Of Course: New Fox Delay Means More Unauthorized Downloads Of Fox Shows
from the this-isn't-rocket-science dept
Back in July, when the Fox Network announced plans to block or delay many of its popular shows from going online, we predicted this would increase the number of unauthorized downloads. This just seemed stupid. People want to access it online and they will access it online. Why not offer it to them in an easy and convenient manner that can be monetized. Of course, when others pointed out the same thing, the geniuses at the MPAA threw a hissy fit about how even admitting that Fox's stupid business decision might increase unauthorized file sharing was the equivalent of praising "stealing."So, um, I wonder how the MPAA's brilliant strategists will respond to the news that, in the first week of Fox's delays alone, unauthorized downloads of some of its most popular shows increased massive amounts, doubling or tripling what they were before. In fact, that article notes that many of the people viewing it through unauthorized means left comments about how they tried to watch via legal channels, but couldn't.
So I'm wondering how the folks at the MPAA might explain this. Are they going to throw another tantrum and blame "reality" for supporting file sharing? Or will someone there finally buy a clue and recognize that not providing consumers what they want is a bad business decision. I guess that would require someone at the MPAA to actually have experience in business -- but they all seem to be lawyers or political flunkies.
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Filed Under: consumers, culture, downloads, fox, tv
Companies: fox, hulu, mpaa, news corp.
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In the steps of Stephen Colbert...
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Fixed that for ya.
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.. the geniuses at the MPAA threw a hissy fit ..
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"The recent surge in online piracy has dramatically surged in the last week putting the economy at risk and jeopardizing creativity. It is clear that current laws are insufficient to tackle the problem and reforms are needed. The Protect IP Act, while does provide improvements needs to have capital punishment added to it along with the removal of safe harbors from the DMCA and the inclusion of filters to prevent access to rogue sites that will be listed by MAFIAA and its affiliates."
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Jeez, Mike
If you (and Roettger, et.al.) hadn't told the world that it's OK to download illegally, people wouldn't have done it. Socialist freetard!
It can't possibly be anything Fox did wrong. 'Cause they're, you know. Experts.
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Re: Jeez, Mike
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Re: Jeez, Mike
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The Truth Will Out
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Buy a clue?
Why would they buy one when they can get them for free online? Clue piracy is single-handedly destroying the clue market. Mike and the rest of the freetards here who are giving clues away are a big part of the problem. If they aren't stopped soon, everyone will have a clue and they won't have paid a dime for it. Tragic.
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By the way, it was Mr Green with the knife in the observatory. And he did it all with a USB Drive!
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MPAA Irrelevant
I wouldn't expect an organization such as the MPAA or RIAA to change their talking points because A) their income from memberships depends on there being a problem that they need to fix, and B) big groups about never ever admit they are wrong. Most individuals have a hard time admitting they were wrong, let alone such a large collection of said individuals who depend on their comments being right (reality be damned).
Of course, a great possible outcome out of this for Fox is to say, "Hey, we see you guys don't want to wait so we will no longer delay the release online." The best would be for ALL in the video entertainment biz to look at this, and all other evidence such as the mountain of studies, and to just remove windows entirely on everything. I would love to see them try that for even just a quarter of a year, and to see the piracy numbers then. I bet they would drop by quite a bit. However, I will not be holding my breath for such an outcome.
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Re: MPAA Irrelevant
They fear new, they fear each other.
They keep trying to dribble the content out a drop at a time, making sure they extract every possible cent. Then they gather up what was dribbled out, and try putting it into a new bottle and try again.
They keep repackaging the content, and then wonder why the super secret special edition that is the 4th version in 1 year isn't selling well.
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Re: Re: MPAA Irrelevant
I disagree here. If they were trying to "extract every possible cent", they wouldn't be dribbling it out or making it harder for fans to pay them.
That's all this really is - Fox is trying ways to make it harder for their viewers to give them money. How is that *ever* a good business decision?
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It's amazing how people feel entitled to have it now, regardless.
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(a) Criminal Infringement. —
(1) In general. — Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed —
(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;
(B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000; or
(C) by the distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution, by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public, if such person knew or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution."
A and C obviously don't apply which leaves section B which only applies if the total retail value of the episode being copied is over $1,000.
Don't lecture others on 'reality' if you've got no fucking clue what it is yourself.
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but I'm pretty sure you don't get to apply the whole criminal statute if only one little piece of the requirements is met....
