UK Prime Minister Calls ask.fm A 'Vile Site,' Blames It For The Behavior Of Some Vile Users
from the a-bigger-target-is-always-easier-to-hit dept
Another tragedy in the UK and Prime Minister David Cameron has moved swiftly to ensure the moment doesn't pass without comment. As is Cameron's standard m.o., he has sent his mouth ahead as an advance party, allowing his intellect and reasoning to arrive at their leisure.
The impetus for Cameron's latest blast is the suicide of a 14-year-old girl who was apparently bullied by other users of teen-heavy social site, ask.fm. And like his earlier attacks on various web entities, triggered by the kidnapping and murder of a 5-year-old girl, Cameron blames the acts of individuals on third parties.
Internet users should boycott "vile" websites that allow cyberbullying to help prevent more deaths of young people, the prime minister has said.Calling for a boycott isn't the issue. This is a perfectly acceptable response, although slightly less so when the head of a nation does it, which adds a hint of censorship to the proceedings. No, it's the fact that Cameron believes the sites themselves (no others are named at this point) are "vile," mistaking (perhaps purposely) that ask.fm, in and of itself, is neutral at worst. It's the users, and then only a small subset of them, that are "vile."
David Cameron asked parents to boycott sites that granted bullies unmoderated access to young people and said those who posted abuse online were not above the law.
There are many sites on the web that normal people would consider "vile," like theYNC.com or, for that matter, LiveLeak, which shows plenty of uncensored videos depicting very graphic violence. A social media site that allows users to ask questions and receive answers from nearly anyone is prone to be abused by trolls and sociopaths, but the site itself is not "vile."
Cameron added more to that, some of it even reasonable.
He urged website operators to act responsibly to protect children from bullies, following the death of 14-year-old Hannah Smith, who killed herself on Friday after receiving abuse on Ask.fm.There's nothing wrong with asking websites to provide more moderation but government officials asking/demanding this sort of compliance need to be aware that not every site will have the financial or technical ability to monitor incoming content with an efficiency that will please any aggreived parties. In fact, no site, no matter how well-funded can hope to achieve this. Abuse can and will slip through the cracks.
Even a behemoth like Facebook is unable to control every instance of offensive behavior that occurs under its purview. This is just part of the territory. If you provide a service for millions of users, abuse is inevitable. This is because you're serving human beings, some of whom are truly amoral.
Calling the site "vile" simply shifts all of the blame (in a very official manner) to ask.fm, something Cameron really has no business doing. But this is how he handles the web -- it's the biggest target's fault. Child porn is the fault of search engines. Abusive behavior is the fault of ask.fm.
Even if ask.fm's moderation efforts were the very least it could do, it's ridiculous to think it should be responsible for abusive messages sent by its users. It should make a real effort to moderate more of its users' messages, but at some point it will hit a wall in effectiveness, especially considering how popular the service is. Pushing it to do more than it can capably handle will only result in overreactions that will curtail its usefulness for its members.
Cameron's call for a boycott is already having an effect. Many advertisers are pulling out of the site. Someone may want to ask Cameron how ask.fm is supposed to better police its users when its revenue streams are swiftly drying up and its user base is being warned away by the Prime Minster himself.
If it continues in this fashion, chances are ask.fm will just go under. People who buy into Cameron's projection of user behavior as the behavior of the site itself will be happy. People who think the site offered nothing but bullying will feel they've won a battle. But those abusive users, who won't be affected by boycotts, outrage or a sudden lack of revenue will just go elsewhere and abuse other people. After all, they're not on the radar. Only the hosts are.
Cameron points out there are laws against the sort of bullying behavior that reportedly occurred on ask.fm and that "just because it happened on the internet," those behind the bullying shouldn't expect to be above those laws. Good points, but they're points Cameron's ignoring. There are laws in place against this behavior, but those have to be deployed against the offending users, something Cameron talks about, but doesn't seem very inclined to actually pursue.
Attacking the nameplate out front is easy and usually results in some very visible, if skin deep, changes by the entities being attacked. And why not? The attack itself is only skin deep. It's easier than dealing with the underlying issues or asking people to take personal responsibility for themselves or their children. It's also easier than explaining to someone post-tragedy that terrible people inhabit the world and it's impossible to prevent all of them from ever harming others.
