GEMA Hikes Venue Performance Royalties 500%, Threatens Germany's Underground Club Scene

from the 'creative'-destruction dept

Mon, Jul 23rd 2012 3:04am — Tim Cushing

GEMA is killing the music industry. Despite needing artists to survive, GEMA seems particularly hellbent on destroying any venue these artists might use to make money in its quest to secure even more money. It takes a certain level of diabolical shortsightedness and greed to "elevate" yourself above the rest of the PROs into "Most Hated" status. Considering other PROs have done such endearing things as shakedown the Girl Scouts and non-profit charities for spare change, GEMA has its work cut out for it.

Maybe it's the famous German industriousness that has provided GEMA with the impetus to turn Youtube into a massive collection of "Sorry, this content is not available in your country" messages. Maybe it's some form of corporate sociopathy that has turned it into a self-destructive monster capable of destroying artists' futures in the name of artists' "rights."

The latest move by GEMA has sparked protests, a claim that most other PROs can't make. GEMA, in its infinite ~~wisdom~~ greed has decided that the underground music scene just isn't paying its fair share. The fix? Raise rates 1,400% and if a few clubs go under because of the hike, well, that's just part of the price of doing business.

GEMA, the organisation responsible for collecting mechanical copyright fees on behalf of some 65,000 artists in Germany, have announced a price hike which could spell the end for some of Berlin's most revered clubs. If the changes go unchallenged, the legendary Berghain - facing a fee hike of 1,400% - will shut after its NYE party this year; the similarly monolithic Watergate is likely to go the same way, claiming its mechanical copyright fees will be increased from €10,000 per year to €200,000.

As is par for the course in instances like these, it's all about "fairness" and "putting money in the pockets of artists." But like every other PRO, GEMA exists to collect fees and redistribute them to the artists, starting at the top. Those most heavily represented by chart success, airplay and radio exposure get the largest chunk, with little to nothing reaching those artists operating outside the mainstream (like, say, THE UNDERGROUND), many of whom may not even be registered with GEMA.

Ostensibly, GEMA is attempting to streamline its fee structure, but doing so in such a way that the most direct beneficiary is GEMA itself. On top of that, an additional levy targets underground clubs, and their lengthy events, nearly exclusively:

In the new scheme, commencing 1st January 2013, the complex existing system of eleven different fee structures is being replaced with just two: monthly charges will be calculated as a percentage of ticket price and relative to the size of the venue. There will, however, be a 50% surcharge if events last longer than five hours, and a similar increase after another three hours. Der Spiegel calculates that, "for an average Berlin club with 410 square meters of space, charging €8 entrance and running two events per week from 10 p.m. until 5. a.m, the price paid to GEMA will rise from the current €14,500 to some €95,000 - an increase of 560%". It seems evident that these plans favour venues (such as bars and gig spaces) with shorter opening times, placing a disproportionate financial burden on clubs. Legendary spots like the Berghain, renowned for the kind of marathon all-weekend sessions largely prohibited in the UK due to stricter licensing, will fare the worst.

GEMA has it all figured out, though. You can nearly hear the condescending smirk wrapped around this statement by Regional Manager Lorenz Schmid.

"The way I see it, [clubs have] been paying far too little in the past. I see no problem for a club manager if he has to pay €1.20 out of €12".

Of course you think it's manageable. You're the one collecting the fees. When you're on that end, it all seems like a drop in the bucket. Those on the other side see it differently. It's another unexpected cost to factor in, and when you're running a club that caters to the underground, you don't really enjoy the sort of profit margins that more mainstream events and entities do. GEMA is killing off some of the few outlets for underground artists in order to further reward the top of the heap. Makes sense. Fortunately, the underground scene isn't taking this lying down.

The Berlin community isn't taking the change lying down: on 25th June, 5,000 gathered to protest outside GEMA's summer party; on the 30th, more than 2,000 clubs across the country stopped the music for five minutes to raise awareness of the new fees... High profile artists including Alec Empire, Blawan, The Black Dog, Mike Paradinas and Steffi have spoken out against GEMA's plans. The German patent office are apparently investigating the legality of the scheme, but they won't reach a decision before the fees come into effect - which may be too late for many of Berlin's clubs.

