Trolls: The Town Drunks Of The Internet
from the don't-quit-your-day-job dept
A study conducted by researchers at Northwestern University has reached a conclusion that many of us have entertained but dismissed as "not having a study conducted by researchers at Northwestern University behind it." Namely: trolling is like being sloppy drunk.
According to the science guys:
A new study has found that anonymity gives people the same feeling of abandon as power and alcohol intoxication.Ah, "loss of inhibition!" Is any combination of words sweeter to the ears (and livers) of trolls and drunkards alike? To be a troll is to be transported back to the heady days of frat house "Pre-Saturday Night Party" parties, where the cheap beer flowed like cheap beer and many bad decisions were made, most of them irrevocable.
"Although these pathways appear to be unrelated on the surface, they all lead to disinhibited states through a common psychological and neurological mechanism," said Jacob Hirsh of the university's Kellogg School of Management.
Dr Hirsh's colleague Professor Adam Galinsky said the loss of inhibition led to "significant behavioural consequences".
Much in the same way that alcohol can turn a fertile mind into a karaoke-singing, one-man party bursting with OPINIONS! (and some vomit), trolling can turn a regular, possibly decent person into an apopleptic nightmare full of half-formed rejoinders and circular logic, which often devolves into schoolyard name-calling flameouts (well, a schoolyard full of drunks...) or sudden exits from the conversation, presumably to go "sleep it off" on the bathroom floor.
There's more from the professor, which explains a lot of what we see here at Techdirt on a daily basis:
When people lose their inhibitions, they often behave in a manner more consistent with their true motives or character. At the same time, they also tend to be more easily influenced by their environment.
"In effect, disinhibition can both reveal and shape the person, as contradictory as that may sound," Professor Galinsky said.
The end result is that power, alcohol and anonymity can all inspire either strong pro- or anti-social sentiments in people.
The study may help explain why anonymous commentators on the web often appear to hold extreme views.Extreme views? Anti-social sentiments? Random hollering about someone's day job? It's all here. And for all the talk about "not feeding the trolls," it's hard to resist, especially when they're packing a buzz and getting the conversational munchies. Besides, who wouldn't want the chance to respond to a non sequitur composed of misspelled words and terrible analogies? We really want to take the high road, but the troll road is like a free ride straight downhill into STFU-ville. (Plus, the troll booths are closed! Bonus!)
Sooner or later, if the subject matter is contentious enough, the Techdirt comment threads are overrun with loudmouth drunks/trolls, not unlike the state of Wisconsin on any given night. (Or afternoon.) Ugly words are exchanged and brash statements made, most of them sorely in need of a citation. Hours later, it becomes a wasted blend of ALL CAPS shouting and any number of logical fallacies, before presumably heading quickly downhill to muted futile sobbing and calls to former sexual acquaintances.
And much like the virtual alcoholics they are, the trolling commenters will rarely let a day go by without a quick pull from the hip flask labelled "Submit," even if they've got nothing more than a quick "FUD" to spit out like an accidentally swallowed cigarette butt. Even the worst of hangovers won't stop the trolloholic from popping in quickly to call someone a liar or misread the byline on a post.
So, keep this valuable information in mind, Techdirt readers, the next time you find yourself trapped in an elliptical argument with an armchair Bukowski (sans the everything-that-made-Bukowski-appealing): they're just drunk on trolljuice, a potent blend of ignorance, anger and "chicken hawk syndrome."
How else would you explain this AC's one-man flamewar, in which he paints every disagreeing commenter with a broad paintbrush dipped in self-hatred (often mistaken for "mockery," but the acidic taste of bile gives it away), painting everything the same ugly shade of misanthropy?
Or this one?
Need one more?
Don't let the Anonymous Coward label fool you, though. Techdirt is filled with thoughtful and humorous AC's, while also serving as a host for a variety of proudly-named trolls. The real trolls are the commenters who show up for one reason: to insult as many Techdirt readers as possible while simultaneously trying to reframe the debate around their own twisted logic. You'd think it would be harder to type with such an outsized chip on your shoulder, but the internet never ceases to amaze.
