Only Hollywood Would Think That This 'Disc To Digital' Program Makes Sense

from the wow dept

Tue, Mar 6th 2012 11:24am — Mike Masnick

Michael Weinberg, over at Public Knowledge, has an absolutely brutal takedown of Warner Bros. new "disc-to-digital" program, which lets you bring DVDs you already own into a store, who will then "handle the digital conversion" and give you back a digital file. Of course, Public Knowledge has been petitioning the Librarian of Congress for a rather simple exception to the DMCA's anti-circumvention provision that would let people rip their DVDs to digital files. And while the text of Weinberg's writeup is worth reading, it's summarized so nicely in this graphic, that we'll just post that instead:

If you want to go through the text version of the takedown, head on over...

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: disc to digital, dmca, dvds, exemptions, ripping
Companies: warner bros.

90 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

Mike C. (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:03am

Ugh...
And what's going to piss everybody off is that behind the scense, someone is probably twisting arms at the Copyright Office to say "See? Consumers can already do this so the exception isn't needed."

/rat bastards... all of 'em
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Mike C. (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:03am
  
  Re: Ugh...
  * scenes
  
  /so angry I can't even type...
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Cowherd, 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:40am
  
  Re: Ugh...
  Of course consumers can already do this. Have been since DeCSS was invented. Just not with brand-name software, is all.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Richard (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:15pm
    
    Re: Re: Ugh...
    Just not with brand-name software, is all.
    
    Slysoft is a brand name...
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - techflaws.org (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 10:54pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Ugh...
      DVDFab is too.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Cowherd, 7 Mar 2012 @ 5:52am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Ugh...
      But from a country not subject to DMCA. It won't relieve MAFIAA of it's delusions of anti-circumvention until you can do it with Windows Media Player.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - JEDIDIAH, 10 Mar 2012 @ 2:19pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Ugh...
      Slysoft is hiding in the Carribean.
      
      Also, their solution isn't terribly n00b friendly. It certainly doesn't raise to the level of something like iTunes or Kaledescape.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 2:32pm
  
  Re: Ugh...
  That's exactly what I thought: that this wasn't any tool that was going to make any money or that anybody wanted, but rather that it was purely a ploy to support the argument that consumers didn't need to unlock their content because there was already some way to do so.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Planespotter (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:29am

OMG!.. What if the store doesn't delete the file after they've made a copy of the DVD?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- :Lobo Santo (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:30am
  
  Re: Faster Service
  Then the next person with the same movie doesn't have to wait for the ripping process, just the file copy time...?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - MrWilson, 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:35am
    
    Re: Re: Faster Service
    And then maybe they just put it online with an easily to use interface so that customers don't have to come to the store. And then they offer it for free. And they host it in a distributed network of peers that share files with other peers.
    
    OMG, they're the pirate bay in an early stage of evolution!
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - blatanville (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:08pm
    
    Re: Re: Faster Service
    excellent point: why don't they just let you load the disc into your machine at home, get a fingerprint from the disc and your computer, and deliver a digital copy with DRM whose key is based on the fingerprints?
    
    but again, this all speculation based on what COULD be done, and we still have no reason to accept that this needs to be done at all, amirite?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:27pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Faster Service
      Because then it would be as annoying as Adobe Acrobat's 'authorize/deauthorize' licensing mess.
      
      If you have the full version of Acrobat on your computer, and your hard drive crashes, you install a new one, and you attempt to put the full version back on your computer, since you didn't 'deauthorize' the license, you end up having to spend forever on the phone w/ Adobe to get it to where you can use the software again.
      
      Which is why we are no longer using Adobe Acrobat for pdf files.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Khory (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 1:44pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Faster Service
      No to the DRM! I'd like to be able to stream it from my NAS to my Boxee box. Or play it on my mobile phone. Or play it next year on whatever device I decide to buy.
      