Someone downloading a show with a retail value of more than $1000 for them to 'time shift' the show they missed on TV does not make them guilty of criminal copyright infringement.
There is no commercial advantage or financial gain involved, and there is no commercial distribution...
Don't lecture other on 'reality' if you've got no clue where to download it yourself.....
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Feel like trolling?
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There are plenty of ridiculous laws on the books, and just like laws requiring ducks to wear long pants, many IP laws are ignored not because people are inherently immoral, but because they don't see an ethical problem with what they're doing.
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The secret is out....
This is especially funny for anything that is broadcast in the clear over the public airwaves.
Anyone is free to snatch it and either burn or upload it.
People realize that they can expect better.
You just can't ignore the customer like that and get away with it. This will only get worse, not better. Nip it in the bud before "doing for yourself" becomes an entrenched norm.
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No, you're just a FLOWTARD!
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Before delays: I'll just load up Fox.com and watch it Saturday. Then, when Thursday rolls around, I can pick up the show without missing a beat.
After delays: Since it won't be online for two weeks or ever I will just have to now watch the rest of the season on a two week delay online on my computer or buy/rent when it comes out on DVD since I don't want to keep watching when I could have missed something important. Or, torrent, watch, delete, and back on the couch next Thursday.
Who is entitled here?
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That is a sense of entitlement.
Now, if you had half a brain, you would get a pvr, and record the show on Thursday, watch it on Saturday, and not waste your time (and effort) torrenting and breaking the law.
Oh wait, you want it on your schedule, you want it now, and you don't want to have to make an effort to get it.
I understand. It's called entitlement.
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guess what, people don't buy that. Give it to them in a manner you make money or don't they are still gonna watch it. Whether they are entitled or immoral doesn't matter, its gonna happen.
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Totally Serious Question Alert: Are you retarded?
Because only a person with a severe learning disability can't see this for what it is. If I went to a car dealership to buy a vehicle and they didn't have the color I was looking for do you think the sales person would say:
"God, you have such a sense of entitlement. Just take a chill pill. We have silver cars and silver is just as good as red. Get over yourself."
Or do you think they would get me the red car?
TV is entertainment, it isn't a necessity. Idiots like you take that to mean entertainment can be MORE restrictive about how, what, where, and when but in reality it means that people fit entertainment into their schedules at their convenience. So, here we are, you vs. reality. My money is on reality.
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Before you say anything about ads, keep in mind that everyone skips them on a DVR, which is perfectly legal.
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You're not really with us are you, sir? Why should I do a) when I can do b) and both offer the same result?
The truth and reality of the situation is that if the show is over - so is your window. Embrace and adapt or chase and get slapped.
We already know your position is a horrendous uphill battle do we not? What are you battling for exactly? Money? Can't be you're loosing it. Customer loyalty.. yeah, no. Control - going, going ... shows over.
It would seem to me that my "entitlement" will beat your window and anything you have to offer to date. I am glad that you understand for understanding part of the problem can, at times, lead to a solution. You telling me what to do and how to do it is most definitely not the correct solution to your problem.
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Re: Now, if you had half a brain, you would get a pvr, and record the show on Thursday, watch it on Saturday, and not waste your time (and effort) torrenting and breaking the law.
If there were a law to make it illegal to exploit legal loopholes, that would put a stop to this sort of corruption once and for all.
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Rich.
My irony vat has been filled for years to come.
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I'm trying to understand that logic, I will get a free copy either way, where is the profit?
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The part where it said "The restrictions in the earlier act were encouraged by those with interests in the UK railway industry and horse-drawn carriages." translates to Recording industry today.
And no, it's not alternative, the UK railway industry.
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...trust me, they know...
/foil_hat
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Instead of bitching and moaning (and insulting people) about this occurring and demanding people change their desires, the solution is to provide them what they want in a way that continues to make you money. Driving them to piracy (which makes you no money) is a business failure. It's throwing away money.
Why is this so hard for the copyright boner coalition to understand? Your copyright is worthless if no one wants to see/read/listen to it. Instead of doing everything possible to not give people access to it in ways they want in a manner that allows you to make money, you're encouraging piracy. Maybe you should start suing yourself for doing so, isn't aiding and abetting piracy a crime?
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Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 22nd, 2011 @ 12:53pm
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Is downloading torrents becoming mainstream?
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Absolutely. But besides that, I think it's worth pointing out that Fox's new delay affects Hulu users, who are probably "online savvy" to begin with.
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Never underestimate the power of human ingenuity.
