Odd That Microsoft Demands Google Take Down Links That Remain In Bing

from the how-about-that... dept

Fri, May 25th 2012 5:06am — Mike Masnick

We just wrote about Google's very cool, new copyright transparency tool, which lets you dig into the details of all the search takedowns that Google gets. As people start to play around with the site, some interesting things are coming to light. Lots of people noticed that the number one copyright holder requesting takedowns from Google search was... Microsoft. While some have suggested this is an attempt by a competitor to worsen Google's search rankings, that's difficult to believe for a variety of reasons. If Microsoft were issuing bogus takedowns, that would certainly come to light pretty quickly.

However, what is interesting is that you can use the new system to play around and notice that Microsoft doesn't always seem to take down from its search engine, Bing, the same links that it orders Google to takedown. As we noted in our original post, there's been plenty of talk suggesting that Google isn't fast enough in taking down things upon DMCA request, but the company claims that they average less than 11 hours -- and considering that they're processing over 1 million takedowns per month (and are checking them by hand), that's pretty impressive. How long does it take Microsoft to take content down?

Well, you would think that if Microsoft is sending a takedown notice to Google to remove a site from its search engine, that it's almost certainly letting Bing know to remove it too, right? Why wouldn't it. But if you do some digging, you can find sites that Microsoft has ordered taken down from Google, but which are still available via Bing. Here's just one example. If you look through Google's transparency report, there's a specific search takedown request that was filed on May 11, so not too long ago. You can see the full ChillingEffects notice here as well. The takedown was sent, on behalf of Microsoft, by a company called Marketly, who appears to send a large number of takedowns, according to the Google data. In this case, Marketly had sent a takedown to Google demanding the removal of a bunch of URLs from its index concerning a variety of XBox 360 games, including DiRT 2. The 20th URL listed goes to a page on TorrentRoom.

Now, if you take that URL and put it into Google and Bing, you get two very different responses. First, there's Google:

Okay. As per the takedown, clearly Google has removed that URL from its index. Now how about Microsoft:

Whoops! There it is. Now, it seems pretty reasonable to assume that if Marketly is sending a takedown to Google to get such a link taken out of its search engine, on behalf of Microsoft, that it quite likely is issuing the same kind of takedown to Microsoft's Bing (hell, you'd perhaps think that Microsoft could just pull the link without a takedown). And yet... the site, which Microsoft supposedly wants to disappear, is gone from Google, but found easily on Bing.

This would suggest that, either Marketly and Microsoft decide to leave up certain infringing content on Microsoft's own search engine while taking it down from Google... or that Microsoft certainly isn't that fast at doing removals. And yet, why don't we hear the people who always bitch about Google complaining about Microsoft?

Of course, the data is also revealing some other interesting "issues" with Microsoft's takedowns. Kurt Opsahl, for example, noticed that Microsoft sent Google a takedown, you can view here, which claims that previous takedown notices, also from Microsoft, are in fact, infringing. This one was also sent by "Marketly" and suggests that they don't do much research to make sure the sites are legitimately infringing before issuing takedowns.

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Filed Under: bing, search, takedown, transparency
Companies: google, marketly, microsoft

82 Comments

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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 5:12am

This is hysterical.
They always are screaming how Google needs to do more, spend more, more more more for them... but one of the largest takedown submitters seems to have forgotten they have their own search engine.
Of course it can't be because they are being slow, so that people will migrate to Bing to find things that were Google wiped. That would be so hypocritical and highlight that the process is a complete and total joke.
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- blaperblaop, 25 May 2012 @ 6:05am
  
  Re:
  The links Microfost wants google to remove are direct links to pirated Microsoft software. If Microsoft wants to leave those links in Bing, that's their business. I would imagine it's to track the people who go to those sites to pirate their software. They would haev to pay google to get this information.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - techflaws.org (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 6:06am
    
    Re: Re:
    Track how?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 8:38am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Without knowing your level of technology understanding I can't begin to know if you are just being funny with your "track how?" statement. But under the assumption that you don't have much knowledge of the HOW of IT's ability to track you on the internet, let me just say that tracking you is extremely easy to do.
      The hard part would be knowing the actual person behind the keyboard, but there is some pretty interesting tech out there and even better stuff on the horizon (using analysis methods) that will with a high degree of certainty allow a company or investigator to fairly accurately tell who is using a computer. Sort of like criminal profiling techniques. Couple that with the fact that your IP can be tracked (even if you try to mask it through a proxy) and one of these days, it will be nothing for companies like Google to determine with relative ease who you are, where you are and where you've been on the internet.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - techflaws.org (profile), 26 May 2012 @ 5:44am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        I'm just wondering how M$ will know if I actually downloaded the software after I clicked on a search link on Bing to a forum that has infringing copies.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Ninja (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 7:38am
    
    Re: Re:
    u mad, bro?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - jupiterkansas (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 7:49am
    
    Re: Re:
    So if they're tracking people who go to pirate sites presumably to sue them (or threaten and settle) wouldn't it be more profitable to make the pirate link rank above the legit links so they can shakedown the pirates?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - That Anonymous Coward (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 7:49am
    
    Re: Re:
    And if they leave those links in Bing it sorta cuts the legs out from them screaming how the internet is robbing them blind and Google only profits by keeping those links available.
    