      Over-complicating this with DRM, special shops, etc is just going to make illegal measures more appealing. Especially if there is no good reason why making a copy with my pc is illegal. I already own the disc in this scenario so why does it matter?
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - tracker1 (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 1:47pm
      
      original mp3.com
      Ask the nice guys who started mp3.com and did just that, then were sued (and lost) into oblivion.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 2:13pm
        
        Re: original mp3.com
        Myself and Karl were just discussing them the other day in I forget which article. It was that lawsuit, which was heavily stacked against mp3.com who was already being labeled as expressly contributing and allowing copyright infringement, that can be directly pointed to as the event that set cloud computing and storage behind by over a decade. We're just now catching up to where we should've been a little over a decade ago, if things had been allowed to progress naturally that is. And once again, cloud storage is being attacked, this time more directly (as was the case with Megaupload) as opposed to letigiously (as was the case with mp3.com).
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Ninja (profile), 7 Mar 2012 @ 2:51am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Faster Service
      get a fingerprint from the disc and your computer
      
      Fail. I changed the hardware of my computer 4 times in 3 years mainly by adding memory, 4 HDDs and 1 new video card. DRM is fail. And imagine if I want to transfer it to my notebook to plug the HDMI in the living room and watch it in my gigantic tv?
      
      Just make the disc DRM free and let the consumers rip it effortless. DRM is cancer and should be forbidden by law.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- blatanville (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:03pm
  
  Re:
  Wait! Does the store KEEP the Disc? Do I get that back? Does it matter because I'm going to keep duping my own discs anyway?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - DannyB (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 1:18pm
    
    Re: Re:
    They wouldn't want you loaning your disc to your friend who will then go to a store and get a digital file copy made.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:33am

So they have to ask permission of every copyright holder of every DVD before they can digitize it, right? Unless it's their own DVD? What if the DVD is imported?

They can't digitize DVDs that they don't have permission to, that's copyright infringement and that's illegal.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- John Fenderson (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:47pm
  
  Re:
  They can't digitize DVDs that they don't have permission to, that's copyright infringement and that's illegal.
  
  Strictly speaking, that's not so. In the absence of copy protection, you can legally digitize DVDs you own all day long. You just can't distribute the files seperately from the disc.
  
  So I could give my DVD to a third party, they could convert it, then give me back the DVD and all copies they made and be within the law. Or I could just do it myself at home.
  
  The tricky part is that the DMCA makes it illegal to break copy protection even if you have the legal right to make copies. That's the bit that would break the law, unless an exemption is granted.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 1:42pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Copyright sure is confusing.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - ltlw0lf (profile), 7 Mar 2012 @ 7:27am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Copyright sure is confusing.
      
      To you and me, yes.
      
      To the copyright maximalists, everything is simple. You pay the gatekeeper the taxes they are owed, and then you go on your way (with or without the product they "sold" you.)
      
      Where "sold" being "leased" when it comes time to pay the artists, since they don't have to pay the artists if they haven't sold anything. Or was it the other way around. Its all so damn confusing.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- CN, 6 Mar 2012 @ 1:55pm
  
  Breaking the lock / Left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing.
  Well, they can get permission to copy the disc, but then they still can't copy it because it is illegal to "break the lock".
  
  Also, what happens when they authorize it, and don't even realize it, and take it down!
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 6 Mar 2012 @ 6:04pm
  
  Re: They can't digitize DVDs that they don't have permission to...
  Lucky they don�t need to, then. Because guess what? DVDs are already digital!
  
  #strangebuttrue
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Tim K (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:33am

allowing consumers to convert their libraries �easily, safely and at reasonable prices.�
That seems to contradict their program. As the second part of the illustration demonstrates that is how to satisfy all of the above. Anything that requires me to do more work, is not easy, and paying for something I can already do with something I already bought cannot be reasonably price. And where does safety come in? Will I hurt myself when I rip something myself? Requiring me to leave my house and drive somewhere is definitely not as safe as sitting in my computer chair.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Beta (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:51am
  
  Re: allowing consumers to convert their libraries �easily, safely and at reasonable prices.�
  According to their opinion of the intelligence of the target audience, you're in danger of getting your head caught in the CD tray.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 1:25pm
    
    Re: Re: allowing consumers to convert their libraries �easily, safely and at reasonable prices.�
    I don't want to waste my cup holder copying movies..... I like paying more for stuff I already own, where can I sign up
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:53am
  
  Re: allowing consumers to convert their libraries �easily, safely and at reasonable prices.�
  "Will I hurt myself when I rip something myself?"
  
