Charles Carreon Still Dishing Out Threats & Intimidation... While Hiding From Court Summons

Too Much Free Time

from the keep-digging-carreon dept

Thu, Oct 18th 2012 12:27pm — Mike Masnick

Remember that rule number one of the Carreon Effect is that, when someone calls you out on your ridiculous position... just keep digging. And the man behind the effect apparently would like to make sure that his name really does set the gold standard in "just keep digging." Yes, that's right -- the man, the myth, the sheer wackiness of Charles Carreon is back. Except, that is, if you're trying to serve him for bogus threats against you. You may remember Charles Carreon for his famous lawsuit against the Oatmeal and a variety of unrelated other organizations, followed up by threats against parody accounts (doubly amusing, given Carreon's own fondness for parodying others).

While Carreon eventually dropped his lawsuit against Matthew Inman at The Oatmeal, it wasn't before one of the parody bloggers he had threatened filed for declaratory judgment, claiming that his blogging was legal. Carreon quite clearly was threatening the blogger, and had even suggested that he would wait until the attention died down to sue -- which clearly gives the blogger grounds for seeking a declaratory judgment. That, of course, is a separate lawsuit, initiated by the blogger, so Carreon can't just drop it. But what he can do, apparently, is everything possible to avoid being served. The judge's own summary of the situation (via Popehat):

Plaintiff seeks a declaratory judgment that his satirical website does not infringe the trademark defendant has in his own name. Prior to filing a complaint, plaintiff's counsel was in contact with defendant via email. After filing the complaint, defendant and his wife publicly discussed the pending litigation. Plaintiff's counsel mailed defendant a request for waiver of summons to his address in Tucson, Arizona, which defendant did not execute. Instead, the entire envelope was mailed back to plaintiff, unopened, inside a second envelope. This same sequence of events was repeated after plaintiff filed an amended complaint. At plaintiff's request, the Court issued a summons, and plaintiff hired an Arizona process service company to serve the summons at the residential address. On the first visit, the server announced himself and was told “No thank you,” and left with the papers. On the second and third visits, nobody answered. The process service company then tried to serve the summons and complaint by certified mail, but the package was never claimed.

Of course, during this time that Carreon was hiding out from officially being served, it didn't stop him from continuing to find ways to intimidate the blogger in question. Again, from the judge:

During this time, defendant contacted the general counsel of Walgreens, plaintiff's employer, stating plaintiff had used Walgreens' computer equipment or internet access to create the allegedly actionable website, and implying he might make Walgreens a party to the litigation under a theory of respondeat superior. The demand letter sent to Walgreens contained the same Tucson, Arizona address and email address that plaintiff had been using to attempt service on defendant.

Following that, the blogger's lawyers once again emailed Carreon a copy of the summons, complaint and amended complaint -- including sending it to the address Carreon used to threaten Walgreens... and Carreon ignored that too.

Unfortunately, Carreon seems to be working the system effectively. Because even with all of these obvious attempts to avoid having to actually deal with the lawsuit against him, the judge is asking the blogger and his lawyers to "try harder:"

The process server could easily wait outside the fence for defendant to enter or leave the residence and could then leave the papers in the defendant's presence. Alternatively, the process server may choose to wait near a location defendant is thought to frequent, such as an office or grocery store. If the defendant still refuses to accept the papers, it will be considered sufficient if the “server is in close proximity to the defendant, clearly communicates intent to serve court documents, and makes reasonable efforts to leave the papers with the defendant.”

And with that, the judge refuses to allow the emails to constitute proper service. Public Citizen, who is handling the case pro bono, is asking for donations to help pay for hiring someone to "sit outside Carreon's house until Carreon appears," noting that he's "carrying through on his promise to run up the cost of litigation."

It's unclear what Carreon thinks he's accomplishing here, as he's going to have to face these charges eventually. But, as once again seems clear, his response is to... just keep digging.

