Wikileaks Truck Owner Arrested For Photographing Police; Told It Was Because He Was 'A Dick'
from the that's-not-how-this-works dept
There's a guy in NY, Clark Stoekley, who apparently owns a white panel van that he's painted with the Wikileaks logo to raise awareness of the plight of Bradley Manning (though he has no other connection to Manning or Wikileaks). There's a lot more info on the truck on his website. However, it appears that, unrelated to the truck, Stoekley has another issue to deal with: he was arrested for photographing police at Penn Station in Manhattan. He saw police in the station carrying semi-automatic weapons (an unfortunately common site in Penn Station), and he decided to photograph them with his phone. And from there, a familiar, if unfortunate, and almost certainly illegal incident ensued. As told by Pixiq:Metropolitan Transit Authority police arrested a man for photographing them at Penn Station in New York City this afternoon – deleting his photo – before releasing him from a jail cell an hour later.Of course, we've written tons of stories about police arresting the members of public for photographing or filming them while on duty. The MTA and New York may want to pay close attention to what happened up in Boston, where Simon Glik prevailed against the city of Boston and the Boston Police Department for violating his First and Fourth Amendment rights under very similar circumstances (though I don't even think they deleted the photos). In the end, the city of Boston had to pay Glik a large sum of money for violating his rights.
Clark Stoeckley was issued a summons charging him with “engaging in threatening behavior.”
“I was walking through Penn Station and I came across these MTA cops with semi-automatic weapons,” he said in a phone interview with Photography is Not a Crime.
“I stopped to take a photo and the cop came up to me and arrested me. I asked, ‘why am I being arrested?’
“’Because you’re a dick,’” the officer responded.
At what point will police finally learn that when they're in public, being photographed or video taped is fair game?
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Filed Under: bradley manning, new york, penn station, police, wikileaks
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Backwards Queries...
When will the public learn that regardless of their alleged rights and the so-called "legality" of photographing police officers, this sort of behavior will not be tolerated?
Questioning authority in any way is simply not allowed.
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Updated version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ59yboiIK4
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So, if I understand you well (which, sadly, I do)...
1. Constitutional rights are worthless.
2. Arbitrary actions , violence and violation of citizon's constitutional rights are allowed and always justified from police forces
3. Order and Police forces are the only and central powers in your country.
Well played... Adolf?
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Think about it; there's been cops in NY for like 200(?) years! And most police departments are a tad underfunded...
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I wish that Firearms 101 was a part of every journalist's basic education.
Semi-automatic weapons are simply weapons that load the next round without any action from the user when a round is fired. In other words, a pump-action shotgun is not semiauto, because you have to rack the slide after firing to load the next round. A lever-action rifle is not semiauto because you have to work the lever. A bolt-action rifle is not semiauto... etc...
Every. Single. Pistol. That you see a police officer carrying in the US is semiauto. Every. Single. Police. Officer. That you see in the US is carrying a semiauto weapon in their belt holster.
Now, I realize that you are just parroting what the original source said, but that's no excuse. If he said they were carrying knives and it was obvious they actually had guns, you would probably point out that he was mistaken. If he said they were from SFPD but they were really State Patrol, you might point that out.
Why does this matter? Because misconceptions about guns factor into what laws get passed. Want to pass a law restricting the possession of semiautomatic firearms? Hell yes! It's got the word "auto" in it. That must be bad, right? Wrong. Automatic weapons, which fire multiple rounds with a single pull of the trigger, are a whole different beast, legally, and functionally, from semiauto ones, which are the bread and butter of all modern firearms. This is exactly like when people confuse trademark, patent, and copyright law, and people like Mike speak out vehemently to clarify the confusion, because it matters when confused people try to mis-apply the law, or, worse yet, pass new laws based on mis-understanding of the facts.
Please update the article with a correct. Thank you.
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Second, they were "Metropolitan Transportation Authority". Are these really "police officers", like the NYPD, or are they more like security personnel, ala mall cops? Because a mall cop who is packing heat would bother me, semi-auto or not.
