More Details Emerge On Questionable UK Seizure Of Music Blog
from the crazy-estimates dept
Yesterday we wrote about the bizarre seizure of a music blog, RnBXclusive.com, by UK law enforcement officials. Many people doubted that it was real, given the insanity of the splash page that SOCA -- the UK's Serious Organized Crime Agency -- had put up on the site. However, SOCA has since confirmed that it's real. SOCA is also claiming that this is about "fraud" rather than copyright infringement, because the site apparently had posted some pre-release music (something that happens pretty frequently). It's called a leak, not fraud. And many artists embrace them -- or (quite frequently) leak the works themselves because it builds up buzz.SOCA is also making the absolutely laughable statement that this one blog was costing the labels "approximately £15 m per year." Perhaps in some fantasy land where the IFPI/RIAA is in charge of "new math," but not anywhere in reality. Now, certainly some of these leaks may have broken the law, but at best they should be civil issues and actual harm should be proved, rather than fantasy harm. While RnBXclusive was a decently widely read blog among music blogs, Dajaz1 (who, again, knows in great detail how all this insanity works) is pointing out that if the £15m claim is accurate, then you could easily sum up all the music blogs around, and they would account for more losses than "what the recorded music industry has made total since the very first record deal was signed. Per year."
Isn't it time that law enforcement stopped relying on fantasy numbers and started living in reality? Especially when it comes to censoring blogs?
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Filed Under: blogs, fraud, pre-release, seizures, soca, takedowns, uk
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Of course not!
If they did, they might realize that they're complete and utter morons.
Oh, wait, I forget...
The average I.Q. of police officers is between 90 and 110.
Stupid enough to not ask questions, but JUST enough intelligence to follow orders.
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Re: Of course not!
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When math gets wierd
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Re: When math gets wierd
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Re: When math gets wierd
Bistromathics is the most powerful computational force known to parascience. A major step up from the Infinite Improbability Drive, Bistromathics is a way of understanding the behavior of numbers. Just as Einstein observed that space was not an absolute, but depended on the observer's movement in time, so it was realized that numbers are not absolute, but depend on the observer's movement in restaurants.
(more)
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Re: Re: When math gets wierd
Probably Douglas Adams just decided that trees were a really bad idea and went back to the ocean. Wish the RIAA did too.....
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Re: When math gets wierd
HOW MUCH FUCKING TEA MUST THE RIAA BE DRINKING??
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Bye bye lies
Hopefully this case will result in another win for linking to content and start to make SOCA think that since people are spending more on music and the labels are receiving less, clearly the money is going to the artist's, considering the increased volume of content available.
You never know they may spot that they shouldn't be supporting the middle men who have enough money to chase people in civil courts, like anyone else in the UK would have to, but rather focusing on crimes that really are serious
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remember the 'special relationship' it has with the US!
oh, and dont forget about the 'accounting' methods the entertainment industries use.
i cant believe the UK police have gotten involved again, presumably on the say-so of Sharkey and the BPI, after what happened in the 'Oink' case. gonna make plums of themselves again! trouble is, it will still get the site shut down permanently, which is the whole aim. and there should be severe consequences for those making any false claims against websites etc, regardless of what those claims are!
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http://www.soca.gov.uk/threats
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http://boingboing.net/2012/02/15/uk-govt-yes-we-kidnapped-p.html
But it's ok, there is a law that protects the spies from being held accountable for breaking the law and they are trying to use that to cover everyones ass now.
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Also, some marijuana was found...
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Pondering
We should keep in mind the site owner uploading music himself would invalid any protection he had. Only users can upload infringing music and usually get away with it.
Then I also ponder just how much lawfully supplied music was involved here? Yes an artist leaking a few songs can indeed ramp up a fan base prior to an album release. Fame counts for everything in the entertainment world where locking up your creation for few to see is contradictory.
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EU DMCA
These limitations were successfully used in the TVLinks case a few years back, but haven't worked (so far) in the O'Dwyr extradition case. Also, coming from a Directive, they're rather vague and open to interpretation.
In terms of conspiracy to defraud, I should have spotted that as a possibility straight away; it was used (unsuccessfully) in the OiNK case, and has been threatened quite a few times since. It's incredibly broad, so should be much easier to prove than copyright infringement (with all those pesky things like "prejudicial effect" and "actual loss", or even "copyright"...). Wikipedia has quite a good, if legally technical, summary of the offence.
That's also how they manage to get the ridiculous "10 years imprisonment for downloading" claim, although it's still completely unreasonable.
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Success is educating the public. The US news seems to have a black out on copyright covereage. Is it the same elsewhere?
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We've hated it for a quite a number of years thank you very much and wish those the other side of the political pond would stick to things they know about like "world series" sports that no other country plays. We suck bad enough at infringing on personal freedoms all by ourselves without "you lot" getting involved thanks.