  That depends, are you using a really fast drive and/or poorly made media?
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_shattering
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - :Lobo Santo (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:59am
    
    Re: Re: allowing consumers to convert their libraries �easily, safely and at reasonable prices.�
    I've had that happen to me~!
    
    It was a 'Windows 95' disc, a legit one, too!
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:37pm
  
  What about the Children?
  "Mother of five dies in traffic accident on the way to get a digital copy of the latest Disney DVD"
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Rikuo (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:40am

The reason this will fail and fail hilariously is one simple thing: every time some new initiative like this is proposed, it contains, at its core, the fact that the movie studios feel an addictive NEED to maintain control over the process.
As the graphic shows, anyone can rip DVDs at home, but the studios need to maintain control over that, so managed to make doing that illegal.
Every single venture like this (DRM, Ultra-violet, DVD/Blu-ray with Digital Copy included) fail, have always failed and will always fail, because of the mentality of maintaining control. The ludicrousness of today's copyright laws (i.e. laws that attempt to control how a machine that fundamentally copies and nothing else can only copy certain things) is just the symptom of this mindset.
We have machines that can play back any image or sound we choose. All we have to do is feed the instructions into the machine. But no, we're told, that's evil and dangerous. You must only do it from this pre-approved list and must pay to receive the instructions.
This mindset will attempt to kill the Star Trek-style replicator, should it ever be invented.
Instead of machines that are being used to their fullest potential, we have laws mandating exactly how they are to be used. We have double dipping (and sometimes even more) e.g., buying a PC Blu-ray drive and Blu-ray movie disc, only to find out you also need to purchase an authorized program to play it back (this happened to me, and I wasn't expecting it, since there have been free DVD player programs for years).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:05pm
  
  Re:
  "have always failed and will always fail, because of the mentality of maintaining control."
  
  You are wrong here, they fail because the standards that allow for the disc to be played are based on the chips that can be gotten for cheap. So you can just use a more powerful computer to do it for you. Also to maintain usability across the board, newer players must use the same instruction set.
  
  They would be better off giving the customers an h264 mp4 of the movie unlocked with the audio/subtitle sub tracks. Just make sure it is just the movie portion. No need to have special features. If i want to watch those i am going to grab the disc anyway. Ripping a DVD takes a fair amount of time. Copying from a DVD to drive is a lot easier and would increase my willingness to buy a DVD instead of renting/getting it mailed to me.
  
  Also since we are using the standard mp4 format, we can fit it nicely on a standard size DVD. We can also convert it to other formats that suit individual devices easily using Handbrake. Alas this would only add the customer experience and we can not let that happen.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 3:14pm
    
    Re: Re:
    10 minutes for a 2 hour movie is a fair amount of time?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 3:33pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      indeed, it take my server atleast that long to convert something to proper format for my roku. Couple hour home videos can take upwards of an hour if it is doing other things. I would gladly trade 10 minutes for a copy that i have to do nothign with then spend the time ripping it/converting it.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 5:36pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        That is why everybody goes to the Pirate Bay.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - JEDIDIAH, 10 Mar 2012 @ 2:27pm
        
        Triple edged sword
        Most of the trouble dealing with ripping video media derives from the fact that there is DRM involved and that the industry successfully lobbied Congress to make cracking tools illegal. If you could rip stuff in iTunes, it would be a lot less of a bother. All of the transcoding and metadata management would be nicely automated.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
sehlat (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:40am

Is there something in Los Angeles water?
Hollywood executives never seem to ask the ONE question that should come up when they contemplate ideas like this:

Would I put up with this crap?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 5:28pm
  
  Re: Is there something in Los Angeles water?
  For the simple reason that they never have to, so therefor never realize how insanely annoying their actions are to people.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- That Anonymous Coward (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 8:30pm
  
  Re: Is there something in Los Angeles water?
  "I"?
  
  Don't you mean to say "my secretary" ?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 9:26pm
  
  Re: Is there something in Los Angeles water?
  And the answer always is? No, they wouldn't. Not at all, in the worst world you can imagine.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
crade (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:45am

This is what annoys me most about copyright law..
This type of thing is the only real reason our mafiaa leaders keep writing new laws to make our lives more difficult.. To get money without having to work for it. "but.. but.. piracy" is just a pathetic smoke screen of a lie that they won't even bother trying to defend properly.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Mesonoxian Eve (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:48am

#1 should be #2 because #1 is #2.

