Lawyer Suggests That Prenda Law May Have Only 'Released' Movies It Sued Over As A Honeypot For Lawsuits

from the well,-look-at-that dept

Fri, Mar 22nd 2013 1:15pm — Mike Masnick

Another day, another story having to with Prenda Law (the hits just keep on coming). Found via FightCopyrightTrolls, we discover some research done by lawyer Graham Syfert, who has taken on Prenda/John Steele in a number of cases, including the infamous Florida case that was tossed out for fraud on the court following an Abbott & Costello-worthy transcript involving John Steele, Mark Lutz, and a variety of guest appearances from others on Team Prenda (despite Prenda claiming to both have nothing to do with the case... and with hiring the lawyers for the case, who were all trying to get off the case).

Apparently getting curious about the whole shell within a shell within a shell setup of Livewire/AF Holdings/Ingenuity 13, Syfert began wondering about just what copyrighted works were actually at the center of those lawsuits. As you may recall, Prenda, used to represent actual porn studios, but at some point shifted to a variety of shell corporations, which it's now accused of running itself (a big no no). But then what copyright was it using? Well, Syfert looked at the details of the lawsuits, and then looked around, and basically found that the "movies" in question never appear to be distributed in any way, except via BitTorrent, all seeded by the same user. Hmmmm....

So, four out of the Five Fan Favorites that Ingenuity 13 wishes to protect are shared by sharkmp4. (Other hash values referenced in complaints do not result in any valid torrent). One wonders if the "Five Fan Favorites" copy registered with the copyright office includes all of these sharkmp4 videos. Would that be proof that Prenda Law is seeding its own works and then suing? The honeypot. The venus fly trap. The pitcher plant? Or is sharkmp4 just another pirate?

Syfert digs a bit deeper and digs up a bit more info on this "sharkmp4" character:

Now of course, this all begs the question: Who is sharkmp4? Well, the IP address associated with this user can be determined by a technically skilled individual who could load up all the torrents, join the torrent swarms and then find the common seed. However, there is no reason to do this, because it will come back with a Mullvad VPN on an IP in Germany owned by Leaseweb and get you nowhere.

Well, almost nowhere. Because back at FightCopyrightTrolls, they add a little piece to the puzzle.

I want to point out to one coincidence that Graham did not mention (probably he did not know): a person who we strongly believe was John Steele had been commenting on this blog via Mullvad VPN (links at the bottom). Although it does not prove anything per se — a single exit IP address is shared by many VPN users — the fact that Mullvad VPN was allegedly used to seed certain pornographic movies is interesting.

Obviously, not conclusive proof of anything, but enough to leave you scratching your head and wondering. It's not like Mullvad is one of the more popular VPNs either. And, of course if John Steele, or a representative of the copyright holder themselves is uploading and distributing the file in the first place (and that's the only place where it's released), there's a reasonable argument to be made that any downloads are not infringing, since it's clearly an authorized copy. At this point, Steele and Team Prenda are likely in enough hot water, but it seems like a court that wants to dig even deeper into the whole thing might uncover some more... interesting things during discovery.

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Filed Under: grayam syfert, honeypots, john steele, movies
Companies: prenda, prenda law

57 Comments

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madasahatter (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 1:26pm

Seeding
Interesting, if they seeded a torrent in a honey pot operation but did not release it elsewhere does that mean it is released free of charge? If so, then there is copyright infringement possible.
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madasahatter (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 1:26pm

Seeding
Interesting, if they seeded a torrent in a honey pot operation but did not release it elsewhere does that mean it is released free of charge? If so, then there is copyright infringement possible.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
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out_of_the_blue, 22 Mar 2013 @ 1:30pm

Comment all in the tag:
Take a loopy tour of Techdirt.com! You always end up same place!
http://techdirt.com/
ZOMG! Yet another item on Prenda Law! A staple in the soporific "At The Bench" series. Mike sez (short version): "Wow. Wow. Wow. ... The story is gripping."
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130303/23353022182/prenda-law-sues-critics-defamation .shtml
09:29:02[k-842-2]
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 1:38pm

Re: Comment all in the tag:
I really do think that out_of_my_shoe has to be some sort of Mike or Techdirt. Really, I do. Well, not really...maybe...

Because I just can't find out what purpose s/he serves. Or what exactly it is s/he's trying to accomplish.

