Warner Bros. Sues A Ton Of Amazon Resellers For Selling 'Counterfeit' DVDs
from the counterfeit?-resale? dept
The Hollywood Reporter has a story on Warner Bros. filing a lawsuit against a bunch of individuals who use Amazon's marketplace offering to sell DVDs that Warner Bros. claims are counterfeit. The lawsuit is pretty weak on details so far. The THR report speculates on whether or not this is about packaging up downloaded or camcorded movies and pretending they're official.However, if you look at the Amazon profile of the named defendant, Todd Beckham, you see that he has very good reviews. Currently, he has a 4.9 star rating with over 2,000 reviews. If he were selling inferior counterfeit products, you'd think people would complain, because his listings certainly suggest they're new official copies. So buyers seem to feel they're getting what they thought they bought. It's possible that he's just a really good counterfeiter, but THR wonders why WB doesn't just use Amazon's existing internal controls to terminate service for users who sell infringing works.
WB apparently told THR that this isn't a case of going after used product sales (where it would have a tough case, given the first sale doctrine -- and, again, would likely lead to negative reviews, since the offerings don't seem to indicate "used" conditions), but it's unclear how or why the company thinks these DVDs are counterfeit. Again, given the sparseness of detail, it's entirely possible the targets are creating (apparently high quality) counterfeit flicks and selling them. But it would be nice to see a bit more evidence that that's the case, and this isn't just a case of being worried about being undercut by the secondary market. What's a little worrying is that, according to THR, WB is claiming that the sellers are violating its "distribution rights" to the films, not reproduction rights. That raises at least some questions over whether or not the concern is just competition, or actual unauthorized copies. At the very least, this will be a case worth following...
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Filed Under: counterfeit, dvds, lawsuits
Companies: warner bros
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Guessing they setup a sting
I once bought some Baby Einstein discs off Ebay, and unless you were technical enough, you could barely tell they were counterfeit... the ebay seller had excellent feedback - because people were getting what appeared to be great quality DVDs for super-low prices.
I only knew they were counterfeits because:
1) they came in a 30-something disc set that Disney didn't actually offer retail
2) they were not encrypted with CSS
3) they were only single-layer discs
I happened to have some of the legitimate discs already, so I compared them and saw that the official discs were dual-layer, and encrypted.
Now, what did I do? I contacted Disney and asked them what I should do... and they said: "Send us the discs and we'll do the rest"... they didn't offer any sort of compensation, discount, or substitution - and they didn't offer to send them back after they had done what they wanted with them...
So... I decided not to send the discs in the end. I could have ripped them all to my NAS and then sent them, but frankly, it was more trouble than it was worth. I felt like I had gotten what I paid for, and I was satisfied.
Ultimately, the discs were used/abused and I threw most of them away when my kids outgrew them.
So... this seller very likely *could* be selling counterfeits and nobody has noticed until now. Most people can't tell the difference, and frankly, the content owners aren't likely very cooperative with people who discover that they are counterfeits, so... who knows.
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Re: Guessing they setup a sting
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Re: Guessing they setup a sting
I, too, had purchased DVDs many years ago that were excellent counterfeits. I didn't realize they were counterfeits for a long time. In fact, they were so good that I still feel like I got what I paid for. As a consumer, I wasn't ripped off.
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Re:
In my case, I'm thinking that is what happened because when I contacted the ebay seller, they said they didn't know what I was talking about, and offered me a refund if I returned the discs.
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There is a great, and reliable way to avoid 'Counterfeit' DVDs.
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Do you really not use PACER or archive.org to find these things, Mike?
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Re:
I do use both, though when I wrote this article up (a few days ago, but only got around to posting it today), the filing was not available on archive yet. I did link to the RFCExpress version above, which was available, so not sure what you're complaining about.
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No, you're the same guy who tells me to "fuck off and die," so that's not "all you're suggesting." You're just acting like a childish jackass.
As I said: yes, I read the complaint, and no it's not at all as clear as you pretend it is.
Out of curiousity, have you attacked Eriq Gardner from THR with the same asinine claims that he must not have read the complaint? He raised similar questions in his writeup.
Basic stuff.
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Why is it that you'll engage me over stupid stuff like this, but when I want to talk about actual substantive issues you run away? Weird.
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Best guess
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Re: Best guess
" That raises at least some questions over whether or not the concern is just competition, or actual unauthorized copies. At the very least, this will be a case worth following..."
Mike, one moment of reading of the actually complaint will see that they are specific about illegal duplication and conterfeit copies, not trying to shut down a reseller of used product.
Once again, you prove why you aren't a journalist - you rushed to a point of view without collecting any information.
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Re: Re: Best guess
Actually, they're not at all specific, which is why I was asking questions. The complaint talks very generally about counterfeit works, but there's little explanation to support that these works are counterfeit and (again, as stated in the article), no evidence that WB used the tools provided by Amazon to shut down such sites and sales. Hence my questions.
Once again, you prove why you aren't a journalist - you rushed to a point of view without collecting any information.
Well, I've always said I'm not a journalist, and I post my opinion based on the information available. So, er, not sure why you're up in arms about that.
In this case, however, I DID collect as much info as I could, including the complaint, which I found to be vague (as stated in the post). We can argue over how vague it was, but I was surprised at the sort of boilerplate text and the lack of any attempt to mitigate the situation via Amazon's tools.
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How did you miss that?
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But they give no indication that they're sure that's there. It seems like an assumption they're making. Normally, for such a situation, I would expect the filing to show a bit more "proof" of infringement rather than speculation.