    Pay Google to get information that Google does not offer...
    
    Searching for information isn't a crime.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 7:57am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Dont you know sharing is wrong
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 8:08am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        there should be a new word for sharing like
        
        bad wrong
        
        or?
        
        Anyone
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 10:25am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        "there should be a new word for sharing like
        
        bad wrong
        
        or?
        
        Anyone"
        
        Badong
        
        Yes. Sharing is Badong
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        The eejit (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:56am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Sharing is Badonkeconk.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Jesse (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 8:40am
    
    If only Bing would just copy Google's search results, life would be so much easier.
    
    Oh wait:
    http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2011/02/google-catches-bing-copying-microsoft-s ays-so-what/
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Michael, 25 May 2012 @ 5:14am

I still don't understand why search engine providers need to police their own site to satisfy the demands of a third-party. Just who owns, operates and pays for the website, anyway?

BTW, can anyone name some good alternative search engines to the Google/Yahoo/Bing trifecta of censorship?
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- Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 5:41am
  
  Re:
  I use this - https://startpage.com/
  
  It's a good secure browser
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 5:41am
    
    Re: Re:
    Sorry, search engine
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 5:55am
  
  Re:
  try duckduck go
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 8:10am
  
  Re:
  duckduckgo.com/about.html
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Bayan Rafeh (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 9:05am
  
  Re:
  Duckduckgo is a pretty decent alternative
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:49am
  
  Re:
  duck duck go
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Tulio, 25 May 2012 @ 8:33pm
  
  Re:
  DuckDuckGo is known to not censor, and not save user data
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Tycoonier, 26 May 2012 @ 12:18am
  
  Google do, but its much easier to satisfy a simple request than go to court about it, eh? In my opinion next time MS ask for them to take down a website they turn round and say "Bugger off and delete the links you have on YOUR site" because why should they comply if MS wont comply.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 26 May 2012 @ 10:47am
  
  Re:
  duckduckgo.com
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Kamari Kim, 26 May 2012 @ 3:27pm
  
  Re:
  duckduckgo seems to be a common one people use
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anas, 27 May 2012 @ 3:55am
  
  Response to: Michael on May 25th, 2012 @ 5:14am
  duckduckgo.com
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Jeroen, 28 May 2012 @ 9:55am
  
  Re:
  Good searchengines are DuckDuckGo (partially based on Bing) and ixquick.com
  
  From a privacy and interface point of view miles ahead
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Digitari, 25 May 2012 @ 5:16am

Re:
Like anyone wants to piss off M$, they will just backdoor your windows and remove your product code(s)...

/s but still............... :)
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jcollake (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 5:23am

tracking
Microsoft can track who clicks on it when found through their search engine ... something you may want to consider. Although they've never gone after end users before, who knows what the future holds.
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- Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 6:15am
  
  Re: tracking
  Although they've never gone after end users before, who knows what the future holds.
  
  Actually... anytime I go to pirate Microsoft software from now on, I'm now going to do both Bing and Google searches. If I can find something that Google has removed due to a complaint by Microsoft, and that same result is still available in Bing, I'll document it and download it.
  
  If Microsoft decides to sue me, I'll point this out. Since it appears that Microsoft's search engine is directing people to downloads of Microsoft's product, it is a reasonable assumption that Microsoft is supporting the distribution of their software via that means.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 26 May 2012 @ 6:20am
    
    Re: Re: tracking
    At which time they'll remove the result and you try and prove that it ever existed.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Greg G, 25 May 2012 @ 6:27am
  
  Re: tracking
  Just because I click on it, doesn't mean I download it.
  
  Therefore, any notices I get about downloading infringing content will be sent back with a picture of a middle finger.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Michael, 25 May 2012 @ 5:27am

Perhaps personalized search engines run from your own computer will be the wave of the future. I recall awhile back something called FileFerret/WebFerret or something along those lines.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 6:21am
  
  Re:
  Google indexes somewhere in the range of 50 billion websites. The bandwidth, storage, and computational resources to do that is massive (to understate it). I'd like you to do the same from your computer.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Michael, 25 May 2012 @ 6:39am
    
    Re: Re:
    "Google indexes somewhere in the range of 50 billion websites. The bandwidth, storage, and computational resources to do that is massive (to understate it). I'd like you to do the same from your computer."
    