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Filed Under: carreon effect, charles carreon, declaratory judgment, hiding, parody, process server

64 Comments

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John Fenderson (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 12:43pm

Nuts
I strongly hesitate to diagnose mental conditions, as I'm not a doctor, don't know Carreon, and, well, there's the whole pot & kettle thing.

But at this point, I'm inclined to think that he is actually unbalanced.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 12:44pm

Honestly the judge should be pretty annoyed this guy is pretty much avoiding the law.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 12:47pm

I thought that if you wanted to get off on the insanity defense, you had to show how crazy you are after you get into court.
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Thomas (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 12:54pm

just goes to show
that a crooked lawyer knows how to game the system and get away with pretty much anything. This is typical of the U.S. "justice" system - you can make all the threats you want and nothing will come of it.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 12:57pm

Re: Nuts
"But at this point, I'm inclined to think that he is actually unbalanced."

Didn't one of his lawyer buddies suggest as much? Something along the lines of "yeah he's normally a good dude go easy on him" and then changing his tune to "holy crap this guy went batshit insane" when learning the details?

(Fake edit: Yeah I just looked it up, the lawyer in question is none other than Marc Randazza himself. His piece includes the telling quote "This will not end well for him. I just want to say that I tried. I really tried to get him to come to his senses. I tried really, really hard.".)
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Chris-Mouse (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 12:58pm

Re: just goes to show
The United States doesn't have a justice system. It has a legal system. Meeting the letter of the law is seen as much more important than meeting the spirit of the law.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:07pm

Geez. THIS is the kind of man that is responsible for all the lawyer jokes there are, and by default is the kind of attorney that gives other attorneys a bad name (and a sense of shame at having to be lumped in with attorneys like this).

I'd say what I'm actually thinking about all this, but I'm a bit hesitant to. I wouldn't want to get Tara to start making legal threats against me and then accusing me of being a Nazi and whatnot. Like the last time she was on this site making similar claims.

I'd feel sorry for them, but they certainly do bring it upon themselves. As such I don't.
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out_of_the_blue, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:09pm

Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Because has no US address (even though said was using US servers)? I didn't bother reading the legalisms closely, but looks to me like same dodging, only now you're against this time-honored tradition.

[What I call the "Masnick dodge" is, in brief, to promise five years ago to soon explain how "sunk (or fixed) costs" could always be recovered, and ever since to only ignore or divert or bluster when questioned on the topic. See Mike's "can't compete" piece; search for "recovered", should get you to his post about middle of the many comments, if I recall accurately.]
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:10pm

Re:
This is the streamlined version. In the future it will just be in your profile so you won't even need a lawyer.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:15pm

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Not doing business in the US is a rather staid way of not being in the jurisdiction. More dignified than trying to escape out the back window.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:18pm

Re: Re: Nuts
It's hard to reason with the unreasonable.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:25pm

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
"I didn't bother reading the legalisms closely"

That is very much obvious.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:30pm

Re:
Sad thing is, this kind of behavior will attract a certain clientele and this bat shit crazy sumbitch will be flush with business.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:33pm

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Hey there, ootb. Welcome to the Internet! You may wish to know about this lovely feature we have here in the present called a "hyperlink". Allow me to demonstrate how they work. Easy!

While we're talking about that comment, I fail to see where it says sunk costs can always be recovered, or where Mike blusters, ignores, or diverts. All I see are answers.
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Baldaur Regis (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:35pm

Re:
You have to admit, though, that another episode of The Carreon Family Crazy Hour is just the thing to brighten up a rainy afternoon.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:35pm

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Ah well, I give. You stupid fuck, go away and die a horrible cancer riddled death.

I hate myself already for stooping to name calling and death wishes but you my friend are as bat shit crazy as Carreon.

Again; get over being called out as a douche as you very obviously are the king of the douches. Carreon is a close second but you take the cake for trollish behavior brought on by butthurt. I bet your ass bleeds continually.
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out_of_the_mind, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:35pm

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Jibber jabber, jabber jibber, jibber Mike this, jabber Mike that.

