Indian Court Orders 104 Sites Censored Based On The Say So Of The Indian Music Industry

from the censorship-by-any-other-name dept

Mon, Mar 19th 2012 9:32am — Mike Masnick

Torrentfreak notes the interesting timing on this one. Just as MPAA boss Chris Dodd was in India talking up the importance of stricter copyright laws (like SOPA), an Indian court ordered a SOPA-like block of 104 sites that were declared as "dedicated to infringement" by the Indian Music Industry (IMI). What's interesting is that as you look down the list of blocked sites, they include many that appear to focus on movies, not music -- so it's not clear why IMI gets to decide what's infringing and what's not.

Reading some of the details, it's pretty clear that the sites in question were not given a chance to present their side in court. In fact, it appears that even the IMI bosses admit that they haven't yet proved that all of those sites are infringing:

Taking the sites to court is not humanly feasible: when we went after one site, we got the impression that the owner was in the US, based out of the Bahamas, and it was very difficult to get him to respond. Our person has to pose as an advertiser before the owner came on an email, and we eventually found that it was a young kid in Rajkot, and the entire process took six months. Going after 104 sites – can you imagine the effort, the time and the money spent in chasing this? The better route is to establish comprehensively that each ofthese 104 sites is pirating content, and we’re doing that – as a body and not a company – and it’s easier to interact with the ISP now.

In other words, shoot first, deal with the fallout of incorrect censorship later.

Not surprisingly, the head of the IFPI (the international RIAA) cheered on this result:

“This decision is a victory for the rule of law online and a blow to those illegal businesses that want to build revenues by violating the rights of others,” said IFPI CEO Frances Moore in a statement.

But in a clear signal that for the music and movie industries even the toughest of anti-piracy measures are never enough, Moore says that current developments are a good start.

“The court ruled that blocking is a proportionate and effective way to tackle website piracy,” Moore noted, adding that the Indian government should now “build on this progress” by advancing further legislation to tackle digital piracy.

The situation here seems extreme and disproportionate. Not only have the serious problems with DNS and IP blocking been described concerning internet security, but it's pretty clear that efforts like this don't work. There are already reports of sites from the list reappearing under different domain names, and all the court order is doing is spreading the game of whac-a-mole. Amusingly, the same Indian music exec who made the claim above about how it's impossible to actually track down these sites, later (in the same interview) admits he doesn't want to shut down these sites, because they have a "passion for music" and he'd like to work out deals with them. Of course, getting a court order to block access to their existing sites is a funny way to say "hey, I'd like to work with you."

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Filed Under: accusations, censorship, copyright, dns blocking, due process, india, ip blocking, sopa
Companies: imi

64 Comments

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Skeptical Cynic (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 8:48am

The content industry wants no law but those that are stop first prove later.
The content industry has show time and time again that all they care about it forcing us to pay as much as they want. They are as close to true communism as any government has ever been. Control what we information get by what method we get that information and then also pay to get that information via a "tax".
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:40am

Re: The content industry wants no law but those that are stop first prove later.
I agree with your entire statement save for the misuse of the word "communism". The word I believe you were looking for there is fiefdom, vassalage, or perhaps 'screwedtopia'
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Dark Helmet (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:44am

Re: Re: The content industry wants no law but those that are stop first prove later.
You can't use Screwedtopia, as I've already designated my bedroom as having that name....
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:45am

"businesses that want to build revenues by violating the rights of others"

You mean like putting out compilation cd's and not paying the artists?
You mean by demanding the right to see what everyone has to make sure you've gotten your money each time?

Considering the Indian Government has recently decided to tax Angel Investor capital at 30%, its sorta clear they are divorced from reality.
http://slashdot.org/story/12/03/18/2043236/indian-government-to-tax-angel-funding

Why is it India can stand up to make life saving drugs in the face of tons of pressure but are blind that the "entertainment" industry is doing the same thing?
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sehlat (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:45am

How to Negotiate a Deal on a Friendly Basis
(at least, according to Big Content)

1. Raze the target to the ground.

2. Sow radioactive salt on the ruins.

3. Negotiate.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:46am

this is happening in just about every country you can think of, except the likes of China and Iran. why would India be any different? i just hope that the World's governments are happy now that the greatest communication platform on the planet is in the control of, of all things, the fucking entertainment industries! i know it's the most essential of all services that no one and nowhere can do without but..........
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:49am

It's pretty much on par with Indian courts choosing to ignore patents on certain medicines. They are all over the road.

