Canadian Pharmacies React To US Gov't Taking $500 Million From Google Over Their Ads
from the this-doesn't-help-keep-people-safe dept
While the Justice Department spun the taking of $500 million from Google as an important step in "protecting Americans," the reality appears to be that it's doing exactly the opposite. While there certainly may be some online pharmacies that sell fake and fraudulent (and potentially dangerous) drugs, the government is conveniently conflating those scammers with legitimate drugs reimported to the US as gray market imports. Those are still legitimate drugs, but are just more reasonably priced. In such cases, a very strong argument can be made for the fact that these drugs do a ton to "protect Americans" by allowing them to stay healthy at a more reasonable price. This is why President Obama repeatedly claimed that he was in favor of reimportation and why there's a bill going through Congress, as we speak, to allow more of it. So, it still makes no sense why the administration -- which officially supports greater reimportation -- would go after Google because some pharmacies used reimportation.But even more to the point, the Canadian pharmacies -- who, again, were selling legitimate versions of these drugs -- are reasonably annoyed about the whole thing, and are noting that the real harm will come to Americans who can no longer get safe and affordable drugs. In fact, they may now be pushed to go to much more questionable pharmacy operations since Google will no longer point them to those who had been certified. The President of one of those pharmacies, Jan Drugs, has been passing around this open letter to Google:
Dear Google,Indeed, it's somewhat surprising that more Americans who rely on such things haven't spoken up about this effort by the US government which now puts them in much greater danger, either from being unable to afford the drugs they need to stay alive or by leading them to order from much less trustworthy sources.
I am David Janeson, President of Jan Drugs. Jandrugs.com, based in Winnipeg, Canada, is a brick-and -mortar regulated and licensed pharmacy and fills prescriptions for Americans from Canada and other countries. We advertised with Google Adwords, and some small percentage of the money that you are now forfeiting to the U.S. Department of Justice is due to the money we spent to advertise with you. We provide a valuable service to our patients, and Google by allowing us to advertise, helped many Americans obtain the prescriptions they require at prices they can better afford.
Many of our customers first found us through a Google ad. Jan Drugs is blessed to have had over 100,000 American customers order from us over the years. Our customers universally have ordered medicines from us because they were prescribed a prescription drug that they found prohibitively expensive in the US. Jan Drugs is proud that we have helped many peoples lives by helping them find the prescription drugs they need at prices they can afford. Jan Drugs sells medications for conditions including depression, heart disease, high cholesterol, diabetes, cancer and epilepsy. Jan Drugs and it's customers take the position that it is ridiculous to accept that uninsured or underinsured Americans should be expected to pay higher prices than everywhere else in the world.
When Google first cancelled our advertising account we were disappointed. We believed that Google's existing pharmacy verification program should have been strengthened rather than cancelled and that the end of the verification program made the internet a more dangerous place for Americans to find their needed medications. Our pharmacy willingly participated in Google�s chosen certification program, PharmacyChecker, which was required for Jan Drugs to advertise the sale of non-controlled prescription drugs through AdWords to U.S. consumers. Now that we see that Google has paid a very large forfeiture, partly for accepting advertising for companies like Jan Drugs, we understand why you took the position you did.
Jan Drugs believes that access to reliable and affordable medication is a right. We and companies like Jan Drugs have helped millions of Americans save on their prescription medications over the internet in the same way as if they had personally visited us in Canada. Google should be proud of its' previous efforts to make the internet a safer place to purchase medications as millions have benefited and Jan Drugs believes that Google being fined is against the interests of Americans and morally wrong.
Thank you and kind regards,
David Janeson and the Jan Drugs team
250-530 Kenaston Blvd.
Winnipeg MB R3N 1Z4
Canada
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: canada, canadian pharmacies, drugs, safety
Companies: google
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Drug Companies
Corporations are people.
The role of the government is to protect the people.
So, what's the problem?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Drug Companies
And this isn't protecting business. This is limiting competition, which is bad for business and also one of the key reasons American drugs are so expensive.