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It seems to me like whether the police were carrying semi-automatics or revolvers is irrelevant to the guy being arrested for snapping a photo because he was "being a dick", so to speak. If they had been carrying M-16s, M-14s, AR-15s, MP5s, or something of that nature... Then maybe the firearms references would be more interesting (and possibly relevant). As it stands, is there any reason we SHOULDN'T expect police to be carrying a semi-automatic firearm?
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Stop the madness of Semi vs. Auto.
If they were outfitted with slingshots instead, I could reasonable assume that someone would want to photo that.
Please get back on topic of why he should have been arrested?
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> these really "police officers", like the NYPD
Yes, the MTA are fully-sworn police officers. They were created to deal with the unique jurisdictional issues in the New York Metropolitan area, because no one department could have full authority, due to all the different cities (and states-- MTA has jurisdiction in New Jersey, also) that the transit system covers.
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Pistols that feed from the handgrip, feed and re-cock after a shot are generally called automatics (like police issue Glocks). The same action in a shotgun or rifle is called a semi-automatic. A rifle which continues to fire as long as the trigger is held is called an automatic weapon, while a pistol that does the same is usually called a machine pistol.
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> shot are generally called automatics (like police issue Glocks).
No, those are semi-automatics. Whoever is calling them automatics is wrong.
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While you may be going off on someone who doesn't understand the difference between the firing mechanism guns; he has the advantage over you, he knows how to use a comma and a period correctly.
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CHARGE: Engaging in threatening Behaviour
DETAILS: Photographed officers carrying weapons with cell-phone. Therefore, he is a dick.
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What about computer crimes?
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Re: What about computer crimes?
Therefore he has an absolute legal obligation to preserve it in its original state, and not doing that leads to spoilation and doing it with intent could lead to sanctions against him. Carlos miller (the guy who first posted this story) is currently going through this similar situation with a charge of his own where he recovered evidence that was allegedly deleted after his own arrest. http://www.pixiq.com/article/judge-grants-continuance-for-my-case-things-look-promising
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Sure, in the same way they're allowed to arrest you for taking photos in public ... and if "sure" means "no."
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Maybe I should just go around photographing police. It seems like a good way to win lawsuits and get police who shouldn't be on the job, off the job.
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It's also a very good way to get your butt kicked.
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I wasn't being serious though. I don't have that kind of free time.
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I think the officers were confused
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> and that was 30 or more years ago. I doubt it went up since then
Your IQ can't be all that high, either, since these officers weren't NYPD and it says so right in the article above.
Behold the irony.
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Interesting
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Being a Dick
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RE
Resistance is Futile, we are the INFORMED!!
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The Significance of Assault Rifles
Policemen began to carry semi-automatic pistols as they became "para-militarized," with the expansion of the War on Drugs. They adopted the tactics of counter-insurgency warfare, and an, um, philosophical attitude about civilian casualties, even when those casualties turned out to be children or old-age pensioners. Of course, it goes further with assault rifles. An assault rifle, such as an AR-15, is designed for blasting away at someone you can barely see, at a range of, say, two hundred yards. As used for police work, it stands for the idea that there are no consequences to firing into a crowd of noncombatants, Blackwater-fashion. However, unlike the Iraqis killed by Blackwater contractors, New Yorkers have the right to vote, and to vote against the officials who ultimately hired the transit police. There are consequences under a democratic system of government.
When a policeman carries an assault rifle, that is an expression of hatred for democracy. The culmination of that kind of attitude was the 23-F operation in Spain. On 23 February 1981, Lieutenant-Colonel Antonio Tejoro of the Guardia Civil, with two hundred of his men, packing sub-machine-guns, invaded the chamber of the Spanish Parliament, and took the deputies hostage, in front of a national television audience. The coup was quelled when the King, Juan Carlos, announced on television that: "The crown, symbol of the permanence and unity of the nation, cannot tolerate, in any form, actions or attitudes attempting to interrupt the democratic process."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23-F
When you see a transit cop carrying an AR-15 on his beat, you know that, in his heart of hearts, he is contemplating the possibility of invading the Capitol, taking both the House of Representatives and the Senate hostage, and proclaiming himself the "Maximum Leader," or "Jefe de Oro," or something like that. Such a transit cop does not love the Constitution of the United States.
