Yet Another (Yes Another) Error In Megaupload Case: Search Warrants Ruled Illegal
from the keystone-kops dept
Early on, we pointed out that the legal theories behind the shutting down of Megaupload and the arrest of its founders were highly questionable. And since then, we've seen that it wasn't just the legal theories that were problematic, but nearly everything about the case, including a bunch of procedural issues. There's been lost evidence and plans to destroy evidence. There have been procedural errors that knocked out a restraining order for being improperly filed, as well as the failure to properly serve the company, which may lead the case against the company (but not the individuals) to be dropped entirely. On top of that, the US has been acting as this is all pretty straightforward, but have already been surprised to discover that the New Zealand government won't simply rubberstamp the extradition.The latest update may create an even bigger headache for the US in its crusade against Kim Dotcom and Megaupload. High Court judge Helen Winkelmann has ruled that the search warrants used to seize Kim Dotcom's property... were illegal. Yeah, that's going to present a problem for the US. She also ruled that the FBI broke the law in taking data from Dotcom's computers out of the country. But the illegal warrants are the big deal here:
She said the search warrants were invalid because they were general warrants which lacked specificity about the offence and the scope of the items to be searched for.In other words, it's not only entirely possible that the government won't even be able to use anything from what they seized in a case, but they may, themselves, be in trouble for breaking the law and violating Dotcom's privacy rights.
Without a valid warrant, police were trespassing and exceeded what they were lawfully authorised to do.
Justice Winkelmann said no one had addressed whether police conduct also amounted to unreasonable search and seizure, but her preliminary view was that it did.
The specific problem? The warrant did not actually state what US laws were supposedly broken -- which is kind of important, especially since this was about a case in the US and a person in New Zealand. If it's not made clear that the warrant is under US laws, then it "would no doubt cause confusion to the subjects of the searches...they would likely read the warrants as authorising a search for evidence of offences as defined by New Zealand law."
So not only do we have a weak case, the whole process in the case has been a complete joke and may mean that the US is unable to use much of the evidence it collected, can't extradite Dotcom and... has little actual basis to move forward with a lawsuit. Honestly, I'm somewhat amazed at the number of mistakes by the feds in such a case. It increasingly feels like they did this because they felt the need to "do something" right after the effort to pass SOPA and PIPA stalled out -- and in their rush to make Hollywood like them again, the feds didn't bother to actually pay much attention to the details. Sometimes it's "creative" to color outside the lines. At other times, it's called cooking up a case on trumped up charges for political reasons.
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Filed Under: errors, fbi, helen winkelmann, illegal search & seizure, kim dotcom, new zealand, procedures
Companies: megaupload
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It seems is not difficult to be and write like a shill.
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Although knowing the usual crowd, it probably doesn't matter either way. Anything to deal with copying will equal theft.
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Re: "Copyright is Theft"
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Copying is not theft, it's copying
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Copyright is not copying. Copyright is a legal concept, copying is an actual actus (physical act)
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It's not even a limited time anymore in reality. If I die before anything created in my lifetime goes into the public domain, that's all the time I could possibly have to use those works, therefore it's removing a fundamental right to copy for each individual's eternity.
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i'm still waiting to see the reasons the Feds use for not giving the HDDs back to Dotcom. considering they managed to clone the drives pretty damn quick to get them to the US but reckon it will 'take too long' to do so Dotcom can have them back or a copy of them, what road to travel next? this has been nothing less than a total conspiracy to shut Megaupload site down, legal or not. that part was achieved. keeping it shut is going to be another thing. i doubt if Dotcom will stop now until he has those responsible, regardless of whether in the government, law enforcement or the entertainment industries, well and truly by the bollocks!!
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Re: Megaupload.
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Despite all of this...
...if it weren't for the fact that he's already got Megabox in the works.
That said, the usual "color commentators" will still deem Dotcom guilty based on his supermodel-type body and the face of file-sharing.
Don't know why they should complain, though. They already got O'Dwyer and Anton Vickerman convicted as scapegoats for extradition...
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These types of people, those that lie for a living, usually give themselves cancer by age 50-55; This type of behavior is just not what the physical representation of ourselves was designed for.
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or is the wishful "wrath of God" Ranting?