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Never underestimate the power of human ingenuity.
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Certainly, "geek-type" shows are popular downloads, but all you have to do is say, look at the most popular weekly downloads on sites that track that info such as Torrent Freak, and you will find that it's all "mainstream" pap.
I've seen "niche" content on some sites with thousands of up/down numbers (for instance, stuff like eBooks and anime), but they were vastly outnumbered by the numbers of people down/up on stuff like Jersey Shore, 24, the latest Rihanna album or Gene Simmons Family Jewels for instance, which would be in the tens of thousands.
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Because you can't compete with free, that's why.
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The problem is unmet demand, pure and simple. I don't torrent anything, but even people that do would realize that watching a nice copy from the official site (or Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, iTunes, GoogleTV, etc.) for 99 cents is FAR EASIER than pirating.
If each household in the US averaged $100 per year on this model, they would make $10 billion.
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All PPV all the time.
All PPV, all the time is actually a really stupid idea.
Most people are not self-aware enough or mathematically inclined enough to realize it.
Although the bill at the end of the month might give them sticker shock.
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Re: All PPV all the time.
The $2 per week is only when you miss something, want to catch up on something, don't have room on your DVR, etc.
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Re: Ima Fish
I face the same issue every time I want to watch UFC fights. I'd pay a few bucks a month for last week's or last month's fights if Dana White would stream them online in a quality format and secure transaction. Instead I have to search the web for streams of free but dubious quality sites... One thing is for sure, I'm no longer willing to subsidize my other tv shows (available on the net) and my cable company $120/month just to watch UFC fights.
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it's just that you have to provide value beyond what is free.
Netflix is easy to use, fast, and there are cheap and easy ways to get it on the living room tv. That's why people pay for it.
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That is the true issue underneath even the collapse of controllable distribution systems. These people aren't business savvy at all. A real business person would've yoinked the Napster model (what would Napster do about it, sue?), stuffed a series of socks in the sucking black holes howling about piracy, monetized it up, and here nearly 2 decades later we wouldn't be talking about this at all.
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But then again no other industry (ok, maybe wireless) has all the policitians in their pockets like Don Corleone. Oh, and screwing over your customers is a good example of non-partisan politics. Turns out that greed is universal.
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Big pharma, major oil companies, the banking industry - you know - all the usual folks who have taken advantage of the taxpayers over the years.
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Financial institutions? Airlines?
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I don't understand the need to log in through your isp
What if I didn't have an ISP account? I am not allowed to watch Fox network shows?
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Re: I don't understand the need to log in through your isp
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Re: Re: I don't understand the need to log in through your isp
I can't get a signal when it rains, the digital gets all blocky.
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Just Stupid
Even if you try to do things the right way they push you away. Maybe Google will help them.
I enjoyed the show BTW
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It's like ala carte TV for the criminally nuts.
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Filelocker download, and I'm good to go.
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The commercial conundrum.
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Yes, please...
Yes, please. It's called The Path of Least Resistance. A very human thing. Look it up and think about it the next time you want to cross the road.
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Conditioning
I never really minded before when advertisements, delays, and schedules were a fixture, but now that I've become accustomed to watching what I want, when I want, how I want, and where I want, anything less is quite unpalatable.
The masses know what's possible. We know what's arbitrary and what's not. Like a lion who's tasted human blood, we've got a taste of freedom and we like it. We no longer have to schedule our whole lives around when a show will come on, we no longer have to rush home to sit in front of a television, and we don't have to program the VCR when we're on vacation.
Is it entitlement we feel? From a business perspective it doesn't really matter. People generally give other people money in exchange for something they want. If you don't have what they want, don't be surprised if they don't give you any money. What we want has changed. Will you?
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What I don't see is these little dramas with any sort of care about them. I don't see the ads, I don't see the shows, don't even have a clue as to what shows are on the air, when they are on the air.
I'm literally a lost customer and don't really care what they show. I won't be paying for tv service in any form. Not in money, not in attention time.
If they want to put an episode out now and another next year, I don't care.
After the above what is being done is stupid. You tell your customers you aren't making enough money and then shut off access? When they have other means, that isn't going to work. What it is, is denying reality with a make believe idea we can enforce whatever we wish and no one will do anything counter to that. Just as well be living in story book land.
Those that used to run these business were entertainers, not lawyers. They understood what it took to relate to the fan and the fan responded by giving what is now referred to as the "golden days".
