GEMA Strikes Again: Demands Licensing Fees For Music It Has No Rights To
from the copyfraud dept
What is it that we often hear from supporters of stricter copyright laws? Oh yeah... it's something along the lines of "no one should be able to profit off the work of someone else without the proper rights." So I'm curious if those folks will equally condemn German collection society GEMA for trying to collect licensing fees for some music that was released under a Creative Commons license and by artists who are not currently GEMA members (some left in disgust).This isn't new, of course. Two and a half years ago, we wrote about GEMA refusing to recognize Creative Commons licenses from Jamendo, and insisting that people still had to pay them. Similarly, in this case, even after it's been pointed out to them that the tracks were not under GEMA's purview, the organization insisted that the artists probably just "forgot to register the tracks," and asked the producers of the album to provide more proof that the songs weren't covered. Talk about entitlement.
![Hide This Hide this](https://ii.techdirt.com/s/t/i/topclose.png)
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Given how the law works for common people, your always assumed to be infringing when there is any chance, I think we need to apply this metric to GEMA. GEMA is claiming rights to works they do not have, it might be time to seize all GEMA operations and check every single piece of music they claim the rights to and for each nickel they have taken for works they do not represent they need to be fined $150,000 minimum. As these nickels were taken solely to profit GEMA, they did not represent those artists so had no real intention to pay them, then we should increase those fines to treble that amount.
Copyright is so important to force on everyone else, maybe if they were hoisted by their own demands and treated like common folks they might start to get a clue. I doubt they will get a clue, but I think the financial hit would make them more careful in their dealings.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The way things are going I need to keep the receipts of every CD, DVD, cable service or whatever I listen or watch or risk being accused of piracy, maybe it is just easy to never watch anything from those people because doing so it is getting risky.
Didn't they just passed a law in the US in California(I think) allowing the police to search things without a court order if they suspect piracy?
God forbid you get caught with a DVD you don't have a receipt that you will need to keep for 125 years or more.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
It is already illegal to attempt to enrich oneself by means of fraud. If the fraud includes an "or else" threat if the victim doesn't pay up, it is also coercion/extortion. Given the amounts demanded for "settlements" by copyright trolls, the matter is definitely on the felony end of the spectrum.
Any organization that exists primarily to carry out criminal activity, or which does so routinely as a matter of organizational policy is subject (at least in the U.S.) to the RICO Act. I wonder if Germany has any equivalent laws in place?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
So everyone should be able to profit off work of others /without/ right.
'"no one should be able to profit off the work of someone else without the proper rights."'
You start the week by cutting out the nuanced reasonable middle ground, Pirate Mike, even implying it doesn't exist.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: So everyone should be able to profit off work of others /without/ right.
GEMA believes in stronger copyrights and they believe in them so strongly they make them up to support their business model.
While I can read and reread Mike's opening sentence for you, I can not understand it for you.
GEMA is breaking the law they claim to hold so dear, which could be seen as them being interested in the law only when it benefits them. And when they can't legally benefit, they just pretend that they still can.
This is fraud plain and simple. GEMA screams they need more laws, but they can't be bothered to follow the law they have now.
There is no strawman here, the people in charge of minding the rights, who claim losses and demand more protection violate the letter and spirit of the law to line their own pockets. One might even call them pirates, except people who pirate content usually do not profit from it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: So everyone should be able to profit off work of others /without/ right.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: So everyone should be able to profit off work of others /without/ right.
Claiming copyrights you don't have is called "copyfraud".
And it's far more prevalent than most people think.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: So everyone should be able to profit off work of others /without/ right.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: So everyone should be able to profit off work of others /without/ right.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
"GEMA Strikes Again: Demands Licensing Fees For Music It Has No Rights To"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
and commenting on the length of posts is what he does right before he puts them in his mouth...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
Well, since no theft is actually taking place by these "freetards", you WILL have to remain silent. Because Mike can't condemn something that isn't going on. However, if Mike felt like condemning people for committing COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT, which file sharing would fall under (in accordance with the law, which I can reasonably assume you follow and approve of by your comments and thus should acknowledge the distinction made by the Supreme Court in the Dowling v United States (1985) case)I'd have no problem with that.