It's also a shame #3 doesn't exist anymore:
www.megaupload.com ---> Stream ---> Point and laugh at Dodd
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
isaac Kotlicky (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:49am

Consumer Friendly
If the Hope Machine works well enough, we can end world hunger!
MIKE MASNICK, DO YOU REALLY WANT TO RISK LITTLE BABIES GOING HUNGRY JUST SO YOU CAN HAVE YOUR PRECIOUS "RIGHT OF FIRST SALE?" WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!

...You monster...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:00pm
  
  Re: Consumer Friendly
  Yes let's club baby seals instead.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 5:34pm
    
    Re: Re: Consumer Friendly
    After lets go throw puppies in the river.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Lauriel (profile), 7 Mar 2012 @ 12:19am
    
    Re: Re: Consumer Friendly
    Clubbing baby seals is the only way to protect them from polar bears. Why are you against baby seals??
    
    /**AA logic.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
gorehound (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:50am

MAFIAA is so stupid !!! Most consumers must already know how to rip a DVD and if they do not their kids or the next door neighbor's kids do.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:52am

You missed the best quote from the article
"The potential audience is huge, the Warner executive said, given that about 10 billion DVDs have been sold in the U.S. and another 10 billion overseas."

I don't know about you, but 20 billion of anything seems like a lot of something. Especially when you consider that is over a 14 year period(ish). The way they spin it, they make it sounds like they never sell any DVDs at all these days.

Also no one seemed to spot the big problem here. What shops are going to do this? Electronic Stores? Doubtful, they would rather sell you an extra disc. Grocery/Convience(sp?) stores? Oh yeah because every one there is versed in technology.

This also forgets to mention the fact that a hacker could just embed the meta data the machine gives to any copy they make. Rip it your self, add a modified signature, BAM, all your DVD transcribed from a Disc to your Hard Drive.

Just ignore the fact that it is already in a digital format, and you are paying for some one else to do the copy for you.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Tim K (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:04pm
  
  Re: You missed the best quote from the article
  What shops are going to do this?
  You don't think BB will jump on this as another way to overcharge what remaining customers they have?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:06pm
    
    Re: Re: You missed the best quote from the article
    There are Block Busters near you? Nearest one to me is 60 miles and i live in a fairly densely populated area (Seattle/Tacoma)
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Tim K (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:09pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: You missed the best quote from the article
      I think their might still be one maybe, but I was actually referring to Best Buy
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:21pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: You missed the best quote from the article
        Oh yeah because i trust all the people at best buy to A) Do a job right B) Do it in a decent time and C) For a reasonable price.
        
        Also I am sure i want a company that is subsidized by Current/Former executives of Microsoft. They only thing they have going is that they are not subsidized by apple, at least to my knowledge.
        
        /sarc
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Tim K (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:27pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You missed the best quote from the article
        Lol, well while anyone who is semi-knowledgeable knows that they are a bunch of dishonest thieves who will take your pictures and other files they like, that would not stop them from adding this to there already crappy Geek Squad services, and charging ridiculous amounts. And unfortunately I'm sure there are people who would use it too.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:34pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You missed the best quote from the article
        "And unfortunately I'm sure there are people who would use it too."
        
        If you change "I'm sure" to "I know without a doubt", that statement would be more accurate.
        
        Every time I run into people who tell me oh I took my computer to Geek Squad I just inwardly groan, then explain to them (before they have a chance to tell me what was done or how much they paid) that they got ripped off and that for maybe a fifth of whatever they did get charged, I would've done the same work in less time.
        
        Then again, I actually make it a point to find out what Geek Squad charges for what services. That way I can then tell people who come to me those prices for said services and point out that I am the better choice. I'm a one man operation, but I guarantee my work no matter what. Unless you f*ck something up after the fact, no free fixes for your own mistakes/stupdity. That's my rule.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:39pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You missed the best quote from the article
        Well its 39.99 to install RAM at best buy. A new dvd with a digital copy is about 29.99. So I am guessing this will be a mere 19.99 per disc.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Doug B (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:16pm
  
  Re: You missed the best quote from the article
  This will generate a whole new concept movie shop. A place that sells DVDs/BluRays etc and the Digital conversion service together. I can see it now. You go there to buy your movie and they then offer to digitize it for you for a small fee. Perhaps they offer volume discounts - i.e. buy three movies get free digitization!
  
