Porn Copyright Troll's New Tactic: Maybe Public Humiliation Will Magically Make People Pay

from the well,-that's-one-strategy dept

Thu, Aug 23rd 2012 1:47pm — Mike Masnick

It's no secret that the real strategy of many of the porn companies who have turned into copyright trolls is to use public shame into the game as a way to pressure people into settling. As per usual, these companies almost never follow through on actual lawsuits against people. They do just enough to get ISPs to cough up identifying information and threaten to file the lawsuit. In some cases, the threat of having to fight a lawsuit is enough to make people settle (even if they're innocent). However, often enough, it seems that the companies know that merely the possible embarrassment from publicly claiming someone downloaded porn will make them settle. It seems that one German copyright troll, Urmann and Colleagues (U+C) is skipping the legal middleman, and is just going to start posting information it's collected on people it accuses of infringement directly on its website, hoping this will create incentives to pay up, without the company having to go through any actual legal process. Of course, threatening to expose information about you unless you pay up, sure sounds an awful lot like extortion...

The article also notes that some legal experts believe that this move will violate Germany's (somewhat strict) privacy laws. Either way, U+C claims that it has a list of 150,000 people who it wants to pay up. I actually wonder if a list quite that large actually makes it counterproductive. When you're in the company of so many people, perhaps it's not quite so embarrassing... Of course, given that, perhaps it's not surprising that U+C has indicated elsewhere that it's going to be releasing the info in drips and drabs, and will be targeting those who have the most to lose if it's exposed that they were downloading hardcore porn.

According to comments an Urmann insider made to Wochenblatt, the law firm is planning to target the most vulnerable people first – those with IP addresses registered to churches, police stations and – quite unbelievably – the embassies of Arab countries.

How nice of them.

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Filed Under: copyright troll, germany, humiliation, publicity
Companies: u+c, urmann and colleagues

88 Comments

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sehlat (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:09pm

What's German libel law like?
In the case of a false accusation (and with a list that large, there are sure to be many of them), can they be sued?
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Jamie, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:09pm

So, who are the movers?
It would be interesting to see names of the lawyers and C-level folks doing this.

If you believe this is good business, stand behind your work.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:12pm

German Privacy Laws
" It seems that one German copyright troll, Urmann and Colleagues (U+C) is skipping the legal middleman, and is just going to start posting information it's collected on people it accuses of infringement directly on its website, hoping this will create incentives to pay up, without the company having to go through any actual legal process. Of course, threatening to expose information about you unless you pay up, sure sounds an awful lot like extortion... "

Oh they are breaking FOUR major laws in Germany concerning Blackmail (public humiliation bit), Privacy Rights (Rember how the German Courts reacted to Google's street view), Liable (falsely accusing private citizens is a huge no no), and as Mike Masick rightly concluded it to be, extortion. It's not wide to do any of those 4 in Germany.

In the German Court of Law, minimum charged would amount to 50 years in prison.
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Yawgmoth, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:19pm

This action enrages Anonymous, the Roman Catholic Church, the Jihadists, corrupt cops.... Oh boy, Germany's guna burn!
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Richard (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:20pm

Sauce for the goose
So if a website is used for infringement it means the website should be shut down.

Copyright law is used for extortion - so should copyright be shut down?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:22pm

Seriously?
Public humiliation? Porn is more popular and mainstream than ever. There really is no humiliation associated with it. Even celebrities like Rihanna openly admit to liking porn. Anyone who thinks there is shame or humiliation to be associated with it must be stuck in a 1950s time warp.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:27pm

Re: Seriously?
This may come as a shock to you but people from the 1950s are still alive are differnt people than 20 something pop stars trying to sound cool to teenagers.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:33pm

Re: Re: Seriously?
Which has nothing to do with what I said.
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Rikuo (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:35pm

Re: Seriously?
To be clear, we're not talking just heterosexual porn. More than likely, the people being blackmailed here will be said to have watched hardcore homosexual or transsexual porn, or any of a dozen fetishes that would, at the very least, raise some eyebrows among your peers.
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Rikuo (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
"Anyone who thinks there is shame or humiliation to be associated with it must be stuck in a 1950s time warp."