And the role of the government isn't to protect the people, it is to represent the people, and there is a huge difference between these to roles.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Drug Companies
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Drug Companies
(from wiki)
1 U.S.C. �1 (United States Code) which states:
In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, unless the context indicates otherwise-- the words "person" and "whoever" include corporations, companies, associations, firms, partnerships, societies, and joint stock companies, as well as individuals;
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
I don't know how I feel about considering a corporation a person. On the surface I don't like the idea and think that this would open up a plethora of legal issues, but I'm also wise enough to accept that I am not nearly educated enough about law (especially in a nation other than my own) to form an educated opinion
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
I struggled with this for a while too, but then I had an epiphany. It occurred when I walked into my local Walgreens and saw several workers. I thought: GASP! There's MULTIPLE people working here! That means that this person is made up of MULTIPLE PEOPLE!
I spent the next ten minutes trying to figure out how a person could be made up of multiple people, but then I realized it was an exercize in the kind of stupidity that gives birth to Senators, so I had a cookie and everything went back to normal.
Corporations aren't people. They're corporations.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
The solution? Give them an expiration date. Put it in the charter that they will be dissolved in no more than 100 years (no one has a business life longer than that!), and that all physical and financial assets will be distributed to the shareholders, and all intellectual assets would enter the public domain.
The simple fact is, we need to stop feeding kings and queens.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
A corporation is a legal fiction and only exists because the government issues a charter for it. The charter used to (maybe still does, I don't know) come with various conditions such as not harming society, obeying laws, and generally being reasonably decent citizens of society. When a corporation misbehaved, that violated the charter which was then revoked and the corporation no longer existed. This was not a terribly rare occurrence.
We need to start doing this again.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
hmmm. I quite like that quote now! ;)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
The decision in this historic case (Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission) overturned about a century of campaign finance law. Reversing the well-established laws and judicial precedents barring direct corporate and union financing of elections.
{Begin Shameless Plug}{End Shameless Plug}
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Drug Companies
this does lead to a hilarious side effect:
there are a number of laws floating around in various countries (i am aware of such things in NZ and US law) where, wanting to refer specifically to actual, you know, People, rather than corporations, they have to specify 'real people'.
i figure the only reason they don't use the term 'human' is in case we encounter aliens or something. (it's debateable if an AI counts as a 'real person' or falls in the same slot as a corporation, for example.)
on the subject of corporate charters: once upon a time corporations had a specific end goal. once that goal was completed (and it was almost always something that could not be done by either the government or normal business) the corporation was wrapped up, it payed out to the investors and either it's parts were sold off or it defaulted into government ownership, depending on it's purpose.
(sometimes there was simply a time limit instead, i suppose)
that end goal was not, and should never have been, to generate profit for the shareholders. that was the How of it's function, not the Why. profits were a reward for work done well and used to facilitate the continuation of that work. they were not the goal of the corporation itself or it's charter, even if they were the goal of the individuals who made up that corporation.
somewhere along the way this thought seems to have been lost.
any corporation taking actions contrary to the goal it was created for (hint: game publishing companies? yeah, your charter should be to Publish Games. not make money for the shareholders. crap like DRM is undermining that.) in favour of lining the pockets of its shareholders should lose it's charter pretty much immediately. (how much more so those that undermine their ability to function to make the CEO rich when he retires.)
.... or at least, this is my understanding of things.
also, i cannot think of a single good reason why any corporation who's purpose is not moving things from one country to another should Ever be a multi-national. all that does is remove them from under the effective authority of the only limiters on their behaviour that exist.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Drug Companies
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
100TB
This is what happens when necessary drugs are expensive, with the birth of the internet, if it's not someone in Canada using Google Adwords they are buying from, it will be somewhere and someone else.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Their representative sent them back a form letter talking about something entirely different.
They've been yelling for years, and they gave up.
They wrote, but died before getting any response because they could no longer afford the drugs keeping them alive.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Death before a response
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
I mean, we're talking about buying U.S. drugs and selling that exact same product back the the U.S.! The only reason Canada does this is because we regulate the maximum price a company can charge for a drug, then sell it back to the U.S. at a much higher price than that, which is still cheaper than Americans can buy the exact same drug from their own companies at! It's insanity at it's finest!