This is Cameron hanging the web in effigy, nothing more. Any perceived effects will only last until the crowd wanders away.
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Filed Under: david cameron, free speech, liability, secondary liability, suicide, uk
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Attacking the nameplate out front is easy and usually results in some very visible, if skin deep, changes by the entities being attacked. And why not? The attack itself is only skin deep. It's easier than dealing with the underlying issues or asking people to take personal responsibility for themselves or their children. It's also easier than explaining to someone post-tragedy that terrible people inhabit the world and it's impossible to prevent all of them from ever harming others.
Dealing with the real offenders would require a competent Government.
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Vile?
David Cameron might not realise this, but the archaic use of the word 'vile' was to mean "of little worth or value".
So it's fair to say that David Cameron's contributions to the internet have all been pretty vile to date.
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Re: Vile?
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When I was younger I was bullied, in school admittedly, and I was taught by my parents that words are just words and nothing more.
Obviously the parents want to blame the bullies as they are the ones who cause the initial hurt but the parents need to make their teenagers open up to them (I know its very difficult) as it is a very important lesson to learn to ignore this kind of abuse as it happens all the time throughout life, not just at school.
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The whole country has become a nation of children.
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That makes it an entirely different kettle of fish. I'm actually seeing a strong echo of "attack the 'internet' anytime anything goes wrong" (Which I personally got pissed with in the 90's) in David Camerons politics. Or in other words, pure dirty distraction politics and nothing else.
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That would make Ask.fm's point moot.
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However, if the school wasn't fully aware of what was going on, than the perpetrators would need to be the ones who faced justice (NOT vengeance).
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202 abusive messages, 4 came from other ip's. 198 came from "her own computer".
That was a mixed up messed up kid. I have no doubt she was bullied at school, and probably at home, and had a horrible life. But did she kill herself because of being bullied on Ask.fm? No.. Ask.fm (in this case) is nothing except someone that David Cameron can blame.
Blaming the Internet, or blaming the latest evil from the Internet for the causing someone to do something that someone else doesn't like is a subject that has come up here before.
I've said a bit about over the years, but it doesn't really matter. As I said in the first post, it's pure distraction politics.
The domestic political program isn't going to well -or all the pesky reports about American spying are starting to hurt the UK Gov- so therefore blame "The Internet" for something, start the media jumping up and down, announce an inquiry, and the new laws. And then say "haven't we been good Mp's and working hard" and most of the sheeple will have totally forgotten about the earlier stuff.
Nasty, but -in most cases- it works. So they keep doing it (at least in England..)
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Never let a serious crisis go to waste
Boston Marathon bombing - Police State in Boston
Sandy Hook - Calls for gun control
Child Porn - Government "Active Choice" which isn't a choice.
14yr old Suicide - Internet control and moderation
I could go on. Anytime there is an emotionally charged issue that can be perceived as a problem that the Government is called on to "do something" we end up with less freedom and more Government powers.
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Re: Never let a serious crisis go to waste
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Re: Re: Never let a serious crisis go to waste
You're compromised.
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When you built a community and have a problem, ask for help from the community
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Re: When you built a community and have a problem, ask for help from the community
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Cameron's next step
"Cameron lambasts evil telephone provider for nuisance phone call"
"Cameron angered by diabolic postal service for poison pen letters"
As much as I approve of some of his politics, when it comes to the Internet he is an absolute idiot.
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Cop beats a suspect for no good reason, start dancing.
Someone misuses public funds, start dancing.
Etc etc...
Hopefully he'll be so out of breath he will stop saying stupid things, get a firsthand understanding of why what he is demanding others do is stupid, and leave office to take over the lead in Lord of the Dance.
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He who casts the first stone
Interesting. Here's a list of things that Cameron, by his own logic, is accountable for - http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/legal-aid/eligibility/list-of-criminal-offences.pdf
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Wat an idiot...
