Wikileaks Truck Owner Arrested For Photographing Police; Told It Was Because He Was 'A Dick'

from the that's-not-how-this-works dept

Fri, Apr 27th 2012 2:35pm — Mike Masnick

There's a guy in NY, Clark Stoekley, who apparently owns a white panel van that he's painted with the Wikileaks logo to raise awareness of the plight of Bradley Manning (though he has no other connection to Manning or Wikileaks). There's a lot more info on the truck on his website. However, it appears that, unrelated to the truck, Stoekley has another issue to deal with: he was arrested for photographing police at Penn Station in Manhattan. He saw police in the station carrying semi-automatic weapons (an unfortunately common site in Penn Station), and he decided to photograph them with his phone. And from there, a familiar, if unfortunate, and almost certainly illegal incident ensued. As told by Pixiq:

Metropolitan Transit Authority police arrested a man for photographing them at Penn Station in New York City this afternoon – deleting his photo – before releasing him from a jail cell an hour later.

Clark Stoeckley was issued a summons charging him with “engaging in threatening behavior.”

“I was walking through Penn Station and I came across these MTA cops with semi-automatic weapons,” he said in a phone interview with Photography is Not a Crime.

“I stopped to take a photo and the cop came up to me and arrested me. I asked, ‘why am I being arrested?’

“’Because you’re a dick,’” the officer responded.

Of course, we've written tons of stories about police arresting the members of public for photographing or filming them while on duty. The MTA and New York may want to pay close attention to what happened up in Boston, where Simon Glik prevailed against the city of Boston and the Boston Police Department for violating his First and Fourth Amendment rights under very similar circumstances (though I don't even think they deleted the photos). In the end, the city of Boston had to pay Glik a large sum of money for violating his rights.

At what point will police finally learn that when they're in public, being photographed or video taped is fair game?

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Filed Under: bradley manning, new york, penn station, police, wikileaks

80 Comments

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:Lobo Santo (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:41pm

Backwards Queries...
"At what point will police finally learn that when they're in public, being photographed or video taped is fair game?"
Might read better as:
When will the public learn that regardless of their alleged rights and the so-called "legality" of photographing police officers, this sort of behavior will not be tolerated?

Questioning authority in any way is simply not allowed.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:42pm

Better stay out of NYC.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:43pm

Better stay out of NYC.
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fb39ca4, 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:44pm

This sets a precedent for Mike to be arrested.
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That One Guy (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:47pm

I'm actually really hoping the 'because you're a dick' charge is considered an arrest worthy one, think of how many politicians you could get with that one...
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That One Guy (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:49pm

Re: Backwards Queries...
Seriously, can we get a 'sad but true' button already?
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GMacGuffin (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:53pm

Um, what's the significance of stressing "semi-automatic" (in the quoted article)? Pretty much all US cops everywhere carry a semi-automatic sidearm ... Did he mean assault rifle? Something other? Just saying.
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Joshua Bardwell (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:55pm

He saw police in the station carrying semi-automatic weapons (an unfortunately common site in Penn Station), and he decided to photograph them with his phone.

I wish that Firearms 101 was a part of every journalist's basic education.

Semi-automatic weapons are simply weapons that load the next round without any action from the user when a round is fired. In other words, a pump-action shotgun is not semiauto, because you have to rack the slide after firing to load the next round. A lever-action rifle is not semiauto because you have to work the lever. A bolt-action rifle is not semiauto... etc...

Every. Single. Pistol. That you see a police officer carrying in the US is semiauto. Every. Single. Police. Officer. That you see in the US is carrying a semiauto weapon in their belt holster.

Now, I realize that you are just parroting what the original source said, but that's no excuse. If he said they were carrying knives and it was obvious they actually had guns, you would probably point out that he was mistaken. If he said they were from SFPD but they were really State Patrol, you might point that out.

Why does this matter? Because misconceptions about guns factor into what laws get passed. Want to pass a law restricting the possession of semiautomatic firearms? Hell yes! It's got the word "auto" in it. That must be bad, right? Wrong. Automatic weapons, which fire multiple rounds with a single pull of the trigger, are a whole different beast, legally, and functionally, from semiauto ones, which are the bread and butter of all modern firearms. This is exactly like when people confuse trademark, patent, and copyright law, and people like Mike speak out vehemently to clarify the confusion, because it matters when confused people try to mis-apply the law, or, worse yet, pass new laws based on mis-understanding of the facts.