  Then you get to stand there and open your brand new DVD and hand it over so they can put it on the cloud for you. You actually end up walking away with no physical need for a disc, seems like a fabulous deal to me!
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - :Lobo Santo (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:23pm
    
    Re: Re: You missed the best quote from the article
    I preference to having a 'hard copy' of my movies--that way if anything happens to my media server's drives (or cloud account, in your scenario) I've not lost access to the original and can always rebuild.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - crade (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:55pm
    
    Re: Re: You missed the best quote from the article
    It honestly surprises me that cd/dvd stores haven't become automated booths at the mall with a credit card slot and a thumb drive port yet.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 2:05pm
  
  Re: You missed the best quote from the article
  cant see many people bring any of the 10 billion dvds from overseas just to pay again so they can have the same movie digitized though, can you?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Lauriel (profile), 7 Mar 2012 @ 12:23am
    
    Re: Re: You missed the best quote from the article
    Not to mention that they'd just get the hard drive seized at the airport, because a digital copy of a movie must be infringing.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jeffhole (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:54am

God damnit
This is mostly just a tax on stupid people and technologically-challenged people.

You're a real class act, WB.

Also, freemake.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
John Doe, 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:55am

Ever heard of Handbrake?
I guess this service is for people who have never heard of Handbrake. I just installed it last night and ripped a 2+ hour movie in 20 minutes. No previews, no DRM, no region encoding, nothing but the movie. Talk about a concept.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:09pm
  
  Re: Ever heard of Handbrake?
  Are you aware of some of the neat controls? Such as down mixing to stereo and having include the subtitles in the file?
  That way you can keep the original mix and not loose the audio experience you may miss other wise.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - John Doe, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:10pm
    
    Re: Re: Ever heard of Handbrake?
    No, I just got it last night and took it for a quick test spin. I have not checked into what all it can do yet.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - JEDIDIAH, 10 Mar 2012 @ 2:30pm
    
    Re: Re: Ever heard of Handbrake?
    Why bother degrading the original audio? Just keep it and use a player that actually knows what to do with it.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2012 @ 3:06pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Ever heard of Handbrake?
      Because you can maintain both sets of audio at once, and not waste extra processing power to take a 6 channel discrete and force it back to stereo.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
TDR, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:12pm

Darth Lamar: *bows* What is thy bidding, my master?
Emperor Dodd: There is a great disturbance in the world.
Darth Lamar: I have felt it.
Emperor Dodd: We have a new enemy. Digital technology.
Darth Lamar: Yes, my master.
Emperor Dodd: It could destroy us.
Darth Lamar: It's just a format. Megaupload can no longer help it.
Emperor Dodd: The people are strong with it. Our content must not escape our control.
Darth Lamar: If it could be locked down, it can be controlled.
Emperor Dodd: Yes, yes, it could be so secured. Can it be done?
Darth Lamar: Content will be ours or die, master.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
rubberpants, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:30pm

Never Satisfied
So, they give you what you want and it's still not good enough?

I guess if a convoluted, high-friction, locked-down abomination of a solution won't convince you to stop doing what you can easily do yourself at home then congratulations -- you're perfectly normal.

Carry on.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:40pm
  
  We already HAVE what we want...
  ...or haven't you been listening? We just resent being labeled criminals for having it.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Ninja (profile), 7 Mar 2012 @ 2:58am
  
  Re: Never Satisfied
  The usual troll. I'd guess the nice graphic explanation didn't load for you, right?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - PaulT (profile), 7 Mar 2012 @ 3:14am
    
    Re: Re: Never Satisfied
    Erm, read his second paragraph... the sarcasm really kicks in ;)
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:45pm

Just rip your damned DVDs yourself. I garantee you they wouldnt even come after you if they found out about it. They are too afraid of what will happen if they try to prosecute people for making backup copies or moving their content to other platforms they will never prosecute it. The ruling would come down that it is perfectly acceptable to make backup copies, and then they would be screwed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 12:49pm

(1976) VHS released to the public. Not without a battle of course Sony has gained through legislative means the power to have a monopoly on Japan using the Betamax format JVC fought back.