There is also an online petition, which you can sign here. Given the historical importance of Germany's underground club scene, as well as its contribution to Germany's tourist industry (more than 35% of visitors cite the city's nightlife as a major reason for their visit, according to the Guardian), it would be incredibly disappointing to see it killed off by a rent-seeking agency looking to further reward the top 5% of artists. Maybe this backlash will highlight the stupidity of destroying outlets for artists in the name of "protecting" artists.

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Filed Under: collection society, copyright, fees, gema, germany, rates
Companies: gema

82 Comments

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Alana (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 3:04am

Well. That happened.

...I don't think they understand that "Lower costs = more people able to pay", and "higher costs = fuck you all".
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- Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:40am
  
  Re:
  Yeah you'd think they would wnt to avoiid a sutuation where the collect less money what with being a money collection socity
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:15am
    
    Re: Re:
    Go look up a basic supply and demand price curve and come back. Seriously, this is Economics 101: smaller prices equals more people buying, which can increase revenues despite a smaller per unit cost. Further reading can include how Valve keeps making money hand over fist despite (actually because of) putting games on sale, sometimes for a fifth or even a tenth of what most other publishers charge for their games.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 7:05am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Basic economics break down as soon as piracy-policy enters the competition: When you can gain more money suing people by keeping an extortion price, it is a good business-model, no matter if you ever get any customers through non-court cases or not!
      Public relations are for wankers. True business is only effective it can be used for extortion, bribery and control.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 3:13am

And cue the local band, Paywall Bob and the Techdirt Trolls, who are here to educate us on how the Berlin protest and petition will achieve absolutely nothing, because we're all filthy pirates who underappreciate the poor, victimised collecting agencies (including the one that failed to pay for the song used in their propaganda).

Of course, we know that if the petition achieves absolutely nothing it'll be for different reasons than they imagine.
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- hfbs (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 3:37am
  
  Re:
  But it's for the artists! They should get compensated for their work! Well, not the artists in the underground because fuck you, that's why. Give the money to the artists that don't need it as much!
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Chilly8, 23 Jul 2012 @ 3:20am

I can see now why the ISU does not have major figure skating events in Germany like it did. The music the skaters use would cost the ISU so much in copyright fees, that it makes it not possible. They have not had a Grand Prix event there for years, and now I can see why.
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Zakida Paul (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 3:45am

Dear Music Collection Agencies
How are things like this good for music? How are things like this good for musicians?

Oh, that's right, you are not interested in music or musicians. You are only interested in your own profits and controlling what we listen to, and how/when/where we listen to it.

Up yours.
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- Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:09am
  
  Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
  but yet, you will still illegally download the music, proving to them you want it, but you don't want to pay for it
  
  the more you download and pirate, the more you prove them right
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Zakida Paul (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:14am
    
    Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
    I don't pirate music so please don't make assumptions based on nothing. I spend a small fortune on music so your little rant is bollocks.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - The eejit (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:19am
    
    Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
    However, basic economics dictates that the value you put on something may not be the value that the rest of the people will put on it. See, for example, Steam's Summer Sale Which has proven that lower price points often leads to a massive increase in sales (provided that you also have a positive community reputation).
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - PaulT (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:28am
    
    Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
    I love the fact that you're still incapable of understanding that it's possible be both a paying customer and have a negative opinion of the industry's methods at the same time. Ever wonder why your opinions tend to be shot down here? They're based on false assumptions and always involve personal attacks.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Ninja (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:35am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
      Well, to his credit, I was first a good, paying customer but now I buy nothing that gives money to the MAFIAA (the only thing I can't avoid are the cinemas but I've reduced that to a minimum). Except that he thinks I want all for free which is not the case I'm more than willing to shell $50-$100 a month to have services that deliver the content I want whenever I want.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward With A Unique Writing Style, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:30am
    
    Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
    Proof he downloads music. Present it or shut up.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 10:53am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
      We traced his IP address to 8.8.8.8 so he have proof he is a filthy pirate downloading freetarded scumbag masnick worshiping koolaid drinker.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 11:39am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
        You forgot yellow journalist
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:42am
    
    Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
    I love how you assume everyone who disagrees with you illegally downloads music and is out to get the poor starving artists
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:55am
    
    Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
    of course we have to download the music, GEMA isn't paying any of the cash they extort to the smaller bands so the only way to to hear them is to access the torrents of their work they put online so people can hear them.
    Those people then goto the clubs where they are played or are having a show, then GEMA demands a huge fee "for the artists" and cuts into what the band might have made at their show and sends that money to groups who had nothing to do with that show...
    
    Bad idea one - assuming everyone who dislikes the cartels is a dirty dirty pirate.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:56am
    
    Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
    Hurricane pants! Howzabeen, mate? Why the long absence - did you have to get Daddy Lowery to wipe your ass after you shat your pants finding out that your precious collection societies failed to pay the artist that helped them compose their propoganda? I'd say Lowery missed a spot, though - the spot that makes up your head!
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 8:01am
    
    Re: Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
    but yet, you will still illegally download the music, proving to them you want it, but you don't want to pay for it
    
    True story: the only music I've pirated in the last 6 months is music that is not available via Grooveshark.
    
    Also true story: I pay a monthy subscription of $9 to Grooveshark. This is more than I spent buying CDs in my teenage years before I became a heavy pirate in my early 20s.
    
    the more you download and pirate, the more you prove them right
    
    The more the legacy players try to close off legal services and venues, or keep their music off them, the less money they get.
    
    So, coming from a completely unapologetic self-identifying pirate, this should mean something: I'm perfectly willing to pay money for useful services that are reasonably priced and convenient to me. I'm happy to give money when I know that it will benefit the artists that I care about. But I do not care about your out-dated business models that revel in wastage and inefficiencies to siphon off nearly everything that I pay to end up in the pockets of people who do nothing to benefit the artists I care about, or society as a whole. I will route around those inefficienies every chance I get. So if you want my money, stop being a barrier and start being an enabler.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- gorehound (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:13am
  
  Re: Dear Music Collection Agencies
  +1
  Two big middle fingers in the Air to GEMA.
  
  This is a job for those mysterious German Anarchists.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
That One Guy (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 3:56am

This goes way beyond just 'killing the golden goose', this is more like 'killing the golden goose, smashing all the eggs, and burning everything because someone else might, at some point, end up with part of 'your' share'.
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relghuar, 23 Jul 2012 @ 3:56am

You've missed the point ;-)
Your last sentence is completely wrong!
It actually makes perfect sense, if you just put a couple words in (you surely must have omitted them by mistake).
It should really state:
'Destroying outlets for SOME artists in the name of "protecting" OTHER artists.'
- feel free to put your own definition of SOME (like those that don't bring any money to GEMA, record labels, well actually anyone that matters) and OTHER (those they can best profit from)
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:02am

Hate on the GEMA all you like, but having an illegal shakedown and 'fee collection' organization in its place would be worse.

At least organizations like GEMA have to obey the laws. Yes, maybe those laws are mostly devised by them or their roofing bonds, but still.
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- The eejit (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:20am
  
  Re:
  But this is blatant anti-competitive behaviour, utilising a monopoly position in order to reduce overall competition in an industry that seems to be thriving.
  
  But hey, GEMA is only "for the artists"...at the top.
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  - Dreddsnik, 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:57am
    
    Re: Re:
    Absolutely, Eejit
    
    from the article
    
    "GEMA is killing off some of the few outlets for underground artists in order to further reward the top of the heap. "
    
    This is the PURPOSE of the hike. Eliminate all of the privately owned venues where non-label acts can be seen.
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- Ninja (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:37am
  
  Re:
  I'm fairly sure Hitler was obeying the laws. As the Chinese are. As the North Koreans are.
  