I don't see how a common market would fix that... more layers on the problem won't do anything but add to the problem.
To me, the problem and solution are obvious, just do what Canada does. U.S. politics are the only thing keeping them from doing that, but that's an entirely different issue in my mind.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
They allowed the pharm companies to jack up prices above market value; so of course people found a way to circumvent it.
Now we name that a 'loophole' so we can demonize it, then create a few more laws to 'close' it.
Rinse, repeat.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: no solution
WRONG-
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: no solution
Ever checked ANY stats of FDA checking of 'generics' ? No ? Right because they are at the golf course-
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What?!
You mean denying access to legal options causes people to look more into illegal alternatives? I refuse to believe this.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: What?!
I ever wonder if the government, specifically the American government in this case, ever bothered to think long enough about taking this money from Google, to realize the consequences it will have... beyond the interests of the American drug companies that is...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: What?!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Expensive Medication
In Australia, we have a subsidized drug system which is automatically available to 100% of the population. Too expensive? No, the opposite, the Australian health system costs half per head of population compared to what the USA pays. Also, it covers everyone, not just the most wealthy 80% of the population. You Americans are being robbed blind and murdered by your broken health system.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Expensive Medication
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Expensive Medication
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Expensive Medication
And if we stop giving people patents then nothing will be invented. If we get rid of copyright nobody will make write or create movies anymore. If we get rid of trademarks, every product will have the same name.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Expensive Medication
This is complete nonsense. Nobody is forcing the drug companies to sell their drugs cheap. If it's so unprofitable for the drug companies to match the prices the governments require, they can (and should) simply not sell in those countries.
The R&D cost argument is also complete nonsense, as the drug companies spend far for on advertising than R&D, and even then most of the R&D is being spent mostly on high-profit drugs nobody needs (ED drugs, etc.) For certain classes of essential, but not-as-profitable drugs, such as antibiotics, there is almost no R&D money spent.
Also, the drug companies are among the most profitable in the world, and got that way by charging far more than the drugs cost them, including development costs. They are doing what all predatory capitalists do -- charging what the market will bear and buying laws to ensure the market will bear the highest possible cost.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Expensive Medication
WTF!
One question... what drugs are you on?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Expensive Medication
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I wonder if most of those American think they might be doing something illegal, and thus have an incentive to stay quiet?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Or just continue to do the same thing, only now inadvertently going to outlets that sell potentially harmful fakes instead of repackaged genuine drugs... They would probably only speak up if all outlets were closed, which isn't going to be possible.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
If so, won't they eventually face the same challenge?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
http://torrentfreak.com/hotfile-ordered-to-share-user-data-with-the-mpaa-110830/
Amazing what doesn't make it onto Techdirt.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Instead, we are talking pills and defamation cases from Thailand. Do you see how that works?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The problem is America's healthcare system
You know why Canada can sell drugs cheaper then what they cost in America? It's because Canada has a 'socialist' health care system that covers everyone. Canada's government negotiates lower perscription drug costs for every Canadian in the country. Having every Canadian covered by 1 insurance plan gives that insurance plan the leverage it needs to negotiate those lower price drugs.
The most ironic part about America's messed up healthcare system is that Medicare, which most Americans strongly support, is the same kind of 'evil' socialism health care system that would work much better and reduce healthcare costs for everyone. All we'd have to do is have it cover all Americans & gave it the power to negotiate lower perscription drug costs.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: The problem is America's healthcare system
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Thieves...
Anyone but Obama in 2012!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Thieves...
We can elect the Republican'ts, who will then bend over backwards for big oil, trample your civil rights even further, and hold up the bible and say "anyone not following this book is wrong". Is that what you really want?
Oh, wait, you could elect a tea bagger. Yeah, they are good. They will cripple the federal government, transfer most of the powers to the states, and then you can live in a country with 50+ sets of different rules that don't match, with nobody in the middle to settle the differences.
