The Lies Of NBCUniversal's Rick Cotton About SOPA/PIPA

from the how-are-those-corn-farmers,-rick? dept

Mon, Jan 16th 2012 11:01am — Mike Masnick

Chris Hayes, over on MSNBC, decided to be the first to seriously break the mainstream cable news' boycott over SOPA/PIPA with a big debate on the bill -- mainly between NBCUniversal's top lawyer, Rick Cotton, and Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian. Chris's opening discussion is quite good, and suggests he's certainly sympathetic to all of us who are vehemently opposed to the bill. You can watch it below:

Alexis does an excellent job in the brief time he's given to speak (though Cotton gets probably four times the amount of time to speak), but what I wanted to focus on, are the lies of Rick Cotton, because it's simply despicable. He flat-out lies about the bills -- and, even worse -- does so in a manner that implies that it's everyone else who's lying about the bills. He kicks it off by insisting that the bills only apply to sites that are "wholesale devoted to theft." That's simply not true. He actually uses the word "wholesale" maybe two dozen times (at least). The text of PIPA -- the key bill at this point -- says that a site is considered "dedicated to infringing activities" if it "has no significant use other than engaging in, enabling, or facilitating" infringement. That does not mean that the site is "wholesale devoted to theft." Under this definition, of course, a site like a YouTube (if it were based on a foreign domain) would be questionable, given that it has no significant use other than enabling infringement. That doesn't mean that it's always used to infringe, but it's main use absolutely enables or facilitates infringement. Cotton may want to believe the language says otherwise, but it does not.

Second, Cotton gets pretty angry about the "disinformation" around the bills, and insists that the bills "would not effect a single site in the United States." This is false. As we've explained repeatedly, while the targets of the legislation are sites with foreign domain names, the entire remedies section is about US sites -- meaning that they will have significant compliance costs, and potential liability under these laws. Furthermore, the anti-circumvention provisions of the bill are not limited to just foreign sites. Alexis pushed back on the anti-circumvention point, and Cotton claimed that Alexis was "simply wrong." But he's not. Cotton is "simply wrong" here again. Cotton claims that we should debate what's in the bill, and he should try reading the bill. In fact, Alexis has said that Cotton admitted after they were off the air that he was correct that the anti-circumvention provisions were not limited to just foreign sites. But that doesn't do any good for those who saw the segment but don't know the specifics.

Next, he claims it's totally wrong that a small amount of "legitimate activity would be threatened by this legislation." To be fair, Cotton and his buddies already got the power to take down tons of "legitimate activity" with the last copyright expansion bill they passed a few years ago, the ProIP bill. Either way, he's still wrong. Tons of legitimate content can and will be put at risk under these bills. We've already seen that companies -- including NBCUniversal -- have wrongly declared publicly that certain sites are "rogue" sites, despite the fact that they have tons of legitimate content. If you believe that Cotton and NBCUniversal will suddenly get better at finding sites that really only deal in infringement going forward, you haven't paid much attention over the last decade or so. Under existing law, we're already seeing legitimate websites taken down, and legitimate speech infringed upon. Hell, even the one prominent legal scholar who agrees with Cotton, Floyd Abrams, has admitted that protected speech would be censored under the bill.

Next, Cotton claims that the internet is "lawless" and that this whole thing is really a policy debate about how we finally put laws on the internet. This is, to put it mildly, insane. As Alexis points out in response, there are tons of laws that apply to the internet, and directly apply and are used every day to deal with infringing activity. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous. In fact, as Alexis notes, the DMCA is regularly abused by copyright holders to go way beyond what the law is supposed to allow.

Towards the end, Cotton claims that when a court in the Netherlands ordered The Pirate Bay blocked in that country, traffic to the site dropped by 80%. That's a flat out lie. I mean, ridiculously false. First off, considering that the legal fight over that has continued for years, and the court only ordered ISPs in the Netherlands to actually block The Pirate Bay... five days ago -- and gave them 10 days to comply -- I'm curious as to how he knows how much impact such a court order has had (er... will have) on traffic to The Pirate Bay. Separately, in every other place that has ordered such a block, traffic to TPB has actually gone up, not down, because the court order to block tends to give the site more attention. Just to make sure, I asked someone in the Netherlands if TPB was blocked for them, and he sent me the following screenshot showing that it's totally accessible (though, they're warning about the new ruling!). Either way, Cotton was flat out, 100%, totally lying about these "stats" from the Netherlands. No such block has occurred.