Yes it does. More than likely, the people stuck in a 1950's time warp would be, you know, people born in the 1950's and thus, have a 50's outlook on the viewing of porn.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:38pm

Re: Re: Seriously?
True. Good point.
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Get off my cyber-lawn! (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:45pm

Re: Seriously?
While YOU may feel there is nothing wrong with porn, many people do (not saying I do, just saying) AND many more of THOSE people prefer to have their "public" image be that of a mainstream, conservative person....finding out about their private penchant for porn, SM, bondage, etc WOULD cause them significant embarassment....although Karma may argue they deserve it.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:46pm

i personally would have thought that going after those that are relied on to bring prosecutions, the police and the courts, is not the best of ideas. hopefully, this will seriously backfire. what is desperately needed is a new law alright. one that exposes this practice for the extortion it is and then stops it dead!
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Donnicton, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:47pm

Re: Re: Seriously?
Yes.

Some examples taken from Ars Technica and Techdirt articles include such interesting titles as "Big Butt Oil Orgy 2", "Teen Anal Nightmare 2", and "Juicy White Anal Booty 4".

They're not simply going for the "tame" stuff, they're going for the ones with the most blatantly embarrassing names that could possibly show up on court documents.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
Well, I guess I could have put it a different way. My point was that porn has become more widely accepted (and more widely available) and liking porn isn't considered as "shameful" as it once was. (Though Rikuo has a good point, one I should have made.)
And let's be honest...is there anyone here who DOESN'T like porn in one form or another? Is there anyone here who doesn't have some porn?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:50pm

I wonder what's to protect Urmann and Colleagues from the coming Fatwa.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
Sorry. I meant, "YOU have a good point, one I should have made".
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
Wait, now, who's replying...never mind.
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Donnicton, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:52pm

The part with Arab embassies is especially scary, because information like that being released can result in murder in those regions.

These extortionists just don't even care.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 2:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
Frack. Can't see those identicon things with this proxy. Rikuo has a good point about certain FORMS of porn. There.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
Dude, I saw all of those. TAN 3 and 4 were not so good, but they got back on track with number 5
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Simple Mind (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:14pm

Re: Re: Seriously?
Good thing my 3 terabytes of porn are all the 'normal' kind. I'm safe from humiliation. Whew!
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:19pm

I THINK this is the same company in Germany that was sending notices to random claiming they owed the phone company money. It was always small amounts and reportedly many people paid them. I have one somewhere in my files, but I am to busy(lazy) to look. I sent them an email that if they could prove I owed money, I would pay. Never heard back from them.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:30pm

So if I'm understanding, they are pulling a 'rightshaven' ....
Operating what they feel is a 'legal' enterprise, while in reality they are pushing the government to recognize that the 'laws' they are using may not be the best things they have on the books.
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Richard (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:30pm

Re:
Extortionists==Honey Badgers
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 3:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
Actually, I would think anyone born in the 50's would have more of a late 60's/early 70's view of porn since they would have been much too young to even think much about porn in the 50's. The parents of the 50's babies would be the one's with the 50's outlook.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 4:04pm

Re:
You mean public execution. It's not murder, if it's legalised by the state.
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Vidiot (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 4:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
This has to be the most polite, civilized exchange I've seen here in recent memory. Gold star for you both. And pass the the watercress sandwiches.
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That One Guy (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 6:29pm

Re: German Privacy Laws
I may be just a titch jaded, but if they end up having to answer for even one of those charges I will be very (pleasantly) surprised.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 6:45pm

Re: German Privacy Laws
Oh, now you're an expert on German law? Funny, it was just yesterday you were lecturing on US Constitutional law.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 6:46pm

Re: German Privacy Laws
Oh, now you're an expert on German law? Funny, it was just yesterday you were lecturing on US Constitutional law.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 6:58pm

Another "industry" that will see its sales go down the drain, just like the "recording industry" did when it dragged thousands of its customers to courts and it got halved because of it.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 7:17pm

Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
Knowing that Germany is one of three(the other two are Italy and the UK) forums that are good for libel lawsuits, one has to wonder if this will not backfire on that "industry".
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 7:23pm

I am still amazed that you can keep tossing up the "make them pay" strawman with a straight face. It's amusing.

Have you considered that they are just tired for making a product that 95% of the people feel no need to pay for? That they feel bad that 5% of people are paying the tab for massive freeloaders?

