The Lies Of NBCUniversal's Rick Cotton About SOPA/PIPA
from the how-are-those-corn-farmers,-rick? dept
Chris Hayes, over on MSNBC, decided to be the first to seriously break the mainstream cable news' boycott over SOPA/PIPA with a big debate on the bill -- mainly between NBCUniversal's top lawyer, Rick Cotton, and Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian. Chris's opening discussion is quite good, and suggests he's certainly sympathetic to all of us who are vehemently opposed to the bill. You can watch it below:Second, Cotton gets pretty angry about the "disinformation" around the bills, and insists that the bills "would not effect a single site in the United States." This is false. As we've explained repeatedly, while the targets of the legislation are sites with foreign domain names, the entire remedies section is about US sites -- meaning that they will have significant compliance costs, and potential liability under these laws. Furthermore, the anti-circumvention provisions of the bill are not limited to just foreign sites. Alexis pushed back on the anti-circumvention point, and Cotton claimed that Alexis was "simply wrong." But he's not. Cotton is "simply wrong" here again. Cotton claims that we should debate what's in the bill, and he should try reading the bill. In fact, Alexis has said that Cotton admitted after they were off the air that he was correct that the anti-circumvention provisions were not limited to just foreign sites. But that doesn't do any good for those who saw the segment but don't know the specifics.
Next, he claims it's totally wrong that a small amount of "legitimate activity would be threatened by this legislation." To be fair, Cotton and his buddies already got the power to take down tons of "legitimate activity" with the last copyright expansion bill they passed a few years ago, the ProIP bill. Either way, he's still wrong. Tons of legitimate content can and will be put at risk under these bills. We've already seen that companies -- including NBCUniversal -- have wrongly declared publicly that certain sites are "rogue" sites, despite the fact that they have tons of legitimate content. If you believe that Cotton and NBCUniversal will suddenly get better at finding sites that really only deal in infringement going forward, you haven't paid much attention over the last decade or so. Under existing law, we're already seeing legitimate websites taken down, and legitimate speech infringed upon. Hell, even the one prominent legal scholar who agrees with Cotton, Floyd Abrams, has admitted that protected speech would be censored under the bill.
Next, Cotton claims that the internet is "lawless" and that this whole thing is really a policy debate about how we finally put laws on the internet. This is, to put it mildly, insane. As Alexis points out in response, there are tons of laws that apply to the internet, and directly apply and are used every day to deal with infringing activity. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous. In fact, as Alexis notes, the DMCA is regularly abused by copyright holders to go way beyond what the law is supposed to allow.
Towards the end, Cotton claims that when a court in the Netherlands ordered The Pirate Bay blocked in that country, traffic to the site dropped by 80%. That's a flat out lie. I mean, ridiculously false. First off, considering that the legal fight over that has continued for years, and the court only ordered ISPs in the Netherlands to actually block The Pirate Bay... five days ago -- and gave them 10 days to comply -- I'm curious as to how he knows how much impact such a court order has had (er... will have) on traffic to The Pirate Bay. Separately, in every other place that has ordered such a block, traffic to TPB has actually gone up, not down, because the court order to block tends to give the site more attention. Just to make sure, I asked someone in the Netherlands if TPB was blocked for them, and he sent me the following screenshot showing that it's totally accessible (though, they're warning about the new ruling!). Either way, Cotton was flat out, 100%, totally lying about these "stats" from the Netherlands. No such block has occurred.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: alexis ohanion, chris hayes, lies, msnbc, pipa, protect ip, rick cotton, sopa
Companies: nbc universal
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Teh Script:
[shill] My lies are the truth. How dare you question my patriotism! How long have you hated America?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Please don't Torrent over Tor
The Tor Blog: Bittorrent over Tor isn't a good idea
Please don't Torrent over Tor. We know we can't stop you, but please use a more suitable tool.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Assaulting My Rights !!!
They Must Be Stopped !!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Lawyers don't feel shame. They've had it surgically removed, along with their conscience.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
Note that to my knowledge there is nothing illegal in downloading, sharing, having, or opening a .torrent file. There is nothing that is copyrighted in that file, though I am not a lawyer.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
I'm not even amused Anonymous Coward, Jan 16th, 2012 @ 11:26am as the comment is just flat out trolling. Stop using encryption to make place for the terrorists plots over the internet. Stop using the roads so they'll have less traffic so the drug dealers will transport their drugs more efficiently. [and so on...]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Assaulting My Rights !!!
Cotton you are an ass !!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
You don't even really need that anymore. BTDigg.org searches the distributed hash tables (DHT) and uses magnetic links - no torrent indexs or trackers involved.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
So imagine if they're continued to be hounded after this. They'll be hounded for literally giving out a string of letters and numbers e.g.
magnet:?xt=urn:sha1:YNCKHTQCWBTRNJIV4WNAE52SJUQCZO5C
Saying that you can't share something like that would be a definitive attack on free speech, just like when the cryptographic key for Blu-ray DRM was cracked and everybody had the key on their website.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That is all.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
These pirates are wholesale broad brushing us into a negative light by reading the bill and honestly telling others about it.