All in all, this is the same duplicity that we've been seeing from SOPA/PIPA supporters for the last few months. They attack those of us with facts on our side as spreading disinformation, but when you look at the details you realize that it is, in fact, they who are flat out "wholesale" lying. Rick Cotton should be ashamed, and NBCUniversal should admit to its errors. Chris Hayes promises to cover the topic in more detail again in the future, and he should challenge Cotton on the multiple false statements he made.

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: alexis ohanion, chris hayes, lies, msnbc, pipa, protect ip, rick cotton, sopa
Companies: nbc universal

98 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

:Lobo Santo (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:06am

Teh Script:
[interviewer] Are you aware you're lying?

[shill] My lies are the truth. How dare you question my patriotism! How long have you hated America?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:08pm
  
  Re: Teh Script:
  According to Masnick, YouTube is dedicated to infringement.
  
  Truth or Lie?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:20pm
    
    Re: Re: Teh Script:
    According to Masnick, YouTube is dedicated to infringement.
    
    I made no such claim. I said that, under the definitions in the bill, a site like YouTube could absolutely be *declared* that, even as it's obvious to anyone with brains that it's anything but.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      
      Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:28pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
      No it couldn't. You're a liar.
      
      Par for the course.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Kevin H (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 3:29pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
        [citation needed]
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Loki, 16 Jan 2012 @ 7:19pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
      Actually according to the definition of the bill, Youtube cannot be declared that:
      
      TedTalk - Youtube
      
      However, given how the content industry doesn't know how to read, and intentionally misrepresents statements to say things they do not (the recent White House statement and the MPAA response being a perfect example), they would clearly say that it does.
      
      What YouTube is, is a broadcast medium and distribution channel all rolled into one, just one from of corporate control/censorship and therefore their ability to extort/blackmail content creators to relinquish controls of their copyright
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - anon, 18 Jan 2012 @ 7:13am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
      Mike, Youtube is already subject to the "no significant use" language under existing US copyright law. It's an inversion of language from Sony-Betamax ("Indeed, it need merely be capable of substantial noninfringing uses."). You are incorrect and Cotton is correct on that one - the definitions do only capture sites that are dedicated to infringement.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 3:09pm
    
    Re: Re: Teh Script:
    YouTube does not fall under that provision, unless, of course, it has recently changed its business plan.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 8:09pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
      YouTube does not fall under that provision, unless, of course, it has recently changed its business plan.
      
      False. The site's main purpose (uploading and showing videos) clearly enables and facilitates infringement. While it is not covered under PIPA's restriction to foreign sites, the definition absolutely could (and without a doubt, would) be used against YouTube-like sites starting up elsewhere.
      
      Pretending otherwise is folly. Just look at Viacom's claims about YouTube.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 9:10pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
        I hope for your sake that you critically examine what these bills actually say, lest you find yourself in a debate with persons who (hopefully) know them backward and forward.
        
        I also hope that you do not fall prey to repeating the "they won't stop piracy" meme. That is a loser argument because the bills are not intended to "stop piracy", but to make it harder for various websites to continue pursing what they are presently doing.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:15pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
        I hope for your sake that you critically examine what these bills actually say, lest you find yourself in a debate with persons who (hopefully) know them backward and forward.
        
        I am -- as mentioned -- debating an MPAA official and a US CoC official on these bills in a few hours.
        
        I have read the bills many times over. The fact that you deny what they actually say does not change any of that.
        
        I also hope that you do not fall prey to repeating the "they won't stop piracy" meme. That is a loser argument because the bills are not intended to "stop piracy", but to make it harder for various websites to continue pursing what they are presently doing.
        
        Um. But they don't even do that. Which is the point. That you can't see. And for the life of me, I can't figure out why you're in such denial over reality. It's really scary. You seem to have total blinders to anything having to do with reality, so long as you might be able to score brownie points with the copyright maximalists.
        
        Are you looking for a new job?
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:38am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
        But they don't even do that.
        
        Pirate Mike's 'ultra stealthy piracy moves' already have that shizz figured out.
        
        I bet he has a bunch of favorite proxies he uses to hide his addiction...
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:00pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
        [citation needed]
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 9:18pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
        I almost forgot. "False" is incorrect, but to understand this you have to read and outline all of the provisions associated conduct that fall within the ambit of the proposed legislation.
        