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Calling Mike Masnick a coward while hiding behind an Anonymous Coward tag shows who the real coward is. Enjoy your self righteous indignation while it lasts.
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What is so funny is that these "copyright industries" are trying so hard to remove the anonymous nature of the internet because "people can use the anonymity to file share." If they are successful at removing anonymity, what is going to happen to their anonymous shills? Will they finally be exposed or will there be a get-out-of-jail card for them?
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Stop and ignore that's Kim Dotcom and it's related to copyright. Clear your mind. Now check if those were procedural errors. Can you see anything once you take copyright out of the mix?
Anyway, my attempt is futile, you are resorting to personal attacks, which shows us you can't argue against the facts exposed =)
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Re: Frustrated much?
Mike Masnick: Yet Another Error In Megaupload Case! Here are the details!
You: Shut up! That's why!
The level of frustration your post exuded has given me a bit of a boost. Thanks and keep up the good work!
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And just what have you got against Politicians?
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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
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How about procedurally generated fallacy bingo cards? Everyone with a profile gets one at the beginning of the week and they get a prize if they get bingo.
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Also, if you commit a fallacy, you lose a square - I suspect I'm guilty of an occasional strawman - to make us all better debaters.
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These types of people, those that lie for a living, usually give themselves cancer by age 50-55; This type of behavior is just not what the physical representation of ourselves was designed for.
Masnick truly is the biggest pirate apologists on the 'net. The shame that this obvious brings him is definitely cutting his life short. That, plus the obesity.
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Feed the troll nom nom nom.
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"The only evidence anyone needs that Mike Masnick is the slimiest coward in history, is that despite devoting his blog to defending piracy, he STILL is so ashamed of it that he refused to just come right out and admit it.
These types of people, those that lie for a living, usually give themselves cancer by age 50-55; This type of behavior is just not what the physical representation of ourselves was designed for."
-----------------------
"Masnick truly is the biggest pirate apologists on the 'net. The shame that this obvious brings him is definitely cutting his life short. That, plus the obesity."
Wow........quoting yourself.......thats pretty pathetic
I guess if the shoe fits
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LOL! WTF! OMG ROFLMAO! WUT? LOL!
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"Masnick" is singular.
"apologists" is plural.
You didn't pass 4th Grade English, did you, boy?
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This is not a road you want to go down.
If pointing out goverment mistakes and wrongdoing in a case is considered defending an illegal activity then the goverment could and would abuse it's power because any disagreement with it's activities could be met with "How dare you question us you murder/arson/jaywalking lover!"
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First, they were attempting to prove a point. Hey, we're right, and here's why!
Second, they were disproved over and over and were losing SO badly, that they backed away to just very broad statements using cooked up lies they called facts.
Third, after they were disproved and lost even more, they backed away to just trying to discredit Mike. Forget the fact that he's actually only linking to others' reporting and adding his commentary, it is all his fault.
And now, fourth, we're to the point where things are really unraveling, and it's come down to flat-out personal attacks. Also, I like how along the way, the frequency of posts have dropped off the map, as the amount of shills have obviously been dropped significantly, as they've been fired (ESPECIALLY since SOPA/PIPA failed).
It's really been a fun ride. I'm pretty sure the next step is them posting garbled messes of text over and over on every article as a way to try to clog up the comment stream here. I'm not sure what else they could do.
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/scrambled Ghandi
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Apparently you weren't here for the "what happened last week that 'wasn't much to talk about'" troll. Of the 200+ comments of that story, at least half had to have been that guy.
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And that's just one article. The one after it had about a third of the article's comments all made by him. With the rest being from us basically ignoring him (which was great and only ticked him off even more, to the point that others on his side kept trying to take shots at the rest of us "Reported How does that feel? LOL".
Man, that guy's annoying. But you know what, I'm almost positive that it's the same AC who spammed El-P's article and basically took over half the comments by himself in that one too. As well as doing the same in a handful of other articles since. Where he repeats the phrase "How much does the pirate bay pay artists?" and "Where are the contracts from the pirate bay with artists?" Fuck. If there was ever one person's parents who should've without a doubt aborted I can with 100% certainty (on my part and in my opinion) say it should've been his/hers (although it's probably a "his").