You could elect Ron Paul, but then the term "flip flop" would be the motto for the country.
Yup. Anyone but Obama, because the choices are all so good.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Thieves...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Thieves...
it doesn't actually work.
take a look at what actually does and doesn't work in the world and you find that almost without fail, the ones that Work are the ones that actually balance all the factors properly.
tossing out one extremist ideological idiocy for another one just gets you a string of revolts and revolutions. (not all of them armed and bloody, mind you) especially if the general public does not realise how extream the original position was, (and while no one's codified it to the best of my knowledge, the USA is an extremely plutocratic bureaucracy).
also, the more economic freedom you build into a national system, the more corporate monopolies you get abusing the public. the more freedom you restrict within the system, the more ideological abuse it suffers at the hands of incompetents in government more interested in votes and power than in running things properly. i'm sure you can see the issue.
that said, if you want a more friendly-to-the-people economy, stop trying to manage it at an imperial (i'm sorry, federal) level, forget the arbitrary nonsense that is the state level: run it at the city-region level. also give up on the horribly damaging idea that is free trade, even between those city-regions. in reality, all free trade does in entrench the dominant party in a given industry and destroy the capacity for competitors to arise in other areas where there would otherwise actually be demand for such.
(that said: export subsidies are always a suicidally stupid ideal, economically speaking. sure, subsidize start-up costs for an industry you want in your area, subsidise necessary things that would otherwise be too expensive for the local market to support, but the moment you start pumping money into making stuff that is demanded elsewhere, and that your own people do not benefit from, you are overspecialising and will find yourself in a massive hole when demand drops off due to other suppliers having similar ideas or a completely different product replacing what you were making.)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I thought we were in a capatalist society
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: I thought we were in a capatalist society
the government itself cannot shrink unless the nation breaks up into component parts. it is possible to reorganise it to make it less useless, but making it smaller doesn't help.
it does need to stop protecting companies from competition, yes, but stop and consider: the natural result of capitalisms is a monopoly. every. single. time. the only available counter force to this is government regulation.
the Problem is that governments have a bad habit of supporting entrenched predatory corporations over newly created ones, thus undermining their role as a counteracting force in favour of building themselves up as a contributing force towards that inevitable monopoly.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Why are they cheaper in Canada
As an aside here in the UK we are lucky enough to have our prescription costs fixed at �7.40 per item, or �29.10 per 3 months or �104 per year for unlimited items. I think we do pay slightly higher taxes though and there are a very small number of things you can't or are hard to get on NHS prescription like Viagra etc.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Why are they cheaper in Canada
Well, there's logic to it...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Why are they cheaper in Canada
(rationality without logic has similar issues, and morality without rationality is a bomb waiting to go off, though sometimes a dud. broken morality + broken logic - rationality gets you militant religious fundamentalists conducting terrorist operations.)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Why are they cheaper in Canada
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wait for it.. Wait for it...
jobs?
Obama: "I have a speech for that.."
Debts?
Obama: "I have a speech for that, too!"
Screwing Americans on affordable drugs?
Obama: "Definitely, I have a speech for that also.."
Jeez man. We can't live on speeches alone...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
It's not just Obama; it's the entire goddamned system that needs nuking and rebuilding, with the Public (NOT Private Entities, i.e. corporations) in mind.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
(of course, starting several kilometres under ground, it's gonna take a lot of steps up to get to somewhere worth Being.)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
nice job being completely irrelevant.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The Good Old NHS
Healthcare free at the point of consumption - for all.
Oh - yes we do have a "big" government, which curiously spends LESS per capita than the US government does on health. That's weird - I always thought big government did the opposite.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: The Good Old NHS
Our health care market is just as controlled and regulated as the UKs. It is just that rather than controlled and regulated so as to provide quality care to all citizens, it is controlled and regulated to provide maximal profit from its citizens.
We have all the negatives of a state controlled market, yet none of the positives. It is an awesome system.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This really isn't that complicated
This is about money, plain and simple.