        Could some foolish plaintiff try and use a bill like SOPA against YouTube? Of course...just look at some of the legal luminaries like counsel for Righthaven. That plaintiff would, of course, have to explain away the fact that the DMCA continues to provide safe harbor unabated. Hence, this is why I made a tongue in cheek statement that YouTube would have to proceed on an entirely new path for it to even begin to have any concern, something that it certainly has no plan to do.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:19am

Please don't Torrent over Tor
Please don't Torrent over Tor.

The Tor Blog: Bittorrent over Tor isn't a good idea

Please don't Torrent over Tor. We know we can't stop you, but please use a more suitable tool.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:26am
  
  Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
  yeah stop downloading movies on tor, you are slowing down the people looking for kiddie porn
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - The eejit (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:00pm
    
    Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
    Nah, that's what you do at night, right?
    
    Tor is also used as a tool for speech that some countries would like to make disappear off the Internet as well.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - MrWilson, 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:36pm
    
    Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
    US Supreme Court logic: If it has at least some non-infringing uses, a technology is not illegal.
    
    IP maximalist logic: If it can be used for child porn, a technology must be shut down because it is a threat to the entertainment industry.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 9:01pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
      These bills do not target "technology". They target how some people have decided to use that technology. It is people, and not technology, that is on "trial" here.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:16pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
        These bills do not target "technology". They target how some people have decided to use that technology. It is people, and not technology, that is on "trial" here.
        
        I would suggest that you read up on what an in rem process is.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:48am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
        wut?
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:39pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
        Translation:
        
        We want everybody to register with us and we will say what is ok and what is not.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:46pm
    
    Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
    There are plenty of quite legal uses for Tor. People who don't want to be tracked, or their IP associated with core political expression they've made. I've used it for such numerous times. The courts have held that included in the right to free speech is the right to speak anonymously.
    
    A few deviants may use it for illegal purposes, just as robbers can use the roads to drive a getaway car. But the vast majority of folks who use it are law-abiding.
    
    In fact, I'm using it to submit this comment right now, which is the definition of protected speech.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Chosen Reject (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:35am
  
  Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
  You don't need to torrent over Tor. The only part thepiratebay.org is involved in is giving you the .torrent file. Once you have that, it's up to you what to do with it and how. The court order to block thepiratebay.org won't stop any of the torrents or even slow them down a bit. It will only slightly impede the acquiring of .torrent files. So you can use Tor to get the .torrent file and then stop using Tor after that.
  
  Note that to my knowledge there is nothing illegal in downloading, sharing, having, or opening a .torrent file. There is nothing that is copyrighted in that file, though I am not a lawyer.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - AdamBv1 (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:38am
    
    Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
    Just wait until somebody decides that they can copyright the hash values of their content...
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Gwiz (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:45am
    
    Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
    The only part thepiratebay.org is involved in is giving you the .torrent file.
    
    You don't even really need that anymore. BTDigg.org searches the distributed hash tables (DHT) and uses magnetic links - no torrent indexs or trackers involved.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:47pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
      TPB hasn't used a tracker in a long time and their .torrent files aren't needed. You just need to click on the icon that looks like a magnet.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Gwiz (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 2:01pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
        TPB hasn't used a tracker in a long time and their .torrent files aren't needed. You just need to click on the icon that looks like a magnet.
        
        Right. I was just saying that TPB itself isn't even needed any more. BTDigg.org gathers it's info from the DHT of the swarm itself.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Rikuo (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:49am
    
    Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
    And recently, TPB has announced its going to stop offering torrent files. It's going to just give magnet links.
    So imagine if they're continued to be hounded after this. They'll be hounded for literally giving out a string of letters and numbers e.g.
    magnet:?xt=urn:sha1:YNCKHTQCWBTRNJIV4WNAE52SJUQCZO5C
    
    Saying that you can't share something like that would be a definitive attack on free speech, just like when the cryptographic key for Blu-ray DRM was cracked and everybody had the key on their website.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Ninja (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:40am
  
  Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
  No need to use TOR for torrenting. It's not being blocked in the Netherlands. They are telling the users to use TOR to access the site itself.
  
  I'm not even amused Anonymous Coward, Jan 16th, 2012 @ 11:26am as the comment is just flat out trolling. Stop using encryption to make place for the terrorists plots over the internet. Stop using the roads so they'll have less traffic so the drug dealers will transport their drugs more efficiently. [and so on...]
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Richard (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:07pm
  
  Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
  Please don't Torrent over Tor. We know we can't stop you, but please use a more suitable tool.
  
