dan Walsh, took Garfield comic strips and "removed" Garfield, creating existentially weird comic strips in their place. We wrote about it three years ago, mainly to point out how nice it was that Garfield creator Jim Davis didn't freak out about it, and noted that he enjoyed it. In fact, Davis and his publisher, Ballantine Books, were so pleased with the attention it got, that they all worked together to put out an official Garfield Minus Garfield book. As we noted, we hoped that others who saw people doing creative things with their works would react similarly.Apparently the folks who own the rights to the famed Peanuts comic strip empire see things quite differently. Over the past few weeks, the site Peanutweeter has received a bunch of attention with various websites writing about it and showing off some of the strips. The way Peanutweeter worked is that the guy behind it, Jason Agnello, would pair up a frame from a Peanuts cartoon with a semi-random tweet he would find that would match with the scene (and put the Tweeter credit below). Here are a few examples:
But even beyond the legal aspect here, let's discuss the basic common sense approach here. Now, obviously, Peanuts is a huge licensing business these days, but so is Garfield. In the case of Garfield, Davis and others quickly (and correctly) realized that such derivative works didn't harm or tarnish the brand in any way. Quite the contrary, it brought renewed interest in the strip, especially from an audience that might not normally care. On top of that, the friendly and encouraging approach resulted in a book from which they could all profit.
On the flipside, you have Iconix/Peanuts, who have just pissed off thousands of people online who followed Peanutweeter on Twitter and Tumblr -- and all for what? This was getting attention and getting people (who normally wouldn't) to think about Peanuts again. That's an opportunity. But it takes a special kind of lawyer to look at a great opportunity, and think that demands a legal threat letter.
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Filed Under: copyright, culture, peanuts, twitter
Companies: iconix brand group, peanuts worldwide
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Phew
It's good that they shut this down before it renewed any interest in the originals.
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I think he is trying to get some bonus fame by playing off the peanuts name. It is still to consider protecting such a blatant rip off. There isn't even any parody factor here.
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/s
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..which was:
What is the point to Iconix sending the take down? All it does is piss off people when Iconix could be using it to their advantage.
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I think it's interesting how you ignored the whole Jim Davis example and I'm interested in hearing why. We have been shown two ways of reacting to what is admittedly an appropriation of one's work. One way is to embrace the use and MAKE MOTHERFUCKING MONEY OFF OF IT. The other is to actually LOSE SAID MOTHERFUCKING MONEY and as a bonus PAY A MOTHERFUCKING LAWYER to craft a DMCA takedown letter that does not generate ANY MOTHERFUCKING INCOME.
Honestly....how can you possibly advocated the latter?
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Because he's paid to?
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They don't HAFTA make money whoring out their art as some kind of cheap Chris Rock profano-humor--that's only funny because bitchmotherfuckersaidso--if they don't want to.
Just sayin'.
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Perhaps they already MADE ENOUGH MOTHERFUCKING MONEY and don't feel the need for this less than desirable use of their content.
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Maybe the Iconix Brand Group can learn by watching this video parody that by just waving their arms around wildly in the correct way, their purchased "Peanuts" product value would increase exponentially beyond their wildest dreams. I'd suggest they buy some Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Men to help them out.
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They are less desirable.
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There's not enough face to palm ratio for this...
*Facepalm*
*Looks up at AC*
*Facepalms*
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I kind-of agree with you.
Obviously, Peanuts has a wholesome "family" quality: no cursing, very little controversy, essentially no "adult" matters. I can see why the owners might not like to see their characters cussing up a storm and discussing very adult matters... YES, yes, even if they could possibly make a buck off of it, I can still see them having a problem with it.
Having said that, the few strips I read were great, I would definitely like to read more. But again, I can understand why the owners would take umbrage at it.
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You mean like Glee, which, I note, is still available from the Fox On Demand service and does almost nothign but rip-off artists, and not pay full royalties.
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There is no analogy to that situation here.
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It's been happening for centuries. Since the Renaissance, really.
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Probably more like forever.
I have seen quite a few cave drawings of stick figure hunters that look exactly like other cave drawings of stick figure hunters.
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Go back to your "art" thing, we're talking about the real thing here, money. Where do you see any realtion with art?
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I don't either.
The rights owner did nothing wrong. Nothing. The owner is technically and legally right. In fact, I agree with your entire post.
You miss the issue that the TD article is about.
Was this the smartest thing the rights owner could have done?
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The smartest thing they can do is to zealously protect their images, their content, their trademarks, and their characters so that they don't lose out in the long run. That's what they are doing.
"smart" depends on where you sit. Don't slam others for not agreeing with your version.
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That's your opinion, and it's one that many disagree with, including Jim Davis.
Let's face it, Peanuts is now quite old and doesn't have the following or popularity it used to. Anything that draws more attention to it is likely to have a positive effect for the rightsholders, not a negative one.
If you disagree, and I'm sure you do, can you explain how this could be bad for them? Exactly how will they "lose out in the long run"?
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By a bunch of shilltards obviously.
