MPAA's Chris Dodd Will Be The Chair Of 'Free Speech Week'

Knowing The Government Is Spying On You Changes How You Act

from the if-you've-done-nothing-wrong? dept

Tue, Jun 18th 2013 9:44am — Mike Masnick

We've already had a few posts discussing why the whole "if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide" argument is bogus, but this weekend's edition of the radio show This American Life had a fantastic short section in which the host, Ira Glass, spoke to lawyers for detainees at Guantanamo Bay, who are all pretty certain that every one of their phone calls is being recorded and listened to. What's amazing is the emotional response you hear from most of these lawyers, who recognize that they can no longer comfortably speak freely to anyone on the phone ever again. The stories of them not being able to be emotional with their children when speaking to them on the phone, or in which their friends accuse them of being especially curt and officious whenever they call are somewhat heartbreaking.

These are the things that many people simply don't recognize about the psychological impact of a surveillance state. When you have no real downtime -- no time when you can be free from prying eyes, it messes with your brain in a really profound way. This short segment (just 8 minutes long) really highlights how much a little thing like the inability to ever speak to someone privately changes your entire way of speaking and communicating. As we seem to be drifting rapidly towards such a surveillance state, these are the issues that we should be thinking about and understanding. There may be certain benefits to being able to do widespread surveillance, but we should not and cannot ignore the costs.

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Filed Under: culture, emotions, guantanamo, lawyers, nsa, nsa surveillance, phone calls, privacy, surveillance

54 Comments

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Ninja (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 8:09am

Obviously. Even if you are sure to be law abiding you'll always have that pesky doubt deep down your mind that will erode you overtime. If you know you are monitored 100% of the time in your communications are you really going to say those naughty, pornographic things to your partner? Are you going to discuss your personal dilemmas? I wouldn't. Sometime in the future because I slipped somewhere this may be scrutinized by others. Or worse, hacked and released in the wild. No, you cannot rest with a surveillance state. This alone is enough to drive people insane.
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- The Real Michael, 18 Jun 2013 @ 6:22pm
  
  Re:
  No way am I changing the way I act or communicate. I don't live in fear, not of government nor "terrorists".
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Akari Mizunashi (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 9:46am

I don't know. The people in the UK seem to have adapted well, if you read this idiot's http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/18/edward-snowden-leaks-grave-threat article.

I love the line "Snowden has given Beijing something it couldn't achieve on its own: moral equivalence."

Of course I jest about those in the UK, but when articles like this try to dispel why the surveillance isn't an issue of a police state, it's obviously written by someone who lives in one.
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- Zakida Paul (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 9:52am
  
  Re:
  I am sure the US has seen it's share of similar idiocy on the issue. Idiocy comes from all over the place.
  
  Also, I swear to God, if I hear the line "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" one more time, I am gonna kill someone.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 9:58am
    
    Re: Re:
    Sorry for triggering your killer instinct, but:
    
    http://falkvinge.net/2012/07/19/debunking-the-dangerous-nothing-to-hide-nothing-to-fear/
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    - Zakida Paul (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:05am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      "Sorry for triggering your killer instinct"
      
      More like an Incredible Hulk style rage.
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      - weneedhelp (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:07am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        We wouldn't like you when you are angry.
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        Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:13am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Yeah, we don't need him to "go green" on us and lose a few dozen points of IQ along the way, plus impulse control. We already have AJ to cover that role.
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        Zakida Paul (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:19am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        I can't afford to lose IQ points. I'm a bit short as it is.
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        Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:32am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        You'll regain them after you return to normal. In your case, the loss is temporary.
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        Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:52pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Left wingers never return toe normal.
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        Niall (profile), 19 Jun 2013 @ 3:52am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        That's ok, I'm sure they don't want to return to any 'normal' that compares to right-wingers. After all, who wants to be compared to the bloke who 'goes Hulk' and *gains* IQ? ;)
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  - Michael, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:27am
    
    Re: Re:
    If you continue to type that, you are going to have black helicopters hovering over your house dropping ICE agents to explain just how little you are about to have to hide.
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    - Zakida Paul (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:29am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Let them try, the big green Hulk has a surprise for them.
      
      Shite, have I just incurred the wrath of Hollywood as well?
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- art guerrilla (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:38pm
  
  Re:
  actually, john bolton is *our* evil minion of doom...
  
  slime from way back, i am CERTAIN there are more than a few 'smoking guns' (figuratively if not literally) in the intel pile that has this fucks fingerprints on it...
  
  gee, wonder why that POS doesn't want any more leaks...
  *snort*
  
  art guerrilla
  aka ann archy
  eof
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:47pm
  
  Re:
  The point is that the US's known stance on Chinese governmental wiretapping and activities can no longer be held up as negatives by the US government.
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:32pm
  
  Re:
  The author of that column, John Bolton, is an American.
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  - Pragmatic, 19 Jun 2013 @ 6:07am
    
    Re: Re:
    He's a right-wing authoritarian conspiracy theorist who subscribes to Dominionism, if memory serves. It's a massive case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:06am

I was going to comment, but then realized the NSA is watching me...
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- Michael, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:30am
  
  Re:
  They are not watching you.
  
  They are reading your email, tracking your movements, and noting everything about all of your phone calls.
  
  The new xbox gives them the ability to watch.
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  - DrS, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:47am
    
    Re: Re:
    But not the 2 cameras on the two phones in my house?
    Not the 2 tablets with 3 total cameras?
    Not the 2 personal laptops with cameras?
    Not the work laptop with a camera?
    
