Charles Carreon Still Dishing Out Threats & Intimidation... While Hiding From Court Summons
from the keep-digging-carreon dept
Remember that rule number one of the Carreon Effect is that, when someone calls you out on your ridiculous position... just keep digging. And the man behind the effect apparently would like to make sure that his name really does set the gold standard in "just keep digging." Yes, that's right -- the man, the myth, the sheer wackiness of Charles Carreon is back. Except, that is, if you're trying to serve him for bogus threats against you. You may remember Charles Carreon for his famous lawsuit against the Oatmeal and a variety of unrelated other organizations, followed up by threats against parody accounts (doubly amusing, given Carreon's own fondness for parodying others).While Carreon eventually dropped his lawsuit against Matthew Inman at The Oatmeal, it wasn't before one of the parody bloggers he had threatened filed for declaratory judgment, claiming that his blogging was legal. Carreon quite clearly was threatening the blogger, and had even suggested that he would wait until the attention died down to sue -- which clearly gives the blogger grounds for seeking a declaratory judgment. That, of course, is a separate lawsuit, initiated by the blogger, so Carreon can't just drop it. But what he can do, apparently, is everything possible to avoid being served. The judge's own summary of the situation (via Popehat):
Plaintiff seeks a declaratory judgment that his satirical website does not infringe the trademark defendant has in his own name. Prior to filing a complaint, plaintiff's counsel was in contact with defendant via email. After filing the complaint, defendant and his wife publicly discussed the pending litigation. Plaintiff's counsel mailed defendant a request for waiver of summons to his address in Tucson, Arizona, which defendant did not execute. Instead, the entire envelope was mailed back to plaintiff, unopened, inside a second envelope. This same sequence of events was repeated after plaintiff filed an amended complaint. At plaintiff's request, the Court issued a summons, and plaintiff hired an Arizona process service company to serve the summons at the residential address. On the first visit, the server announced himself and was told “No thank you,” and left with the papers. On the second and third visits, nobody answered. The process service company then tried to serve the summons and complaint by certified mail, but the package was never claimed.Of course, during this time that Carreon was hiding out from officially being served, it didn't stop him from continuing to find ways to intimidate the blogger in question. Again, from the judge:
During this time, defendant contacted the general counsel of Walgreens, plaintiff's employer, stating plaintiff had used Walgreens' computer equipment or internet access to create the allegedly actionable website, and implying he might make Walgreens a party to the litigation under a theory of respondeat superior. The demand letter sent to Walgreens contained the same Tucson, Arizona address and email address that plaintiff had been using to attempt service on defendant.Following that, the blogger's lawyers once again emailed Carreon a copy of the summons, complaint and amended complaint -- including sending it to the address Carreon used to threaten Walgreens... and Carreon ignored that too.
Unfortunately, Carreon seems to be working the system effectively. Because even with all of these obvious attempts to avoid having to actually deal with the lawsuit against him, the judge is asking the blogger and his lawyers to "try harder:"
The process server could easily wait outside the fence for defendant to enter or leave the residence and could then leave the papers in the defendant's presence. Alternatively, the process server may choose to wait near a location defendant is thought to frequent, such as an office or grocery store. If the defendant still refuses to accept the papers, it will be considered sufficient if the “server is in close proximity to the defendant, clearly communicates intent to serve court documents, and makes reasonable efforts to leave the papers with the defendant.”And with that, the judge refuses to allow the emails to constitute proper service. Public Citizen, who is handling the case pro bono, is asking for donations to help pay for hiring someone to "sit outside Carreon's house until Carreon appears," noting that he's "carrying through on his promise to run up the cost of litigation."
It's unclear what Carreon thinks he's accomplishing here, as he's going to have to face these charges eventually. But, as once again seems clear, his response is to... just keep digging.
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Filed Under: carreon effect, charles carreon, declaratory judgment, hiding, parody, process server
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Nuts
But at this point, I'm inclined to think that he is actually unbalanced.
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Re: Nuts
Didn't one of his lawyer buddies suggest as much? Something along the lines of "yeah he's normally a good dude go easy on him" and then changing his tune to "holy crap this guy went batshit insane" when learning the details?
(Fake edit: Yeah I just looked it up, the lawyer in question is none other than Marc Randazza himself. His piece includes the telling quote "This will not end well for him. I just want to say that I tried. I really tried to get him to come to his senses. I tried really, really hard.".)
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just goes to show
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Re: just goes to show
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Re: just goes to show
It seems that this is the justice system, through the Judge, letting the game continue because the defendant is a lawyer. How long would the judge say "try harder" if the defendant wasn't a lawyer?
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I'd say what I'm actually thinking about all this, but I'm a bit hesitant to. I wouldn't want to get Tara to start making legal threats against me and then accusing me of being a Nazi and whatnot. Like the last time she was on this site making similar claims.
I'd feel sorry for them, but they certainly do bring it upon themselves. As such I don't.
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So yeah, this kind of crazy does have quite the entertainment value.