Please update the article with a correct. Thank you.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:56pm

Re:
Well, not wanting to assume anything... I figured they just normally use single-shot weapons in NYC--black powder muskets or something.

Think about it; there's been cops in NY for like 200(?) years! And most police departments are a tad underfunded...
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Rikuo (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:57pm

I wonder...what are the odds that the arresting officer quoted himself saying "Because you're a dick" in the paperwork? Or some other nonsense. Because I'm curious about what s/he would write what the actual charge was. I mean, its not like they'd write
CHARGE: Engaging in threatening Behaviour
DETAILS: Photographed officers carrying weapons with cell-phone. Therefore, he is a dick.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 2:57pm

Re: Backwards Queries...
Baltimore is way ahead of them. They arrest you for interference instead.
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Joshua Bardwell (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:00pm

Re:
A correction, that is.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:05pm

What the police will do when every man, woman and child uses a recording device on their faces to record everything?
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Crosbie Fitch (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:14pm

Re: Re: Backwards Queries...
Constable Savage would not have hesitated to arrest for the offence of "Photographing a police office whilst on duty". See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y

Updated version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ59yboiIK4
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:23pm

Re:
Because it sounds more sinister and repressive. I haven't seen a cop with a revolver or bolt action since Dragnet.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:24pm

Re:
Because it sounds more sinister and repressive. I haven't seen a cop with a revolver or bolt action since Dragnet.
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Bill Silverstein (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:26pm

What about computer crimes?
The cop destroyed data on a computing device that is used in interstate commerce. This may be a criminal violation of the CFAA act.
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Watchit (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:35pm

So the police deleted the photos off his phone, are they allowed to do that?
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GMacGuffin (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:42pm

Re:
So the police deleted the photos off his phone, are they allowed to do that?

Sure, in the same way they're allowed to arrest you for taking photos in public ... and if "sure" means "no."
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A Guy (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:43pm

Hmmm....

Maybe I should just go around photographing police. It seems like a good way to win lawsuits and get police who shouldn't be on the job, off the job.
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varagix, 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:45pm

Re:
Or when everyone has cameras for eyes, Deus Ex style? 'You're under arrest for looking at me'?
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DCX2, 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:46pm

Re:
Had the "officers" not deleted his picture, we might know the answer to your question.
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DCX2, 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:49pm

I think the officers were confused
I guess they think anything that can shoot is a threat, regardless of whether it shoots bullets or pictures.
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DCX2, 27 Apr 2012 @ 3:52pm

Re:
First, does it matter whether they were single shot, semi-auto, or fully-auto? A man was arrested for taking pictures of cops in a way that did not interfere with their ability to enforce the law. The gun is just a red herring.

Second, they were "Metropolitan Transportation Authority". Are these really "police officers", like the NYPD, or are they more like security personnel, ala mall cops? Because a mall cop who is packing heat would bother me, semi-auto or not.
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The Devil's Coachman (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 4:00pm

Re: I think the officers were confused
Last I knew, the average NYPD IQ was somewhere around 82, and that was 30 or more years ago. I doubt it went up since then,
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Pixelation, 27 Apr 2012 @ 4:03pm

Interesting
A dick arresting a dick.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 4:18pm

What the hell do they have against people named richard?
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 4:25pm

I wonder why they bothered arresting him? Why not just shoot him? As long as they're recreating the Gestapo, they may as well go all out.
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Beech, 27 Apr 2012 @ 4:31pm

Being a Dick
Personally i think this country would be in much better shape if more people were arrested for being dicks. Unfortunately, it seems the ones most in need of incarceration for dickitude are the ones behind the badges :(
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Joshua Bardwell (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 4:32pm

Re: Re:
I think that it does matter, or I wouldn't have said anything. I agree that the inaccurate reporting about the gun is secondary to the civil rights violation that occurred when he was arrested. Nevertheless, it just goes back to basic reporting: get the facts right. This is an important fact that has been reported incorrectly, and it has serious legal and political implications. That those implications are not directly relevant to the blog's domain doesn't make them less serious.
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Joshua Bardwell (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 4:33pm

Re: Re: Re:
Also, it just irritates the piss out of me when I hear someone blathering about OH NOES A SEMIAUTOMATIC WEAPON THE HORRORS. It's as if they're saying, "Oh noes! A fuel injected car! The horrors!" I just roll my eyes. But in Mike's case, I want him to be better than that.
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vegetaman (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 4:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I have to concur. People need to understand the difference between a "semi-automatic" and an "automatic" weapon. I've heard enough terrible fearmongering speech that preys off of ignorance of terms like this, and the ever present bullshit terminology and classification of so called "assault weapons".