  And.. damn Godwin.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:44am
    
    Re: Re:
    I'm pretty sure Jim Crow followed the segregation laws
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- That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:59am
  
  Re:
  Really? This is your answer?
  That GEMA who enjoys the legally granted position of we say it must be covered so it is, you have to do the effort to prove us wrong... and even if you do we can still screw you.
  
  GEMA who blocked 'Sita Sings the Blues' (HI NINA!) and kept doing so even after Nina provided them with the paperwork showing she had worldwide license to the material?
  
  And the shakedown and "fee collection" game was exported to the UK then the US and is moving to Canada because the courts here are starting to figure out that 4 German Companies operating under 15 names might be lying about their tech... the tech that was thrown out of German courts and go them sued by a partner lawfirm because they hid the flaws to protect their revenue stream.
  
  They obey the laws... maybe the problem was letting them influence how the law was written to benefit only them.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:06am

so, what would happen if all those that are paying fees at the moment, regardless of whether they agree with the amounts or not or where those fees are going, simply turned round at refused to pay? if there was any sort of legal action against any club(s), let the protests increase to the proportions where government had to intervene. if nothing else happened, it would certainly raise awareness of what was happening and how the 'on behalf of artists' was nothing other than complete crap!
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- That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:00am
  
  Re:
  they would be dragged into court one after the other and found gulity and fees piled until they reached the heavens.
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Nick Coghlan (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:06am

Secretly anti-copyright?
The excesses of GEMA are so outlandish, I sometimes wonder if other copyright maximalists want to yell at them "YOU'RE NOT HELPING! PLEASE QUIT SCREWING IT UP FOR THE REST OF US!"
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- That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:01am
  
  Re: Secretly anti-copyright?
  I think the rest of them are staring at them wishing they could have gotten laws passed in their country to give them this kind of power.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:11am

Too bad it's not over 9000. I'd like to see people protest in Dragonball Z gear.
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- Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:45am
  
  Re:
  KA ME HA ME HA!
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Call me Al, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:22am

A new collection society
Is there any scope for the clubs to create their own collections society? Perhaps they can sign on those underground artists not represented by GEMA and specify that the music played is entirely non-GEMA and that they therefore refuse to pay GEMA any money.

Maybe I'm just being naive and hopeful.
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- Ninja (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:30am
  
  Re: A new collection society
  I'm not quite sure but weren't there stories of GEMA claiming they own.. I mean, represent even those not signed with the agency and collecting for those too (as long as the artist is German GEMA owns.. I mean, "represents" him;her automagically).
  
  This collection agency is actually the state of art example of greed, corruption and sense of entitlement.
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- That One Guy (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:06am
  
  Re: A new collection society
  Yes, yes you are.
  
  As far as GEMA is concerned, all music belongs to them, so following that 'logic' it would be completely impossible to play non-GEMA owned music, ever.
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- Stephan (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 8:03am
  
  Re: A new collection society
  Yes, they cold do that. But there is one *big* problem. As it is now, there some kind of "guilty until proven innocent" state regarding GEMA. In other words: The GEMA can contact each and everyone who plays music publicly and demands money until it is proven that the artist(s) played at an event are not GEMA-members. In other words: The clubs have to give prove that each and every song they play isn't one for the GEMA has rights to collect money for. If the clubs can't do that, they're screwed.
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Ninja (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:23am

I clicked the link to sign the petition and my eyes started to bleed. I definitely have issues with German as an idiom. In any case, is there an English version for the tourists and supporters outside Germany?

In any case, GEMA (BREIN, FACT, the MAFIAA) are the main reasons I pirate. I will gladly donate to the artist directly or go to the shows but I refuse to give my money to such rotten pieces of garbage.

I say let GEMA destroy everything. Maybe once copyright is escalated enough to the point that everything is infringing and the creative process is brought to a halt then our wise and honest politicians will actually do something to fix (like scraping everything and starting from zero).
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Zilberfrid (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:36am

Some thoughts
Since these fees for smaller venues will amount to as much a cost as rent, what would you say if your rent went up 500 to 1400%?