    According to what I read, WebFerret is a search robot which you can run from your computer. But maybe it still gets all its results from search engines. I don't know the particulars.
    
    If ever there's going to be decentralized web search functionality, now's the time for willing parties to take a shot at it. We can ill-afford to depend on one or two sites to filter through all content.
    
    BTW, thanks guys for posting those alternative search engines.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Richard (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 6:40am
    
    Re: Re:
    I'd like you to do the same from your computer.
    
    I don't need to do it on my own - we can all gang together...
    
    http://yacy.net/en/
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
artp (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 5:29am

Don't look at the man behind the curtain!
I'm sure that they don't want you peeking at the reports on chillingeffects that tell you exactly what they are trying to do.

Not only is it illegal to look at stuff that they broadcast over the public airwaves, and illegal to point to where you can find it, it is now illegal to know anything about the previous two [CENSORED].

I know it's true. I read it in the DMCA.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 5:31am

could there be some jealousy/favoritism at play here? the old,

dont do what i do, do what i say?
or
what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander?
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- The eejit (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 5:36am
  
  Re:
  In which case, the gander should be shot and cooked.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 26 May 2012 @ 11:00am
    
    Re: Re:
    to the best of my knowledge that line refers to sauces put on already ex-geese.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Chargone (profile), 26 May 2012 @ 11:02am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      whoops. that was me.
      
      the old 'claim your posts' thing is no longer about it seems?
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
William (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 5:46am

Cached links from Google in Bing?
Any possibility this result in Bing was actually an old (pre-takedown) result from Google that was subsequently cached by Bing?

Wouldn't that be rich irony!
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JustSomeGuy, 25 May 2012 @ 6:00am

Err, MS don't have to notify Bing, do they? The fact that Bing simply scrapes Google to get their search results means that, shortly after it disappears from Google, it will also disappear from Bing, no?

:-)
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RigDaMig, 25 May 2012 @ 6:05am

WOw
OK yeah that makes a lot of sense dude.
Privacy-Nerds.tk
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Pixelation, 25 May 2012 @ 6:05am

Permission
I think this is Microsoft's way of giving you permission to download it as long as you do it through Bing.
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- techflaws.org (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 6:08am
  
  Re: Permission
  What else do you expect them to do when not even bribing people with money will make them use your search engine cause it stinks so much? This is a new round of incentives.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 6:45am
    
    Re: Re: Permission
    Nah
    
    I like google, but bing aint that bad a tool, just dont trust the people running it is all
    
    Dont blame the tool
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 6:48am
    
    Re: Re: Permission
    Nah
    
    I like google, not as much used to though, but bing aint that bad a tool, just dont trust the people running it is all
    
    Dont blame the tool, blame the people missusing it
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 6:49am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Permission
      sorries
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 6:57am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Permission
      what if they're all tools?
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - The eejit (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 7:49am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Permission
        Then you have a massive Tool problem. You'll need to get some nails, duct tape and a chihuahua.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
BingBing, 25 May 2012 @ 6:12am

Could be that Bing has so few users that it doesn't really matter to Microsoft whether the links are up there or not.
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- Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 6:20am
  
  Re:
  I know I have never used it.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Overcast (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 6:23am

If Microsoft decides to sue me, I'll point this out. Since it appears that Microsoft's search engine is directing people to downloads of Microsoft's product, it is a reasonable assumption that Microsoft is supporting the distribution of their software via that means.

That's a good point actually... So since an 'official' Microsoft site is in fact pointing us there...
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Overcast (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 6:25am

Err, MS don't have to notify Bing, do they? The fact that Bing simply scrapes Google to get their search results means that, shortly after it disappears from Google, it will also disappear from Bing, no?

Yes, another interesting thought - which would possibly be a violation of Google's terms of use. Assuming they are scraping it - they are indeed using it then.

This might make for a very interesting experiment with these take downs - I wonder if it will still be there in a couple days... on bing.
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- Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 6:56am
  
  Re:
  Ive been using bing more often, as i cant seem to find stuff on google as easy as i seem to remmeber, could be my imagination, could be new search algorithm, or it could be the site take downs, which i doubt, as im not looking for infringing material
  
  Ill tell you one thing, when bing starts to take down the same links that google are forced to take down, and i start noticing the same "empty internet effect" im noticing on google, over these recent times, gues what, i wont be using bing anymore........
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Pitabred (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 6:27am

The cynicism in me starts to wonder if there are nefarious uses of DMCA takedowns by Microsoft, poisoning Google's results so Bing gives better information...
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Mega1987 (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 6:30am