Now if those businesses don't like what's going on or they aren't getting enough money as they see it, then it is sue time or there is some sort of something we can do to piss off the user. It has neither endeared the industries nor the products to the users.
Just as I have found other things to do so have others found different things to do with their time as well.
The economy isn't supporting this entitlement idea either. In hard times, the first thing to go is discretionary spending. All of what isn't necessary to survive on goes. PPV is definitely going to be on the list of those industries made victim by bad economic times. Trying to increase money flow by suing your customer isn't good business at all. Time will tell them that constantly jacking up rates on PPV wasn't too successful either when the economy isn't doing well.
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They were trying "not to canibalise" their network audience with Hulu, but I don't think they really put the necessary effort into researching how their clients behave. I tend to thing they looked this over, since there isn't even a trace of concrete justification in their statement.
I doubt that the majority of people watching the shows on TV and the ones watching it on Hulu represent the same targets/categories of people. If you're trying to avoid canibalisation, first thing to do is to find out who's using what. Then you can start to think.
ps. My english is bad, I know.
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Major Growth Area
Until America collapses under the weight of regulations and lawsuits. Then it will be called...the EU.
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It just seems reasonable that if lawyers are the ones that keep all of this going, that there would be another lawyer or group of lawyers that would be willing to fight from the other side.
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You want more law? Open up the books and prove why.
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"NEW YORK - A Queens man, who allegedly streamed live copyrighted sporting events over the Internet illegally, was arrested this morning by agents with Homeland Security Investigations (HSI).
Mohamed Ali, 19, of Hollis, N.Y., was taken into custody at his home and charged with one count of criminal infringement of a copyright. He was the operator of HQ-STREAMS.COM and HQ-STREAMS.NET. Both of those domain names were seized by HSI on Feb. 1, 2011, as part of an ongoing HSI investigation into websites that illegally streamed copyrighted sporting telecasts and pay-per-view events.
The investigation into Ali revealed he made more than $6,000 in profits from online merchants who paid subscription fees to view copyrighted material. Since the seizure, both sites have received more than 50,000 hits combined.
"Today's arrest sends a clear message to website operators who mistakenly believe it's worth the risk to take copyrighted programming and portray it as their own," said ICE Director John Morton. "Protecting legitimate business interests are a priority for HSI, the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center and our law enforcement partners. We are dedicated to protecting the jobs, the income and the tax revenue that disappear when organized criminals traffic in stolen content for their own profit."
According to the criminal complaint and seizure affidavit unsealed today in Manhattan federal court, from approximately February 2010 to January 2011, Mohamed Ali used HQ-STREAMS.COM and HQ-STREAMS.NET to allegedly infringe on copyrighted material from the World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE), Ultimate Fighting Championship and (UFC) and boxing events for purposes of commercial advantage and private financial gain.
Visitors to HQ-STREAMS.COM and HQ-STREAMS.NET paid a subscription fee of $6, $12 and up to $25 to click on one of a number of links to begin the process of downloading or streaming illegal broadcasts of sporting events to their computers. During the investigation leading to the Feb. 1, 2011, seizures, HSI agents downloaded portions of live and taped copyrighted telecasts of these events from HQ-STREAMS.COM and HQ-STREAMS.NET.
Ali registered the HQ-STREAMS.COM and HQ-STREAMS.NET domain names in February 2010 and operated the websites until the time of their seizure out of his home in Hollis.
The National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center (IPR Center) is one of the U.S. government's key weapons in the fight against criminal counterfeiting and piracy. As a task force, the IPR Center uses the expertise of its 19 member agencies to share information, develop initiatives, coordinate enforcement actions, and conduct investigations related to IP theft. Through this strategic interagency partnership, the IPR Center protects the public's health and safety, the U.S. economy and the war fighters.
To report IP theft or to learn more about the IPR Center, visit www.IPRCenter.gov.
This case is being handled by the Complex Frauds Unit of the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York. Assistant U.S. Attorney Christopher D. Frey is in charge of the prosecution.
The charge contained in the complaint is merely an accusation, and the defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty."
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Fox Delay
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Legal vs. illegal
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Re: Legal vs. illegal
Give it a rest, you're wrong and you know it.
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Re: Legal vs. illegal
2. It is copyright infringement, and I have no idea where you're seeing anyone say otherwise
3. As Joe explained, copyright infringement is not necessarily morally wrong.
For example, I have a game that I couldn't find one of the install discs for. So I downloaded it. This is a game that was actually paid for and I have a legitimate license key. You're going to tell me I stole the game by downloading it?
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