Trolls, like the ones singled out above, are like the uncle you purposely uninvited to your wedding. The one who shows up anyway and spends the entire night alternately abusing the open bar and the wedding guests, bitterly decrying organized religion and the institution of marriage to anyone who will listen and others who are actively eyeing the exits. He swaggers around in a state of progressive drunkeness, alienating people left and right, before collapsing anti-climatically in the coat room after making a last-ditch pass at your newly-minted sister-in-law.
As the hangover ebbs, he remains secure in his belief that he "totally ripped those backwaters rubes a new one" when in all reality, all he did was pound home the fact that people hate him for a reason.
Trolls, just remember that your spluttering anger and misplaced indignity is often a source of amusement for us. Other times, it's just the same old shit, like when dad starts hitting the sauce and pounding out angry letters to the editor decrying the city council's recent decision to change local street signs to initial caps only. Sure, he seems to be truly perturbed by this now, but by the next day, it's just another piece of paper that ends up going straight from the Smith-Corona into the nearest wastebasket. The only difference is that, thanks to the miracle of THE INTERNET, the "angry letter" can be submitted instantly, 24/7, requiring nothing more of the brainstem-operating troll than the minute amount of hand-eye coordination needed to push a button.
So, bring on the worn-out cries of "Freetard!" and "Kool-Aid!", you trolling lushes. Just remember, our beverage of choice is booze-free.
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Not to shabby ...
Two things have obviously never passed the lips of our favorite trolls: the truth, or the tongue of a loving woman.
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Also a post you should read
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Maybe hang a poster of a seminude woman on a wall to help em feel like they back in their college days.
It isn't everyday trolls get mentioned on front page topic.
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Remember
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Re:
Awww, they are fun with their delusional drunk ideas.. They deserved the front page.
Trolls, we love you =)
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What about the professional trolls?
I'm under the impression that a lot of the "Anonymous Cowards" that troll TechDirt are actually not town-drunk-trolls, but rather professional agents provocateur. Do so few of that kind of troll exist that Northwestern can't categorize them? Or is it just that nobody wants to admit to taking 30 pieces of silver from Wagg-Ed to go act like a foul-mouth Linux fanboy on Paul Therott's Super Windows Site, and then go to Groklaw, and start a post with "I love Linux as much as the next guy, but..."
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Hmmm
"Hello my name is AC and I'm an anonymous troll..."
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Disastrous first sentence ?
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So Basically
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Techdirt causes persistent objectors because of its pretentions.
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http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/3/19/
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Re: Techdirt causes persistent objectors because of its pretentions.
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Trolls aren't really trolls, they are just people who don't agree with you, and often see things in ways you don't. In the same manner they you don't understand them, they don't understand your twisted logic either.
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Jerk
I'll thank you for not trying to confuse me with your analogies, Cush. I nearly decided I WASN'T going to go pick up a couple of bottles of Ruinator thanks to you.
Jerk....
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Re: Techdirt causes persistent objectors because of its pretentions.
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RAWR~!
I'll troll to that!!! *hic*
lol
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Re:
One can debate intelligently or troll with slang, insults, and bigotry. That's the difference.
Typically; 'trolls' get personal, rather than debate the concept or issue, they bash, flame and get personal.
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Re: Re:
By that logic, there are a lot of regular, named "trolls" here on Techdirt.
The "troll" label gets thrown around here, and other forums, very loosely to apply to anyone who disagrees with consensus, regardless of their tone.
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I, for one, LOVE dissenting opinions that are intelligent. It's actually what's so infuriating about Avg. Joe aka Fudbuster, because 90% of the time his comments are decent, informed, and provide a different opinion, but then he goes off the deepend (as do I, occasionally) and there's no relenting EVER from his stance.
That said, I'm pleased he's here overall.
And then there's Angry Dude (used to be, at least), or Daryl, who provide absolutely nothing beyond pure morose entertainment....
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I think where the real problems come in here is that a small minority of people have very extreme, very entrenched positions and they are unable to accept anything outside of them. Constant bashing of anything done by certain groups, and endless poking just encourages those most narrow minded people to lash out. It's really too bad, there is much to discuss. But my feeling is that the site owner(s) like it is this way, and they often reward the most narrow minded of the lot with the right to post new articles.