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Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
If you can accurately hit a target at 200 yards with an assault rifle you probably need to be the guy packing the DMR or sniper rifle instead of the assault rifle.
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200 yards, 600 feet
the army trains to shoot at targets with Iron sights on M16 or M4, that means no telescope, at 300 meters, standard rifle range qualification, that is 984 feet
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Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
> of hatred for democracy.
Or maybe it's just a hatred of being outgunned by the assholes on the street.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm1PEY8F4xE
> When you see a transit cop carrying an AR-15 on his beat,
> you know that, in his heart of hearts, he is contemplating the
> possibility of invading the Capitol, taking both the House of
> Representatives and the Senate hostage, and proclaiming
> himself the "Maximum Leader," or "Jefe de Oro
Wow, your elevator doesn't go all the way to the top, does it?
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Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
Train stations are simply an extreme case of what cities are like: lots of walls, penetrated by transportation corridors. There is not very much open country. The areas where trouble is expected are generally more densely built-up than the average.
In talking about what kinds of weapons policemen should carry, I am not talking about SWAT or whatever. They remain out of sight until they are needed. When the cop on the beat starts carrying a "bad-ass-dude" military weapon which is tactically counterproductive, to say the least, then he is making phallic gestures, and making phallic gestures puts him in the same territory as George Zimmerman, the cop-wannabe.
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> from someone, and still have a line of sight
All that is great but it has exactly zero to do with your idiotic claim that any beat cop carrying an MP5 is secretly harboring fantasies of shooting up Congress and taking over the country.
If you really believe that crap, you should go seek some in-patient psychiatric treatment sooner rather than later.
> When the cop on the beat starts carrying a "bad-ass-dude"
> military weapon which is tactically counterproductive, to say
> the least, then he is making phallic gestures, and making
> phallic gestures puts him in the same territory as George
> Zimmerman, the cop-wannabe.
You really are a lunatic, aren't you?
Here's the reality: the cop on the beat doesn't get to choose what gear he's going to carry any more than he gets to choose whether or not to wear a uniform. He's not making a 'phallic gesture', you nutbag, he's just doing what his sergeant or lieutenant or captain told him to do, who are in turn merely following departmental policy themselves.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
There are three books which I would suggest you read. As I understand you are a Los Angeleno, you might start with:
Joe A Domanick, _To Protect and Serve: The L. A. P. D.'s Century of War in the City of Dreams _ .
James McClure, _Spike Island: Portrait of a Police Division_, 1981. As I recall from reading it about thirty years ago, a sympathetic account of "community policing," as practiced in Liverpool, England.
Also, Sanche de Grammont, _The French: Portrait of a People_, 1969. Not about policing as such, but given France's history at the time (Algeria, May 1968, etc.), it necessarily took in a lot of issues of public order.
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> the Nuremburg tribunal, once and for all,
> that obedience to orders is no defense for
> anything.
That might be remotely relevant if we were talking something illegal or even immoral. As it is, all we've got here is your bizarre assertion that a cop carrying his issued gear is making a 'phallic gesture', which, even if it were true, is neither illegal nor immoral.
Therefore there's no need for those following orders to even use it as a defense.
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Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
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Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles (#72)
The Armalite rifle (AR-15, M-16, etc) was designed for an analogous situation, where a guerrilla was running through the brush, pushing branches aside as they got in his way, and producing a visible swaying motion in the foliage. A pursuing soldier could see that the guerrilla had to be within ten feet or so of the moving foliage, and the Armalite rifle was essentially designed to saturate that ten feet with bullets. The Armalite is not accurate like a sniper rifle, but it is accurate enough to use the available information.