It is VERY sad that this girl felt that this was the only way out. I do not in any way want to make light of this, HOWEVER... The internets is not at fault. It is not ask.fm's fault. It is the people who used ask.fm and send the messages who is at fault. Also, what is the matter with people... If you do not like porn, do not go to the pornsites. If you are getting bullied on a website, dont go there... How freaking hard is that.
Thousands die every year because of car accidents. Lets ban cars... What about the ocean... People die there too. Lets just lock everyone up for their own safety.
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Re: Wat an idiot...
I Robot.
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Re: Wat an idiot...
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Also, before you stop using the site, you could make that bullying known to site admin/ operators. Passive\/Acitve
>:-D
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Hmmm.....
Sometimes I am ashamed to be British.
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Seems like a warmup to the same old game.
In very short order you have an extremely compelling reason for sites to simply not allow anonymous use and an attempt to normalise being identifiable online. Which of course won't even stop bullying... it's very easy to identify who's bullying who in schools and yet that, strangely, remains a problem... but I really don't think that's the point.
This is another case of the government using "think of the children" to push for a change that would be completely ineffectual for that goal but is really attempting to do something completely unrelated. It makes me feel a bit sick actually.
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Re: Seems like a warmup to the same old game.
The truth is that the majority need to stop 'minding their own business' and get involved when they see or hear something bad like bullying. Currently only a small number of people speak out and the rest of us are stuck living with rules built on those opinions. As long as the silent majority remains silent they will never be appropriately represented in government.
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So if ask.fm doesn't control its site, blame Cameron!
"Even if ask.fm's moderation efforts were the very least it could do, it's ridiculous to think it should be responsible for abusive messages sent by its users." -- It's not responsible for the sending, but for leaving them up...
"[ask.fm] should make a real effort to moderate more of its users' messages, but at some point it will hit a wall in effectiveness, especially considering how popular the service is." -- OOH! I'll do a little "triangulating" here 'cause that sounds directly opposite Mike's notions that "platforms" have NO responsibility whatsoever.
"Cameron's call for a boycott is already having an effect. Many advertisers are pulling out of the site. Someone may want to ask Cameron how ask.fm is supposed to better police its users when its revenue streams are swiftly drying up and its user base is being warned away by the Prime Minster himself." Oh, boo hoo! a) Any business better have cash reserves to handle downturns for whatever causes*. b) It's obviously not just Cameron blustering, but widespread agreement that causes the loss.
[* I'll take the perhaps self-serving ask.fm statement with large doubt, as whatever the source, vile is vile. My comments above are on equally off-original-topic points that the minion raises.]
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Re: So if ask.fm doesn't control its site, blame Cameron!
It's a good idea for a website to curate it's comments but they should not be legally responsible for them. Does that help?
I'm not sure how an company can be expected to hold enough cash in reserve to deal with a mass exodus of customers.
I also don't think you're really aware of how much weight the masses put on the words of leaders.
Good work for not even dropping the G bomb today.
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Why does he expect others to do more than he will?
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Lets ban cars while we're at it
If you don't support outlawing cars then you're supporting 'vile' drug dealers and criminals!
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Re: Lets ban cars while we're at it
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nazi's are running the world
someone has been killed with a pencil quick lets make pencils illegal...
someone has been killed with a hammer , quick lets ban hammers
YA see where this leads and why it looks so stupid...
i hear oxygen is giving these creatures on earth the ability to kill others...we NEED TO BAN OXYGEN
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I'm glad I'm not a politician
And I'm absolutely sure I couldn't then blame someone entirely different for it. Not with a straight face at least.
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Help has arrived!!!!
So the NSA has a monitoring program to assist with that on a global scale.
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David Cameron
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2389212/Hannah-Smith-Suicide-teen-trolled-say-La tvian-website-chiefs-Ask-fm.html
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Paying attention to abuse
When a website that houses a social network is brought to the attention of abusive, careless verbal attacks against its users or by its users and acts without reguard to the abuse, then there is a problem. That is no crack in the wall.
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Bullies?
And who is protecting the children from bullying text messages right now? Or bullying phone calls? Wonder how the phone companies would react to a similar call for them to moderate text messages and phone calls! They have an even better argument about scale.
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