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I cannot imagine then going after some guy selling a few of his own used DVDs, can you?
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Oh, really? You can't imagine that?
Warner has never threatened anyone that wishes to do something legal with DVDs that were legally purchased?
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120201/13421717628/redbox-wont-cave-to-warner-bros- demands-will-buy-wb-dvds-other-sources-rent-them.shtml
And no one else has, either?
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111004/02480316193/supreme-court-wont-hear-case-saying -that-you-have-no-first-sale-rights-with-software.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120416/1 6434518517/supreme-court-to-review-if-its-legal-to-resell-book-you-bought-abroad.shtml
http://www.t echdirt.com/articles/20120420/06310918579/video-game-developers-continue-to-ignorantly-attack-used-g ame-sales.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120224/03083617862/how-us-trade-rep-is-trying-to -wipe-out-used-goods-sales-with-secretive-tpp-agreement.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/2012 0224/01525417860/wapos-kaplan-scolded-demanding-300-student-trying-to-sell-one-its-books-ebay.shtml
That was one 2 minute search only from stories in the last year. I think you suffer from an astonishing lack of imagination.
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If only there were some mechanism in place where, after filing a complaint, the plaintiff could "discover" things from the defendant. Sigh.
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Do you believe fictional characters too?
Just because WB says it, it doesn't make it so.
The accusation may only be a bullying tactic. It may be no more real than Gus Fring.
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Re: Re: Best guess
And if you were genuinely interesting in having a discussion about this topic that further educates all readers in a helpful manner, you'd have quoted text from the complaint to actually back up your claim, especially since you're implying it's so easy to find. But you're not interested in that, you're just looking for another weak excuse to have a whine at Mike. Pathetic really.
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A few years back I had an Ebay auction for a set of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" DVDs cancelled. The set was produced by the BBC (not Warner Brothers) and I suspected that had something to do with it (there were identical sets on auction that did not mention their BBC origins in their description). I am quite skeptical that the Beeb was engaged in selling counterfeit DVDs.
I never pursued the issue further; though I briefly considered re-listing the set with a less descriptive description, I ended up just giving the set to a niece for her birthday.
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Which is one way distributors don't sell products where people are willing to buy them, legitimising 'piracy' in the eyes of some.
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Distribution rights
However, since only US and Canada has Region 1, that does sound slightly unlikely. Not only are they both rich countries, I would expect US and Canada to have the same distributor, and hence you can't buy it in one country and sell it in the other.
Another possibility is that they have a contract where they only are allowed to sell to stores, but via Amazon sell directly, thus cutting out one middle hand. But that would be a violation of contract, not selling counterfeit copies.
It is possible that it's not the sellers here that are violating that contract, though, but someone higher up in the distribution chain, the problem being that WB hasn't got a clue who, so they go after the sellers instead.
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This ties together MPAA, RIAA, CNN, and Time Warner.
The Gardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/01/cnn-jim-walton-time-warner
Series: Michael Wolff on media and modern life
So, what's next for CNN?
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They make no reference whatsoever to anything other than the site Amazon as where the infringement takes place. Which leads me to believe that WB doesn't know who's doing the infringement.
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It's easy to have good customer service when you don't pay the artist
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Re: It's easy to have good customer service when you don't pay the artist
"Customer service" means things like shipping out items promptly, communicating with the customer, etc. This isn't any cheaper or easier for pirates to do than for any other retailer.
Also, one of the ways people rate Amazon sellers is whether they get the item that they actually ordered. Unless these were very good counterfeits (with full-color folding inserts and all the packaging), at least some people would complain. It would certainly be enough to net the seller less than 4.9 stars (out of five) with over two thousand buyers.
Of course, that's not proof that he's not selling counterfeits. The whole thing does smell rather fishy, though.
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Customer service is a different cost center.
I've complained about missing materials myself when it turned to be just crappy packaging. Anchor Bay and Mill Creek are especially bad about this. Cookie Jar is pretty cut-rate too.
They industry doesn't make it so easy to distinguish the fake stuff from the real stuff sometimes.
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Re: Customer service is a different cost center.
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Re: Re: It's easy to have good customer service when you don't pay the artist
Like bob's vagina.
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Re: It's easy to have good customer service when you don't pay the artist
Whereas, if I go the legit route, I'm actually more likely to be harmed (Ubisoft did this recently, I'm actually surprised no-one submitted this as a story to Techdirt. Their DRM, Uplay, for games like Assassin's Creed, was found to contain a rootkit plugin for web browsers that could have allowed any website to run any program they wished with administrator credentials). See? Any games from Ubisoft whose copyright I had infringed on had never harmed me, but the ones I did pay for? They're the ones that would leave my computer vulnerable to hacking attempts.
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Re: Re: It's easy to have good customer service when you don't pay the artist
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120730/04291119876/ubisoft-drm-fiasco-allows-any-webs ite-to-take-control-your-computer.shtml
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Biased Alarmist Nonsense
The $5 DVD phenomenon has now even extended to BluRay.
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Red flag: multiple copies
My guess is that WB was targeting sellers with loads of the same title.
We find that the Disney classics are frequent targets of the counterfeiters and they are released as Canadian versions (region 14). It is very hard to detect these, even for us.
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Re: Red flag: multiple copies
disney lost a customer due to their shoddy DRM that stopped legit use.....stupid fuckers....
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I have some of these "illegal" DVDs
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Counterfeits
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amazon deletes feedback complaining of counterfeits
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