Unless s/he just wants to waste time...I guess that's a purpose?
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 1:41pm

Next Question
Who stars in them, It wouldn't be a bunch of lawyers would it?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
alanbleiweiss (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:02pm

and the rabbit hole that became a sink hole is now a black hole, from which one can only pray the Prendites never climb back out of...
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fogbugzd (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:03pm

To me there are two interesting points:

1) It is going to be very hard to demonstrate any actual financial losses resulting from copying because apparently there was no commercial market for the products in the first place. Of course with the wonderful, wacky world of statutory damages no one has to prove damages.

2) There may not be enough evidence to prove that Steel uploaded the videos, but there probably is enough evidence to justify asking him under oath whether he did upload it or knew who did. I sincerely hope that if that happens there is video in that court. Watching him squirm would be very entertaining.
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Digitari, 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:09pm

Re: Comment all in the tag:
Whats the matter OOTB can't beat handcuffed suspects anymore???
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:17pm

Re: Comment all in the tag:
The only thing I can't yet figure out is if he's paid per post or paid per reply.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:21pm

Re: Re: Comment all in the tag:
Neither, he's just a lonely troll. Other sites wont even give him the time of day, but there are many here are willing to fuel him, so why wouldn't he come back? That's what a troll does.
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That One Guy (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:21pm

Re:
#2 actually wouldn't pose too much of a problem for him unfortunately, as there really wouldn't be any reason for him not to lie, but a whole ton of reasons to do so.
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Chosen Reject (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:22pm

Re:
I doubt he would squirm. I'm fairly certain he's the kind of person that doesn't get squirmy if it's his word against nobody else. Now, if you could get the logs from the VPN (if they keep that kind of thing) then you could probably get him to squirm a bit.
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Crashoverride (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:31pm

If the owner is the seeder and the seeder is the owner. Did a crime occur.
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Nick (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Comment all in the tag:
Then wouldn't he reply to other comments, rather than shoot a comment and leave?
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Nick (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:54pm

Maybe he used it as a filelocker!
Or... I know! He just wanted to send the file to his friend and bit-torrent was the only way! So he posted it on a site fully expecting that ONLY his friend who is the only other user authorized to download it would download it. It is NOT his fault that everyone else connected to his computer and accessed the movie stream pouring out of his house. In fact, they must have been guilty of the CFAA because they accessed the information on his computer without his permission! Expect them to be sued for a violation of the CFAA next.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:55pm

I'm guessing this is totally the case.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 3:03pm

Re: Maybe he used it as a filelocker!
Clearly his best course of action is to hack them back and destroy their computers. That'll show those pesky hacker-pirates/network printers.
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out_of_the_blue, 22 Mar 2013 @ 3:12pm

Re: Comment all in the tag:
Thats not me check the timestamp!

09:35:11[P3-RV-3RT]
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Nick (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 3:17pm

Re: Re: Maybe he used it as a filelocker!
But he is being stopped. See, he wants to get their real names based off their IPs so he can personalize the computer death screen message, but courts are refusing to allow the names to be released. If only he came clean about wanting to blow up their computers instead of take their names to shake down for cash, then this would all not have happened.
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LDoBe, 22 Mar 2013 @ 3:31pm

Entrapment
If I may offer a pretty bad analogy:

File sharing is not illegal, and a rights holder who posts a file to the network legally can't expect to have his distribution rights upheld.

He chose to distribute the file, therefore he can't sue people for taking what was freely offered.

It's like rigging a claymore to your front door, then inviting people to come in.
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Sneeje (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 4:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Comment all in the tag:
No, that's his MO as a troll--say something equal parts ignorance and equal parts provocative and run away.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 4:29pm

Oh this would be so beautiful if it could be proved. The dot over the "i", the banana in my milkshake, the nutella on my bread, the ice cream in my pancake... it would be complete and so so sweet. Not only to watch Prenda burn in court but could also maybe make more judges and politicians push harder against this kind of practice.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 4:36pm

Gimme an "R"...
Gimme an "I"...
Gimme a "C"...
Gimme an "O"...

What does that spell?