It's too bad, because much of what made this place interesting 4 or 5 years ago has been lost to this sort of mentality, which brings out the troll in many people.
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Re:
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You shutdown the discussion by calling the other party troll or trolling.
Some people will use the accusation of trolling to basically tell you to STFU and I am going to ignore you, while others may still have valid points.
I guess every sword swings both ways... :)
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Re: Disastrous first sentence ?
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Re: Remember
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Re: Re: Re:
Trolls are generally blatantly obvious.
They misinterpret things that are said so wildly one has to presume they are indeed suffering severe delusions or are deliberately out to annoy people.
Either way debate with them is pointless, it has nothing to do with disagreeing with them, their entire point is to disagree with anything that is said especially anything that is logically or factually based.
Your comparison to some aspects of discourse in the US is accurate although apparently not in the way you think as some aspects are pure trolling, most of Fox News for example, the "debate" about evolution vs "what we made up to disagree with evolution" etc.
9/11 truthers, birthers and so on and so on.
There is no point in arguing with any of these people as facts are irrelevant.
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Well put. The problem is, for a lot of trolls (I've been a member of enough internet communities over the years to actually meet some genuine trolls in person), more than you might think are actually suffering from the former rather than the latter.
With regards to the posts a few tiers up, there is clearly a difference between disagreement/dissent, and trolling. Disagreement states opposition, and if it doesn't back it up with a reasonable argument it's at least passive enough not to be taken as hostility. Trolls like out_of_the_blue and others (blue is the only one I can recall by name because, well, most of his/her posts really do seem to come completely out of the blue) are just obviously trolls. Anyone that claims otherwise is either just oblivious to the nature of social constructs, or is indeed suffering severe delusions or are deliberately out to annoy people
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The problem is, trolls seem to think that it's the fault of the person who brings out the troll in them, rather than practicing an ounce of self-awareness and finding the fault in themselves for either having that troll in them in the first place, or at the very least not having enough self control to keep a leash on it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
And how does that not apply to several named regulars here?
"Either way debate with them is pointless, it has nothing to do with disagreeing with them, their entire point is to disagree with anything that is said especially anything that is logically or factually based."
That may be true for some who get the "troll" label, but my point is that the "troll" label is often misapplied, and often not applied to those who might deserve it, depending on whether the labeler agrees with the ultimate viewpoint.
I have no idea what you're talking about in the rest of your post.
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Pot, meet Kettle
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Re: Re: Re:
In a large enough community, there are always going to be *some* people who rush to throw the troll (or, worse, "shill") label around. It is unfortunate when it happens too often, but I think it's a bit weak to suggest that everyone here feels that way.
For example, if you're who I think you are, you normally disagree with most of the stuff I write, and have even accused me of never admitting when I'm wrong, etc. And yet I certainly don't think of you as a troll. You tend to add valuable commentary, even if I disagree with your interpretations/readings of things.
There are, certainly some others on the site who clearly are here to act like jerks for the fun of it, rather than to have an informed discussion. I think that part of the issue is that because those people are often very vocal (loud drunks!) that unfortunately folks like yourself sometimes, by a few people, get painted with the same label.
I agree that it's unfortunate, but I don't see that it does much harm.
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Re: Pot, meet Kettle
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For example, if you go to freerepublic.com, I'm sure you'll find some people who think it's blatantly obvious that Obama is a socialism bent on destroying the American way of life, and anyone who thinks differently is a blind-as-a-bat idiot who is drinking the Dim-O-Crat koolaid.
If you go to dailykos.com, I'm sure you'll find some people who think its blatantly obvious that Republitards don't care about individuals other than themselves and their corporate paymasters and are only out to line their own pockets at the expense of the average citizen, and anyone who thinks differently is a brainwashed Fox-News-watching yokel.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
I agree. I certainly did not mean to suggest that.
I think the harm is that people use the "troll" label to close off acceptance of potentially valid viewpoints/statements before really considering them.
Also, I can't be sure if I am who you think I am, but your description of me sounds about right.