Maybe a little public shaming will chance a few people's ways of operating.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 7:26pm

IIRC and you'll have to forgive me if I misspeak, this is the Country where companies would hire lawyers to sue on the behalf of corporations who were being ripped off. Take people to court, get the settlements, and then send a tiny check to the corporation.
Then there were the filesharing shakedowns, that evolved into porn shakedowns. One of the largest firms was thrown out of court when it was revealed they tried to hide known flaws in their IP gathering tech, and then a partner lawfirm sued them for being mislead.
They then exported this game to the UK then the US.
But somewhere in the middle of this 2 more fun things happened.
1 - As was covered on Techdirt, a woman who no longer owned a computer was sued for having downloaded a movie and the court ruled on the flimsy evidence she must be guilty because this nice company said so.
2 - There was a company trying to sell of alleged "debts" owed from settlement shakedown letters that people refused to pay to debt collectors pretending they were real debts because they claimed it had to be true without needing a court.

This is what the future looks like for us. A new wave of copyright shakedown has hit the UK, after the ACS:Law fiasco someone started up again. It will get exported here and it will clog the courts with cases of dubious merit all in an attempt to keep porn producers from accepting the business changed. Their losses are not from filesharing but from the simple fact that you can record HD video on a phone, put it on a tubesite and make some serious bank if you can get a following. The days of $60 a tape porn are over, and being well known for suing people interested in your material just makes them look elsewhere for new content... who don't charge or charge much less and offer much more.

The Cartels must be crying themselves sick, seeing the porn companies able to clean up in this market and doing what the years of litigation they tried could not do.

The average porn producer gets around $200-$250ish per settlement... the average settlement is in the $3000-$3500 range. They can not see they are destroying their market completely, but sit back smug and secure in their belief they stuck it to the pirates... and it only destroyed the company faster.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 7:42pm

"According to comments an Urmann insider made to Wochenblatt, the law firm is planning to target the most vulnerable people first � those with IP addresses registered to churches, police stations and � quite unbelievably � the embassies of Arab countries."

How nice of them.

How effective.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 7:54pm

Why are people pirating porn anyway?
There seems to be enough freely available without having to resort to piracy.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:06pm

Well I hope the government gets wind of this and starts doing something about it. I'm sure they are violating multiple laws.
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DC (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:15pm

Re: Re:
It happened in germany, it would be murder.
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DC (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:22pm

Re:
95/5

Please answer honestly, briefly, and without attempting to deflect or distract.

1) Do you think that this amounts to "a little" public shaming, rather than life / career / relationship threatening disclosure?

2) Do you honestly and whole halfheartedly support this approach?

3) Especially considering there is no judicial process involved at all?

4) Since porn is ridiculously profitable, if 100% of the people getting it would pay for it, how much would the price decrease?
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DC (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 8:24pm

Re:
Yes, blackmail can be very effective.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:02pm

Re: Re:
I'll answer this:

Please answer honestly, briefly, and without attempting to deflect or distract.

1) Do you think that this amounts to "a little" public shaming, rather than life / career / relationship threatening disclosure?

It a public shaming. It may have serious consequences. Too bad that those who chose to illegally download didn't think of the consequences. But I suppose if they're adult enough to watch porn, then they're adult enough to deal with the consequences of the illegal behavior.

2) Do you honestly and whole halfheartedly support this approach?

I'm going to interpret the a wholeheartedly. Yes. Piracy apologists have done everything imaginable to prevent the enforcement of IP rights. Now your boss/mother/wife/minister is going to find out you are a law breaker and a serious fan of "Chubby White Boyz Gone Wild"

3) Especially considering there is no judicial process involved at all?
Who cares? The judicial process favors the criminal not the property owner and is not required here.

4) Since porn is ridiculously profitable, if 100% of the people getting it would pay for it, how much would the price decrease?

Who knows? Maybe it would stay the same and you'd get a decent script or production values.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:04pm

Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
"Oh, now you're an expert on German law? Funny, it was just yesterday you were lecturing on US Constitutional law."

No, boy, he's quoting what others have said about German law.
Of course, since you listen only to the little voices in your head, you have no idea what it's like to listen to other people...
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:05pm

Re:
Funny, I heard the same said about Wikileaks- though not from any of you.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:09pm

Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
Oh goody. It's the "boy" guy. You really need some new schtick. Everything you say pretty much look likes it is a cut-and-paste of one of the three comments you have in your repetoir.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:10pm

Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
Oh, I almost forgot... what others?
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:31pm

Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
I was refering to the porn company :-) See the thing is about German Law, and unlike the US, once a ruling has been established it becomes the law. In Germany rules are rules and they must be followed. No matter what.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:36pm

Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
Youre right, I'm not an expert in German law. I extrapolated the interpretation of those laws based upon the actions mentioned in the article and compared them to things that are not only against the law in Germany, but are also very severely punished.
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That One Guy (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:36pm

Quickest way to handle this:
Just let the politicians/judges think that their names might come up, and you could bet this extortion/blackmail scheme would be dealt with in a matter of days.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
Don't stay up too late or the sun will turn you into stone.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:47pm

Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
Here's the problem. It is lawful to publish names associated with lawsuits, those names are a matter of public record.