(1996) DVD is introduced to the market.

(2001) HD DVD/Blu-ray Disc.

But note that, those are not the only formats launched, there is a trail of failures before each new standard starts to get some traction in the market, with the exception of the Bluray which was not something decided by the market but by a coalition of companies and still didn't catch up with the DVD.

Leaving the conspiracy theories behind of why people keep putting out formats and trying to make those the dominant one, here is the thing, because there are so many formats today, if people were to fallow the law to the letter, they would need to buy on machine for each format available and have many devices to play each format, that obviously isn't going to happen people either will buy at most one or two or use one device that can play them all.

The Irony in this jungle of formats is that it motivated people to find a common solution that could attend to that need, people found a universal player and that is a computer and with smartphones becoming ubiquitous and Raspberry PI costing only $35 one can see what is happening.

People are no longer limited by one device they can have it all in one, what most people doesn't know is that there is no difference between hardware and software aside that one is implemented physically and the other is in code, it took decades for people to realize what computer and engineers already knew. You can build your on VCR or DVD or Bluray or whatever device you want in software, there is no going back to physical stores anymore that need was killed off by the very industry that wanted to capitalize on new formats and slashed the release cycle to do so.

Explain to people why they should pay for a Bluray player when they can just dump the data and play it with a $35 dollar costing device?

That is why digital files are so popular that is why nobody is going back to single user devices.

Now there is a catch, every time you encode something it loses quality do it enough times and it will be as bad as a damaged VHS tape, but people don't realize that formats fade away and could be unreadable in a few years so they don't have a need today to find a lossless video format, for music that already happened FLAC will encode the sounds losslessly and everybody can just use "select a folder for conversion" and it will do it for you in minutes because music take so much less space.

Another problem is how do you store that data safely, if it is all in one HDD if it breaks you lose everything, but if you use something like a Drobo it becomes less but it is expensive, so there is RAID + Virtual Filesystems that can do something similar but they are still complicated and buying 2 drives to make a backup copy seems expensive, so what people do? They rely on others to have the same things and trade between them since 80% of the people are in the low wage section of the societal pyramid one can be sure that this behavior is wide spread because it saves financial resources, but some have noticed that those people can pay for it and capture a lot of pennies from a lot of people and more importantly in a way that encourages reoccurring expending by using ultra low prices and supplementing that income with ad revenue, that is exactly what the entertainment industry and artists in general will never understand but will be forced to accept sometime in the future no matter how much they complain, is not about one or two songs, is about setting the price at $0.001 so the people can enjoy more media then never before, spend money without noticing how much they spend and don't getting afraid of "bill shock" kind of things and becoming comfortable in using a cloud storage to backup their own collections, which already can be done on the cheap with things like GmailFS which is a virtual filesystem that uses Gmail accounts to store data. You can do that to any webmail service out there is like writing an email manager (aka: Outlook, Thunderbid, Evolution, etc), but instead of sending mail you are sending encrypted chunks of data that are parts of your filesystem. So there is window here a very brief one, if the entertainment industry doesn't start offering those things quickly people will figure it out how to do it on their own and inertia will work against them again just like it is working against them with the "piracy" fantasy they created which is the market telling them you forgot about a large segment of the population and let them on their own and they found a way now they teach other how it is done and they are not going to comeback to do it in a more difficult way just because you want them too, that ain't happening.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 1:49pm

I've got a question: After the "conversion", where does the file go? Do you need to bring a thumb drive or something? Do they rip the files from a DVD, put them on a second DVD, and then give you two identical DVDs? Do they e-mail you a torrent file?
Does warner Bros. think that "computer files" are physical objects that people can put into a grocery bag and carry home? Is that why they think people can steal them?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 2:19pm

and explain to me yet again, please,

1) why the hell anyone would want to get a movie digitized when they already have it on disk?

2)why the hell should anyone have to PAY AGAIN to have a movie they already own digitized?

3)why should anyone be charged/have to pay for a second copy of their bought movie, simply because it's in a different format (a format that would have been bought originally, instead of a disc, had it been available!)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2012 @ 6:02pm
  
  Re:
  Yes, they want you to pay them that a feature they removed from your original purchase. They also expect you to be happy and excited by this.
  