  No need = you can use Tor to access a site like TPB - but your torrent usage doesn't need to go through Tor as bit torrent itself isn't blocked.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:35pm
  
  Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
  Send only the requests for the trackers and the torrents over TOR.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- kitsune361 (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 11:49am
  
  Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
  Truth. Torrenting through Tor is a terrible idea. However, I think the whole "download Tor" bit is just so you can access the website, I doubt the operators of TPB aren't that clueless.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
gorehound (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:24am

Assaulting My Rights !!!
Simply put these Bastards of Big Content are assaulting my and your Rights with their lies and the BS they spread in order to control something they were never meant to control.
They Must Be Stopped !!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- gorehound (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:40am
  
  Re: Assaulting My Rights !!!
  I might add that I use foreign public torrent sites to share my INDIE ART.I am getting more angry as I watch this Interview.
  Cotton you are an ass !!!
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Rekrul, 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:25am

Rick Cotton should be ashamed, and NBCUniversal should admit to its errors.

Lawyers don't feel shame. They've had it surgically removed, along with their conscience.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- The eejit (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:03pm
  
  Re:
  Not all of them, to be fair: just those in IP law for the MAFIAA.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Kenneth Michaels, 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:20pm
    
    Re: Re:
    You should really blame the MAFIAA, not the lawyers representing the MAFIAA. Sometimes the two are one in the same though.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Rikuo (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:30am

I love how, even after the guy next to him points out how the GAO can't find any substance in the "Loss of jobs" claims, he continues to spout out how these sites are a threat to American jobs.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:11pm
  
  Re:
  Debunked long ago. GAO never anted up their data.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:21pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Debunked long ago. GAO never anted up their data.
    
    You got your facts mixed up. It was the MPAA who refused to ante up their data, which is why the GAO report is pretty merciless on the MPAA, despite the GAO's standard refrained language.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:31pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Wrong. Of course.
      
      http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/041310gop
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - A Guy (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 2:10pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Did you even read the story you linked to? It admits that the MPAA's numbers are made up.
        
        Troll harder 2/10
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 4:47pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Watch the video again :)
        http://msnbc.vo.llnwd.net/e1/video/flash/n_hayes_sopa_120115.flv
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 8:10pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Wrong. Of course.
        
        http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/041310gop
        
        That article appears to agree with me.
        
        Do you guys even bother to read the crap you spew?
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - The eejit (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 1:32am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        I would trust your "cite" even less than I would trust the Daily MAil or Fox News on the truth.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
A Guy (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:34am

Wow, do you think the host would have allowed the NBC executive to lie and monopolize all the time if it wasn't his boss?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- jupiterkansas (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:31pm
  
  Re:
  Personally I was happy to hear arguments from the other side, since all I can find on the internet is anti-SOPA arguments.
  
  That doesn't mean he was convincing in anyway. It felt more like whoever was yelling the loudest was lying the most.
  
  We live in a world where copyright infringement is as easy as pressing CTRL-C. The law makes pirates of everyone. It's time to relax the law.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
al, 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:47am

This just in Rick Cotton is the new senior partner of Righthaven. He has the tools to turn it around, just lie,and Ignore facts. Welcome to Rickhaven.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Nick Dynice (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:48am

Hey Mike, I'll turn this one into a video response as well.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:56am

Attention shills : This weeks word is "Wholesale".
That is all.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Rikuo (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 11:59am
  
  Re:
  Do we get a discount on troll comments if we get them "wholesale" or will we have to pay extra to get them from the end retailer?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- crade (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:05pm
  
  Re:
  I don't think wholesale means what this guy thinks it means.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:06pm
    
    Re: Re:
    My bookie would not allow me to bet against you on that.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Trollholio, 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:10pm
  
  We need to fight this wholesale free-market communism where the consumer is given an actual choice in service providers.
  
  These pirates are wholesale broad brushing us into a negative light by reading the bill and honestly telling others about it.
  