As a side note, would you be denying that these sites are in fact pirate sites?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:52am

An innocent man charged with murder was incorrectly put in jail.

Ergo, no one should be charged with murder and all laws against murder should be thrown away.

Gotcha.
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Richard (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:53am

Re:
I'd be pretty certain that at least some of them are not.
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blakey, 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:54am

Re:
at a guess they merely linked to pages that link to files, legal and otherwise, like say Bing, and its difficult to say what with them being down and all, so i cant, and neither can you, say for certain.
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dr evil, 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:55am

what if
what if the sites were ALSO shilling inexpensive lifesaving drugs? would shutting them down be a conflict of interest?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:56am

"In other words, shoot first, deal with the fallout of incorrect censorship later."

What fallout? I can't hear you censored sites complaining about being censored, which means there is no fallout!

And who cares if the reason I can't hear them complaining is because I censored them so I can no longer visit their websites/blogs?
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Watchit (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:57am

Re:
1 man is suspected of murder ergo throw him and 5 others in jail.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 9:59am

As much as as desoise Bollywood NOW I am torrenting the shit out out of it just because of spite
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Watchit (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:00am

Re: Re:
notice my use of "suspected" here
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:00am

Re:
Wow your a fucking moron.

Imaginary Property compared to murder - Nice try.

Its to hard for us to manage our government granted monopolies, make other people pay to do it.

If an innocent man is put into jail incorrectly for murder, that means the law was wrong and need to be addressed. Maybe the standards used to reach the decision were bad. Like assuming every site on a list is pirating music, without actually having to prove it.

But I guess thats why the **AA's are so stupid, they think like you do. Black and White and no depth.
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TtfnJohn (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:00am

Re: Re: Re: The content industry wants no law but those that are stop first prove later.
Can I tell the *AAs they can move into your bedroom any day now? :-)
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:01am

Re: The content industry wants no law but those that are stop first prove later.
"They are as close to true communism as any government has ever been."

Actually, it's the ultimate form of capitalism, when business gets government to do it's bidding!
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Rikuo (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:02am

Re:
One of them is lovepaki.com From the sound of that, its a porn site, possibly dedicated to Middle Eastern pornography. I can't actually know for certain unless I do some work and check the damn site. Ya know, what you should do before declaring that someone is a criminal and must have their website blocked.

"we eventually found that it was a young kid in Rajkot, and the entire process took six months."
That one sentence has so much information about how these guys think, that I'm gonna give them an award for Most Efficient Use of Language.

1) They're spending massive resources to shut down websites run by KIDS.
2) They are wasting a lot of time running after KIDS.
3) They consider KIDS to be the enemy, instead of potential customers. So, does this mean, they focus entirely on selling music to a generation that is getting older and older, and won't bother AT ALL selling to kids?
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silverscarcat (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:02am

Re:
How many times must I sing that song?

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrooooong! Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrooooong! You're wrong! You're wrong! You're wrooooooooooong!

"An innocent man charged with murder was incorrectly put in jail.

Ergo, no one should be charged with murder and all laws against murder should be thrown away."

You *DO* realize, and, this might be a stretch, considering that it's you, but the policy of "Innocent until proven guilty" has a secondary point to it? That it's better to let 50 guilty men go free than put even ONE innocent man (or woman or child) behind bars, right?
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Richard (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:03am

Re:
An innocent man charged with murder was incorrectly put in jail.

Ergo, no one should be charged with murder and all laws against murder should be thrown away.

No - Ergo the processes which caused this to happen should be reviewed and the law adjusted to ensure that the chances of it happening again are reduced.

And since the case we are actually discussing here concerns not the law of murder but rather a law of questionable morality and even more questionable efficacy then abolishing it might well be a reasonable response.
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DannyB (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:03am

�This decision is a victory for the rule of law . . .
So the rule of law is to deny due process.

Ignore collateral damage.

Not have to prove anything.

Business as usual.