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:)
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Thanks for reminding us how valuable dissenting voices are when they come from intellectually honest people :)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
On that, I absolutely agree. It is thrown around way too frequently. But I also do think that there are some people who come to the site to purposely mess around and say stupid stuff to get a rise out of people.
Though, I actually do think this is one area where having a name (even pseudonym) can help people. If they can see a history of reasoned behavior, even if you disagree, I think they're less likely to go with the troll label.
There are certainly people like Hugh Mann or Suzanne Lainson who almost always disagrees with me, but I can't remember anyone ever calling either of them trolls.
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What little credibility this site had is gone.
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There's a big difference between voicing disagreement (going to dailykos and saying that Obama is of course not a socialist, and here's why I think so) and taking it to the point of trolling (if you think obama is a socialist then you're an idiot who is drinking the republican koolaid!)
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Re:
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I've been thinking about giving myself a name just to reduce confusion. Not sure.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I get annoyed when people use the Anonymous Coward label as an excuse to discount the merits of what I (or others) say.
However, I also post an another site where there is a high incidence of legit trolling (just trying to get a rise out of people) and use of monikers designed to ensure anonymity, and I find that annoying as well.
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Why just "a" name? Get several!
/s
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Re:
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Names
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Re: Re:
While I note that you are too cowardly to post your own true identity.
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Re:
Troll detected!
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Yeah, I know what you mean. I'd love to be able to hunt some of those people down and make them "accountable" for what they said.
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Hmmm. Might be an interesting read. What's the url to this liberal website that wants everything free?
I know you can't talking about Techdirt, because what is discussed around here are smart business models. Some of those business models may include giving away the infinite goods as a way to increase profits from the scarce goods though.
Giving away everything for free would be a really, really stupid business model.
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Re:
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He had good input, and when people talk about valuable ACs, that is who I think about. Despite a dissenting opinion, he had valuable input and a different take on things. Aside from one or two months in his commenting history, I highly welcomed him here and defended him when people called him a troll, even though the 'other side' would say that I am a drinker of the 'kool-aid'.
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I just mean accountability even within the sphere of the site - in many cases, a consistent but false identity would be preferable to no identity at all.
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Why not use a unique name then? You don't have to make an account, you are still as anonymous as ever and everyone else can distinguish you from the trolling AC's.
The only reason I can think of that might make one not want to do this is that they want to remain unaccountable for anything they have previously said and that really is cowardice in my opinion.
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re:
I can certainly think of some Techdirt regulars that make senseless and inflammatory posts that conform to the dominant viewpoint her, but I don't ever recall them being labelled as trolls.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Other people give your views due consideration, why not consider their views as well?
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Another reason for me is that, as a professional advocate, I have a duty to advocate for my client's interests/position regarding legal issues that are often not identical to my personal preference. Although I don't mind of someone on this site wants to throw something I said previously back in my face (I think I'm pretty consistent, so I'm not too worried about that), I do not want to risk something I say on this site being thrown back at me in a professional context.
That risk might be pretty slim, and maybe having a consistent name wouldn't change the risk much, but so far I haven't felt there was much reason to have a consistent name.
In other words, I want to be free to say what I really think here (I generally don't comment on matters that relate to actual clients).
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Whoosh. Simple Mind's point sailed way over your head.
It's not about true identities. It's about accountability. I can click on the word "profile" next to Simple Mind's name and *ta-da* there is every comment he has posted on Techdirt. You, on the other hand, could have said the exact opposite yesterday or on the last story and I would never know, hence, Simple Mind's comments hold more weight in my mind. Even those who don't have an account, but always use the same name (Hothmonster comes to mind) hold more weight than an AC in my opinion.
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Ok. Fair enough. What might some of those be?
And how would using a unique name without creating an account change any of that?
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I think the consistent name only really changes the calculation by reducing one step in the chain of connecting an IRL identity to TD posts.
In other words, once you figure out ConsistentName's IRL identify, you can connect all of that poster's statements to his/her real identity. On the other hand, even if you somehow figure out the IRL identify of a particular Anonymous Coward in a thread, that doesn't necessarily mean you know all the other posts in other threads that can be attributed to that IRL identity.