It seems to me like whether the police were carrying semi-automatics or revolvers is irrelevant to the guy being arrested for snapping a photo because he was "being a dick", so to speak. If they had been carrying M-16s, M-14s, AR-15s, MP5s, or something of that nature... Then maybe the firearms references would be more interesting (and possibly relevant). As it stands, is there any reason we SHOULDN'T expect police to be carrying a semi-automatic firearm?
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Digitari, 27 Apr 2012 @ 5:09pm

RE
Most likely they were rifles and not sidearms, hence the original impetus to take the "threatening" Photo to begin with, the other aspect I find humorous, is the deletion of the file. I have software (open source) that Undeletes pictures.

Resistance is Futile, we are the INFORMED!!
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ridellap (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 5:21pm

Re:
"Maybe I should just go around photographing police. It seems like a good way to win lawsuits and get police who shouldn't be on the job, off the job."

It's also a very good way to get your butt kicked.
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A Guy (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 5:35pm

Re: Re:
... like I said, win lawsuits

I wasn't being serious though. I don't have that kind of free time.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 6:08pm

If you can get arrested for being a dick something tells me it's time for some serious reviewing of police staff. They may very well be breaking the laws they enforce.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 6:19pm

Re:
Shoot him? Probably cause too much paperwork...
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The Devil's Coachman (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 6:34pm

Re: I think the officers were confused
Last I knew, the average NYPD IQ was somewhere around 82, and that was 30 or more years ago. I doubt it went up since then,
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Andrew D. Todd, 27 Apr 2012 @ 6:56pm

The Significance of Assault Rifles
Looking at Brassey's Infantry Weapons of the World, (1975, ed. Major General J. I. H. Owen OBE, late Royal Marines, et. al.), I find some interesting points in the discussion of Revolvers and Pistols. The authors make the point that revolvers are preferable for policemen, because they are mechanically simpler, and less likely to malfunction when not used regularly. This was before the War on Drugs took off. It was assumed that a good cop didn't need to use his gun very often, or to fire very many shots when he did. Laying down a barrage, military fashion, was likely to kill too many innocent bystanders. The British police were admired all over the world for their ability to do their job without carrying guns on the beat.

Policemen began to carry semi-automatic pistols as they became "para-militarized," with the expansion of the War on Drugs. They adopted the tactics of counter-insurgency warfare, and an, um, philosophical attitude about civilian casualties, even when those casualties turned out to be children or old-age pensioners. Of course, it goes further with assault rifles. An assault rifle, such as an AR-15, is designed for blasting away at someone you can barely see, at a range of, say, two hundred yards. As used for police work, it stands for the idea that there are no consequences to firing into a crowd of noncombatants, Blackwater-fashion. However, unlike the Iraqis killed by Blackwater contractors, New Yorkers have the right to vote, and to vote against the officials who ultimately hired the transit police. There are consequences under a democratic system of government.

When a policeman carries an assault rifle, that is an expression of hatred for democracy. The culmination of that kind of attitude was the 23-F operation in Spain. On 23 February 1981, Lieutenant-Colonel Antonio Tejoro of the Guardia Civil, with two hundred of his men, packing sub-machine-guns, invaded the chamber of the Spanish Parliament, and took the deputies hostage, in front of a national television audience. The coup was quelled when the King, Juan Carlos, announced on television that: "The crown, symbol of the permanence and unity of the nation, cannot tolerate, in any form, actions or attitudes attempting to interrupt the democratic process."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23-F

When you see a transit cop carrying an AR-15 on his beat, you know that, in his heart of hearts, he is contemplating the possibility of invading the Capitol, taking both the House of Representatives and the Senate hostage, and proclaiming himself the "Maximum Leader," or "Jefe de Oro," or something like that. Such a transit cop does not love the Constitution of the United States.
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Jason Still (profile), 27 Apr 2012 @ 7:31pm

Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
An assault rifle, such as an AR-15, is designed for blasting away at someone you can barely see, at a range of, say, two hundred yards.