Oh, but for some reason, they need SOPA in order to do, um, what they are already doing.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:03am

Re:
An innocent man charged with murder was incorrectly put in jail.
Ergo, no one should be charged with murder and all laws against murder should be thrown away.
Gotcha.

104 innocent men were charged with murder and incorrectly put in jail.
Gotcha, boy.
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Watchit (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:03am

Re:
I think you meant "As much as I despise" right? :)
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Keii (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:04am

Re:
As opposed to jail everyone as murderers because they look like they could murder someone and then deny them due process?
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silverscarcat (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:04am

Re:
All censorship, regardless of reason, is tantamount to an attack on the freedoms that humans enjoy.
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Howard the Duck, 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:05am

Re: Re: The content industry wants no law but those that are stop first prove later.
Crony capitalism, yo
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Richard (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:06am

Re: Re:
But I guess thats why the **AA's are so stupid, they think like you do. Black and White and no depth.

I think the MPAA would disagree with that last point - they would point out that they've had colour films for quite a while now and have even managed 3D in recent years - that B/W silent film in 2D that won the Oscar was just an aberration!
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Watchit (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:06am

Re: Re:
Because kids dont got money! duh!
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:10am

Re: Re:
We all know the IP to murder comparison doesn't wash.

The fines & jail-time for imaginary property theft are WAY higher than those involved in murder.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:16am

Re: Re: The content industry wants no law but those that are stop first prove later.
Please don't misuse my name like that! All I want is a free market where value sets the price, not a government-granted monopoly on information.
--Capitalism

Please don't misuse my name like that! Opressing the rights of the workers for the sake of the rich in charge of big corporations, and corrupt politicians? That's absurd.
--Communism

Controlling the actions of people for the sake of the privileged few in charge? Yeah, sounds about right!
--Fascism
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Watchit (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:16am

Re: Re:
"That it's better to let 50 guilty men go free than put even ONE innocent man (or woman or child) behind bars, right?"

hmmm debatable, but I agree the AC's analogy doesn't hold. considering what really matters here is that the sites were censored without due process, irregardless of their innocence/non-innocence.
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Howard the Duck, 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:18am

Re:
An innocent man is thrown in jail on suspicion of murder, the victim is still alive and well. Copies anyone?
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TtfnJohn (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:21am

It's curious that Bollywood wasn't part of this just the Indian music/recording industry.

I do wonder when people (the industries) and the courts/legislators will ever learn that people in India who do download/share/pirate/steal music will just route around this.

It's nuts.
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techflaws.org (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:25am

Re:
Gotcha.

Or not.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:30am

�The court ruled that blocking is a proportionate and effective way to tackle website piracy,�
I suppose, then, that Phil Spector is proof that all music industry executives are murderers.
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Chosen Reject (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:32am

Re: Re:
You're on the right path, but you didn't go far enough to really use his analogy against him.

Start with this: It took six months to convict a murderer, so we locked up all suspects with no further evidence.

But that's not complete either, since they didn't really lock up the suspected pirates. All they did was shutdown their speech and make life difficult.

So it's more like: It took six months to convict a murderer, so we confiscated the phone numbers of the remaining suspects with no further action.

So not only are they pissing on due process, they're also not doing anything to stop further law breaking. If they went with real due process they'd get the evil lawbreakers to stop. Instead they violate due process, make the suspects life difficult, but do nothing to stop the activity they view as bad. They're being both ineffective and pissing people off while doing it. If instead they went with due process, they'd both not make people angry and put a stop to the activities they don't like.
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PlagueSD (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:35am

Re: Re:
Think of the children!! oh, wait...
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Adrian Lopez, 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:38am

"Taking the sites to court is not humanly feasible."

Why let such a nuisance as the due process of law get in the way of shutting down websites... or businesses... or of putting people in prison? Such rules are only there to protect the guilty anyway, so why not do away with them altogether?
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RD, 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:39am

Re: Re: Re:
"The fines & jail-time for imaginary property theft are WAY higher than those involved in murder."

its needs to be said often and LOUDLY:

The man who copied Michael Jackson's songs got more fines and jail time than the man who ACTUALLY KILLED Michael Jackson.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 11:00am

Re: Re:
"Imaginary Property compared to murder - Nice try."