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What's laughable is that for all the whining they make about not making enough money all four of them have the luxury to go to various sites and call everyone thieves. And there's four of these guys. Four! Is even spreading hatred and ad hominem so difficult that they need four people to do it?
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Only if you lack creativity and talent.
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Thanks for proving yet again that the industry is even too cheap to pay the people shilling for them on this board. OTOH, given the quality of your drivel I wouldn't pay you either.
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Got it...
Steve Jobs was a liar...
Thanks for clearing that up!
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Re: Huh?
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I disagree. We absolutely need to feed the trolls. How else will we get quality entertainment like this?
For that, I've developed the new Troll Chow, the only one with extra PirateApologist flavour thingy bits. To ensure that your troll has a healthy and shiny coat of fur, remember to feed your troll at least twice a day.
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Like you, boy?
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Just to show those dirty pirates that what the MAFIAA wants, it gets, nevermind laws and stuff.
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Of course this might be one hell of a lesson and Dotcom might bring MU back with mirrors like TPB ;)
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Law Enforcement ain't gonna touch it again unless they can *really* prove willful infringement. That's just asking for a serious ass-whooping at this point.
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If/when it does return, Kim will have learned a few valuable lessons. He would undoubtedly copy (steal!) a few pages from the Pirate Bay playbook and protect the system a bit better. This has nothing to do with supporting or encouraging piracy, just protecting your business from those that seek to destroy it by any means.
Second, it would return with MUCH fanfare and likely become more popular than ever. Again, refer to TPB. Every time a country declares war & tries to block TPB, it's popularity there skyrockets.
Lastly (and perhaps this is just wishful thinking), one would hope that foreign governments will look back on this debacle and begin to show just a bit of restraint when asked to join in on these **AA crusades. With all of the social & economical problems that exist around the world today, is this really the best use of our limited resources?
Again, I'm not predicting that MU will return, just saying that the odds seem to be increasing.
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You are dealing with a closed room - cult mentality with the **AA's and law enforcement. It will happen again.
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Mega SOPA
That also means the start of this international corporation destruction plan began around the same time as the Mega Song fiasco. Mega giving UMG the middle finger in the UMG musicians sense sure did not help but there was also the MegaBox announcement and artists getting a 90% cut would appeal none to the RIAA.
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Perhaps America would be served better by an examination of that department's procedures and people.
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still true and made of fail though.
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Right. Nor is it likely that any of the evidence collected at his mansion during the raid is needed to make the case against Dotcom. This is just more wishful thinking from the world's largest pirate apologist, Mikey Masnick. It's HILARIOUS how dishonest Mike is about the whole thing. I couldn't live a life that's a complete lie like he does, never admitting to the world what the world already knows.
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Yeesh, you're a wierd one, aren't you?
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If you disagree with something Mike said, or with one of the comments, make an argument. No need to be a baby and chuck your toys around.
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The way you said it means that Mike got crushed with a schoolyard.
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So explain to us why it was taken again?
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HA HA
hahahahahahahahaha
But eventually you get to the question.
Once they finally give up on their case, what are the chances of Megaupload suing?
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though he might be able to wrangle suing the individuals responsible for gross failure at doing their jobs properly or something (i don't know the actual law for this)...
he could certainly do a Lot to prevent the current lot of idiots getting back in in the next election (there was some interestingness with donations for an election campaign recently, where the official in question tried to claim he was unaware of what was happening etc, and Dotcom, rather than being a good old boy and helping cover for the guy, simply trotted out the actual proper records of the transactions involved. (He, after all, hadn't actually done anything wrong.))
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Governments pay compensation damages to non-citizens all the time, you just doin't hear about it much due to confidentiality clauses in settlements since people don't like dragging it all through the 'public' court system. But MegaUpload would be perfect to drag it through because of not only the publicity but also the sweet sweet revenge it would give them.
This case is ripe for a quantum of damages claim based on loss of business by MegaUpload from not just the potential earnings but also the IPO that was about to be done.
And as I stated before the USG has assets in New Zealand that could be liquidated by the courts for any damage claim. Not politically good and a total loss of face for the USG but not many people on the planet would not be laughing about it for decades to come, and it wouldn't set a precedent either.
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I would be utterly shocked if this wasn't a ham-handed attempt by the MAFIAA to avert what would (in their eyes) amount to a power legitimization of the "evil pirates": the successful IPO of a company that (in their eyes) is "devoted to infringement".