If you can accurately hit a target at 200 yards with an assault rifle you probably need to be the guy packing the DMR or sniper rifle instead of the assault rifle.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 9:30pm

What would be "interesting" would be to get 100+ people to converge on Penn Station, all with cameras. They stay out of the way of MTA idiots but watch and observe. If/when something interesting happens, they all start to take pictures.

What will 10 MTA 12th graders do with 100 citizens? If they are stupid enough to arrest them, then go to KickStart and have the 100 raise money to go after NYC/MTA to the tune of 250K each or $25M total. Take it to Supreme Court if necessary. I'll do a $1K just for the entertainment value.

Civil suits should be filed individually against each MTA agent such that they become public and visible figures that will have to answer for the rest of their life why they don't have a basic understanding and appreciation of "Serve and Protect" a Free Society.

Police Dicks need to learn to "suck it up".
pun intended.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 9:47pm

Stop the madness of Semi vs. Auto.
I think the type of weapon being carried is a red herring... you and others are getting distracted by a debate of effectiveness of weapons to be supplied. (I'm ignoring the debate that whether MTA personel can use any particular type of weapon effectively).

If they were outfitted with slingshots instead, I could reasonable assume that someone would want to photo that.

Please get back on topic of why he should have been arrested?
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Apr 2012 @ 9:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I don't think Mike has experience with firearms. That would explain this misconception. It explains why politicians keep using the term "cyber".
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G Thompson (profile), 28 Apr 2012 @ 12:34am

Re: What about computer crimes?
Actually it would be more likely destruction of evidence since the device was lawfully in his possession after the arrest and use of the device was the reasoning he used in his arrest.

Therefore he has an absolute legal obligation to preserve it in its original state, and not doing that leads to spoilation and doing it with intent could lead to sanctions against him. Carlos miller (the guy who first posted this story) is currently going through this similar situation with a charge of his own where he recovered evidence that was allegedly deleted after his own arrest. http://www.pixiq.com/article/judge-grants-continuance-for-my-case-things-look-promising
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G Thompson (profile), 28 Apr 2012 @ 12:40am

So, I gather this guy is going to shortly be purchasing a whole lot of new trucks to point courtesy of the City of New York.

He could paint on them "These trucks were purchased by New York City by someone being a dick," Oh and "Release Bradley Manning"
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Tom Landry (profile), 28 Apr 2012 @ 1:03am

Re:
Good post Joshua. Although its secondary to the argument of the article, you bring up a very important issue.
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Andrew D. Todd, 28 Apr 2012 @ 1:21am

Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles (#40)
Well, it's not a question of accuracy. Rather, it's a matter of someone firing a whole magazine of twenty or thirty rounds as a single burst on full automatic, and getting a hit as a matter of cumulative probability. In short we are talking about an assault rifle as a kind of light machine gun, not as a rifle. It might practically be a matter of saturating the area around the place where the target was last seen. During the Vietnam war, troops typically carried six hundred rounds on their backs (two bandoleers, thirty magazines), to give some idea of the rate at which they used up ammunition.
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blue_tongue, 28 Apr 2012 @ 5:00am

Re:
Verbiage is not particularly consistent across firearms.

Pistols that feed from the handgrip, feed and re-cock after a shot are generally called automatics (like police issue Glocks). The same action in a shotgun or rifle is called a semi-automatic. A rifle which continues to fire as long as the trigger is held is called an automatic weapon, while a pistol that does the same is usually called a machine pistol.
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Call me Al, 28 Apr 2012 @ 5:35am

"In the end, the city of Boston had to pay Glik a large sum of money for violating his rights."

This drives me mad. The police violate a member of the public's rights, thus offending the public and then the public end up paying for the punishment through their taxes.

Until the individual officers involved bear some kind of punishment for this action they'll just keep doing it.
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TheNutman69321 (profile), 28 Apr 2012 @ 7:50am

I'm just gonna assume this article meant they had semi automatic rifles. It seems to stress the semi automatic weapons part when every single cop in the country has a semi automatic weapon on him every single second that they're on duty.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Apr 2012 @ 9:09am

Flash ?
Was he using the flash when taking these pictures ?
If he's clicking away firing the flash in the officer's faces I might consider that "being a dick"...
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tpp, 28 Apr 2012 @ 10:02am

Yes, someone was a dick
But not who the police said was a dick.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Apr 2012 @ 11:16am

Re:
"Every. Single. Pistol. That you see a police officer carrying in the US is semiauto. Every. Single. Police. Officer. That you see in the US is carrying a semiauto weapon in their belt holster."