I'm no master in Internet Wizardry, so maybe I'm wrong about that.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
I really think you need to take a little time out and consider your own implications in "creating" a trolling problem. You are a cause, not an effect.
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Re: Hmmm
I tried to go to an Anonymousics Anonymous meeting once, but no one would tell me where it was...
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Power drinks
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Re: Re: Disastrous first sentence ?
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Re: Jerk
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Re: Re: Pot, meet Kettle
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Re: Re: Re: Pot, meet Kettle
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Re:
And I don't see anything up there that says that this site is averse to other opinions. But more on that in the "addressing the group" comment...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Pot, meet Kettle
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Re: Not to shabby ...
I'm going to coattail ride on your firstie, if I may. This way others can see a statement from the author before they post anything more about slamming ACs/dissenting opinions.
First of all, on the AC note: I am not pushing every AC into the "troll" bin. In fact, I make it quite clear that there are a number of ACs who are insightful/funny, etc. And I quote:
Don't let the Anonymous Coward label fool you, though. Techdirt is filled with thoughtful and humorous AC's, while also serving as a host for a variety of proudly-named trolls. The real trolls are the commenters who show up for one reason: to insult as many Techdirt readers as possible while simultaneously trying to reframe the debate around their own twisted logic.
Trolling is NOT engaging in the debate. I have seen many discussions lapse into trolling after a promising start. It usually goes this way:
Commenter 1: I disagree with this post. Here's the basis of my disagreement.
Commenter 2: Rebuttal.
Commenter 1: [Uses any of the following while restating original statement] hypocrite, retard, freetard, geek, nerd, fanboy, koolaid drinker, prick, asshole, pirate, thief, basement dweller, "lives at mom's house", etc.
For example, see this thread, starting at the linked comment (which doesn't start very promising, but could have been bailed out if this AC hadn't decided to press on with the attack):
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110707/03264014993/riaa-accounting-how-to-sell-1-mill ion-albums-still-owe-500000.shtml#c268
Those of you still deciding whether or not I'm labeling everyone with a "wrong" opinion as a troll needs to read the post again. I do not mind an actual debate. I don't label commenters as trolls unless they are actually trolling. And here's the kicker: you can look it up.
I've got my real name, plus my alter ego, both linked to a profile where you can go through all of my comments and posts for this site. My record is out there for everyone to access. The point being made about AC's is the fact that there's no way to point out their contradictions, inflammatory heckling or whatever.
Personally, I don't care. I don't think everyone should grab a handle and an account. Just be aware that your arguments MAY get dismissed more easily if there's no track record. That's just logic and human nature. If anybody can be anybody and say anything, then there's really no culpability for comments made. It could always be "some other AC."
I like having my record out there. It allows me to back up statements I've made.
Here's the other thing: If you feel this post has labeled you as a troll, take a good, long look at your actions here at Techdirt. If you know you've trolled here and this stings a bit? Good. It should.
Here's another tip:
If you come here to argue a viewpoint that disagrees with the post's content, then bring your A game. You absolutely have to do that. You're the "Visiting" team. Bring quotes. Bring links. Bring anything you can to back up your statements. Yeah, it seems unfair because we've already got our ammo, but if the roles are reversed, you would expect the same from us.
This post was directed at trolls. If you're not one, you know it. If you are, you'd be pissed off anyway, whether this article was bashing trolls or telling you the sun is still rising in the east.
Flame on.
CLT
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But yes, I am trolling you. Because you have called me a prick some dozen-odd times in the last two days. Because you have been making repeated wildly incorrect accusations about my life and my career, and ignoring my responses entirely. Because you are a fucking hypocritical tool and I will troll you as much as I damn well please.
Your sudden attempt to act all rational and levelheaded on this one thread is not fooling anybody. Anyone who has seen your comments over the last two days knows that, any time now, you will be back to your pigheaded non-logic and creepy stalkeresque behaviour.