It would also give said company an immensely expanded power base, and bring any share holders (imagine if Google held a bunch of MU stock) incentive to protect MU, which could turn nasty for the representatives of an "industry" which Google & friends could buy outright.
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Even if the case falls apart and MegaUpload rises from the asses like a Phoenix, the major labels have still managed to once again artificially sustain their lives a bit longer.
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In fact a US court doesn't even have to be involved, since He could sue in any jurisdiction that he has standing too, and that jurisdiction could be New Zealand or Germany or any country where MegaUpload had a presence.
Suing the US Government can be done ANYWHERE! Only US citizens have a problem with Sovereign immunity, happily everyone else in the world doesn't. And then it is up to the USG as respondents to either represent themselves via local counsel or stupidly not attend and have default judgement given.
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HaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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You literally could not make this shit up. It'd be decried as too unrealistic.
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arrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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New Zealand�s National Business Review has a more comprehensive take on this breaking story showing: It also seems that Rick Shera an IP specialist solicitor expects an appeal to the NZ Court of Appeal (wasn't aware that this could be appealed especially since Judge Helen Winkelmann is the Chief High Court Judge though seeing as it's only a one party judgement makes sense.. though still strange) before July 4th.
Even then I myself cannot see much difference especially since the warrants are now confirmed to be general warrants. Using general warrants in first place by police was just blind stupidity, or kowtowing to US DoJ thuggery (or both). Didn't they think anyone would notice? It's one of the first things ever checked by defence solicitors or any solicitor for that matter.
Also it looks like based on my reading of the full ruling [found via http://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/cases/dotcom-ors-v-attorney-general/at_download/fileDecision ] the transfer of the data outside of NZ to the USA was not just illegal it was specifically illegal which could (and I have high hopes here based on NZ judiciary volatile history with the US) create criminal charges against those involved in removing the data from NZ soil (ie: the US DoJ agents themselves). Oh joyousness!
now.. lets see all the trolls and shills say something bad about this, or how it is "just a learning experience". Bwahahahahahahahaha
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Does NOT look good for the newly formed anti-terrorism police force squad that partook and was the lead in this 'raid'.
This will most likely go to appeal, and also is the reason why the Judge wants all parties to come to an arrangement on 4th July before she has to. She really doesn't want to have to sign off on all the relief orders sought by the plaintiffs [at 147]. This is NOT going to end well for any authority.
The MSM has taken this story and run with it, the FBI and the NZ Police are not being portrayed in a good light, if they even can be.
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"I think that really nice house is harboring criminal activity. I'll just get a warrant that says I can bust in and look for anything to support that opinion. Then I'll take anything there that I feel will support my suspicion and arrest the residents until I can examine the evidence for anything I can formally charge them with."
Pretty much that.
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TL;DR = They went fishing, ended up orchard harvesting, and now the fruit of the poisonous tree is all rotten.
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Look at dajaz1, the DoJ kept the case alive waiting and praying that the RIAA could give them the list of infringing material to make the slam dunk case, they got silence from the RIAA... and copies of emails from the "ripped off" labels sending out the songs asking to be put on the blog.
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Lawsuit time?
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After all they 'broke into' Dot Com's home and property and 'looted' it of all the 'evidence' in the form of all the valuables they could find like computer parts and expensive cars/etc.
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the RIAA probably knew this would happen...
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A big cartel talking point is that due process is too hard and therefore should be eliminated. They want to be anointed Judge Dredd. Hollywood vigilantism.
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Like in all other cases where "national security" in the guise of corporate butthurt applies they are trying to in all ways be Judge Dredd. Except I think Stallone actually had a more convincing script.
Why don't you go read the Ruling [ http://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/cases/dotcom-ors-v-attorney-general/at_download/fileDecision ] by the Chief High Court Judge and read all the correspondence that is supplied as embedded exhibits by the FBI, DoJ, NZ authorities and then understand exactly what the USG is trying to pull here.
I'll wait...
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And then a rare compliment emanates from beneath the bridge.
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It seems to bother Madam Justice Helen Winkelmann a whole lot. And I suspect her opinion and knowledge of the relevant law in New Zealand is a whole lot better than yours or mine.