If the producer of "Oily Asses III" contacted you and said that unless you paid them $5000 they'd tell your boss (and/or the world) that you illegally downloaded it, that is unlawful. However, if the producer files a lawsuit against you for illegally downloading "Oily Asses III", then it is a matter of public record. This is called t-r-a-n-s-p-a-r-e-n-c-y. No hidden legal proceedings. It's all out there in the public where it belongs, right? Something that Techdirtbags only seem to embrace transparency when it suits them.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
That particular AC wasn't trolling or making personal attacks and look at the results :-)

Why stop at watercress sandwiches? DRINKS ALL AROUND!!!!!! ^_^
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
Figures the big pussy would send his Mom out to defend him.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 9:55pm

Re: Re:
But also quite illegal in Germany.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:10pm

Re: Re: Re:
Too bad it's not blackmail. It is simply the cleansing light of transparency shining down to illuminate the judicial process for all to see.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
First: I see there is no real reason to actually try to talk to you as you blatantly ignore the obvious. Also, you are using personal attacks trying to rebuttal mine and others' points. So I'm really not inclined to talk to you until you correct those behaviors.

Second: Notice I knew what you were by your comments...a troll. You do nothing but harrass people until they see as you do. Take a personal tip from me, and don't troll and maybe you could learn how to get a proper counterpoint.

Please keep in mind that I am only trying to help you make better at your arguments than your usual name calling. Name calling never works in a well thought put argument. If you know the answer, answer it the best to your knowledge. As it has been demonstrated below, an AC had stated his opinion without name calling and calling people out. People were inclined to help him clarify his statement for better understanding all around.

So if you really want to make a proper rebuttal, do it, but please do it without name calling (it is quite useless), and it only gets you labeled as a troll depending on how you use your name calling.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
One, I'm not related to that AC

Two:

First: I see there is no real reason to actually try to talk to you as you blatantly ignore the obvious. Also, you are using personal attacks trying to rebuttal mine and others' points. So I'm really not inclined to talk to you until you correct those behaviors.

Second: Notice I knew what you were by your comments...a troll. You do nothing but harrass people until they see as you do. Take a personal tip from me, and don't troll and maybe you could learn how to get a proper counterpoint.

Please keep in mind that I am only trying to help you make better at your arguments than your usual name calling. Name calling never works in a well thought put argument. If you know the answer, answer it the best to your knowledge. As it has been demonstrated below, an AC had stated his opinion without name calling and calling people out. People were inclined to help him clarify his statement for better understanding all around.

So if you really want to make a proper rebuttal, do it, but please do it without name calling (it is quite useless), and it only gets you labeled as a troll depending on how you use your name calling.
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Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 10:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
It is considered blackmail in Germany.

And:

First: I see there is no real reason to actually try to talk to you as you blatantly ignore the obvious. Also, you are using personal attacks trying to rebuttal mine and others' points. So I'm really not inclined to talk to you until you correct those behaviors.

Second: Notice I knew what you were by your comments...a troll. You do nothing but harrass people until they see as you do. Take a personal tip from me, and don't troll and maybe you could learn how to get a proper counterpoint.

Please keep in mind that I am only trying to help you make better at your arguments than your usual name calling. Name calling never works in a well thought out argument. If you know the answer, answer it the best to your knowledge. As it has been demonstrated below, an AC had stated his opinion without name calling and calling people out. People were inclined to help him clarify his statement for better understanding all around.

So if you really want to make a proper rebuttal, do it, but please do it without name calling (it is quite useless), and it only gets you labeled as a troll depending on how you use your name calling.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:27pm

Why do you think they would name porn with such fucked up names lol.. So they can really fuck you over "I know I know" with the public if it does go to court.

EX -
Bangaroo Jack
Ball Street Spray it Forward
Beaverly Hills Cock
Cum And Cummer
Good Will Cunting
Die Hard-on
Men in Black Women
The Passion 2: Christ's Second Cumming
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 23 Aug 2012 @ 11:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
U+C is holding a list that will be published if they loose their case....Extortion and Blackmail...

