Copyright Maximalism Never Rests: TPP Talks Continue In Singapore

from the unfortunate dept

Tue, Mar 5th 2013 8:02pm — Mike Masnick

Despite growing protests and concerns about the next big US trade agreement (with Europe), the discussions on the Trans Pacific Partnership continue to move forward, with the latest round taking place in Singapore this week. And... once again, it's a story of near complete secrecy, and a total lack of transparency. Of key concern, of course, are the sections of the agreement on patents and copyrights, which the public has not seen. There was a leak from over two years ago, but nothing since then. The USTR and others say that they want the agreement completed by this fall, and it is a complete travesty that they have not been willing to share the details publicly. Negotiating a treaty in complete secrecy -- especially when the "input" on the IP chapter is driven by industry stakeholders, rather than the public -- means that the treaty almost certainly is going to be a disaster that is harmful to the public.

What's most amazing is that the USTR doesn't seem to recognize that the playing field has changed since the last time they did this. The rejection of SOPA, followed by the widespread rejection of ACTA (even if the USTR is in total denial about this) shows that the public is not at all willing to accept backroom deals that fundamentally expand bad patent and copyright policies around the globe and (worse) lock us in to things that the public does not believe are legitimate.

The USTR's continued insistence on secrecy, combined with the few leaks of information showing just how extreme a position they're setting out for themselves on patents and copyrights, suggests an organization so totally out of touch that it is destroying its own credibility. Any reasonable organization would recognize that the old backroom negotiations method of creating these kinds of deals is no longer acceptable. That the USTR refuses to admit this only increases awareness of just how out of touch the organization and its leadership remain.

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Filed Under: copyright, ip, negotiations, patents, secrecy, singapore, tpp, transparency

27 Comments

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Alana (profile), 5 Mar 2013 @ 8:26pm

But the public ARE the stakeholders.
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- btrussell (profile), 5 Mar 2013 @ 8:31pm
  
  Re:
  No, corporations are the steak holders, we only get the sizzle.
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  - Beech, 6 Mar 2013 @ 1:16am
    
    Re: Re:
    What?! ARE YOU LISTENING TO THE SOUNDS PRODUCED BY MY WONDERFUL STEAK? I hope you were planning on paying the licensing fee for that, you freetard bastard!! This steak is mine, so any sounds made by it are also mine. And God himself help you if you somehow managed to smell a bit of it! Smells, also mine. Your bill is in the mail.
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  - gorehound (profile), 6 Mar 2013 @ 4:49am
    
    Re: Re:
    And the TPP is a Toilet Paper Pact !
    USTR you are a group of Corrupt A-Hole Human Monkey Beings.
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- shane (profile), 6 Mar 2013 @ 6:47am
  
  Stakeholders
  This goes back to concepts of who should be allowed to vote. As much as the "middle class" folks at the forefront of democratic movements in the early modern era supported the death of monarchy, they did NOT support democracy. What they supported was plutocracy, and that is what we have - with a few democratic outlets built in for appearances sake, and yes, to alert our leaders when there is a groundswell of resentment building.
  
  Banking, whether central or not, is a method of centralizing control over the economy. When the government ceases taking payment of taxes in kind or in labor and begins to force us to pay taxes in little paper notes issued by a separate group of private interests, we are in effect being put in the service of these said individuals.
  
  Intellectual property creates a situation where non-physical goods can be commoditized and thus plugged into this same system.
  
  Limited liability ensures the owners cannot be held accountable. Corporate owners enjoy immunity to lawsuits similar to the immunity the government itself enjoys.
  
  The stakeholders are the owners, and have been for pretty much all of human history. We are less, and not more free, than medieval man.
  
  You are attacking only one branch of the system. Seek out the root. The root is the very concept of owning anything that one does not make themselves or else trade for. If you are not attacking rule by ownership, you are not attacking the actual problem. If there is no rule by ownership, then IP becomes immaterial. Rule must be consensus based, truly of by and for the people rather than merely nominally so.
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PopeyeLePoteaux, 5 Mar 2013 @ 8:36pm

Losing hope.
The "credibility" is not the main issue, Mike, they have the money to get their way no matter if they are credible or not.

I guess all goes to "might is right" mindset which is sad to be honest, I still want to believe that this madness can be stopped somehow, but the most logical/cynical side of me tells me that it is almost certain that the battle is already lost, and seeing how the USTR is trying to resurrect ACTA, and I have no doubt they will bully other countries to get the 6 ratifications needed, and at this point I think they will succeed.

Only time will tell, I hope the public (me included) will be able to rally against this the same way as with SOPA/PIPA and ACTA.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Mar 2013 @ 9:23pm

when, in the course of human events
...
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Mar 2013 @ 9:52pm

I don't think you understand the negatives that came out of the SOPA hysteria. Prior to SOPA, piracy was an issue that was "out of sight, out of mind" and discussed with more of a wink wink, nudge nudge mentality. To politicians, it was someone else's problem. Afterwards, many in government thought they had been duped, blindsided, and ultimately, manipulated. They were none too happy about this, and as a result were alerted to an issue and environment they knew nothing about prior to SOPA. A rather ironic example of your "Streisand Effect".
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- Anonymous Coward, 5 Mar 2013 @ 11:33pm
  
  Re:
  There's a fundamental difference between governments failing their people, and the public making the government aware of a false-flag issue.
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- Beech, 6 Mar 2013 @ 1:19am
  
  Re:
  What fucking fantasy world are you living in? The industry has been crying bloody murder about piracy for DECADES. What do you mean it wasn't really discussed until after SOPA? Then what was the DMCA about? Total Bullshit. Go home and try harder
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Mike Masnick (profile), 6 Mar 2013 @ 1:22am
  
  Re:
  I don't think you understand the negatives that came out of the SOPA hysteria. Prior to SOPA, piracy was an issue that was "out of sight, out of mind" and discussed with more of a wink wink, nudge nudge mentality. To politicians, it was someone else's problem. Afterwards, many in government thought they had been duped, blindsided, and ultimately, manipulated. They were none too happy about this, and as a result were alerted to an issue and environment they knew nothing about prior to SOPA. A rather ironic example of your "Streisand Effect".
  