You have been hanging around Techdirt for a long time it seems, under a variety of guises, sometimes anonymous sometimes not (and yet it is always so obviously you). You never change, and you never leave for long. And lately you seem to have made me a particular target, to the point of bringing me up in discussions I'm not even involved in. When I try to defend myself, you call me a prick and make feeble attempts to undermine my career. So the way I see it, I have two choices when it comes to dealing with you: put up with you constantly derailing every discussion while making completely pointless attempts to talk to you rationally, or childishly call you names.
At least this way the community gets the occasional laugh.
(once again, this comment was not for your benefit, but for anyone with a brain who wants to understand my motives. If it was for your benefit, I would have just said your skull is so thick the TSA makes you take an MRI before you get on a plane)
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Re: What about the professional trolls?
Nothing like a good flame war to sharpen your debating skills!
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Re: Re: What about the professional trolls?
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Re: Re: Re: What about the professional trolls?
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Re: Re: Re: What about the professional trolls?
...connected using a cradle modem...
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I am only an effect to your cause. Stop causing, and there will be no effect. There is no "fooling" going on here. You start it, and I will take it to the end of the earth (and you will lose every time, because you always get angry). You don't start it, and it doesn't happen.
So you can either make the community better, or you can keep making it suck. That is entirely up to you.
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trololololol
...trolloholic?
trollolololoholic!
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Re: Re: Not to shabby ...
You say that, but how do we know it's true? Your real name? What kind of background investigation did Techdirt do on you to determine that? And "all" your comments? How do we know that, either? You could have any number of accounts that you post under and, since Techdirt doesn't verify identities, we'd never know that all those other comments were also yours. Perhaps when you feel like trolling or being a jerk, you just use different accounts. Or maybe you use them to agree with yourself. But a lot of people don't stop to consider that possibility and just assume that different accounts belong to different people. That's why "accounts" are a sock-puppet troll's best friend.
I could register dozens of accounts and use different addresses with each of them. Would that make you happy? Really? When someone posts as "anonymous", at least they're being honest about it.
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He builds a decent reputation, then begins to go off the deep end when someone throws a monkey wrench in his laid out plans. And woe betide if you say he's wrong on something. Honestly, I wonder if sometimes he's bi-polar.
He has a good side, it's just that the negative side seems to get the better of him and leave a longer lasting impression on my mind.
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BTW, have you found your balls yet?
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Yeah, I thought I made that clear when I said "yes, I am trolling you" and "I will troll you as much as I damn well please"
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Re: Re: Re: Not to shabby ...
I don't recall saying anything about being against anonymous commenters. I just said that it stacks the deck against the commenter when there's no history to measure their comments against, which isn't being disingenuous. It's just the way it is.
And I would imagine anyone with cursory internet skills would be able to verify my existence and internet history. After all, my real name can be found on Facebook. My blog is registered to my email address, etc.
I've got better things to do than register several personas just so I can troll. I'm trying to build a writing career, so it would make sense that I tie as much as possible to my actual name rather than hiding behind a bunch of sock puppets.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pot, meet Kettle
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Re: Power drinks
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"Oh, and you weren't baiting me with your comment that is very obviously about me (and the two Tims)?"
I don't see anything in my post that is baiting you. I stated my opinion that the people being rewarded with the right to add new articles here are often the most narrow minded of the lot. I am not trying to get your goat (or either of the Tim's for that matter), I am stating an observation. I think perhaps you may want to work on growing slightly thicker skin if you think that is baiting.
If you think that is bait, then what you are saying is that I don't have a right to an opinion, but you do. Is that really fair and honest?
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I don't pre-judge your posts based on the name next to them. I read them like they are a "techdirt" post, and go from there.
every anonymous person here could post with 100 different names, changing tack and changing opinion with every post. Would they be somehow more credible because they have a name next to their posts, even if they are just making stuff up to slag you off?
For me, I take this entire post more like an open invitation to ignore anonymous posters, a battle cry for the techdirt masses. It's amusing, because some of the biggest trolls on the site post with their names.
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It's not a question of beliefs. That's just the way it is.
And I would imagine anyone with cursory internet skills would be able to verify my existence and internet history. After all, my real name can be found on Facebook. My blog is registered to my email address, etc.
