EU Commissioner Reveals He Will Simply Ignore Any Rejection Of ACTA By European Parliament Next Week
from the democracy,-what's-that? dept
The day before the EU's International Trade committee (INTA) recommended that the European Parliament should reject ACTA, the EU commissioner with responsibility for the treaty, Karel De Gucht, had given a speech to its members, trying to win them over. Although it was short, it turns out to be highly revealing about the European Commission's future ACTA strategy. Here's what he said:
If you decide for a negative vote before the European Court rules, let me tell you that the Commission will nonetheless continue to pursue the current procedure before the Court, as we are entitled to do. A negative vote will not stop the proceedings before the Court of Justice.
That is, whatever happens next week, the European Commission will wait for the European Court of Justice (ECJ) to rule on whether ACTA is compatible with EU law. If it is found to be incompatible, De Gucht admits that rather than accept this ruling, the European Commission will try to find some trick to circumvent it:
If the Court questions the conformity of the agreement with the Treaties we will assess at that stage how this can be addressed.
This implicitly confirms that the referral was simply a way to buy time, rather than an honest question about ACTA's legality.
Even assuming the ECJ rules eventually that ACTA is compatible, there could still be a problem if, in the meantime, the European Parliament has voted not to ratify it. Here's what De Gucht says he would do in that case:
First, I would consider proposing some clarifications to ACTA. For example on enforcement in the digital environment. We could look at this in the light of the discussions you will have had on legislative proposals which the European Commission is set to put before the Parliament and the Council. Or for example, we could seek to clarify further the meaning of 'commercial scale'.
Remember that ACTA is now signed, and cannot be altered; so De Gucht is instead trying to fob off European politicians with this vague idea of "clarifications" -- as if more vagueness could somehow rectify the underlying problems of an already dangerously-vague treaty. That's clearly just a sop; here's the real plan:
Second, once we will have identified and discussed these possible clarifications, I would intend to make a second request for consent to the European Parliament. Whether the Parliament will consider it under this legislature or the subsequent one, will be for you to decide.
This is an extraordinary admission. De Gucht says that even if the European Parliament unequivocally refuses to ratify ACTA next week, he will simply ignore that result, and re-submit it at a later date.
In other words, De Gucht won't accept the idea that the European electorate, through their representatives in the European Parliament, might possibly want to reject something they were not allowed to know about until late in the negotiating process, and to which they were unable to provide any meaningful input. In his view, ACTA must be passed, and ACTA will be passed -- whatever anyone else thinks about it.
Let's hope that the members of the European Parliament bear in mind this undisguised contempt for the democratic process in Europe -- and for them -- when it comes to voting on ACTA next week, and any time thereafter it might be re-presented to them under De Gucht's shameful plans.
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Filed Under: acta, ecj, european commission, european union, karel de gucht
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The Movie and Recording Industries Have Spoken!
By which, of course, they also intend that as a privilege reserved for their noble selves. The Rule of Law is ONLY for the peasants.
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Re: The Movie and Recording Industries Have Spoken!
Assuming that's not part of EU law, most of the opinions offered in this article are at best mistaken and at worst outright lies designed to inflame the readers.
Look, I'm not an ACTA shill. I hate the idea of ACTA being questionably passed in the US and hope it never passes in the EU. I hate it because I'm opposed to both the material of the agreement and the underhanded tactics that were used throughout its creation process. I'm just as opposed to using lies and other forms of deception to combat it though. Glyn should have either stuck to the facts or kept his fingers off the keyboard. Articles like this hurt more than help.
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Re: Re: The Movie and Recording Industries Have Spoken!
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Re: Re: The Movie and Recording Industries Have Spoken!
We're taking it to ECJ anyway, so there!
here:
We'll work on a plan to resurrect ACTA
here:
We could set out interpretations to ACTA.(Please ignore the fact that it can't be actually changed.)
and here:
I'm not taking no for an answer. I'll be playing "Are we there yet?" until you give in and ratify ACTA.
That's the problem. He's using attrition to get around our objections, adding layer after layer of procedures and submissions till the MEPs give him what he wants in the hope that he will finally go away.
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Re: The Mighty Buzzard
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Re: Re: The Mighty Buzzard
What exactly are we arguing about here? Glyn quoted from this, then I quoted from this. Will you please quote from this if you're going to argue about it, please?
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Re: Re: The Mighty Buzzard
Basically, this was a fine example of the Hannity Effect. Defined as someone arguing for an issue you agree with but doing it so badly you really wish they'd not said anything at all.
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Re: Re: Re: The Mighty Buzzard
And Hannity tends to either ignore facts or create his own to suit his interpretation.