Sorry, did I say something again?

Boooooring... yet again.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:35pm

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Carreon lives and works in the US.
Different from Dotcom who lives and works overseas, boy.
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Darth Vader, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:41pm

Re: Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
"I hate myself already for stooping to name calling and death wishes"

Come to the dark side AC. [whispers]Dark side AC.
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Chosen Reject (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:47pm

He's there at the home, he just can't answer the door because he's dug down so far. Perhaps he's trying to follow Professor Von Hardwigg? I would have started in Iceland, but Tuscon is nice this time of year I suppose.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:47pm

Re: Re:
[grins] True. I was having an off day so far and this got a laugh and a smirk out of me.

So yeah, this kind of crazy does have quite the entertainment value.
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Rikuo (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:50pm

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Yes, because Megaupload has no US offices, no US address. This article is dealing with people living and working entirely within the US. So the Megaupload case has absolutely nothing in common with this story.

Try harder...no wait, don't try at all. You just completely fail. At everything.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 1:51pm

seems like the judge is as big a tosser as Carreon. i wonder how long this fiasco is going to be endorsed by the court?
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Bengie, 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:18pm

WTF?
"No thank you"?

Around here, you get served by a Sheriff. If they can tell you're in there, you damn well better answer.

Not to mention that receiving the mail in person is not enough, it must also be signed and the signing must be witnessed by a sheriff.
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F!, 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:20pm

*singing*
Carreon, my wayward son.
Will there be peace when you are done?
Lay your weary lies to rest,
Don't you try no more.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:24pm

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Twat
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Dark Helmet (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Get the fuck out of here, Vader. I got dibs on Techdirt!
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:33pm

If I lived closer, I'd volunteer to sit outside this guy's place for a day. Just bring a nice book, laptop or something else to do. It'd be worth it just so that we could move on to the next step and see what kind of wacky stuff he'd start pulling in court. Maybe I should buy some shares in a popcorn company.
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Atkray (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:34pm

Re: WTF?
Yeah I wondered about the process server ring the doorbell and leaving. When I got out of high school I worked serving papers in California. I had to make sure of 2 things 1 the person would self identify, and 2 that I left the papers. Mostly it was ring the doorbell and ask are you _______? If I got an affirmative I handed them the papers and announced they had been served. If they wouldn't take them I was instructed to let them fall on their feet.

The hardest part was to get them to self identify, wearing brown clothes and carrying a metal clipboard worked pretty good for that though.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:35pm

Re: just goes to show
that a crooked lawyer knows how to game the system and get away with pretty much anything. This is typical of the U.S. "justice" system - you can make all the threats you want and nothing will come of it.

It seems that this is the justice system, through the Judge, letting the game continue because the defendant is a lawyer. How long would the judge say "try harder" if the defendant wasn't a lawyer?
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Jeff_Vader_runs_the_Deathstar? (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
You'll still need a tray....
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Colin, 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:44pm

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
[What I call the "Masnick dodge" is, in brief, to promise five years ago to soon explain how "sunk (or fixed) costs" could always be recovered, and ever since to only ignore or divert or bluster when questioned on the topic. See Mike's "can't compete" piece; search for "recovered", should get you to his post about middle of the many comments, if I recall accurately.]

At least you don't hold a grudge and have healthily gotten over it. That's all that matters.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:54pm

Oh man! I would love to be the person serving this jackass rofl!
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Lurker Keith, 18 Oct 2012 @ 2:55pm

Part XII already?
Just the other day I submitted Part XI: What Remains (I found it a month late; it's partly about the paperwork sent to Walgreens & partly about Inman trying to help fund a Tesla Museum w/ the followers he got from the earlier stuff), so of course Part XII shows up now.
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CK20XX, 18 Oct 2012 @ 3:00pm

Bah, humbug
You young whippersnappers and your Charles Carreon stories. "The Carreon Effect"? Pah! Like he was the first or the most noteworthy one to ever engage in it! Lemme tell you about when I was a lad, about when we all knew this guy, see, this psycho named Jack Thompson, the crazy to end all crazies...
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GeneralEmergency (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 3:05pm

Grrrrrrrrrrrr....
.