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Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
[What I call the "Masnick dodge" is, in brief, to promise five years ago to soon explain how "sunk (or fixed) costs" could always be recovered, and ever since to only ignore or divert or bluster when questioned on the topic. See Mike's "can't compete" piece; search for "recovered", should get you to his post about middle of the many comments, if I recall accurately.]
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Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
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Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
That is very much obvious.
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Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
While we're talking about that comment, I fail to see where it says sunk costs can always be recovered, or where Mike blusters, ignores, or diverts. All I see are answers.
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Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
I hate myself already for stooping to name calling and death wishes but you my friend are as bat shit crazy as Carreon.
Again; get over being called out as a douche as you very obviously are the king of the douches. Carreon is a close second but you take the cake for trollish behavior brought on by butthurt. I bet your ass bleeds continually.
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Re: Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Come to the dark side AC. [whispers]Dark side AC.
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Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Sorry, did I say something again?
Boooooring... yet again.
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Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Different from Dotcom who lives and works overseas, boy.
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Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
Try harder...no wait, don't try at all. You just completely fail. At everything.
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Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
At least you don't hold a grudge and have healthily gotten over it. That's all that matters.
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Re: Wait a second: weren't you claiming Megaupload can't be served?
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WTF?
Around here, you get served by a Sheriff. If they can tell you're in there, you damn well better answer.
Not to mention that receiving the mail in person is not enough, it must also be signed and the signing must be witnessed by a sheriff.
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Re: WTF?
The hardest part was to get them to self identify, wearing brown clothes and carrying a metal clipboard worked pretty good for that though.
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Re: Re: WTF?
Then just walk away and try not to laugh too hard until you've left the property.
Alternatively have the clipboard contain a short 'I, ____ have received package X' sheet, and have the package contain the court papers, though in that case you'd probably be better off just mailing the papers to him via UPS or something, to avoid any potential problems with impersonating a mail courier.
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Re: Re: Re: WTF?
Make out you have a legal problem, ask him if you can talk about it Face 2 Face, when he agrees go to meeting and ask if he's Carreon. Then before you even talk about the fake legal matter (then he cant claim privilege) serve him..
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Re: Re: Re: WTF?
Besides think how many ticking boxes have been sent to him already.
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Re: WTF?
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*singing*
Will there be peace when you are done?
Lay your weary lies to rest,
Don't you try no more.
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Part XII already?
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Bah, humbug
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Re: Bah, humbug
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Grrrrrrrrrrrr....
You would -THINK- that obvious, repeated, calculated "Avoidance of Service" would be ample grounds for disbarment in any state of the union.
Lawyers, must be held to the VERY HIGHEST standards when it comes to their own use of the -PEOPLE'S- legal system.
.
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Re:
Because Carreon's "wife" is just Carreon in a frock, a quick pubic-shaving and some hastily applied makeup......
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Don't ask for donation for paying someone outside Carreon's house until Carreon appears
People here have shown interest on "The Carreon Family Crazy Hour".
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So whats the over under on Tara showing up next?
I hope before Sunday, she most likely has a shot as several of the funnies posts slots for the week.
As to the trolls talking about Mega, WTF.
Comparing a civil matter to a civil matter pretending to be criminal.
Comparing a corporation with no US presence to a lawyer living and practicing in the US.
Have you checked your feeding troughs for lead paint?
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You know things are seriously screwed up...
Actually now that I think of it, that would be a pretty hilarious turn of events, if the advice of one judge gets Carreon to try and get a restraining order from another judge. Could be a good way to get him out of his house long enough to serve him though, which would just increase the crazy factor even higher.
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He should be found in contempt of court for deliberately obstructing service. People will only do this sort of thing if the courts let them get away with it.
Service laws vary from state to state, but in MY state we were never required to wait outside somebody's house until they came out, just to serve a summons. I did do this once because the guy was annoying me by not coming to the door even though he was home (and I happened to know he'd want to leave in a couple of hours), but it was never required. We were required to make REASONABLE attempts at personal service, after which service could be done by publishing and mailing.
However - three attempts would not be considered enough. The judge is out of line asking them to camp outside his house or wait for him at a grocery store(?!), but he's not wrong in suggesting that they haven't made enough of an attempt. For all they know he was out of town and the person refused because it wasn't him. Attempt his office a few times, anyway, and his house a few more times.
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The judge is doing the plaintiff a FAVOR by refusing to allow email service. Because if he allowed it, that would be a matter which could easily be appealed later - and the guy already stated that he'd appeal forever. You certainly don't want to give him VALID grounds for appeal.
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http://caselaw.findlaw.com/az-court-of-appeals/1550757.html
In that case, "the process server either telephoned or visited the office seven times over the following two weeks, between 9:30 a.m. and 1:40 p.m., in an attempt to determine whether Burgener was there. Each time the process server was told Burgener was not in the office. Blair then authorized the process server to attempt to locate Burgener's home address and serve him there. The process server located Burgener's residence in Phoenix, confirming with a neighbor that Burgener indeed lived at that address, and attempted to serve him there five times over the next eight days, between 4:10 p.m. and 8:40 p.m."
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Send the process server to China
At the rate he is digging, he will be there soon.
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Too bad I don't live in his area... I would gladly do it for free just for the fun of it...
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