    I'm sure those are all completely unhackable.
    
    Heck, with the work one, they might not even have to work that hard. Everyone trusts their employer, right?
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    - Michael, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:51am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Everyone trusts their employer, right?
      
      If you knew what company I work for, the humor factor in that would have skyrocketed.
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      - Zakida Paul (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:00am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Same here. Is there anyone who actually trusts their employer?
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        Michael, 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:06am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Small business owners.
        
        Luckily, in the current financial state, they are becoming quickly extinct.
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        DrS, 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:14am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Incredibly naive people.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:05pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Your computer must be a very old one. All modern computers come with a camera they can monitor you.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:42pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Bit of tape, or folded paper as a lens cap fixes that problem.
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weneedhelp (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:09am

the mental cost of drones
Coming to a US city near you.
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RyanNerd (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:17am

Reminds me of 1984
Don't be guilty of a "Face Crime" (such as not looking happy when Big Brother has a victory).

Sad really, it breaks my heart to watch as America continues to tumble more and more down into an unconstitutional Police State.
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- Michael, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:25am
  
  Re: Reminds me of 1984
  That needs to be updated to a "Facebook Crime" - not posting on Facebook that you are happy about a Big Brother victory.
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:29am
  
  Re: Reminds me of 1984
  The death of Kim Jong Il in North Korea? 1984 is reality to some extend...
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- Anonymous Coward, 19 Jun 2013 @ 6:27am
  
  Re: Reminds me of 1984
  Its not a police state, it's called Fascism.
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Michael, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:24am

Knowing The Government Is Spying On You Changes How You Act

That is complete bunk.

Knowing the government is spying on you means you are probably going to have to deny that the government is spying on you so you cannot possibly admit that your actions have been changed by the spying. So, this is completely impossible to study if it were to ever happen.

I mean, what spying? My government? No way. That is reserved for communist nations and dictatorships.
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:32am
  
  Re:
  You can study people with clinical paranoia. Seems to be a common occurance on this site.
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  - Michael, 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:47am
    
    Re: Re:
    Just because someone is paranoid does not mean they are wrong.
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    - John Fenderson (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:16pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Actually, yes, it does. If they are right, then they aren't paranoid by definition.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:18pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Yes it does. That is the distinction between being paranoid and someone being out to get you.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:31am

Duh!
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 10:48am

those in positions of government and of power with the 'ear of the government' are interested in nothing other than what they want. they are not interested in what they have to do to achieve what they want. they are not interested in what has to be given up, lost or taken away to achieve what they want. this is a clear example of everything a government and a nation should NOT be doing!! but when the person most interested in doing this is nothing but an egotistical prat, expect no let up!
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Sammy, 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:01am

Second Amendment
I used to think the US was a gun crazy state with the Second Amendment.

Well I think it is time for the true meaning of that amendment
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Rapnel (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:14am

Think of the Children!
How about now? Can we actually think of the children now?
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Wolfy, 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:24am

Cameras hacked?
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wolfy, 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:25am

cameras hacked?
A little piece of tape over the lens will fix that.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 11:44am

Why is he so desperate to censor this post??

See it for yourselves...

http://bit.ly/14gT9mc

More to come. Plenty more.
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- Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 7:59pm
  
  Re:
  This is a private, non-government site. Mike has the right to deny you access. By circumventing his attempts to deny you access, you are in violation of the law. According to most of the trolls around here it doesn't matter how easy it was to circumvent his measures, you are guilty and should be hung. How does it feel to be a filthy hacker criminal?
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Rekrul, 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:31pm

If Snowden really wanted to derail the NSA domestic surveillance program, he should have used his access to record some phone calls by top members of congress and then released them.

Maybe hearing their private calls made public would get them off their asses.
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- art guerrilla (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:40pm
  
  Re:
  *that* would have been awesome...
  ...until they droned him
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art guerrilla (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 12:43pm

i object...
*NOT* because an innocent person will feel surveilled...

*NOT* because it will change how we live...

*NOT* because it is expensive bullshit for no good return...

i object because it is MORALLY WRONG and constitutionally horrific, *regardless* of any/all good/bad consequences...

i know, i know, morals are so last millennium...

art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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- John Fenderson (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 1:00pm
  
  Re: i object...
  Nailed it!
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 2:24pm

When you have no real downtime -- no time when you can be free from prying eyes, it messes with your brain in a really profound way.

Do you realize you've just made the case against Christianity?
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jun 2013 @ 3:38pm

See the link that Mike is desperate to censor: http://rdd.me/e9cd9hqe

Mr. Freedom hates that his constituents even know this link exists.

More to come!
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Anonymous, 18 Jun 2013 @ 5:02pm

It makes me even more rebellious.
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BentFranklin (profile), 18 Jun 2013 @ 8:02pm

This article is the best counterpoint to anyone who brags they have nothing to hide.
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Mike Gogulski, 29 Jun 2013 @ 5:42am

drifting?
"As we seem to be drifting rapidly towards such a surveillance state..."

Mike, Mike, buddy... there is no more drifting. We were talking about drifting during the 1990s. The surveillance state is here. It's no longer a matter of transition or potentiality. Pervasive surveillance is now part of the background context. All that comes next is that it transforms from something notable as new into worth discussing only in the terms we use to address changes in the weather.
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