  We should thank and respect the brave industry leaders whom are willing to wholesale give up their self respect, dignity, and any claim to moral superiority by lying to the American people about this bill and its authors intentions.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Trollholio, 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:49pm
    
    Re:
    I almost forgot...
    
    wholesale, freetard, wholesale
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Idobek (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:03am
  
  Re:
  Are you suggesting they steal the use of "wholesale" from NBCUniversal?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Kevin H (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:13pm

It was a good interview, and I liked seeing both sides present for the argument. I know that time was limited, but I would have loved to see them get into why items like iTunes or Amazon Mp3 have not killed piracy, and other such details.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:15pm
  
  Re:
  Regional zoning is a decent chunk of that.
  If you offer content in one country and not in the rest of the world then you create a 'market' for piracy in the rest of the world.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Rikuo (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:38pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Amen to that. Netflix just started here in Ireland and I thought I'd give them a try. To my horror, they had only on average, 18 titles per genre (and even had the gall to list anime as a genre, when its not a genre like horror or romance).
    I watched one episode on their crappy, limited browser-based media player (1 audio track, no advanced controls like in VLC/Media Player Classic...hell, it made Windows Media Player look good) and then went straight back to my favourite copyright infringing sites.
    I know, I can expect Netflix to increase their catalogue in the future, but as of right now, the legit service doesn't meet a single one of my demands as a customer. Every single one of those demands has been met by the copyright infringing sites and they get my traffic.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 2:19pm
    
    Re: Re:
    I mean, this is pretty basic economics.
    If you want people to buy your stuff, let them.
    There is obviously a demand, why not satisfy it?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Richard (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 2:36pm
  
  Re:
  why items like iTunes or Amazon Mp3 have not killed piracy,
  
  Because they still charge Waaaayyy too much. Look at the deal offered by rumvi.com and you will see what a reasonable download price is. If mainstream western material was offered on those terms it pretty much would kill piracy.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Kevin H (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 3:28pm
  
  Re:
  Okay let me make myself a little clearer. I KNOW why they have not. What I would have liked to see is those reasons being discussed. They skirted around the issue when talking about them being underserved customers who are trying to get around the artificial walls which the content companies erect in the name of more profit.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 4:37pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Tbh...
    1. Lock them in a room with cameras
    2. Give them knives
    3. Sell popcorn
    4. Profit!
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Tor (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:14pm

Verdict in the Netherlands claims blocks are effective
"Towards the end, Cotton claims that when a court in the Netherlands ordered The Pirate Bay blocked in that country, traffic to the site dropped by 80%. That's a flat out lie. I mean, ridiculously false."

People may perhaps find it interesting that in the recent Netherlands court case BREIN claimed (see section 4.35 in the linked document) that countries blocking The Pirate Bay typically create a 92% drop in visitors from that country (citing Italy and Denmark as examples). Since the ISPs didn't object the court used this in its argument that the blocking measures were effective.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:29pm
  
  Re: Verdict in the Netherlands claims blocks are effective
  ...typically create a 92% drop in visitors from that country...
  
  Is it better to point out inadequacies in Internet GeoLocation tools? Or is it better to relax in the confidence that many minds cannot come to grips with the concept that �Network Topology is not Topography�?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Toxic Reverend, 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:16pm

SOPA and The Fountain of Evil
*SOPA was spawned and nourished by The Fountain Of Evil*
aka the trillions of dollars that the Federal Reserve gave the Banksters
*First, Turn off the Fountain of Evil*, then unclog the drains of justice and mop up the mess
*How 2 turn it off is explained in a 3 minute video by Congressman Dennis Kucinich*
http://youtu.be/oUpXDZFtEHw
H.R.2990 -- National Emergency Employment Defense Act aka *The NEED Act*
Get up to date information about this at
*Congressman Dennis Kucinich* > http://kucinich.house.gov/
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Rikuo (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:42pm
  
  Re: SOPA and The Fountain of Evil
  I fail to see how SOPA was spawned because of the trillions of dollars that went into the banks. Yes, both the banks and Hollywood have been shown to be incredibly corrupt, but they're two separate entities.
  Now instead of spouting random nonsense sentences you could TELL us what your links are all about. I'm wary of clicking on a link from someone I don't know.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Hephaestus (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:06pm
    
    Re: Re: SOPA and The Fountain of Evil
    I think that might be darryl. He makes just about as much sense.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Lord Binky, 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:24pm

You know how interesting a show would be if they would run a fact checked recap of those live debates. You could do like a pop-up video type of thing just pointing out correct facts in statements. I think it'd be interesting, but I know news networks are no place for such uninspired and uncreative dialogues containing facts (haha, nerds! wanting facts, hahahahaha).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Aaron *Head* Moss (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:49pm
  
  Re:
  Someone should create an App for that. Watch along with your Smartphone and have the actual facts pop up on your phone....
  
  hmmmmm
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- jupiterkansas (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 2:09pm
  
  Re:
  Isn't that why we have the internet? Yet another reason not to watch TV.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Rick Cotton should be disbarred & thrown in pr, 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:24pm

As an attorney, he knows better than to lie like that.
But we shouldn't be surprised.