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It should say: "Using the DMCA to take down protected 1st Amendment parody free speech of comic strips, especially ones that are well known, is just lazy and insulting."
There isn't even any parody factor here.
I weep for you and anyone else who cannot see the parody in this.
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This so misses the point of art and culture. One of the big reasons these comics are so funny is because it uses such well known and iconic characters in pop culture. If he had invented his own characters it wouldn't nearly be as funny. Yes, it might be funny, but not nearly as this. Seriously, could you have pictured any of these characters saying any of these things?
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Value
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You are essentially saying he can't make social commentary though. If he used 'original' characters, it wouldn't be the same message.
You must be a Scientol... oh, wait, I can't comment about that... you must be a member of a quasi-fictitious relig... wait... crossing a line...
Crap, I guess I have nothing to say... (at least, not legally...)
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using the old "if it's not original it's a ripoff" argument, which is the LEAST original thing anyone could ever say is just lazy insulting
and hypocritical, too
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It's not the lawyer's fault
> But it takes a special kind of lawyer
> to look at a great opportunity, and think
> that demands a legal threat letter.
Not that I think much good comes from lawyers, but the lawyer is only doing what he is paid to do.
The one who is truly the special kind of person, is the rights owner. Not seeing an opportunity. But then, that's what rights owners do.
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Re: It's not the lawyer's fault
I disagree. Legal counsel is paid to counsel on legal matters, and an IP attorney worth his or her salt should be intimately familiar with fair use principles and the Streisand Effect.
That no overtures of negotiation have been made before sending a takedown letter suggests that this attorney is merely a glorified copyroom clerk with a law degree.
When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail.
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They made their name by ripping off other people's creativity. They have few movies that are 100% original. I would even go further and say that all their work is inspired or ripped off of someone else's creativity.
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Oh wait!
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Until it enters the public domain then it is everyone's property. That's a funny way for property to behave.
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" The owners of the copyright do not like what is being done with their property."
The tweets sure as hell ain't "their" property. And this type of thing goes on in other media countless times. What the copyright owner should do, is sit back and see what exactly is going on. Since the owner isn't the creator (Charles M. Schulz RIP), he should have even LESS say in what's going on.
" Considering that the infringer is simply replacing the original caption with his own curse word-riddled captions, it makes sense to me that the owner may not appreciate that. "
It's called comedy. It's a parody. It's also fair use and derivative. You should look into that some time.
" It's "stupid" to say that they are "stupid" for not seeing it otherwise."
How about "it's an opinion based on observation?" Also, it is rather stupid to look at what was going on (ie the added interest in Peanuts books) and say "we don't want to sell more books, this must be stopped at once!"
"If the infringer is such a clever person, surely he can create something wholly original. "
He sure did what was fun for him. Honestly, why is it that so many people make the originality argument, not understanding anything to do with how art is formed, I have no idea...
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I just can't take this seriously
Cave Johnson here. The thing is, we just love to have comments that we can't make heads nor hair of. It matches the decor. But the thing is, we love new test subjects, especially for our super conductor. I'll be honest, we're throwing science at the wall here and see what sticks. Best case, you might get some super powers. Worst case, you might get some tumors, which we'll cut out.
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Re: I just can't take this seriously
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You might want to look up the definition of parody sometime:
–noun
1. a humorous or satirical imitation of a serious piece of literature or writing
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Which is why this is almost certainly parody. It's poking fun at Peanuts.
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Would you like to elaborate on that? Since fair use can only be determined conclusively in court, any statements about it are a matter of opinion. What would be your analysis of the four factors?
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But, to answer it anyway - they might not like their brand messed around with and they have the right to complain and shut the site down. However, the observation being made is not about their right or desire to do that, but about how doing so might actually lose them exposure, and therefore money.
Funny how the ACs around here never seem to be able to identify what's actually being said.
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> be able to identify what's actually being said.
I wonder if it really, truly, actually just goes right over their head.
They don't stop and think about what is being said. They've already got their preconceptions of what is being said.
It would explain the missing the point and failing to address substantive arguments and points raised.
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> original is so foreign to Masnick
Yeah, darn bloggers. They never write. Never have an original thought. Never are entertaining or informative. The blog attracts no traffic or interested followers . . .
Oh, wait.
You darn kids! Get off my lawn!
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Says the AC who copies other AC's lame ass argument that didn't hold any water the first time. Very convincing.
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The Real Reason
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Peanuts
*Earlier, Peanuts was sometimes actually funny.
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Re: Peanuts
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dLSVgS5AxBI/SR_axZhl0nI/AAAAAAAASmw/7hWr4FafeLE/s1600-h/FredBas set.jpg
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Re: Peanuts
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Who took it down
What is up there right now is actually the peanutweeter.com domain pointed to a different Tumblr acct
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Re: Who took it down
Tumblr took the site down following a DMCA takedown notice from Iconix. Given the DMCA, Tumblr had little choice but to do the takedown. It's totally wrong to blame Tumblr.