Of course, when things don't work as planned soldiers wind up massacring entire villages.
The difficulty of the Armalite approach, as applied to police work, to the case of a thief fleeing through a market crowd, is that you are going to wind up killing ten innocent bystanders over one case of petty larceny. On the other hand, if you give your policeman a bicycle (and make him wear short pants), he can chase after the fugitive, tweeting his whistle furiously to clear people out of his way, but not over-exerting himself, and eventually the fugitive gives up out of exhaustion. For an indoor cop, such as a mall cop, or a railroad station cop, something like a skateboard might be more practical. You deliberately chose a technology which moves your policemen to a position where he can act as a good policemen, Miranda warning and all, rather than slipping into the "kill people and destroy things" logic of the soldier.
Of course, the short pants are an issue. You have to face the fact that middle-age Jewish women will whistle, and blow kisses, and shout, "Oy Vey, did you ever see such _legs_."
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What will 10 MTA 12th graders do with 100 citizens? If they are stupid enough to arrest them, then go to KickStart and have the 100 raise money to go after NYC/MTA to the tune of 250K each or $25M total. Take it to Supreme Court if necessary. I'll do a $1K just for the entertainment value.
Civil suits should be filed individually against each MTA agent such that they become public and visible figures that will have to answer for the rest of their life why they don't have a basic understanding and appreciation of "Serve and Protect" a Free Society.
Police Dicks need to learn to "suck it up".
pun intended.
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He could paint on them "These trucks were purchased by New York City by someone being a dick," Oh and "Release Bradley Manning"
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This drives me mad. The police violate a member of the public's rights, thus offending the public and then the public end up paying for the punishment through their taxes.
Until the individual officers involved bear some kind of punishment for this action they'll just keep doing it.
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Flash ?
If he's clicking away firing the flash in the officer's faces I might consider that "being a dick"...
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Yes, someone was a dick
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charges
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I have watched cops take weed from people and pocket it(not legal I asked the DA, they have to bag and tag it even if they let the person go with a warning)
I have watched them take a complaint/accusation and toss somebody in jail and proceed to railroad them without ever checking the persons alibi, one case was a friend of mine who was in the hospitle when his exwife insisted he broke into her house and kicked the crap out of her....he had been in a very bad car wreck, so bad he had pins in his leg(above and blow knee, and in his foot), they arrested him as he got home from hosp, and managed to tare open his stitches....no they didnt take him to hosp, at least not till the jail doc said "fuck you gotta get him to the hospital thats infected and he could die"
in the end, after a lawyer he had to pay showed them proof from his doctors and hosp staff that he couldnt possibly have done it, they let him go....only took them 4 days AFTER being given the proof.
they also tried to pressure the hosp staff and doc into saying he could have done it....even the cop(from across the river in oregon) said he couldnt have done it, they had to cut the door off his little truck to get him out.....he was in horrible shape....
took him YEARS to get a settlement from the state....their rough treatment also insured hes got constant pain from that legg, they drug him out of the car and threw him on the ground, then drug him to his feet....to shove him in a car, all as his mother cried and tried to get them to stop...
again, you need to understand the reality of how the law is dealt with in this country vs the word of the law and how the govt wants the law to appear to be handled.
my advice, if your accused of anything and arent rich, dont even consider the thought you may be treated fairly....just accept your gonna get screwed by the system.
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Call for a Take A Picture Of A Cop Day
It's time to fight back agains the police state!
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Re: Call for a Take A Picture Of A Cop Day
Wrongful arrest charges can be brought...IA loves this sort of thing. There's a system in place to deal with bad cops.
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Re: Call for a Take A Picture Of A Cop Day
It's funny to me that we could have a "Take a Picture of a Cop Day" just like the "Draw a Picture of Mohamed Day."
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Friends filming nearby
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entrapment anyone
Then post the video, with sound, on YouTube. In fact, the guy getting arrested should prompt the arresting officer if he is being arrested because "I'm a dick, too?"
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