While you may be going off on someone who doesn't understand the difference between the firing mechanism guns; he has the advantage over you, he knows how to use a comma and a period correctly.
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btr1701 (profile), 28 Apr 2012 @ 11:53am

Re: Re:
> Second, they were "Metropolitan Transportation Authority". Are
> these really "police officers", like the NYPD

Yes, the MTA are fully-sworn police officers. They were created to deal with the unique jurisdictional issues in the New York Metropolitan area, because no one department could have full authority, due to all the different cities (and states-- MTA has jurisdiction in New Jersey, also) that the transit system covers.
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btr1701 (profile), 28 Apr 2012 @ 11:54am

Re: Re:
> Pistols that feed from the handgrip, feed and re-cock after a
> shot are generally called automatics (like police issue Glocks).

No, those are semi-automatics. Whoever is calling them automatics is wrong.
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btr1701 (profile), 28 Apr 2012 @ 11:57am

Re: Re: I think the officers were confused
> Last I knew, the average NYPD IQ was somewhere around 82,
> and that was 30 or more years ago. I doubt it went up since then

Your IQ can't be all that high, either, since these officers weren't NYPD and it says so right in the article above.

Behold the irony.
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btr1701 (profile), 28 Apr 2012 @ 12:02pm

Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
> When a policeman carries an assault rifle, that is an expression
> of hatred for democracy.

Or maybe it's just a hatred of being outgunned by the assholes on the street.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm1PEY8F4xE

> When you see a transit cop carrying an AR-15 on his beat,
> you know that, in his heart of hearts, he is contemplating the
> possibility of invading the Capitol, taking both the House of
> Representatives and the Senate hostage, and proclaiming
> himself the "Maximum Leader," or "Jefe de Oro

Wow, your elevator doesn't go all the way to the top, does it?
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Apr 2012 @ 7:12pm

Stupid society.
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Andrew D. Todd, 28 Apr 2012 @ 8:44pm

Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
Transit cops operate in extremely crowded indoor spaces, where there is a high probability of bullets ricocheting when they strike walls, floors, ceilings, etc. Just carrying a gun which is too big to fit in a holster, it must be practically impossible to avoid inadvertently pointing it at people, thus violating the first rule of gun safety. Pointing your piece at the ground doesn't mean a whole lot, when the "ground" is actually a highly polished concrete floor. Often these crowded spaces take the form of hallways or tunnels. The only way you can be more than twenty or thirty feet from someone, and still have a line of sight, is if it is along the longitudinal axis of, say, a subway station platform. There are likely to be hundreds of people along the length of the platform, and a stray shot is pretty well bound to find an innocent bystander target. Even the British SAS Regiment, who are the certified experts in responding to terrorist events, use pistols under these circumstances. They train to fire careful single shots at close range, while moving from room to room.

Train stations are simply an extreme case of what cities are like: lots of walls, penetrated by transportation corridors. There is not very much open country. The areas where trouble is expected are generally more densely built-up than the average.

In talking about what kinds of weapons policemen should carry, I am not talking about SWAT or whatever. They remain out of sight until they are needed. When the cop on the beat starts carrying a "bad-ass-dude" military weapon which is tactically counterproductive, to say the least, then he is making phallic gestures, and making phallic gestures puts him in the same territory as George Zimmerman, the cop-wannabe.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Apr 2012 @ 11:01pm

He appears to have all the requirements of being a dick.
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btr1701 (profile), 28 Apr 2012 @ 11:04pm

Re: Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
> The only way you can be more than twenty or thirty feet
> from someone, and still have a line of sight

All that is great but it has exactly zero to do with your idiotic claim that any beat cop carrying an MP5 is secretly harboring fantasies of shooting up Congress and taking over the country.

If you really believe that crap, you should go seek some in-patient psychiatric treatment sooner rather than later.

> When the cop on the beat starts carrying a "bad-ass-dude"
> military weapon which is tactically counterproductive, to say
> the least, then he is making phallic gestures, and making
> phallic gestures puts him in the same territory as George
> Zimmerman, the cop-wannabe.

You really are a lunatic, aren't you?