"(U+C) is skipping the legal middleman, and is just going to start posting information it's collected on people it accuses of infringement directly on its website"

Libel and Privacy

I'm pretty sure my thought process conveys common sense.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 12:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
If this had been any other topic and context, I'd propose to all go see a movie together to celebrate.
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techflaws (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 12:48am

Re:
Maybe a little public shaming will chance a few people's ways of operating.

Right, they'll probably all **** off to Youporn exclusively from then on.
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Goyo, 24 Aug 2012 @ 1:09am

Re:
"Maybe a little public shaming will chance[sic] a few people's ways of operating."

Do you mean the public shaming will make them pay? Oh, wait... that's a strawman.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 1:12am

Re: What's German libel law like?
Germany along with the UK and Italy have some of the most abusive/frightening libel laws anywhere.

It sure sounds like those people could get in a lot of trouble using that tactic.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 1:18am

Re:
Then stop doing business at all dude because I have yet a percentage larger than 1% of companies that actually corner a market, most don't even reach 1% of market penetration let alone 5%.

Most people instead of paying a chef to cook for them just cook themselves.

Besides how do you know that 95% don't pay?
Are you psychic now?
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Goyo, 24 Aug 2012 @ 1:18am

Re: Why are people pirating porn anyway?
Because, as you surely know, "piracy" is not easy to tell. I mean, people download lots of porn files from random sources. If you think they know (or care) whether they are "pireted" or just "free" you're badly wrong.
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Ninja (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 4:30am

Re:
The Passion 2: Christ's Second Cumming

This one is new. I'm fairly sure baby Jesus cried blood tears when this title was though. And several kittens died in despair.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 6:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
Don't care for it, don't own any, don't download it.But you can if you want and I won't think less of you.
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matthias, 24 Aug 2012 @ 7:01am

how this is possible...
I think you should add some more information about how this threat is legally possible in Germany:
U+C most probably don't plan to claim that someone, say Max Mustermann, has illegally downloaded porn, all they are going to do is to publish a list of their legal opponents. But as this law firm has specialized in copyright infringement and its clients mainly are porn companies, you can guess what it means that Max Mustermann is their opponent...
Publishing a list of legal opponents has been ruled to be allowed for self-advertising - using this as a threat against opponents has never been intended by politicians or courts.
I think this makes it even harder to fight against false accusations - because even if a court rules that Max Mustermann is innocent, Max Mustermann still has been a legal opponent of U+C.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 7:05am

Re: Re:
Your answers:

1) cause and effect. Don't pirate gay porn, and you won't get outed.

2) why not? See point 1.

3) There is no legal right to pirate. What's your point?

4) Porn is remarkably NOT profitable, piracy has all but killed the industry. Production of porn is was down from what it was, because there is no money left in it.

Mike hates point 4. Piracy decimated porn, and has left it withering even on the internet. You cannot sell what people can get for free.
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WysiWyg (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 7:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
HAVE they filed an actual lawsuit though? Isn't the common tactic to NOT file any actual lawsuit against any individual, since that would be to costly?

I think that is going to be a big clincher, whether or not there actually is an ongoing lawsuit.

Also, do you know for a fact that is how it works in Germany? I have no idea, but it would be a bit ironic if you don't have any more insight into German law than the previous poster.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 7:08am

If they will name all the politicians,judges,clergymen,top police officials and any royalty types,then I will enthusiastically support this.
It will be hilarious to watch them all squirm.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 7:16am

Re: Re: Re:
I have no data to back me up, but from the tons of free legal sources of porn out there, it's my gut feeling that the decimation of the industry has - at least to some not-insignificant-extent - been at the hands of amateur porn. Another source of problems probably comes at hands of the porn companies' own marketing efforts. Let's face it, the only way to market this product is to give out free samples. Collect enough free samples, and you no longer need the product. Ever eat lunch at a Costco before?
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 7:20am

Re: Re: Re:
3) Especially considering there is no judicial process involved at all?
Who cares? The judicial process favors the criminal not the property owner and is not required here.

That is one of the most terrifying statements I've seen in a long time.
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monkyyy, 24 Aug 2012 @ 7:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
Oh, now you're an expert on German law? FUNNY!!!!!!!!
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monkyyy, 24 Aug 2012 @ 7:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
this post SUCKS ******** **** *** *** **** ** * ** * ** * ************** ** * * * * ** ********** if ****** *** or***** RAWR!!1111!!!!one!!!!@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@!!!!!!!!