  These people get laws written for them....
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- PaulT (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 9:20pm
  
  Re:
  "1) why the hell anyone would want to get a movie digitized when they already have it on disk?"
  
  To play on portable devices and/or media centres in the same way as people digitise their CDs to listen to on iPods. It's much easier to store a few hundred movies on XBMC than on a shelf, and people with kids don't have to risk potentially expensive damage when their kid wants to watch The Lion King for the 500th time. Nobody with an iPad wants to carry around a portable DVD player just so they can watch a movie... and so on...
  
  "2)why the hell should anyone have to PAY AGAIN to have a movie they already own digitized?"
  
  Because the RIAA is concerned that they might be losing money on DVD sales and so wish to bleed as much as they can from the customers they still have before they have to actually innovate.
  
  "3)why should anyone be charged/have to pay for a second copy of their bought movie, simply because it's in a different format (a format that would have been bought originally, instead of a disc, had it been available!)"
  
  Again, because the RIAA want you to. Like the music industry, the movie industry managed to get comfortable for a few decades by selling the same thing over and over every time a new format came out, even double- and triple-dipping on the same format. They just want to keep doing that over and over.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - techflaws.org (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:11pm
    
    Re: Re:
    MPAA.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - PaulT (profile), 7 Mar 2012 @ 3:20am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Sigh... good point... In my defence, it was about 6am here when I wrote that.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - techflaws.org (profile), 7 Mar 2012 @ 8:52am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Actually, they are completely interchangable so you might as well use one or the other and still be right ;)
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - JEDIDIAH, 10 Mar 2012 @ 2:33pm
    
    Right argument, wrong product.
    > It's much easier to store a few hundred movies
    > on XBMC than on a shelf, and people with kids
    > don't have to risk potentially expensive damage
    > when their kid wants to watch
    
    You can bet that this WB scheme won't allow for that.
    
    Yours is a great argument for Handbrake though.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Baldaur Regis (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 2:22pm

If you follow the links back to the original announcement, your digital copy will go into some sort of (unspecified) "cloud storage". I would be really excited about this radical idea, if it was 10 years ago, I didn't already have everything I own ripped, and if I was a clueless tool.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Baldaur Regis (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 2:35pm
  
  Addendum
  Can't wait for the pols to hear about this - just think about all the jobs this would create! Imagine, thousands of neck-bearded filthy pirates crawling out of their mom's basements, blinking in the sunlight of legitimate work, getting paid....to rip DVDs.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Chris Rhodes (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 2:57pm

Close
Second option still has way too many steps. Here's an easier one:

1. Download film from torrent site in a minute and a half.
2. That's it. There is no Step 2.

But I'm sure Warner Bros is going to be real successful with their new program.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- PaulT (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 9:24pm
  
  Re: Close
  No, but it's immoral to download a copy of a movie you already own instead of *paying* someone to do it for you because... erm.... something? I'm sure a troll can tell us at some point.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Apollis (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 3:03pm

This is what I think will happen. You'll go to the WB store (think Disney store, but the only place where you can get WB movies when they release, a whopping 180 days before all the other stores get them to sell, and 2 years before you can rent from Redbox). The "Authorized" WB clerk will take your DVD and scan the barcode on his computer. You play the clerk and he disappears into the Digital Magic Room to "convert" and "upload" your movie to the cloud. A few minutes later he comes back, all flushed and excited, because, it worked and it was safe! He then proceeds to hand you your DVD and a slip of paper with your 25 key code and instructions on how to access your new "digtial" version of your movie. Now you go home and follow the directions and guess what! You log into Ultraviolet and enter your code. You, you guessed it. Another ploy to get us to use Ultraviolet.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
BeeAitch (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 8:13pm

Is there any reason to believe that they won't insert some evil DRM in the process (hello Sony rootkit!)?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
techflaws.org (profile), 6 Mar 2012 @ 11:12pm

Where's the insane troll shills that excuse this idea with being necessary because of all the dirty pirates out there?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
crazylilting (profile), 7 Mar 2012 @ 12:23am

I thought their stance on this was that reformatting a disk is the first step in piracy? So now they want to be responsible for piracy?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]