All property is imaginary. You can only own it because of legal constructs. Otherwise, anyone could take your "property" without risk.

The only thing that is artificial here is your understanding of property.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 11:00am

SSDC
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 11:14am

Re: Re: Re:
I'll have to remember the next time I'm hiking and come across an animal marking their territory by scent that all property is really imaginary so they're wasting their time.

Property is a concept that exists in nature well outside of human legal constructs. The only difference really is that societies have evolved to the point where the government defends property in addition to the property owner defending property.

Conversely there is no natural conception of copyrights or any other so-called intellectual property right.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 11:20am

Re: �The court ruled that blocking is a proportionate and effective way to tackle website piracy,�
Approximately the same sample size, you see.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 11:21am

Re: Re: Re:
Oh you certainly told him. Because as we all know, committing murder and copying digital music files are exactly alike and comparable. /s

The only thing here which could be seen as artificial is your apparently LACK of understanding and/or intelligence in general.

Conflating murder and copyright infringement. I guess the "child pornography" approach wasn't sufficient so you're changing things a bit to see just what people are willing to allow you to get away with.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 11:50am

Re: Re:
He tryin' to be off da hizzie yo
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 11:59am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
So you are saying the **AAs are just pissing on everything and claiming it theirs?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 12:31pm

Re: Re: Re:
Sad and Scary buttons needed.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 12:51pm

Re: Re:
than put even ONE innocent man (or woman or child) behind bars, right?

Or dead printer's grandma
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Watchit (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 1:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
agreed
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Watchit (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 1:56pm

Re:
COLA
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 2:04pm

Re: Re:
really? which ones?
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Richard (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 2:23pm

Re: Re: Re:
All property is imaginary. You can only own it because of legal constructs.

Not true. Physical possession is the basis of property rights in physical objects. The law came later - and defers to physical possession in more cases - ever heard the expression "Possession is nine points of the law"?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 2:26pm

�This decision is a victory for the rule of law online and a blow to those illegal businesses that want to build revenues by violating the rights of others,�

Propaganda alert,

Mind the propaganda,

nothing to see here folks

Except for propaganda

I'm a terrorist
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 2:38pm

Wait...
India has a music industry?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That One Guy (profile), 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sorta, though they seem to have confused 'pissing on things' with 'pissing off people', and consider the second to count as the first as far as 'marking territory'.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2012 @ 10:39pm

Re:
A guilty murderer was not put in jail.

Ergo, everyone should be charged with murder and put into jail, just in case.

Gotcha.
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Skyblaze, 20 Mar 2012 @ 2:28am

Waahhh
Is it me, or did IMI's response to this sound a lot like this:

'But actually doing investigation and fact-checking is *hard*. Can't we just have them all shot? Would be much easier... No? Oh, well, take down their sites then.
We'll sit here on our mountain of gold and laugh at the little people as they scurry around trying to save their thieving websites.'
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Niall (profile), 20 Mar 2012 @ 6:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The content industry wants no law but those that are stop first prove later.
Then he really *will* be surrounded by AAsholes...
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Niall (profile), 20 Mar 2012 @ 9:21am

Re: Re: Re: The content industry wants no law but those that are stop first prove later.
I think you will find that your definition of Fascism also fits a lot of Stalinist/Maoist/Jungist 'communist' settings as well - but given that it's corporate domination by the rich, Fascism works best here. Just the fascists don't have a monopoly on 1% domination tactics...
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Niall (profile), 20 Mar 2012 @ 9:22am

Re: How to Negotiate a Deal on a Friendly Basis
Why not just save time and nuke the site from orbit? It's the only way to be sure...
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Mar 2012 @ 9:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
It really needs to be said - the public should have a mass abuse of copyright day - blatantly and publically break so many copyright rules that the MAFIAA can't do anything about it.
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Niall (profile), 20 Mar 2012 @ 9:27am

Re: Re:
Unless you worship the Elephant god...
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Niall (profile), 20 Mar 2012 @ 9:31am

Re: Re:
Scarily enough, that's just happened in Europe. Although the 'alive and well' is a bit of a stretch...

BBC News - Briton Graham Mitchell faces Portugal extradition
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