Yeah, and I'm the Queen of England. I even have a website to prove it: http://www.royal.gov.uk/HMTheQueen/HMTheQueen.aspx . So even with your "cursory internet skills" you should be able to "verify my existence".
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That is hardly the only thing you don't understand.
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Really? You have a career?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not to shabby ...
Alright, the issue here seems to be that you feel I discount every AC comment. I don't. If we can get back into the context of the post (trolling), then this may make more sense.
If an AC posts a comment that is antagonistic or "troll-like," it will nearly always be treated as such because there is no way to judge it differently. Now, if a commenter has an actual account, then a person can click on their profile and see if they normally make this sort of comment (in which case, they're a named troll) or if this seems out of the ordinary as compared to their history of commenting and perhaps should be treated differently. That's the advantage of having a profile. You may make a troll-like outburst but be given a second chance.
If it's just AC, then it could be any AC, possibly a driveby or someone just looking for a way to kill some time. So, in effect, you are being judged on the content of your comment.
I also don't pre-judge comments but if it seems to add nothing more than cries of "bullshit" or whatever, I will likely assume that someone is just trolling, no matter if they are a long-time reader or not. Without a profile, I have no way of knowing that this commmenter possibly has something better to say.
For me, I take this entire post more like an open invitation to ignore anonymous posters, a battle cry for the techdirt masses. It's amusing, because some of the biggest trolls on the site post with their names.
You can take this any way you want and there's nothing I can do to stop it. And, if you'll note, I actually pointed out that some of our biggest trolls have names. I also took great care to point out that not all ACs are trolls.
As for the other issue at hand (my identity), let me ask you directly: do you think I'm lying about who I am? Do you think I have multiple accounts here so I can do the things you've mentioned (troll, compliment myself, etc.)?
The reason I'm asking is because you seem to be leaning towards the conclusion that I do those things. I'm curious as to why you would think that.
Here's the deal: I know that there is no way I could convince you 100% that I am who I say I am. What irritates me about this is that this speculation has even entered the discussion. I have an account with 40+ posts and 600+ comments in it. Even if it was fake, there's plenty in there for anyone to use against me if they saw something contradictory on my part.
I fail to see how being "anonymous" is more honest than a person using their real name. I fail to see how it's more honest than a fake name with a real "paper trail."
As I stated before (twice), there are several excellent AC commenters. I also stated that I don't care if people prefer anonymity. The only point I'm trying to make is that if an AC does something "troll-like," they will be labelled a troll faster than someone whose commenting history shows that they don't normally troll. There's no history with ACs.
This post I wrote dealt specifically with trolls. The fact that many of them were ACs is just the way it is. Plenty of people abuse anonymity. Others handle it better.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not to shabby ...
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Yeah, what a hypocrite. (It's not trolling to identify a hypocrite when it's true.)
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And I'm pretty sure that a majority of the registered users are NOT spending time in the comments section in hopes of being able to troll later. Trolls seem to be more "spur of the moment" than "overly elaborate evil plan."
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If it makes you feel better, I gave up a lot of theoretically productive time hunting down those links.
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"Mutual Mastibation' or "Mindfull mass debating" ??
For having a different opinion you find it easiest to label them 'trolls' after all, that is simpler than trying to actually ADRESS the issues they have raised.
People who post here, have every right to place any name they like on the top, or change it at any time.
And yes, you should be looking at the issues, and not the person who is stating them.
I guess it is really hard to make your attack against the people who post things you do not agree with if you do not know who they are !
But if you only addressed the issues and not the person you would not have that problem, it is not who said it, it is what they said !
That is why I base my comments on 'generally' Mikes posts based on the CONTENT of the post, I do not attack the person, but I am happy to attack the issues.
There are some things that Mike says that I actually agree with !!!. But having a differing opinion that the author of the post does NOT make you a troll.
Or would you rather an endless comments section all stating.
"WOW the person who wrote this post is just f*&^ing perfect, that is exactly how I think...... "
Would that for you be 'better' than a lively debate and real discussion of the issues.
Or would you rather come to a "YES" site, and all mutually mastibate each other ?