I don't have that much rent, just shy of $500 a month, if I'd have to pay $2500 in half a year, I'd be looking for soft spots under the bridge as it's more then I make even before taxes. If I'd have to pay $7000, I'd be stocking up on gasoline to make sure the one destroying me won't have a house for himself as well.

Then there is this: The music played in the underground bars is not from the artist you'll be paying most.

So back to the rent: I will have to pay enough to break my back, it will not be used to actually pay someone who services my house, or owns the ground it is on, or even is in the same area, these will still be poor.
It will be paid to someone who already has enough, and of course to some shady baseball bat bearing types who drive around looking for a toe stepped out of line.
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- Ninja (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:43am
  
  Re: Some thoughts
  If I'd have to pay $7000, I'd be stocking up on gasoline to make sure the one destroying me won't have a house for himself as well.
  
  Where's the like button? I'm all for a democratic process without violence but it seems it's not working these days.
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bob, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:39am

Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
It's not enough for the kids to pirate music and stick it to the content industry. They have to free ride on the police department, the fire department, the military, the people who build roads, the hospital system... and many others.

These underground clubs should move to Somalia where there is no government. They can pirate everything to their heart's content and they won't have to cut any moral corners. Oh wait. They don't want to do that because they want all of the security they get from the government they won't pay to support.
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- Zilberfrid (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:49am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  They are paying. They just object to being put out of business by someone making one of their cost centers five times as expensive.
  They can't even laugh and go to a competitor like with almost every other cost center.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- abc gum, 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:04am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  Just because something is called underground you assume it is illegal? Might you have any facts to support this or is it simply more Bob the Bullshitter vitriol?
  
  Is it easier for you to get comfy with an abusive system if the victims have been accused of skirting their tax liabilities?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:05am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  I don't think the word is being used how you assume.
  
  But enjoy your rant...
  
  So when did Somalia replace paywall in your lexicon?
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- maclypse (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:10am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  I think you are confusing "underground" with "illegal". If they weren't paying for fire department, rent and taxes they probably wouldn't give a fuck about GEMA either. Underground in this case simply means alternative, non-mainstream clubs. It doesn't mean illegal. Durh.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- PaulT (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:20am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  Dude, ffs buy a new dictionary. Whichever one you're using is clearly riddled with errors and making you look absolutely moronic.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Berenerd (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:23am
    
    Re: Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
    "...making you look absolutely moronic"
    
    No, that is just the way he was born.
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- Anonymous Coward With A Unique Writing Style, 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:27am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  First off bob, "underground" does not mean the music is illegal or that the clubs where said music is being played aren't paying taxes. Underground means not mainstream/popular.
  
  Secondly, and perhaps you can explain this stupidity, how does paying higher fees to GEMA translate to not paying to support the government?
  
  Seriously, do you even think before you post? Please answer that one thing.
  
  Also, you are aware kids in general don't pay taxes right. That's not just a German thing. That's happening here in America too. At least until they get their first job at about 17 or so. I mean think about that. There's nothing but "pirates" freeloading on roads and education in schools and hospitals and whatnot that I'm paying for! SOMEBODY PUT A STOP TO THIS IMMEDIATELY! /s
  
  [shakes head in absolute befuddlement at the thinking process, or lack thereof, that bob shows in his comments]
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  - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:26am
    
    Re: Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
    Underground does not means not mainstream/popular.
    
    Underground means below ground level; the basement where rents are cheaper and the bear is cheaper, and the heat is higher because that is where the boiler was/is.
    
    Translating this to regular English it means affordable like affordable housing.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward With A Unique Writing Style, 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:37am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
      Ah yes, very true. But "underground" as it is being used in the article and regarding "underground music" means what I said it does. I guess I should've been a bit more specific, but I figured given that this article is about music that would be readily understood.
      
      And by readily understood I mean by most people, bob being the exception.
      