"PRISON!"
"PRISON!"
"PRISON!"
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rhizome (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 5:18pm

Re: Seeding
IANAL but I believe it would be a form of estoppel, since they authorized its distribution by doing it themselves.
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John Henry (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 6:04pm

honeypot dream nightmares
relevant:

http://i.imgur.com/fsUvv4D.jpg
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 6:21pm

Re: Next Question
Its true, the only thing that could top this is if we find out they actually made the porn themselves.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 6:50pm

Re:
It's a civil lawsuit, so "proof" isn't needed, only "a preponderance of evidence" for one side or the other.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 7:29pm

Re: Re: Comment all in the tag:
He's just mad because he's a freetard, and he admits it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 7:44pm

Re: Seeding
Copyright trolls having unclean hands in these cases?!
Say it isn't so... and I'll call you a fscking lair.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2013 @ 7:44pm

C'mon, Chicken Joe. This is the copyright that you so dearly love to defend. Bawkity bawk bawk bawk. Where's your merits of copyright now - movie making to sue people over them? And your buddies wonder why nobody respects copyright.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 7:47pm

Re: Maybe he used it as a filelocker!
IIRC some early paperwork from what would become Prenda or LW claimed that their client had the exclusive right to distribute the file via BT.
I always thought that wording was odd.... until now.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 7:54pm

Re: honeypot dream nightmares
is it sad I feel worse for Pooh than I do for Steele?
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out_of_the_blue, 22 Mar 2013 @ 8:00pm

Re: Comment all in the tag:
I love me. Can't you tell how much I love me? My love is overflowing of the me. The me encompasses all. I will continue to spam a site with irrelevant commentary! Can't you tell how awesome I am?

Take a loopy tour of techdirt! You always end up with the same comments. http://techdirt.com/

15/35/09
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G Thompson (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 9:10pm

Re: Re: Seeding
Equitable estoppel is the least of there problems if this allegation is proven correct.

They would then go into a maze of Criminal law - Fraud, extortion, blackmail, false pretences, to name a few and then a whole heap of civil torts with champerty, barratry and coercion at the top of that list.

In other words... screwed! And the pain... oh the pain would be excruciating.
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G Thompson (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 9:20pm

For those wondering yes this whole thing is being looked into with a very fine tooth comb whilst wearing surgical gloves.

Mullvad VPN is not in the USA (Sweden) so international considerations now come into it and a fair few people who have the technical skills (and no not anonymous... they might or might not be doing there own investigation... who knows they are capable though) are looking very closely at it all.

If this allegation turns out to be correct and provable then Prenda, Steele, et.al who might think they have problems with just the US Federal courts now, will have more than those courts to deal with.. Then we get into the realm of not even Saint Kitts and Nevis being able to protect them just for starters.

Oh and Discovery of there own electronic devices would then almost definitely commence. Though hey if they start deleting now (they could even use CCleaner *snorts*) it might take a bit longer to recover the data... and cause more criminal woes for them.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 11:45pm

Re:
*sniffle*
I don't count as Anonymous?!
The recruiting poster said we all were Anonymous!
THOSE LIARS! :D

Its clear they were afraid of me, the sad thing for them is I'm not that talented. Now they have the attention of people who can do the things I only dream of being able to do...
that's going to end well....
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 11:51pm

Re: Maybe he used it as a filelocker!
You might want to read up on some cases on FCT...
hacking cases no less...
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Violated (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 12:13am

We can wish
Unfortunately even if they had seeded these torrents then VPN use could well mean there is no actual proof. Logs are long gone and I doubt they did some seeding using a home IP address.

Still it is sure worth checking into this as deep as you can when humans do make mistakes and they have never been that bright. Should proof of a honey-pot ever be discovered then they would sure be going to prison.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 12:37am

Re: We can wish
Well if a file was never offered on the market and turned up being seeded one might need to look at the owners and their agents as the source.
I mean if you were going to post screenshots you might want to remove where the file is identified as being the master.
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froggster, 23 Mar 2013 @ 12:48am

"shark"
It is also interesting to note that "shark" (in sharkmp4) is a term used to describe lawyers.
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G Thompson (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 1:26am

Re: Re:
But I specifically asked who you were before (by suggesting batman) and you replied TAC.. so therefore you mustn't be Anonymous... though Legend??? maybe ;)

Oh yes they have very much gotten on peoples attention radar that would not normally occur, and a lot of these people normally stay in the background, though some are upfront and in-your-face - playing the old psych game which Sun Tzu would be proud of - and these people sometimes make up Anonymous, sometimes don't, sometimes are against anonymous, but are always and specifically VERY socially conscious highly cynical and don't take kindly to idiotic, egotistic people and/or organisations who like to think, speciously, that they are in any way a part of the 'big leagues'.
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ADF, 23 Mar 2013 @ 2:33am

Re: Seeding
If they themselves offered it for download by Torrent or arranged to have this done by some other party, then how is it possible for them to charge people who accepted the offer and tried to download it?
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BearGriz72 (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 2:44am

Re: Re: Comment all in the tag:
Again, if you created a profile, this would not be a problem....