There is a cabal of old school media men desperate to keep content under their control. They are the gatekeepers of propaganda that Cotton plays golf with. He and the other general counsels of the network & cable news stations are hand in hand with the evils of the world.

Keep exposing him & the others so their lies become meaningless.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Rick Cotton should be disbarred & thrown in pr, 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:28pm

As an attorney, he knows better than to lie like that.
But we shouldn't be surprised.

There is a cabal of old school media men desperate to keep content under their control. They are the gatekeepers of propaganda that Cotton plays golf with. He and the other general counsels of the network & cable news stations are hand in hand with the evils of the world.

Keep exposing him & the others so their lies become meaningless.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Kenneth Michaels, 16 Jan 2012 @ 12:56pm

NBC Universal Threatens more Legislation
Cotton of NBCUniversal threatens more anti-piracy legislation after SOPA and PIPA. Cotton has said: �It�s a first step. It�s not a silver bullet,� said Mr Cotton at NBCUniversal. �Piracy is never going to go away. But right now it is rampant, it is out of control.� A first step? The content industry considers SOPA/PIPA just the beginning of the censorship!!

Quote sourced from http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6162237a-402b-11e1-82f6-00144feab49a.html#ixzz1jemGzcjL
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- The eejit (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:05pm
  
  Re: NBC Universal Threatens more Legislation
  Because, for them, it is the first step. DMCA was just a lollercauster.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Hephaestus (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:08pm
  
  Re: NBC Universal Threatens more Legislation
  Yeah, they are going to push hard for the death penalty next time around.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 3:20pm
    
    Re: Re: NBC Universal Threatens more Legislation
    Tbh, i'm leaning more and more towards Creative Commons beeing the best defense against this.
    Just picture this, a false takedown notice, wich is essentially a company saying 'we own this, and you cant show it' and a followup lawsuit using all theese laws the media industry have paid for.
    Then repeat, over and over, with a strong financial backer, or even make a fund out of the 'damages' awarded to finance the continuation.
    Repeat Ad Nauseum.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- jupiterkansas (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:36pm
  
  Re: NBC Universal Threatens more Legislation
  They won't stop until all content on the internet is properly licensed and paid for. After all, they're not allowed to put anything on the internet without paying for it, so why should anyone else get to. That's their definition of a lawless internet. Nobody uploads anything without passing it through a legal team first.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 1:46pm

Was he selling something, he said Wholesale so many times I was expecting his last words to be "SOLD!"

Rick do yourself a favor and wholesale yourself into retirement so you can sit in the corner sucking your thumb waiting for your daddy to take away the internet.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 2:04pm
  
  Re:
  He already sold /himself/. I think that's what he's referring too, being a puppet of the MPAA/RIAA!
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 2:21pm

Mike, Mike the "honorable" public representative of the United States of America public was referring to the 90% drop in internet traffic caused by millions of people changing their ways.

The Dutch simply got a time out to encrypt their connections and use more censor resilient tools like darknets.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
tsavory (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 4:36pm

Happy Birthday
Hmm weird he mentioned the Happy birthday song it was created based off the good morning song written in 1896 and uses the same melody. Infringe much? Anyway the first remembered in print of the happy birthday song was in 1912 and it was not till 1935 a company (not the creators) copyrighted it. It is debatable on who really wrote it. Copyright on Happy Birthday is not up in the US till 2030 that's 95 years from the copyright and 123 years since it first appeared in print Now since it was released without notice of copyright under the Copyright Act of 1909 should the 1935 registration be not invalid? Some guy two or three times removed from the creators is making the royalties. How does this help the creator or their families?
Hmm and they wonder why people tend think this copyright system is in desperate need to be fixed.