We should thank and respect the brave industry leaders whom are willing to wholesale give up their self respect, dignity, and any claim to moral superiority by lying to the American people about this bill and its authors intentions.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Verdict in the Netherlands claims blocks are effective
People may perhaps find it interesting that in the recent Netherlands court case BREIN claimed (see section 4.35 in the linked document) that countries blocking The Pirate Bay typically create a 92% drop in visitors from that country (citing Italy and Denmark as examples). Since the ISPs didn't object the court used this in its argument that the blocking measures were effective.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
If you offer content in one country and not in the rest of the world then you create a 'market' for piracy in the rest of the world.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
SOPA and The Fountain of Evil
aka the trillions of dollars that the Federal Reserve gave the Banksters
*First, Turn off the Fountain of Evil*, then unclog the drains of justice and mop up the mess
*How 2 turn it off is explained in a 3 minute video by Congressman Dennis Kucinich*
http://youtu.be/oUpXDZFtEHw
H.R.2990 -- National Emergency Employment Defense Act aka *The NEED Act*
Get up to date information about this at
*Congressman Dennis Kucinich* > http://kucinich.house.gov/
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
As an attorney, he knows better than to lie like that.
There is a cabal of old school media men desperate to keep content under their control. They are the gatekeepers of propaganda that Cotton plays golf with. He and the other general counsels of the network & cable news stations are hand in hand with the evils of the world.
Keep exposing him & the others so their lies become meaningless.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
As an attorney, he knows better than to lie like that.
There is a cabal of old school media men desperate to keep content under their control. They are the gatekeepers of propaganda that Cotton plays golf with. He and the other general counsels of the network & cable news stations are hand in hand with the evils of the world.
Keep exposing him & the others so their lies become meaningless.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Verdict in the Netherlands claims blocks are effective
Is it better to point out inadequacies in Internet GeoLocation tools? Or is it better to relax in the confidence that many minds cannot come to grips with the concept that “Network Topology is not Topography”?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
I watched one episode on their crappy, limited browser-based media player (1 audio track, no advanced controls like in VLC/Media Player Classic...hell, it made Windows Media Player look good) and then went straight back to my favourite copyright infringing sites.
I know, I can expect Netflix to increase their catalogue in the future, but as of right now, the legit service doesn't meet a single one of my demands as a customer. Every single one of those demands has been met by the copyright infringing sites and they get my traffic.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: SOPA and The Fountain of Evil
Now instead of spouting random nonsense sentences you could TELL us what your links are all about. I'm wary of clicking on a link from someone I don't know.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
hmmmmm
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
wholesale, freetard, wholesale
[ link to this | view in thread ]
NBC Universal Threatens more Legislation
Quote sourced from http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6162237a-402b-11e1-82f6-00144feab49a.html#ixzz1jemGzcjL
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
Tor is also used as a tool for speech that some countries would like to make disappear off the Internet as well.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: NBC Universal Threatens more Legislation
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: SOPA and The Fountain of Evil
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
No need = you can use Tor to access a site like TPB - but your torrent usage doesn't need to go through Tor as bit torrent itself isn't blocked.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Teh Script:
Truth or Lie?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: NBC Universal Threatens more Legislation
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Teh Script:
I made no such claim. I said that, under the definitions in the bill, a site like YouTube could absolutely be *declared* that, even as it's obvious to anyone with brains that it's anything but.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
You got your facts mixed up. It was the MPAA who refused to ante up their data, which is why the GAO report is pretty merciless on the MPAA, despite the GAO's standard refrained language.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
Par for the course.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
That doesn't mean he was convincing in anyway. It felt more like whoever was yelling the loudest was lying the most.
We live in a world where copyright infringement is as easy as pressing CTRL-C. The law makes pirates of everyone. It's time to relax the law.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re:
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/041310gop
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: NBC Universal Threatens more Legislation
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
IP maximalist logic: If it can be used for child porn, a technology must be shut down because it is a threat to the entertainment industry.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
A few deviants may use it for illegal purposes, just as robbers can use the roads to drive a getaway car. But the vast majority of folks who use it are law-abiding.
In fact, I'm using it to submit this comment right now, which is the definition of protected speech.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rick do yourself a favor and wholesale yourself into retirement so you can sit in the corner sucking your thumb waiting for your daddy to take away the internet.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
Right. I was just saying that TPB itself isn't even needed any more. BTDigg.org gathers it's info from the DHT of the swarm itself.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Troll harder 2/10
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
If you want people to buy your stuff, let them.
There is obviously a demand, why not satisfy it?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The Dutch simply got a time out to encrypt their connections and use more censor resilient tools like darknets.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
Because they still charge Waaaayyy too much. Look at the deal offered by rumvi.com and you will see what a reasonable download price is. If mainstream western material was offered on those terms it pretty much would kill piracy.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Teh Script:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: NBC Universal Threatens more Legislation
Just picture this, a false takedown notice, wich is essentially a company saying 'we own this, and you cant show it' and a followup lawsuit using all theese laws the media industry have paid for.