Quote
I qoute Lelouche vi Britannia:

"If the king does not lead, how can he expect his subordinates to follow?"
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 6:36am

And the reason bing wont take them down, is becuase they are fully aware, that they'd lose some of their customers
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Dr. Evil, 25 May 2012 @ 6:44am

@That Anonymous Coward sed "but one of the largest takedown submitters seems to have forgotten they have their own search engine"

what? maybe they are like everyone else who didn't know it existed. quick research... google 'largest takedown submitters google' response 'microsoft' google 'microsoft search engine' response 'bing' ... whats this 'bing' thing? To those around me .. no response... never heard of it, never used it. great links to software, you need to try it! can I get an app for that?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 6:44am

Keep writing these articles that your pirate fan base loves, Mike. Yeah, we can't tell how much you love piracy. It's so impossible to tell. You're hiding it soooo well.
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- Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 7:12am
  
  Re:
  His will be done
  
  Every resource should be diverted untill this "piracy" *spits* is sorted out, then we can concentrate on the smaller, less important things, like murder, no wait, jay walking, yeah jay walking, my bad, jay walking is almost as distructive as murder.....no wait i mean piracy........no wait, no, yeah i mean piracy.....is that what i mean????
  
  And the rrrrrealy small matters such as government corruption, well, theres no harm done, its not hurting anyone in a physical sense..........not unlike piracy
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:08am
  
  Re:
  If you get your way, mother's will no longer teach their kids to share.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
candide08 (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 6:45am

Microsoft slow or non-responsive??
Surely you jest.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 7:02am

By overwhelming Google with take down requests MS is able control its copyrights and knowledge base. MS wants you to only be able to access MS info and product through MS channels. While this tactic in not explicitly illegal it does stink of censorship, collusion, monopoly, and other practices that stifle innovation, fair use, and free markets.
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- Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 7:15am
  
  Re:
  Not to mention microsofts patent*spits* win over motorola and their ban on motorola/android phones, googles newest aquisition
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Ninja (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 7:15am

Quick Microsoft, Bing is infringing your copywrongs! SUE THEM INTO OBLIVION!!!! Oh wait...
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- Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 7:22am
  
  Re:
  Nah they'll probably use the officialy goverment approved method of sabotaging competion
  
  Patents
  
  Microsoft should sue bing and reward themselves millions
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
hasmatt, 25 May 2012 @ 7:20am

Speaks volumes
This is probably the clearest statement from Microsoft that Bing is an irrelevant search engine, except apparently if you're searching for infringing content.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 7:23am

Bing, a pirates haven
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 7:28am

Makes me wonder how many strings microsoft are pulling in the background

I hope none, because if they are, then they've become extremely good at covering their tracks, i mean they've potentially had a long time to practice
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:06am

At 250k takedown requests per week, how long before search engines only list sites related to the old legacy industries.
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BigTuna, 25 May 2012 @ 9:16am

Maybe they know that no one uses Bing so it's not worth the time to remove the links.
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Spock, 25 May 2012 @ 10:03am

Thats BS
The consumer suffers, not getting access to all resources available. Id like to see this type of junk disappear. LoL
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 10:22am

Remember folks sharing is fine, until it becomes to efficient
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Remember..., 25 May 2012 @ 1:57pm

Oh but remember why they're in business???
Anyone remember why they're even in business?? They started by PIRATING and stealing ideas and software themselves! LOL now theyre so against it? Worst type of company on the planet...
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 2:06pm

Microsloth!
(I'm stunned no one's made the joke yet...)
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 3:09pm

+1 point for Linux
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Khaim (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 4:42pm

Huh?
Wait wait wait...

Microsoft owns a search engine?!?
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lrobbo (profile), 26 May 2012 @ 5:27pm

duckduckgo all the way, no page 2 of results - just keep scrolling till you find what you're after. Clean, simple yet useful search engine where the ads aren't unrelentingly served up to you. Google suck but Bing is even worse . . .
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jackn, 11 Feb 2013 @ 5:45am

Its true
I have submitted request to both google and Bing. Bing is nowhere. They are stuck in the ms philosophy, so nothing gets done and they stay stuck in loser land.

I dont think ms want to take results from bing cause the don't have many results to begin with.

Anyway, if you are looking for pirated software, BING is the way to go. Esp if you want android pirated software. Bing seems to high light that because they don't want to show the official google play properties.

Anyway (again), ms is will be gone within a few years.
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kalei murdock, 15 Oct 2013 @ 12:25pm

bing vs. google
id rather use google thats what ive grown up on using. google is the best search engine there is
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- davidbarcomb, 2 Dec 2014 @ 5:52pm
  
  Re: bing vs. google
  Me too
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]