Here's the reality: the cop on the beat doesn't get to choose what gear he's going to carry any more than he gets to choose whether or not to wear a uniform. He's not making a 'phallic gesture', you nutbag, he's just doing what his sergeant or lieutenant or captain told him to do, who are in turn merely following departmental policy themselves.
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Purple Library Guy, 29 Apr 2012 @ 1:16am

Re:
Well yeah, but there'd be no cops left to do it because they would have all had to arrest each other.
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Someone who has a brain, 29 Apr 2012 @ 4:54am

Re: Backwards Queries...
WTF?

So, if I understand you well (which, sadly, I do)...

1. Constitutional rights are worthless.
2. Arbitrary actions , violence and violation of citizon's constitutional rights are allowed and always justified from police forces
3. Order and Police forces are the only and central powers in your country.

Well played... Adolf?
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Andrew D. Todd, 29 Apr 2012 @ 11:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
In the first place, it was established at the Nuremburg tribunal, once and for all, that obedience to orders is no defense for anything.

There are three books which I would suggest you read. As I understand you are a Los Angeleno, you might start with:

Joe A Domanick, _To Protect and Serve: The L. A. P. D.'s Century of War in the City of Dreams _ .

James McClure, _Spike Island: Portrait of a Police Division_, 1981. As I recall from reading it about thirty years ago, a sympathetic account of "community policing," as practiced in Liverpool, England.

Also, Sanche de Grammont, _The French: Portrait of a People_, 1969. Not about policing as such, but given France's history at the time (Algeria, May 1968, etc.), it necessarily took in a lot of issues of public order.
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Big Lenny, 29 Apr 2012 @ 5:02pm

charges
I'll believe "being a dick" is a charge, as soon as Texas executes someone for it!
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Zem, 29 Apr 2012 @ 5:52pm

Re: Being a Dick
While I agree with the sentiment it would be way too dangerous. Once the legal fraternity got hold of such a new law, 50% of us would wind up being charged because "as the law was not clear in its definition it can only be assumed that having one makes you one"
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AzureSky (profile), 29 Apr 2012 @ 8:24pm

something people in the states fail to understand is that legally the cops cant do much of what they do, but, in reality they can do whatever they want, and justify it well enough that most of the time, its not even worth trying to protest.

I have watched cops take weed from people and pocket it(not legal I asked the DA, they have to bag and tag it even if they let the person go with a warning)

I have watched them take a complaint/accusation and toss somebody in jail and proceed to railroad them without ever checking the persons alibi, one case was a friend of mine who was in the hospitle when his exwife insisted he broke into her house and kicked the crap out of her....he had been in a very bad car wreck, so bad he had pins in his leg(above and blow knee, and in his foot), they arrested him as he got home from hosp, and managed to tare open his stitches....no they didnt take him to hosp, at least not till the jail doc said "fuck you gotta get him to the hospital thats infected and he could die"

in the end, after a lawyer he had to pay showed them proof from his doctors and hosp staff that he couldnt possibly have done it, they let him go....only took them 4 days AFTER being given the proof.

they also tried to pressure the hosp staff and doc into saying he could have done it....even the cop(from across the river in oregon) said he couldnt have done it, they had to cut the door off his little truck to get him out.....he was in horrible shape....

took him YEARS to get a settlement from the state....their rough treatment also insured hes got constant pain from that legg, they drug him out of the car and threw him on the ground, then drug him to his feet....to shove him in a car, all as his mother cried and tried to get them to stop...

again, you need to understand the reality of how the law is dealt with in this country vs the word of the law and how the govt wants the law to appear to be handled.

my advice, if your accused of anything and arent rich, dont even consider the thought you may be treated fairly....just accept your gonna get screwed by the system.
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Niall (profile), 30 Apr 2012 @ 4:46am

Re:
Stop fapping.
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Niall (profile), 30 Apr 2012 @ 4:47am

Re:
Why not, it gets done with the internet all the time! "Looking at porn online - ban the internet. Looking at porn in magazines - don't ban magazines".
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Niall (profile), 30 Apr 2012 @ 4:54am

Re:
Make him carry all his gear in obnoxious day-glo colours. Keep him away from actually dangerous areas and give him a water pistol. Make him wear his underwear on his hea. In other words, shame the heck out of him.
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Amber, 30 Apr 2012 @ 5:23am

Call for a Take A Picture Of A Cop Day
Why don't we have a Take A Picture Of A Cop day where people en masse go out and photograph and film cops all over the country. We can tag team so we can have people taking pictures of the picture takers being arrested on trumped-up charges. Is there an app that will upload pictures to flickr or something as soon as it is taken?