You would -THINK- that obvious, repeated, calculated "Avoidance of Service" would be ample grounds for disbarment in any state of the union.

Lawyers, must be held to the VERY HIGHEST standards when it comes to their own use of the -PEOPLE'S- legal system.

.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 3:46pm

Re: Bah, humbug
I miss him.... I got so sick from eating all that popcorn while watching him slowly destroy any integrity or professionalism that he may of had. His fight with the Florida Bar was epic... Too bad so many fax machines were killed during the war...
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 4:24pm

It seems Carreon is the stereotypical bully who turns into a coward when confronted. What a sad little man; a lawyer afraid of the law.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 4:35pm

Oh! write about him more so his crazy ass wife shows up again.
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That One Guy (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 6:55pm

Re: Re: WTF?
You know, that might actually work this time around. Have someone go up in brown clothes, carrying a package(empty box) tucked under their arm with a clipboard in the other hand. Get Carreon to the door, get him to identify himself, hand him a pen as though he's about to need to sign something, and then hand him the clipboard, which happens to contain the court papers.

Then just walk away and try not to laugh too hard until you've left the property.

Alternatively have the clipboard contain a short 'I, ____ have received package X' sheet, and have the package contain the court papers, though in that case you'd probably be better off just mailing the papers to him via UPS or something, to avoid any potential problems with impersonating a mail courier.
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mattarse (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 6:57pm

Re: Re: Re:
"The Carreon Family Crazy Hour" has been my favorite show this year. I'm just glad it's back for another season.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 7:16pm

Don't ask for donation for paying someone outside Carreon's house until Carreon appears
Go crowdfunding a documentary film on this one. With luck you may even be able to pay a cameraman plus 2 crews.

People here have shown interest on "The Carreon Family Crazy Hour".
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 8:02pm

Re: Re: Nuts
Randazza is a bit off his rocker as well so take that with a shaker of salt. Google Randazza Tugboat see where you end up.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 8:06pm

*sits back and enjoys the popcorn*
So whats the over under on Tara showing up next?
I hope before Sunday, she most likely has a shot as several of the funnies posts slots for the week.
As to the trolls talking about Mega, WTF.
Comparing a civil matter to a civil matter pretending to be criminal.
Comparing a corporation with no US presence to a lawyer living and practicing in the US.
Have you checked your feeding troughs for lead paint?
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Oct 2012 @ 9:03pm

As an aside...even though trademark law allows it, am I the only one who thinks registering a trademark on your own name pretentious and/or arrogant?
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G Thompson (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 9:14pm

Re: Re: Re: WTF?
There's another way to do it....

Make out you have a legal problem, ask him if you can talk about it Face 2 Face, when he agrees go to meeting and ask if he's Carreon. Then before you even talk about the fake legal matter (then he cant claim privilege) serve him..
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That One Guy (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 10:08pm

You know things are seriously screwed up...
...when the judge's advice essentially boils down to 'well have you tried stalking him, or otherwise acting in a manner that would usually be considered grounds for a restraining order?'

Actually now that I think of it, that would be a pretty hilarious turn of events, if the advice of one judge gets Carreon to try and get a restraining order from another judge. Could be a good way to get him out of his house long enough to serve him though, which would just increase the crazy factor even higher.
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techflaws (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 10:18pm

Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Still doesn't prove you right in any way. Bummer.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Oct 2012 @ 12:40am

Here's one former process server's opinion.

He should be found in contempt of court for deliberately obstructing service. People will only do this sort of thing if the courts let them get away with it.

Service laws vary from state to state, but in MY state we were never required to wait outside somebody's house until they came out, just to serve a summons. I did do this once because the guy was annoying me by not coming to the door even though he was home (and I happened to know he'd want to leave in a couple of hours), but it was never required. We were required to make REASONABLE attempts at personal service, after which service could be done by publishing and mailing.