File sharing = Copyright Infringement (NOT THEFT/STEALING)
No matter how many times you or others says the word "stealing" or "theft", it still does not make it so. Thus, you are wrong and spreading verifiable and factually incorrect information. Quit adding fuel to the fire that is rapidly becoming the decline of intelligence in society.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
Copyright holders often use bittorrent to get their works out without straining their servers/bandwidth.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
Yes, people who downloaded it and shared it on copied it. But it wasn't illegal, because they had the permission of the owner to do so.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
Infringement isn't theft, since theft requires the removal of something from the owner's control. Unauthorized copying does nothing to the owner's own copy, nor does it necessarily follow that the infringer would have paid for the song if piracy wasn't an option. Unless the money is actually in the owner's hand, no theft has occurred there either.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
You put your work under a CC license so people can share it only to find that it doesn't? That'd be RAGE inducing all around.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Freetards Demand /Music/ They Have No Rights To
Yay GEMA!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
3 posts because you managed to get so MUCH wrong in a short piece.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
And you, as self-declared "eejit", are most worried because don't have any to spare.
See, I can do empty invective too.
I always wonder about people who choose handles with negative implications. Perhaps it's a compulsive honesty.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
By the way, now that ACTA's been signed, does that mean that GEMA's site can be seized without recourse and they get fined $100bil?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
When I choose. Right now, it's regulars who are leaving or posting less.
It's not me or those who disagree with Mike who cause them to drift away, it's that Mike's views are neither weighty nor consistent nor workable in practice. In fact, he has little except complaints and ranting. We are still waiting in his "can't compete with free" piece for exactly how he recovers "sunk (or fixed) costs".
Meanwhile, the "copyright maximalists" are moving right along. I wish they weren't, and I advocate, in brief, tax 'em out of existence. It's the only effective tool against moneyed interests.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
Congress would get rid of him for not lying enough.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
Not buying it. Don't see it, and don't see how you could ever prove such a thing. There are more regulars posting more regularly than ever from my perspective.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
I think Blue is seeing less replies to HIS comments and therefore thinks it means less regulars around. The truth is more along the lines of less replies to his comments because most are realizing that arguing with crazy is a wasted effort.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Mike, will you equally condemn freetards for taking music itself?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- I Germany, the GEMA traditionally was THE collecting agency, so the laws are such that you have to prove that music is not from a member. The case here was simply a sampler where some artists did not want to provide a real name, instead using a pseudonym. GEMA just demands real names and adresses to check up that no artist is a member, since you can be in or out, but not have only some of your work with them. So the flaw is the law, not the organization (although they deserve a slapping nonetheless IMO)
- Those who say "hey lets have a bar that plays only free music" should just think twice - it's in the owner's responsibility that way to keep track of who plays whom's songs. If some artist claims to play free music and it's the work of some other artisst, the bar owner is still the first to have to pay up. If it is not something like jamendos library, the effort a bartender would have to put in this will never be saved by not having to pay GEMA
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Why would anyone vote for a law where an artist is forced to turn over any of the rights to their work to someone they do not want to? Why are the artists not allowed to have choices? Especially considering how easy it is to get music out there to get more fans this seems like something to try and make sure that German artists and Germany are kept in the dark ages of music discovery.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
All in systems get rid of many of the problems of trying to figure out who is responsible. When you are talking about collecting what is often "micropayments" for each artist, any cost of overhead would use up that payment and make the system fail. If it costs you $1 to collect $0.25, the system would have to increate rates 5 fold to keep up. But when it costs you only a penny or two to collect the 25 cents, you have a system that is functional for all.
GEMA has ways to opt out, all that is needed is proof that the material isn't covered. How hard is that to understand? It's beyond Mike's grasp, what about you?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
And I think getting $70 a track is hardly a micropayment, the CD of free music had 5 tracks and GEMA sent a bill for $350. The artists had already signed off they were uninvolved with GEMA or any other agency like them, but that is not good enough for GEMA. One wonders how much of the $70 went to the artists... there you could be right about it being $0.25 a track.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Fuck GEMA
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Why don't "we" do something about this crap?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Why don't
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Typical Germans
[ link to this | view in chronology ]