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Speaking of Peanuts
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My idea
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its not fair use
I don't see this as fair use in any way.
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Hilarious...finally!
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Special?
We have a term for these lawyers: typical.
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All the Peanuts characters suck
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All the Peanuts characters suck
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You may have heard recently of somebody else with that name being in a comic strip. Well, my real name IS Charlie Brown and I for one think they're not promoting Peanuts well. Why? Because nobody under the age of twenty knows who the f**k Charlie Brown or Snoopy or Linus (etc) are!
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Derivative works without permission run every risk of being taken down, if only to assert to the whole wide world that no one can take someone's intellectual property for granted. We saw a similar case with Scrabulous and Hasbro last year.
Mike says: "Now, obviously, Peanuts is a huge licensing business these days,"
Isn't that telling? The rights owner is already making tons of money, there is considerable interest in the strip and the brand hasn't been diluted, until this happened. And you expect the rights holder to actually embrace an unlicensed derivative work which tarnishes the brand ? Come on, basic common sense dictates that you don't take this lying down.
"realized that such derivative works didn't harm or tarnish the brand in any way."
Not in this case. Anyway, doesn't the rights holder have the right to decide on that?
" Quite the contrary, it brought renewed interest in the strip, especially from an audience that might not normally care."
Not the same here. There is plenty of existing interest, and such derivative works would only generate the wrong kind of interest.
" -- and all for what?"
To tell the world that you can't just grab a popular comic strip and do what you want with it. Precedent, Mike!
"That's an opportunity."
Where you see opportunity, they see threat. That's the difference between running a blog and owning the rights to creative work that's still bringing in a whole lot of money without much effort.
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Who knows if Peanuts would of had such issue if the things being quoted were a little tamer.
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I didn't see any substantive points. Could you identify them
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The major one is that, although the rightsholders have the ability to do what they did, it may not make good business sense to do so. Certainly they could have contacted the artist directly and voice any concerns they had, and perhaps worked out a deal. Last I checked, a phone call or email was much cheaper than a lawyer.
The underlying point I usually take away from these types of stories is that, regardless of whether you feel it's parody or derivative, there is now less art in the world directly because of copyrights. Directly because of copyrights. It needed to be said twice.
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A live lawyer.
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Killing the messenger
CLIENTS decide what to do, and lawyers implement that decision. I have a mental picture of a lawyer (and I am in that exact position at this time, with a client) saying "I don't think you should do that" and the client saying "Do it", though the only part I am sure is accurate is the public, and bloggers like you, saying "What was that lawyer (???) thinking of?".
This seems to be crystal clear to you in blogging, why is it so hard to understand in other professions?
Gee, I hope SETI succeeds; there must be some intelligence in this universe SOMEWHERE; though clearly not here.
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Re: Killing the messenger
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Sorry Mike, but it does not follow. The Garfield folks can do whatever they want with Garfield -- that does not bind the Peanuts folks or any other rightsholder. Why in the world would you think otherwise?
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Who taught this person to write?
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Re: Who taught this person to write?
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Lawyers get paid for this.
Jim Davis' lawyer is probably his best friend, or something.
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Good job blurring out the name there...
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Lawyers and punishment
Something like confiscating all their property and the massed property of any and all interest in the firm who send illegal DMCA takedown notices like this one, together with huge fines to the corporations they represent. This ofcause based on complaints from anyone, not just the grieved party.
I have always thought it was strange that lawyers are not accountable for their missteps while others are. The worst that can happen seems to be a slap on the wrist from a review board that are usually made up of their golf buddies and others from the scotch drinking club...
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Re: Lawyers and punishment
Exactly, who do you think makes and enforces the rules lawyers operate under? Lawyers.
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Charles Schultz is dead
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Rights Usage
Whenever spoiled, uninformed people lament the inability to appropriate (or misappropriate) something they did not create in order to "put their stamp on it", it's the same lame argument as those who stole music via Napster.
"Fair Use" has been unfairly used. Most people do not get the actual principle behind it.
Simply put, the copyright on creative works ensures a creator or their assigns the right to earn a living through their creative contribution(s).
When a lawyer [who is simply the legal representative of a rights owner] advises an infringer that they are in violation of the copyright a requests a cease and desist, they are taking into consideration all factors rather than simply proceeding with punitive legal action, and offering the violator a peaceful - and cost free - method of resolution.
The next time those of you who are gainfully employed receive your pay... ask yourself how you'd feel if your work was rewarded by someone else receiving that pay.
It's a simple principle in life...
Get what you pay for, pay for what you get and do the right thing... which includes not stealing (yes, STEALING) other people's creativity and work.
But then again, we have so many "honorable theives" on the Internet who see NOTHING wrong with glomming onto someone else's property [be it music, movies, comic strips, e-books, etc.] that there is no moral compass to guidfe ayone in this vast digital wasteland.
Case in point: Wait and see how many mindless apparitions will post their hete-filled rants because I've called them out on their lack of morality, decency and respect for the works of others.
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