:3 there even it out
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Wally (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 7:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seriously?
Hello proxy/sock puppet AC

First: I see there is no real reason to actually try to talk to you as you blatantly ignore the obvious. Also, you are using personal attacks trying to rebuttal mine and others' points. So I'm really not inclined to talk to you until you correct those behaviors.

Second: Notice I knew what you were by your comments...a troll. You do nothing but harrass people until they see as you do. Take a personal tip from me, and don't troll and maybe you could learn how to get a proper counterpoint.

Please keep in mind that I am only trying to help you make better at your arguments than your usual name calling. Derp Trolling never works in a well thought out argument like this. If you know the answer, answer it the best to your knowledge. As it has been demonstrated below, an AC had stated his opinion without name calling and calling people out. People were inclined to help him clarify his statement for better understanding all around.

So if you really want to make a comment don't derp troll. It makes you easier to point to as a butthurt troll.
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anon, 24 Aug 2012 @ 8:02am

Extortion
I see that nobody has realised what is happening yet, everyone knows it is illegal to do what they say they are going to do, they have lawyers that will have told them it is not possible and that they will probably end up in jail if they release even one persons details.
This is just a weak threat to all of those they are sending letters to, it is something they hope will encourage people to pay up without a fight or even any court interference. If this is said in a letter to just one of those accused they would be in court so fast there heads would spin, so they release this story and use the public outcry to make those people they are conning pay up and Techdirt and many other sites are helping them by publishing this story.
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Wally (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 8:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
I admit that the sentencing in years of prison time was pulled out of my arse there, but I did ask a friend about it whose father recently gained US citizenship to the US. He told me (in his heavy German accent) that blackmail in Germany, is very illegal.

As for the AC's tramspersncy argument....in spite of the fact it can be revealed to the public is irrelevant because the porn company won't release it if they get what they want....hence extortion and blackmail. I am no expert, but I do know that extortion blackmail is illegal in Germany and is severely punished.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 8:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If you're going to copy and paste a long, belabored "response to trolls" everywhere in the comment thread, could you at least proofread it first?
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Duke (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 8:13am

Re: What's German libel law like?
The BBC are reporting that this is probably legal due to a German law that allows lawyers to name people accused of unlawful activity by their clients.
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Payfor View, 24 Aug 2012 @ 8:25am

Inspect Porn
Here is a $50,000 idea for one of you entrepreneurs (did I get that spelled correctly?) out there. As I was sitting in my yard, watching box elder bugs (there are insects, folks) hook up (back-to-back... ususally) and vigorously pursue what must be ecstacy for bugs, I was thinking that if people actually paid $1 a click on some guys web site to watch a a cartoon cow moo, then surely these same folks would watch the work of an enterprising young drop-out with an average video cam making short clips of insects going about the propagation of their kind. Just a thought.
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Wally (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 8:29am

Re: Re: Re: Re: German Privacy Laws
Um, just out of curiosity, what did I do to deserve being trolled by you?
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Thomas (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 9:57am

Would this not
be slander? What if the accusation is false? an IP address is not proof that an individual copied/downloaded something.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Aug 2012 @ 10:44am

You know what is funny?

If Julian "I didn't rape those girls" Assange published this list on Wikileaks as some sort of secret document, you would be praising him for it. You would even praise him if he used the existance of the document to blackmail people on the list to donating to the cause or otherwise unblocking funding - say he found the christian CEO of a credit card or payment company on that list.

You guys are remarkably two faced about these things.
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WysiWyg (profile), 24 Aug 2012 @ 11:05am

Re:
Care to back up that confusing bit of... ehm, logic? What makes you say that?

Praising a person/organization when they do things you approve of is not evidence to say that you would praise them if they did something you don't approve of. That's just...
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Dave, 24 Aug 2012 @ 11:07am

Deja vu?
Two things to say: ACS Law in the UK and speculative invoicing. Need I add more?
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Wally (profile), 25 Aug 2012 @ 2:45pm

Re:
The difference is that Assange hasn't threatened to release lists of names that embarrass people if he doesn't get what he wants. He just releases documents from government documents. Although a lot of the stuff he has released is questionable on whether he should have let it be, he hadn't dangled it in front of the politicians' faces to gain a profit or to recover from a poor business model.
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