America is broke. America has been broke, very broke, nearly broke and flat broke for a very long time now. Debt is spiraling out of control and deficits, of mind-numbing proportions, continue to be run - year after year. The American Government simply can't bring in enough revenue to pay its expenses with the current taxation-based revenue stream. The ongoing political roadblock (the solving of which makes peace in the middle east look easy) guarantees that the status quo will be maintained - so no solution to the problem is forthcoming and the government is now turning to alternative sources of revenue.
Which leads to this shakedown of various businesses through settlements or fines. Not unlike the concepts of Righthaven (or various other shakedown artists many of which are featured in posts on this site) the government is going after low hanging fruit that, it hopes, will roll over and pay rather than fight.
This is about money - the government needs it, the companies have it, it can't be obtained through taxation so - lawsuits and fines all around!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Americans rely on safe, affordable drug importation
RxRights is a national coalition of individuals and organizations dedicated to promoting and protecting American consumer access to sources of safe, affordable prescription drugs. We have been encouraging Americans to send letters to Congress and President Obama urging them to protect our right to access safe, affordable medications. For more information or to voice your concern, visit www.RxRights.org.
Lee Graczyk, RxRights
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Americans rely on safe, affordable drug importation
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Hmmm... Let's see how humans are treated in FLA.
But let's get back to Google. Why are they exempt from the laws? Can anyone program their servers to do the work and escape jail?
Let's see what's happening in Florida:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/us/01drugs.html
The police are closing down pharmacies and sending both doctors and pharmacists to jail. Jail. No petty fine. No blathering on and on about how the pharmacist's conversations are some how protected by the 1st amendment.
So Google should consider itself lucky. Very lucky.
And Mike, you might want to look at which ads Google is automagically placing next to this story. I wonder if some of them aren't for a similarly sketchy operation. But hey, you can just claim that the software did it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Hmmm... Let's see how humans are treated in FLA.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Hmmm... Let's see how humans are treated in FLA.
And there's something looney about the idea that prosecuting people will lead someone to die. First, the drugs are controlled because they're dangerous. It's not a good idea to take them just because you type something into Google. Second, the US drug biz may be expensive, but it will deliver these drugs. If the drugs aren't available for legal purchase in the US, maybe the FDA has a good reason.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Hmmm... Let's see how humans are treated in FLA.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Hmmm... Let's see how humans are treated in FLA.
Your notion that because it rents ad space, google is reponsible for policing the companies that buy the ad space from them is utterly ridiculous. Give blame where it's due, not just to whoever has the money and is the easiest target. Not sure why they haven't thrown the post office in jail yet, they are a heck of a lot more involved than google is, they actually do the importing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Safe Canadian Online Pharmacies help Americans
The prescription medications that are �legitimate drugs, but are just more reasonably priced� come from licensed pharmacies, such as Jan Drugs, which are accredited through the Canadian International Pharmacy Association (CIPA).
With a 100 percent safety record, CIPA continues to be the gold standard for distance care pharmacy services because of its strict safety protocols that have been in place since the organization was founded nearly a decade ago. CIPA members are recognized as safe and legitimate by PharmacyChecker.com, Pharmacy Accreditation Services and buySAFE.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
you know...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: you know...
apparently.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What does "the administration" have to do with things?
Just how much day to day control of events such as this does "the administration" have?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: What does "the administration" have to do with things?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jandrugs is a crooked organization
That Jan Drugs is being lauded as some sort of example is ridiculous. I happen to own an american storefront that used to deal with Jan drugs as a source. I can tell you that while they may help some people get good prices, they have harmed many small businesses w=throughout the US. They literally stole customers from storefront owners who had placed faith in that company to do business fairly. Instead Jan drugs went behind the backs of hundreds of storefront owners, undercut their prices and when they finally stole the clients and the money from the storefront owners, they jacked their prices up. Jan drugs is a crooked company run by crooked people. I will never forget what you tried to do to steal my customers and my money and to ruin my business. Beware David, we have long memories, you will not be forgotten, or forgiven.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]