However - three attempts would not be considered enough. The judge is out of line asking them to camp outside his house or wait for him at a grocery store(?!), but he's not wrong in suggesting that they haven't made enough of an attempt. For all they know he was out of town and the person refused because it wasn't him. Attempt his office a few times, anyway, and his house a few more times.
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Marcel de Jong (profile), 19 Oct 2012 @ 2:21am

Re:
Hasn't he reached the core of the earth yet?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Oct 2012 @ 3:22am

Re: WTF?
Why? You do realize that unless they have a warrant you can tell them to fuck off, right? You don't have to answer the door for the police.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Oct 2012 @ 3:23am

Re:
See, this was my first thought. I'd do it just to see the shit fit he throws when he does get served.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Oct 2012 @ 3:26am

Re:
Trial attorney. Couldn't you just grab him coming out of court? Or is he just not working, these days? Seems the most obvious course.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Oct 2012 @ 4:46am

Re: Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Don't insult twats. They at least have some appeal and use...
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Michael, 19 Oct 2012 @ 5:05am

Send the process server to China
Send the process server to China.

At the rate he is digging, he will be there soon.
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Machin Shin (profile), 19 Oct 2012 @ 5:31am

"Public Citizen, who is handling the case pro bono, is asking for donations to help pay for hiring someone to "sit outside Carreon's house until Carreon appears," noting that he's "carrying through on his promise to run up the cost of litigation.""

Too bad I don't live in his area... I would gladly do it for free just for the fun of it...
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 19 Oct 2012 @ 6:43am

Re: Re: Re: WTF?
This would never work, he would know that it was an alien plot being run to discredit him for being some sort of super being from a higher plane of existence...

Besides think how many ticking boxes have been sent to him already.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Oct 2012 @ 9:28am

I'm sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but does anyone else get a laugh at ootb's comments? I honestly can't tell if he takes himself seriously, though I'm betting the answer is "no".
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Oct 2012 @ 11:40am

Re: Re:
Even better. They should be able to easily determine if he has any upcoming court dates. And even if he doesn't, then at least they can document their efforts.

The judge is doing the plaintiff a FAVOR by refusing to allow email service. Because if he allowed it, that would be a matter which could easily be appealed later - and the guy already stated that he'd appeal forever. You certainly don't want to give him VALID grounds for appeal.
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Brent (profile), 19 Oct 2012 @ 11:52am

I cannot believe a judge suggested stalking someone. How did our legal system stoop so low as to rely on techniques employed by criminals to serve other criminals?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Oct 2012 @ 11:54am

Re: Re: Re:
Oh, and if you want to see the kind of effort that will be slam-dunk upheld on appeal:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/az-court-of-appeals/1550757.html

In that case, "the process server either telephoned or visited the office seven times over the following two weeks, between 9:30 a.m. and 1:40 p.m., in an attempt to determine whether Burgener was there. Each time the process server was told Burgener was not in the office. Blair then authorized the process server to attempt to locate Burgener's home address and serve him there. The process server located Burgener's residence in Phoenix, confirming with a neighbor that Burgener indeed lived at that address, and attempted to serve him there five times over the next eight days, between 4:10 p.m. and 8:40 p.m."
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hmm (profile), 19 Oct 2012 @ 2:00pm

Re:
You sure bout that?

Because Carreon's "wife" is just Carreon in a frock, a quick pubic-shaving and some hastily applied makeup......
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Oct 2012 @ 7:12pm

Re: Re:
Anyone who hires him deserves what they get. He has a history of going after clients who he feels cross him.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Oct 2012 @ 7:19pm

Re: Re: Re: WTF?
Better to appeal to his cheesy self-loving side. Invite him to a trendy black-tie party with a famous politician or actor as the guest of honor. Or throw a party honoring him for his great work defending the first amendment, oh the irony.
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