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And don't forget about the Dutch. Last world cup was a Cuba-NL match, with NL being the victor.
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15 m per year
So that means the labels should have seen a revenue increase of �41,000 per day. So did they?
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Re: 15 m per year
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"costing" 15 million doesn't mean that it would make 15 million. You are drawing a conclusion that the facts do not support.
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If some Nazi government says some Nazi soldier has to round up all the Jews. That's their Job.
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Most pathetic example of Godwin ever.
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Your circular logic is showing.
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Your circular logic is showing.
hahahahahaha
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Gods, but lawmakers were much more forward thinking than I could ever have imagined.
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I approximate that it does'nt cost labels �15 m per year
I approximate that both approximates are approximately true or not
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Approximate = plausible deniability, when true figure is found
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Stuff like this is why you are so hard to take seriously.
First off, Law Enforcement lives in reality. The reality is that the site in question was a hub for downloading copyright material. It was the only reason for the site to exist, from what I could see. Reality, the site was breaking the law - and doing so for profit.
As for censorship, I guess I need to explain this again: in the US, speech that is part of a crime is not considered to be protected. The UK has similar laws. Basically, what was removed wasn't protected speech, so it's not censorship - it's just law enforcement doing their jobs.
If you are going to drag out the censorship carcass to flog, at least do it when it is merited, and not just every time you don't agree with law enforcement doing their jobs.
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If they were smart, they would get to higher ground and compete with pirate sites by offering customers what they want at a price they are willing to pay.
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The truth about the desperation of the pirate supporters (such as Mike) is that they are starting to try to hide behind the strongest barriers... using terms like "censorship" and "free speech!" while entirely ignoring the actual acts that are occurring. Shutting down a site that was by and large a piracy haven isn't censorship, it's just logical. If it cannot exist in the real world legally, why should it be online?
You guys (and Mike) need to come to understand that the tide has shifted. There is no longer unlimited, unchecked freedom without consequence online. The noose is being tightened, get use to it.
Oh yeah, it's not the "content industry" doing it. It's enlightened governments who realize that a large part of their economy is being subverted and destroyed by people out for a free lunch.
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I'd call you a sheep, but then i'll just realise, i dont represent the government, so why would you listen
I get it, people have no say in what gets passed as law, trully, i get it, ONLY the government has the capacity to dictate what the majority of people should feel is right or wrong, anyone who does'nt agree with them, we should slur them and automatically assume that their arguments have no merit,
Our government has spoken, thy will be done
Long live *you're version of a* free society.......
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If you should have learned anything from Dajaz1 it's that judging something on appearance doesn't mean anything.
The tide has indeed shifted, people are going to get voted out of office, citizens will take to the streets. An entire generation is waking up to the fact they need to register to vote. And quite frankly when the 18-25 age group comes out in force you and all your shills in congress are fucked. F U C K E D
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US laws are trying to censor me when they make rape illegal.
I'm expressing myself!!! Free speech!!! Where is the outrage?!?
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I'm expressing myself!!! Free speech!!! Where is YOU'RE outrage?!?
dumb ass rapist........
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What's wrong with fantasy harm?
By the way, did you know SOCA costs UK taxpayers approximately �15 billion every month?
And that's not counting all the lost jobs; they're responsible for at least 3% of the unemployment rate.
They also regularly kick puppies. Occasionally kittens.
And I have it on good authority they have a time machine, which they used to travel back in time in order to sink the Titanic, cause the Tunguska event, and start the Black Plague.
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The takedown message has been updated
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Re: The takedown message has been updated
Someone reminded them they needed to give people a day in court before calling them thieves.
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SOCA, SFO and the Right to Remain Silent
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So, I'd challenge SOCA to actually provide hard evidence, with a simple methodology that doesn't include handwavium, that actual fraud was taking place.
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This is cobblers
My guess is that someone's realised that the whole thing is total twaddle in the face of mounting criticism!
http://www.soca.gov.uk/news/401-music-website-takedown-latest
"A number of site users have deleted their download histories."
Really? And how do we know that, pray?
"SOCA's holding message to users who had been frequenting the website was taken offline at the conclusion of the first phase of the operation on 15 February."
Ha! As if it was all deliberate and part of some grand master plan. Still sounds like cattle excrement to me.
"The targeted SOCA activity, which lasted 32 hours, was part of an operational programme aimed at protecting UK businesses and the wider economy."
No - this is NOT what the SOCA is supposed to be involved with. Businesses and economy is nowt to do with them, Crime is supposed to be their brief, not protecting the national economy! Crap, I say. They've probably been pushed into it by the music industry without being fully primed on how to handle it. The original page looked like it been put together by some 12-year old misfit.
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