It's time to fight back agains the police state!
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2012 @ 8:50am

Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
The definition of assault rifle does not mean fully automatic, at least not when the legislature is writing laws. If the guns being carried were semi-auto or auto I don't know. I assume they were long guns. Rather than meaning the person carrying them has no regard for the constitution, it might mean that instead he wanted greater accuracy and quicker target acquisition.
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KindredIndust, 30 Apr 2012 @ 10:35am

Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
OMG... What if its an actual DSLR!!!
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2012 @ 10:38am

Re: Call for a Take A Picture Of A Cop Day
How about we call for a general police strike day and see how many people realize that taking pictures of cops is such a ridiculous issue to be going on and on and on and on about.

Wrongful arrest charges can be brought...IA loves this sort of thing. There's a system in place to deal with bad cops.
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Andrew D. Todd, 30 Apr 2012 @ 11:13am

Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles (#72)
Say, a teenage boy steels something off a market stall, or snatches a purse, and dashes away through the crowd. He will be swerving around people in the crowd, and by the time he is ten or twenty yards away, he will be behind other people, and you won't be able to actually see him. What you will be able to see is a kind of ripple in the crowd, as people step out of his way. You cannot be accurate, no matter what kind of weapon you have, because you do not know the target's position to a couple of feet of accuracy.

The Armalite rifle (AR-15, M-16, etc) was designed for an analogous situation, where a guerrilla was running through the brush, pushing branches aside as they got in his way, and producing a visible swaying motion in the foliage. A pursuing soldier could see that the guerrilla had to be within ten feet or so of the moving foliage, and the Armalite rifle was essentially designed to saturate that ten feet with bullets. The Armalite is not accurate like a sniper rifle, but it is accurate enough to use the available information.

Of course, when things don't work as planned soldiers wind up massacring entire villages.

The difficulty of the Armalite approach, as applied to police work, to the case of a thief fleeing through a market crowd, is that you are going to wind up killing ten innocent bystanders over one case of petty larceny. On the other hand, if you give your policeman a bicycle (and make him wear short pants), he can chase after the fugitive, tweeting his whistle furiously to clear people out of his way, but not over-exerting himself, and eventually the fugitive gives up out of exhaustion. For an indoor cop, such as a mall cop, or a railroad station cop, something like a skateboard might be more practical. You deliberately chose a technology which moves your policemen to a position where he can act as a good policemen, Miranda warning and all, rather than slipping into the "kill people and destroy things" logic of the soldier.

Of course, the short pants are an issue. You have to face the fact that middle-age Jewish women will whistle, and blow kisses, and shout, "Oy Vey, did you ever see such _legs_."
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Apr 2012 @ 3:00pm

Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
and your stupid

200 yards, 600 feet

the army trains to shoot at targets with Iron sights on M16 or M4, that means no telescope, at 300 meters, standard rifle range qualification, that is 984 feet
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btr1701 (profile), 1 May 2012 @ 11:05am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Significance of Assault Rifles
> In the first place, it was established at
> the Nuremburg tribunal, once and for all,
> that obedience to orders is no defense for
> anything.

That might be remotely relevant if we were talking something illegal or even immoral. As it is, all we've got here is your bizarre assertion that a cop carrying his issued gear is making a 'phallic gesture', which, even if it were true, is neither illegal nor immoral.

Therefore there's no need for those following orders to even use it as a defense.
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Jose_X, 8 May 2012 @ 9:45pm

Friends filming nearby
Oops, maybe next time... just in case. .. had charges been filed.
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Curtis Rowell, 9 May 2012 @ 9:43am

entrapment anyone
This calls for a two man photo team, one to take the still - and get arrested - and another, further away, taking video with the former 'bait' wired for sound...

Then post the video, with sound, on YouTube. In fact, the guy getting arrested should prompt the arresting officer if he is being arrested because "I'm a dick, too?"
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phlynhi (profile), 3 Jun 2012 @ 8:43am

Re: Call for a Take A Picture Of A Cop Day
I was thinking the same thing... Google will upload my pics and vids to my Google account "instantly" (within a few seconds, anyway) on my Android phone. I have to believe (but don't know for sure) that there has to be a similar app for the iPhone.

It's funny to me that we could have a "Take a Picture of a Cop Day" just like the "Draw a Picture of Mohamed Day."
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