Now on to TPB and the Netherlands umm ok he can't really say it dropped off that much but even he could support that and the traffic show that TPB recieved 80% less from there that might be because hey people decided to use proxies and vnc's and where the traffic came from or is going is hidden. TPB would have to report an 80% decrease in traffic on there end. But I guess if I was TPB I would say oh no it dropped 80% so the Netherlands would think they solved their problem and shut up.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 5:05pm

Rick Cotton the guy who can lie through his teeth and don't even blush.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 5:08pm

Not so fast Mikey
"Separately, in every other place that has ordered such a block, traffic to TPB has actually gone up, not down, because the court order to block tends to give the site more attention."

Not true. Traffic and site popularity went down in Italy after the block. Check Alexa. The added attention only lasts for a few days.

http://www.futureofcopyright.com/home/blog-post/2011/01/05/italian-isp-blocking-of-pirate-b ay-leads-to-significantly-fewer-visitors.html
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 6:19pm
  
  Re: Not so fast Mikey
  Why are you lying?
  
  http://www.p2pon.com/2012/01/13/report-filesharing-on-the-rise/
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 6:31pm
  
  Re: Not so fast Mikey
  Quote:
  In a sense, ZeroPaid is right: file sharing generally won�t be reduced by the blockade of The Pirate Bay in Italy and there are still plenty of alternatives and rerouting techniques available. Other BitTorrent sites are or have indeed become much more popular in Italy, for instance BtJunkie.org (No. 165), KickAssTorrents (No. 166), Isohunt (No. 223) and Torrentz (No. 262).
  
  Source: Future of Copyright: Italian ISP blocking of Pirate Bay leads to significantly fewer visitors
  
  Do you even read the news you posted?
  
  Quote:
  However, it was an arguably fruitless victory for the FIMI for a number of reasons.
  
  First, because of the fact that former users have simply switched to alternative torrent tracker sites like BTJunkie, which in it�s case have caused Italian visitor traffic to jump by 50%.
  
  Second, because users can use VPNs, proxies, or any of the hundred of other ways perfected over the years to evade similar censorship restrictions in totalitarian countries like China.
  
  Third, because it won�t improve the business model of the FIMI that has been so apparently weak at convincing music fans to buy their product. Trying to remove choices doesn�t make the reaming ones look anymore attractive.
  
  The game of whac-a-mole continues.
  
  Source: Zeropaid: Italian Cops Close Pirate Bay Mirror Site
  
  So there you have it, it reduced the traffic authorities can see and it increased the traffic that authorities cannot making Alexa references useless since Alexa cannot measure it either, because proxies in other countries would count as other countries traffic and not Italy's.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 6:41pm
  
  Re: Not so fast Mikey
  Oh by the way the "future of copyright" is to end.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 8:13pm
  
  Re: Not so fast Mikey
  Not true. Traffic and site popularity went down in Italy after the block. Check Alexa. The added attention only lasts for a few days.
  
  Please be clear. Traffic to TPB.org went down. Have you checked the traffic to the alternate domains they set up? Or, as others have pointed out, have you checked traffic to other sites?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Jay (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 8:48pm
  
  Re: Not so fast Mikey
  Check Alexa
  
  Why the hell are you checking one of the worst traffic rankers on the internet?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
AuntiFUD (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 5:10pm

Cotton made Ohanian look like a Devry undergrad. PWND!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 16 Jan 2012 @ 5:49pm
  
  Re:
  Without question.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - jupiterkansas (profile), 16 Jan 2012 @ 8:28pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Yes, because I believe the guy that yells the most.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- The eejit (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 1:37am
  
  Re:
  Worse, Cotton makes Glenn Beck look like a paragon of virtue.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:43pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Once I believed that nobody could go lower, I stand corrected.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Aaron Martin-Colby (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 10:52am

Master Debaters
I hate people like Cotton.

He's very skilled in the ways of direct debate. That is how people who are absolutely wrong can still win an argument.

People disagree with you? Tell them that they are wrong because you know that proving otherwise would take up more time than the debate allows.

One key point in the debate? Rapid-fire lots of other points, thus forcing the opponent to either ignore them, and appear to admit their validity, or charge off-track in an attempt to counter each individual point.

People like cotton disgust me, not because I disagree with him, but because he is intellectual corrupt.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Nathan, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:33pm

The Internet is young?
What's the definition of young? I'm pretty sure ARPAnet isn't young, which is the first rendition of the Internet as we know it today.

Guess what it was used for? Hmmm... Share information.

Christ, the mighty dollar rules the world.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
freedomFighter, 26 Jan 2012 @ 3:23pm

darn
Shit, I really don't want to pay for music or movies.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]