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Re: Re: Re: The Mighty Buzzard
How that was non-factual at all I don't know, nor did it even have to heave to heavily rely on inferring anything - what was stated was perfectly clear.
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Re: Re: Re: The Mighty Buzzard
"No matter what individual MEPs might think about an existing piece of EU law – and even if all 732 members wanted it changed (which is highly unlikely) – it cannot force a change. The unelected commission has the absolute right of initiative, and can ignore parliament completely."
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Re: Re: Re: The Mighty Buzzard
I know you will probably continue to disagree on this, but I think Glyn called it right on this occasion. De Gucht's tone smacks of arrogance in that statement and if I'd been the one to write it up, I doubt I'd have done any different.
There's no question that Glyn invented the notion of an arrogant commissioner whose paternalism overrides his common sense. De Gucht manages that all by himself in his upbraiding of the naughty children, I mean, MEPs in that statement.
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Re: The Movie and Recording Industries Have Spoken!
Which, by the way, should get these bastards arrested for. I seem to remember that trying to overturn a court ruling by Presidential fiat is a little thing called.... TREASON!
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i dunno, i actually have less problems with feudalism than i do with many modern so called 'democracies' (most of which aren't.)
if corporatism ends up being what it looks like it'd be, it's pretty much using the wost abuses possible in feudalism (mostly as a result of other structures, but feudalism was not set up to counter them) as the default basis of it's design, and labeled as Good things... (note that under feudalism they were the sort of thing that lead to assassinations and revolts...) the main difference is the use of lawyers and money rather than soldiers and steel... though under the Holy Roman Empire, the germanies were often like that too...
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Not unlike Masnick fellow goofy internet medal winner who authored most of the 75 amendments to SOPA for the sole purpose of "buying time". Are you such a rub that you don't understand how politics work?
This is an extraordinary admission. De Gucht says that even if the European Parliament unequivocally refuses to ratify ACTA next week, he will simply ignore that result, and re-submit it at a later date.
Extraordinary, are you kidding? There have been any number of worthwhile bills that have died and were subsequently resurrected. Why is that inherently evil? Or does that depend on whether it's an anti-piracy measure?
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Re:
There's no reason to implement a surveillance state to uphold copyright.
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I think the "worthwhile bills" part got me most thinking this is sarcasm. No one in their right minds would ever think ACTA, SOPA or the TCP is a rational response to anything.
If you can't come to grips with the fact that the peoples interest in IP is more important than corporate interest, and that business models have moved beyond enforcing scarcity in a non-scarce word, then u fail.
There are plenty of smarter people ready to succeed where u fail.
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Re:
Wha?
Do you speak English, boy?
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This is just another example of the "ask for the sky so you can later ask for everything beneath it and sound like you're compromising" strategy.
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Hollywood Pet
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Re:
you just have to avoid falling into the insanity trap that is empire.
democracy ceases to work the moment it is large enough to require you to tack 'representative' onto it to continue functioning.
representative democracy, isn't. it's oligarchy with popularity contests instead of murders.
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There is no such thing as a democracy in the modern world.
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On another matter, there is nothing in the document of which I am aware that prevents the EU from requesting amendments prior to it accession. To suggest this is a case of "you have to accept it exactly as it is" is not, I believe, accurate.
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Re:
You remember incorrectly. It was referred to the court by the European Commission who is in favor of ACTA.
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/communication-breakdown-10000030/acta-sees-official-referral-t o-ecj-over-rights-10026161/
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Re: Re:
As I now understand the matter, the EU Commission petition is currently pending before the court, with the linchpin question being if any of the provisions of the ACTA text are inconsistent with EU Directives.
With my understanding it can be argued that a vote should be held off until the court responds, since its decision may require changes to the text, which changes are not at all an unsurmountable hurdle.
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Re:
It was Monsieur de Gucht who initially proposed seeking an opinion from the Court (though he cited the public protests across Europe in his reasoning).
It should be noted that Mr Moody's article did not criticize this aspect (i.e., waiting for a ruling) of Monsieur de Gucht's statements; it merely reported on it. I read nothing to suggest that he would not be in agreement with you about the reasonableness of waiting for a ruling.
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Re:
Voter: Hello, MP? I'd like the copyright law changed please
MP: Sure thing, taxpayer, one 'death penalty for possible infringement' coming up!
Voter: No, I meant changed so it's less draconion
MP: Oh right, sorry - life sentence for possible infringement is certainly a good idea!
Voter: You misunderstand - less draconian and more suitable for the digital age
MP: Ohh, I get it now! Yeah, sorry. I'll whip that through straight away!
...
Voter: What exactly did you 'whip through'?