      I do have one question though. These underground places you speak of, where can I find one? Because I'd like to live somewhere where "the bear is cheaper". Lol.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- silverscarcat (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:34am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  bob... Such a good troll...
  
  Yes you is! Yes you is!
  
  Have a biscuit boy. *Waves biscuit.*
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - ltlw0lf (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 9:52am
    
    Re: Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
    Have a biscuit boy. *Waves biscuit.*
    
    Make sure to use the axe, not the sword. Trolls from Zork tend to destroy swords, but the axe works every time. Trolling for trolls is the best way to rid Zork of the troll infestation, keep up the good work citizen.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:52am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you for your mockery and entertainment - Paywall Bob and the Techidrt Trolls!
  
  Seriously, for someone who claims to be an independent producer all you do here is bitch, bitch and bitch over how people are trying to get less big-name artists paid. But then we all know how you're an independent producer who has a vested interest in supporting John Steele and Evan Stone, and you have a burning hatred for libraries.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:56am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
  
  I think it's time the people over there pulled down the Berlin Paywall the same as they did the one made of brick and stone.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Rikuo (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:01am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  *Tries to process the logic in bob's comment...brain explodes*
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  - PaulT (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:31am
    
    Re: Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
    There's complete logic, or at least there would be if he was using the real definition of the words he's using to launch his attacks. Sadly, he's completely misunderstood those words, and using a totally different definition that has no relationship to what is meant by them, so he just comes off as being ridiculous. Even more so than usual, which is something of a feat, I suppose.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 12:25pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
      It was so far off the paywall, I assumed it was some other buoy!
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- Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:02am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  It's not enough for the publishers to extort artists into signing up with them for ridiculously low fees (if paid at all), they have to free ride on the laws they forced the public as well, and then extort said public with them, taking away the few ways yet-unknown artists have to gain popularity.
  
  These 'rights' clubs should move to Somalia where there is no government. There they can threaten people to their hearts content and they won't have to cut any moral corners. Oh wait. They don't want to do that because somebody might actually stand up to them there.
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- The Groove Tiger (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:33am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  I see... so this GEMA thing is some sort of... BERLIN PAYWALL?
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- Ninja (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 7:18am
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  Oh bob! We missed you! And you made a comeback as clueless as ever.
  
  I hope GEMA makes up for the closed down clubs concerning tax collection. I'm fairly sure the MAFIAA generates pretty much all the tax revenue Governments around the world use to provide their citizens what they need.
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- Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:32pm
  
  Re: Underground clubs-- isn't that just another way to say "tax cheat"?
  ...you forgot to add, "Git off'n my lawn!" and shake your cane at them rotten kids.
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peter, 23 Jul 2012 @ 4:45am

But...but...we are already paying
Since the fans are already paying an entrance fee - a proportion of which goes to the artists - remind me what the club is paying for again? It can't be to pay the artists...'cos they are already getting paid.
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- Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:44am
  
  Re: But...but...we are already paying
  "It can't be to pay the artists...'cos they are already getting paid."
  
  Not exactly correct. The door pays in part for the musicians who are performing that night. The GEMA fees pay the writers of the songs, which are being performed for profit.
  
  Sometimes they are the same, often they are not.
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  - Ninja (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 7:28am
    
    Re: Re: But...but...we are already paying
    I can see your point. But I disagree with this. If anything, the band playing other artist successes should be charged, minimally, with a blanket license that would then go to the songwriters involved (ie: the band should list their usual repertoire to the collection agency and the agency would redirect the earnings to the songwriters proportionally). The club itself could pay for a blanket license to play music from other artists (much like a restaurant or something). Again they'd provide a digital copy of the playlist and the amount paid would be split among the artists (and these would give their part to the songwriter if they want since the club would be paying for the performance of the artist).
    
    Sure not a perfect model but it could work. The fees should be reasonable and vary according to the revenue of each place.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 10:02am
      
      Re: Re: Re: But...but...we are already paying
      Another option is to just close down altogether or go silent rather than bother with pain in the ass licensing. Who wants to bother with more paper work. User fees what ever they are for tend to go up year after year till they become unaffordable for most people. That is my personal experience.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 9:44am
    
    Re: Re: But...but...we are already paying
    which are being performed for
    peanuts and a beer each.
    