Given the US DoJ's actions here I suspect they may try to appeal on your grounds. Given her status as Chief Justice of New Zealand's High Court I suspect that her ruling will be hard to poke holes into which is the only grounds for appeal in this kind of ruling. She's been around a bit and she definitely knows her law. Good luck to 'em. They're probably going to need it.
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I know what happened...
They were having so much luck investigating and breaking up their own plots, they got over confident when they went after Dotcom thinking the same rules applied in the real world as it did in their imaginary one.
See, this is what happens when the FBI gets caught up with the movies that they get portraid in.
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Give those guys a truckful of Pails...
With the word EPIC written in them.
hahahahahahaha....
what's a matter? did Murphy visited you folks?
*insert more laughs*
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The offices and homes of the officers of the MPAA and the RIAA should be searched and assets seized. The officers should be charged with conspiracy to corrupt and bribe government officials.
Once convicted, the MPAA and RIAA should be dismantled. Anyone connected with these corrupt organizations should be banned from any lobbying efforts. While we are at it, let�s dismantle the TSA and homeland security!
These are the words of our lord, amen.
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Though I'd be amazed totally if that happened in this case, but one can dream.
Last night I dreamt I ate a huge marshmallow and when I woke up in the morning my pillow had mysteriously vanished. ;)
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You must have sympathy the Ameirca Inc. (you know why).
The world must never forget that date and the worst tragedy of all human history (Ameirca Inc. says) and all countries (most of which are much older and therefore dumber than America Inc. tells us it is) must therefore ignore their own sovereignties in order to bend over backwards for anything Ameirca Inc. stormtroopers, copyright cartel, liars and scam artists demand, no matter what trivial things like those counties' own laws may say.
Ameirca Inc. must be right and just no matter what they do, because, well jeez, September 11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clearly, Ameirca Inc. laws was being violated because, well - September 11!!
America Inc. �ber Alles!!
Fucktards.
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She has also ordered that:
* An independent and "appropriately experienced" High Court lawyer conduct the review.
* Copies of electronic data containing only relevant material be provided to US authorities.
* All items deemed not relevant be returned to Mr Dotcom.
* Any copies of relevant data which are provided to the US authorities must also be provided to Mr Dotcom.
* The auditor-general request from the US authorities the "voluntary" return of the clones removed from New Zealand.
Depending on appeal and what occurs on 4th July is when motions of admissibility (and other responses) and procedures will most likely be raised and dealt with.
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This allows bias to be removed, impartiality to be shown and for the court to see 'in camera under seal' evidence that could otherwise be poisoned or at the least tainted by "fishing expeditions".
I understand your confusion, but the basic reason for the 'review' is that a legal warrant was granted. That warrant was not correct though the original court ordered warrant still applies to 'relevant to the matter at hand and in that instance ONLY' material.
If the impartial reviewer finds stuff that was specific (this does not mean smoking gun or exigent evidence instead it means things like data relevant to megaUpload or to payments to Dotcom via mega etc. Not things like "pool data records" (not joking that was one of the seized items). So those irrelevant sources will be removed, given back and the USG forced to NEVER use it on pain of criminal sanctions (i would expect reading the tone of the ruling).
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I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Chambers as that's going on!
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Sounds familiar!
Now the US government thinks they can run roughshod over NZ law, like they do to everyone else, in their "do as I say, not as I do" hypocritical attitude! This time, the NZ Judiciary is proving that they will stand up to the rule of law, unfortunately, the police have become enthralled by the stories from the US authorities!
Good to see the US being shown that their laws don't apply all over the world (how many US citizens think their constitution covers them outside the US anyway?)!
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It was because of alert members of the public rather than the keystone cops that the terrorist agents were caught. Then we gave them back to the French anyhow.
The good news is we did not up and attack Iraq in response, or start a mass hysteria and do away with all our civil rights so we could be molested by minimum wage thugs every time we want to get on a plane.
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This was no rushed effort to do something. No, I think they thought NZ would just roll-over for the US and ship Kim off without so much as a thought. They ignore US law and felt they could do the same internationally. They're trying to extradite O 'Dwyer and they're pushing their laws (ACTA, SOPA) on other countries, why wouldn't they think they could succeed here?
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