  I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you appear to be living in a fantasy land.
  
  I mean, maybe in some parallel dimension, but what you describe above is not reality.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2013 @ 7:50am
    
    Re: Re:
    I guess you think the congresswoman I spoke to about the subject is living in fantasy-land as well...
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    - Ruben, 6 Mar 2013 @ 9:59am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      As do the majority of politicians.
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- Zakida Paul (profile), 6 Mar 2013 @ 1:30am
  
  Re:
  "piracy was an issue that was "out of sight, out of mind" and discussed with more of a wink wink, nudge nudge mentality"
  
  Bollocks.
  
  The idiots in copyright land have been bleating about piracy for decades.
  
  VCRs, cassette recorders, MP3 players, Minidisc players, CD burners and many more were all accused of being tools of piracy when they first came out, they were all supposed to bring the death of entertainment. Take your head out of your arse and do some research.
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- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2013 @ 2:43am
  
  Re:
  Then when the hell were "Don't Copy That Floppy" and "Home Taping is Killing Music" for, then?
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- Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2013 @ 6:27am
  
  Re:
  If didn't care about copyright infirgent proir to SOPA, the where the hell did the NET Act, DMCA, ACTA, and the Berne Convention come from?!
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  - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2013 @ 7:54am
    
    Re: Re:
    Only certain congress people had to deal with those issues. With SOPA, virtually every one of them were inundated with phone calls about something that was not on their radar.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Mar 2013 @ 10:01pm

How is that "Government of the people, by the people" working out for yous.
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- Anonymous Coward, 5 Mar 2013 @ 10:27pm
  
  Re:
  Corporations are people, so it's still working.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 6 Mar 2013 @ 2:51am
    
    Re: Re:
    And the thing is that 28 million corporations are by far more than 222 million voters. Not to mention that less than 6 millions of those employ people and 633.000 have 10 or more employees. Since it is the 633.000 the politicians actually listen to 633.000 > 222.000.000. Now Hollywood math looks textbook!
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ECA (profile), 5 Mar 2013 @ 11:58pm

dONT SAY i DIDNT SAY THIS..
Think about HOW to keep secrets..
Do you make much of it PUBLIC? as in the meeting?
NO..

We need to find the MAIN group.
The ones we are seeing are only the Enterouge(sp) the FOREST, that is hiding the trees.
Think about it..the ones we see..arnt the ones deciding WHAT is to be done.
We need the NAMEs of the idiots in the background. WE need to MAKE them HEAR US..OR make/show them the PATH to doing things RIGHT.
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Beech, 6 Mar 2013 @ 1:26am

We just need to ramp up another giant SOPA style protest against this. Once more to the breach! And for Gods sake, once we finally get the attention from it DON'T let the pressure up. KEEP emailing. KEEP calling. Let's melt congress' phones daily, not just once. Change voter habits. Let the idiots in charge see that this isn't just some topical, 1 day protest kind of thing that Google bought/tricked people into. If they refuse to believe that it isn't Google behind it, whatever, let them know that Google has PERMANENTLY tricked/bought us, and that is going to change our vote.

Instead of protesting just this one treaty, we need to protest the douchebags behind it. Get Ron Kirk's ass fired. Find what lobbyists have been buying him. Find who else they've talked to and get those people fired too. Make public figures afraid to even court ideas from the IP industries.

Let's turn the internet into political poison. Stand up and say, "This is ours, touch it and die!" (Die is not to be construed as a threat, is referring to their political careers).
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Ninja (profile), 6 Mar 2013 @ 2:22am

They still have 456974 combinations of up to four letters to use in the international and domestic scenarios (26*26*26*26-2=456976-2
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- Ninja (profile), 6 Mar 2013 @ 2:25am
  
  Re:
  Nice, my comment was cut. I excluded SOPA/PIPA from the domestic scenario and TPP/ACTA from the international.. Now that I think of it you'd need to consider the absence of one letter to include TPP so we have 27 possibilities in the last character or 474552 total. I wonder if they'll add the 5th letter once they reach that limitation.
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  - nasch (profile), 6 Mar 2013 @ 7:56am
    
    Re: Re:
    I wonder if they'll add the 5th letter once they reach that limitation.
    
    Well at an average of 6 treaties per year (assuming they will accelerate), that would take just over 79,000 years. So if human civilization is still around, I doubt anyone but historians will remember what the word "copyright" means. It will be like those laws you laugh about, banning eating a pickle in public on Mondays.
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out_of_the_blue, 6 Mar 2013 @ 3:14am

More stupid from the USTR and secret trade agreements, only benefits big content and a few people. Not designed for the public.

Take a loopy tour of Techdirt.com! You always end up at same place!
http://techdirt.com/
Techdirt fanboys are totally committed to free speech -- which to them means links to infringing content!
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shane (profile), 6 Mar 2013 @ 6:34am

What this means
Is that there is not enough pressure being put on politicians to stop supporting this sort of thing. I tried a month or two ago to get some folks interested in taking the Aaron Swartz issue to the streets, and even people here were not responsive.

Web sites are not going to get it done. Even EFF and Demand Progress are not organizing boots on the ground. I went to several Occupy Austin meetings and never got much support either.

At some point you are going to have to leverage your tech savvy into something sustainable that presses forward with reform rather than constantly fighting a rear guard retreat against what looks more and more like the inevitable.
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