MP: Well, I listened to your suggestion of making it less absurd than death penalty for possible infringement (which if you ask me, is perfectly reasonable, or so I'm reliably told by the copyright industries) and how you really wanted it changed, so the proposed law is a fine for a billion pounds a year for your lifetime (and 70 years thereafter) if the MPAA/RIAA can prove you visited a torrent site. See, you don't even have to go to jail, it's a much nicer law, isn't it?
Voter: ....
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Re: Re:
Just think of the numbers the MAFIAA will be quoting due to 'piracy losses': "Dear Representative, this 20-year-old went bankrupt and cost us our $140 billion, can we joinder him to these other 100 million cases?"
On the plus side, the MAFIAA will want to pay for everyone's health insurance to keep them healthier and alive for longer! :)
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This is democracy at work
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Re: This is democracy at work
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Back in elementary school, 20 years ago, we were taught that the first job of the press was to inspect, question, and criticise the government. These days there's virtually a media blackout. Of course, the press is owned by publishers, so there may be a slight conflict of interest, mm? How things have changed...
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Re:
It did create a backlash when a newspaper uncovered that the spindoctors of said party had confidential materials and used them to sell one-sided stories to the press. It has prompted one of the biggest investigations in newer time...
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The executive branch of the EU has far too much power over the legislative process and uses this to push unpopular laws through, discrediting the European project in the eyes of the citizenry.
The current problems around the euro could actually help turning this bill down as the parliament would not want to fuel the current anti-european sentiments among the people.
It is also possible certain member states will ratify it, ignoring the EU completely.
De Gucht has advocated this course of action several times when he was the belgian secretary of foreign affairs but this is now unlikely to happen as his party has lost heavily in the last three elections and his own moral standing in the country has greatly diminished due to allegations of tax evasion.
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I agree that it is going to take the ISPs finally standing up for themselves and their customers to get the cartels to take notice.
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Having said that I loook at the EU and it is just an unbelievable mess with the commission doing whatever the hell they like and frequently going against what is in the interests of the actual people of Europe.
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If the man whose name starts with D, ever thought about plunging a vote of EU-membership on the public, he would have lost his position in a heartbeat...
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Not to worry...
Bah... who needs democracy and legally elected officials?!
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Welcome...
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They've done it before
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Re: They've done it before
My comment at the time, due to previous experiences, was making a bet on how long it would take before it would be reintroduced as a government only vote. Nobody I knew would take the bet. Which I, most likely, would have won since it was only 2 weeks after the time I said they did exactly that.
Europe is not a democracy, it isn't a republic it isn't a federation. It is some form of an oligarchy with institutions like the parliament and the different committees as smokescreen/camouflage to hide this fact
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De gaut
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Checkout comments made by nicojuicy on http://tweakers.net/nieuws/80086/belgische-regering-gaat-impact-acta-bestuderen.html
and on http://tweakers.net/nieuws/80203/europese-hof-gaat-zich-buigen-over-acta.html
Don't forget, Karel De Gucht is being investigated for fraud in Belgium : http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6dafb222-3b9f-11e1-a09a-00144feabdc0.html
I don't understand why he can still stay as EU commissioner. Perhaps it's a requirement, being able to be bought for a position in the EU.
Don't forget, he even LIED to fellow EU politicians, because he wanted them to vote pro and not against ACTA.
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Why is this surprising?
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Good news!
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Re: Good news!
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Re: write him
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The man's contact info
Karel De Gucht
Member of the European Commission
BE-1049 Brussels
Belgium
By mail: Karel.DE-GUCHT@ec.europa.eu
By fax: (+32-02) 29 80899
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good luck convincing him ...
the whole eu commission thing seems not very democratic to me. bodies with legislative power should be elected, not result of party politics. yuck, the whole thing reeks of institutional cronyism and lobbyism
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EP has no real legislative power.
Even in popular brief descripions of EP powers (as in wikipedia) there is "an official statement" that EP is legislative branch followed by very long talkative presentation of "special cases" and "special procedures". It all boils down to simple truth: in any important area EP can make its power by issuing non-binding opinions and talking to media. MEPs may at most decide what will be official european color of their next meeting. Not much more.
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This smells strange..
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Don't they have anything better to do?
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De heer De Gucht
Henri
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Recording Industries Have Spoken!
WWW.nike airmaxonline shop.com
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Re: Recording Industries Have Spoken!
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legislative power
Nike Free
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Dear Representative
w w w.shop cheap soccer jerseys.com
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he shell be..
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EU commission
And judging by the prsent state of the EU and its member countries they are doing a bad job , lack new ideas , and are overpayed .
We have yet to see austerity measures applied to the EU Commission and Parliament , and salaries and expenditure decreased , yet austerity is applied to most EU countries , this is unacceptable.
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Re: EU commission
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