    FTFY
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 5:24am

I have a vision. Of a back alley. Silence but for the faint background of cars and people. Sly looking Bruisers on the door. Furtive tourists and locals scoping to make sure there aren't any police or other law enforcers around.
One of them sidles up to the Bruisers... and in a quiet voice "Hey man... I heard that you guys... you know... do ... music? can I come in and listen a while???"

Clearly GEMA are doing this for the children. See how my strawman turns music fans into drug addicts. For The Children!!!
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Liz (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:20am

In a related story, Aesop reports that a cottager and his wife discovered afterwards that a prized goose did not have gold hidden inside.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:24am

I wonder if the artists fighting against this can make a legal case that GEMA is trying to unilaterally distort the market for their own self-interests. The fewer outlets there are for music, the more leverage GEMA has over the artists.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:37am

Simple solution
A venue's GEMA fee's should be split between the artists whose music was played at the venue.

That's it. Simple.
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- Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 7:17am
  
  Re: Simple solution
  No record-company wants to recieve 1$ since it will cost them more to process the transaction. The problem with micro-transactions are the expense of billing for tax purposes/contract obligations/budgets taking more than the micro-transaction will give.
  The arguments against it has to do with the ease of transfer, but in a modern bureaucratic company, the paperwork has to be done to stay in business and that is what is killing the future. Hell for the future is paved with inflexible tax-systems.
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  - The eejit (profile), 23 Jul 2012 @ 8:25am
    
    Re: Re: Simple solution
    No, Hell for the future is having to fill in a GEMA 2 licensing form in order to process a GEMA 4-c(i) Music for Play form that increases yout GEMA-Approved licensing fee (as noted on your GEMA 42c Approval form.)
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    - Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 2:26pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Simple solution
      Which is what it takes for the government to approve the GEMA 2 without the company having to file GEMA 6, GEMA 7, GEMA 8 and GEMA 15-c and we all know what a pain 15-c is. Yuck!
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CaitlinP, 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:40am

We're Sorry
Maybe it's all some sort of massive plan GEMA has; destroy the reputation of the industry, and then everyone will have to debut on the internet!
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anon, 23 Jul 2012 @ 7:05am

Please
Let them do this and more, let them ask radio stations for a 500% increase and all intent outlets to increase prices and all functions to increase there payments by 500%.

The sooner they raise the prices so that nobody can access there music the better. At least then they will go out of business faster than is happening now.

Greed is a wonderful thing for those not consumed by it, as those consumed by greed normally destroy themselves look at any thief and when they get caught, they get caught because the more they steal and the more money they get the more chance they have of being caught.

Lets get copyright sorted , the sooner the better for the artists and consumers.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 7:19am

GEMA better watch or they will suffer the same fate as ASCAP. Go to the malls in America, they are silent except at Christmas. No music, no more. No more Karaoke nights at the bars because of the ASCAP Police or should we say Gestapo. So the rule is now, no entertainment except Original Music. Good for the Indies. Screws the Majors.
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- Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 6:43pm
  
  Re:
  I had no idea that was why the malls & dept stores stopped playing muzak! I thought they stopped blatting that god-awful noise over the loudspeakers because everyone complained about it and no one liked it!
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Mike R., 23 Jul 2012 @ 11:34am

Dammit Mike...
When will you write something that isn't alarmist and full of bil.... oh wait... this wasn't written by Mike? Oh, shit just got serious.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jul 2012 @ 2:51pm

bastards
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Rich Rayne, 6 Aug 2012 @ 6:12am

Sorry ...
... you are going completely wrong. As if being payed by Google. Please answer one question: Why does Google send users into a one-way-street when not having been willing to spend some very little money to gain the right to play that video?
They never to do in no other case.
But here. They don't offer - like normal - on the right side videos to go on with.

They want to frustrate people.
That's misusing customers for own aggressive profit making.
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