Then repeat, over and over, with a strong financial backer, or even make a fund out of the 'damages' awarded to finance the continuation.
Repeat Ad Nauseum.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Happy Birthday
Hmm and they wonder why people tend think this copyright system is in desperate need to be fixed.
Now on to TPB and the Netherlands umm ok he can't really say it dropped off that much but even he could support that and the traffic show that TPB recieved 80% less from there that might be because hey people decided to use proxies and vnc's and where the traffic came from or is going is hidden. TPB would have to report an 80% decrease in traffic on there end. But I guess if I was TPB I would say oh no it dropped 80% so the Netherlands would think they solved their problem and shut up.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
1. Lock them in a room with cameras
2. Give them knives
3. Sell popcorn
4. Profit!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://msnbc.vo.llnwd.net/e1/video/flash/n_hayes_sopa_120115.flv
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Not so fast Mikey
Not true. Traffic and site popularity went down in Italy after the block. Check Alexa. The added attention only lasts for a few days.
http://www.futureofcopyright.com/home/blog-post/2011/01/05/italian-isp-blocking-of-pirate-b ay-leads-to-significantly-fewer-visitors.html
[ link to this | view in thread ]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Not so fast Mikey
http://www.p2pon.com/2012/01/13/report-filesharing-on-the-rise/
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Not so fast Mikey
Source: Future of Copyright: Italian ISP blocking of Pirate Bay leads to significantly fewer visitors
Do you even read the news you posted?
Quote:
Source: Zeropaid: Italian Cops Close Pirate Bay Mirror Site
So there you have it, it reduced the traffic authorities can see and it increased the traffic that authorities cannot making Alexa references useless since Alexa cannot measure it either, because proxies in other countries would count as other countries traffic and not Italy's.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Not so fast Mikey
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
TedTalk - Youtube
However, given how the content industry doesn't know how to read, and intentionally misrepresents statements to say things they do not (the recent White House statement and the MPAA response being a perfect example), they would clearly say that it does.
What YouTube is, is a broadcast medium and distribution channel all rolled into one, just one from of corporate control/censorship and therefore their ability to extort/blackmail content creators to relinquish controls of their copyright
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
False. The site's main purpose (uploading and showing videos) clearly enables and facilitates infringement. While it is not covered under PIPA's restriction to foreign sites, the definition absolutely could (and without a doubt, would) be used against YouTube-like sites starting up elsewhere.
Pretending otherwise is folly. Just look at Viacom's claims about YouTube.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/041310gop
That article appears to agree with me.
Do you guys even bother to read the crap you spew?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Not so fast Mikey
Please be clear. Traffic to TPB.org went down. Have you checked the traffic to the alternate domains they set up? Or, as others have pointed out, have you checked traffic to other sites?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Not so fast Mikey
Why the hell are you checking one of the worst traffic rankers on the internet?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
I also hope that you do not fall prey to repeating the "they won't stop piracy" meme. That is a loser argument because the bills are not intended to "stop piracy", but to make it harder for various websites to continue pursing what they are presently doing.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
Could some foolish plaintiff try and use a bill like SOPA against YouTube? Of course...just look at some of the legal luminaries like counsel for Righthaven. That plaintiff would, of course, have to explain away the fact that the DMCA continues to provide safe harbor unabated. Hence, this is why I made a tongue in cheek statement that YouTube would have to proceed on an entirely new path for it to even begin to have any concern, something that it certainly has no plan to do.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
I am -- as mentioned -- debating an MPAA official and a US CoC official on these bills in a few hours.
I have read the bills many times over. The fact that you deny what they actually say does not change any of that.
I also hope that you do not fall prey to repeating the "they won't stop piracy" meme. That is a loser argument because the bills are not intended to "stop piracy", but to make it harder for various websites to continue pursing what they are presently doing.
Um. But they don't even do that. Which is the point. That you can't see. And for the life of me, I can't figure out why you're in such denial over reality. It's really scary. You seem to have total blinders to anything having to do with reality, so long as you might be able to score brownie points with the copyright maximalists.
Are you looking for a new job?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
I would suggest that you read up on what an in rem process is.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
Pirate Mike's 'ultra stealthy piracy moves' already have that shizz figured out.
I bet he has a bunch of favorite proxies he uses to hide his addiction...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Master Debaters
He's very skilled in the ways of direct debate. That is how people who are absolutely wrong can still win an argument.
People disagree with you? Tell them that they are wrong because you know that proving otherwise would take up more time than the debate allows.
One key point in the debate? Rapid-fire lots of other points, thus forcing the opponent to either ignore them, and appear to admit their validity, or charge off-track in an attempt to counter each individual point.
People like cotton disgust me, not because I disagree with him, but because he is intellectual corrupt.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Please don't Torrent over Tor
We want everybody to register with us and we will say what is ok and what is not.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The Internet is young?
Guess what it was used for? Hmmm... Share information.
Christ, the mighty dollar rules the world.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Re: Re: Re: Teh Script:
[ link to this | view in thread ]
darn
[ link to this | view in thread ]