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Re: "Mutual Mastibation' or "Mindfull mass debating" ??
Everyone has gone to great lengths to ensure that it was impossible for someone to genuinely feel that having a different opinion was considered trolling and to define trolling for what it is.
The various definitions fundamentally covering exactly what you just did, complete, I might add, with all the usual accoutrements of trolling, using all caps for magic words, horrendous misspellings, multiple exclamation marks, the lot.
Gosh, maybe I've misjudged you and your joke of a comment was actually intended to be a joke comment.
+1 Funny to be on the safe side.
PS. If the all caps words were the most important bits
The highlights apparently are:
Address content not yes.
Which bizarrely makes more sense than the rest of it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not to shabby ...
For example:
Hikaricore mentions this nice innocent phrase:
I personally think nothing should be censored on the internet. That's not to say that I condone kiddy porn in any way shape or form.
Of course, given the GIFT theory we have an anonymous person take that phrase, roll it down the hill, land in sewage, and try to throw it back in the face of others.
""That's not to say that I condone kiddy porn in any way shape or form. "
Maybe not from your perspective.
But it would be fair to argue that you care more about freedom of speech than you do about preventing the re-victimization of children as the pictures/videos of their abuse are spread online.
When it comes to child abuse, most people do not share your "libertarian" perspective. Particularly not voters, a large percent of whom have had kids themselves.
That is why child pornograpy blacklisting will always be considered appropriate, and guys like Rick will fail in their drive to label all censorship as evil."
Of course, I speak for no one but myself, and when you read the article, it explains in great detail how those in the copyright industry are using child porn (Buck, you did the exact same thing and wouldn't stop) to actively allow the internet to be censored.
My response is a little more inflammatory than I really am here, but you're free to read it however you want. It's a valid number of points I brought up. And yet, seeing a comment derail an entire page just to drop knowledge on a fool is pretty wearing.
The point is, I'm pretty sure he might work for certain organizations. After reading that article, it's amazing that people can use such a tact. But it's definitely worth paying attention to when someone decides to use it and answer appropriately.
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We notice NiceDoggy or Hothmonster's comments. Even though they post pseudo anonymously, we can see the consistency of their statements and positions, where it's impossible if someone keeps their name as an AC.
You have to pay more attention to tone and style of writing. And that can carefully be masked to give the impression of a new AC when it might really be one of 20 people.
No, Mike isn't going to unsalt a hash or whatever, but it doesn't take much to figure out how people want others to approach them. We just respond in kind.
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Re: "Mutual Mastibation' or "Mindfull mass debating" ??
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If you have to ask that then you really don't know much about lawsuits, lawyers and subpoenas.
No, Mike isn't going to unsalt a hash or whatever,
Do you really thing Mike would refuse a direct court order? I doubt it.
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If you're worried about lawsuits, then maybe you shouldn't say things to get yourself in trouble in the first place. Simple.
I really don't think Techdirt should allow anonymous comments at all. All commenters should be required to use registered accounts and all accounts should be associated with a credit card, at the very least, to make it easier to bring rogue commenters to court. To do otherwise is irresponsible.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not to shabby ...
I think dissenting opinions, when expressed with the same type of tone as most of the concurring opinions here, are often viewed as "antagonistic" or "troll-like" despite being similar in tone.
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Crazy people, for starters. The Internet's full of 'em. I'm not particularly worried about sane, emotionally stable people finding out who I am.
I'm not sure what you're getting at with the tone/style bit.
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re trolls.
on a side note, yeah I post as anonymous troll. ya wanna know why? cuz i'm sick of the time wasting registration process and i don't want any more spam when someone hacks your server.
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therefore the point is proven
everyone is a troll
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LITTLE TIP
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Had to borrow it
I had to borrow your article for another blog I frequently use.
If you want to see the post, it can be found here:
http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/widespread-flooding-in-japan-chinese-netizen-reactions. html/comment-page-1#comment-120634
Given that blog, and after reading this, I could not resist.
Hope you don't mind.
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Re: "Mutual Mastibation' or "Mindfull mass debating" ??
Or will you rather come to a "YES" site, and all mutually masturbate each other
FTFY
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