Still not clear on why you refuse to do so. Techdirt/Floor64/Mike already has your email $ IP Address Etc. What are you afraid of?
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 3:13am

Re: Re: Re:
I could be BloodNinja... aite? I put on my robe and wizards hat...

I will not be happy until I get my footnote mention from a Federal Judge, its like the ultimate merit badge. :D I am so jealous of SJD and DTD over that...

I've seen more new people leaving breadcrumbs around, and taking some of the bits and pieces we've had but couldn't find a puzzle to fit them into and they find the puzzle.

I keep hoping we'll see an ACS:Law style epic event, where they just hand out the smoking gun to the world themselves.

With luck other trolls will get noticed and suffer the same fates. While they might not be on the same level of Prenda the misery and tricks they are using are just as sleazy.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 5:25am

Re: Re:
And its even worse because they never give the accused a day in court unless they think they won't show up.
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Ninja (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 6:42am

When all this ends they'll be so deeply stuck into the mud that Rightraven and ACS:Law will feel the envy ;)
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Clownius, 23 Mar 2013 @ 7:22am

Re: We can wish
The thing with most Swedish and other decent VPNs is they specifically dont keep logs.

https://mullvad.net/en/prices_terms.php#privacy

Mullvad is one of them. They dont keep logs and thus cant be forced to hand over information about who used what IP at any time.

Unless you find the torrent still on their computer and/or a saved login to sharkmp4 on piratebay i think your out of luck here.

Dont know who clued them onto VPN's. Maybe they learned something along the way posting on all the anti-troll blogs
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 8:45am

Re: Re: We can wish
VPN's aren't as unknown as one would expect.
There is a possibility that during one of their fishing trips they hit upon a series of IP addresses that lead them to VPNs and discovered they weren't able to get information about the users.
For a low cost someone could anonymously seed a bunch of files and gather information.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Mar 2013 @ 9:20am

Re: Re: Comment all in the tag:
"Because I just can't find out what purpose s/he (it) serves. Or what exactly it is s/he's trying to accomplish."

It appears he's posting contrary (if not rational) statments to curry payment form his corporate masters.
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DeeP, 23 Mar 2013 @ 12:38pm

Re: Comment all in the tag:
Get a life, OOTB, for Pete's sake! None of your trollish comments are in the least bit interesting to the majority of sane, well-educated and non-troll readers. The sooner you realise this, the better. You only get reported time and time again. A-ha! Got it. This person must be some sort of masochist......Yes, that must be it.
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special-interesting (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 3:06pm

Re: Maybe he used it as a filelocker!
Thats great reasoning on how bad the CFAA was written.
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special-interesting (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 3:19pm

It's the mother load.

I might complain of the weakness of the evidence but similar analysis leading mostly to accusation by insinuation is used frequently and successfully against file sharers.

Have suggested jokingly earlier the risk of flight was minimal but these people might be way down the rabbit hole. To early and evidence light to comment further but the bread crumb trail seems significant. Cant wait to get these guys on the stand.

A great allegation that any copyright maximalist would slather over to smear some accused IP violator. No wait, that is an IP violation! Round and round.

To early for an armed SWAT raid? (just a thought)
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Wally (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 6:27pm

"Lawyer Suggests That Prenda Law May Have Only 'Released' Movies It Sued Over As A Honeypot For Lawsuits"

In other words...entrapment.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 24 Mar 2013 @ 2:26am

Re:
or Fraud upon the courts, extortion, unjust enrichment,

there is a list
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nasch (profile), 24 Mar 2013 @ 5:43pm

Re:
In other words...entrapment.

From the movie of the same name, "Entrapment is what cops do to thieves." Only law enforcement can do entrapment.
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?nothing but questions?, 30 Mar 2013 @ 9:57am

Vexatious litigation
Does this apply ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation

"most of which require that the litigant be proceeding pro se"

we think not since there are actually, "lawyers & firms" (term used loosely in these circumstances) making the complaints in behalf of the pornographers.

Is this a correct understanding of the quoted statement?
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Sheogorath (profile), 7 Apr 2013 @ 1:02pm

I predicted something like this...
and the copyright troll lost in court.
http://glossynews.com/society/201301140326/man-sued-for-copyright-infringement-wins-case-2/
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