Signs Of The Times: Ohio School Hosts 'Counter-Terrorism' Bus Hijacking Drill
from the our-old-nemesis,-fear,-conquered-and-re-established-yet-again dept
Nothing makes schools safer than preparing for eventualities that will likely never happen. Fire drills may seem mostly useless, but fires are still common enough that a little precaution is a good idea, especially since schoolchildren tend to rank nears cats on the Herdibility Index.
But a simple fire drill can't teach today's kids about the number one threat to buses and bus safety -- a hijacking by some sort of terrorist.
Leonore Skenazy at Free Range Kids finds the whole thing (correctly) baffling.
Yes, it's a terrorist drill on a school bus.Compare that writeup with 13abc.com's, which makes it sound like those excluded from the "counter-terrorism" drill are some of the unluckiest students alive.
I truly could not understand from this report (or Googling) if the students knew the attack was fake or not. They probably did, or just imagine the lawsuits. Nonetheless, it is nothing less than bizarre that while they were being "hijacked," school administrators and sundry responsible adults sat in folding chairs in a parking lot across town watching a big-screen live feed of the event.
And then, as the audience watched, into that lot drove — the bus! A waiting SWAT team took over, puncturing the bus tire and "liberating" the hostages.
ROSSFORD, Ohio - A training exercise this Rossford Wednesday morning left students literally hanging on to the edge of their seats.This is most notable for its injudicious (and apparently sincere) use of an exclamation point, which makes it sound more like a sudden but somewhat expected turn of events in a lousy YA novel rather than a bit of perverse showmanship in servitude to the War on Terror. Skenazy points out that the DHS considers bus drivers to be point men in our nation's anti-terrorist efforts, as buses are theoretically "soft targets" for attention-seeking hijackers.
In the scenario: A school bus is en route to an event when suddenly it's hijacked! A camera inside the bus captured the whole thing while an audience of school teachers, administrators and transportation directors watched it all unfold on a live feed.
The hijacker even tied some of the students up and told them to keep their heads down. The bus eventually ended up at Owens Center for Emergency Preparedness.That's where first responders and SWAT teams were ready to move in.
Now, the kids who participated were informed that something out of the ordinary would be happening during this bus trip to a parking lot according to Chief of Police Glenn Goss:
Thank you for your concern for the students and children within our school district and community. I too would be concerned for any child who unwittingly was held hostage, tied up and threatened at gunpoint. The problem is: none of this happened.There it is again -- the baseless claim that a bus hijacking is "very possible in our world today." And the addition of "our world today" makes it clear that Goss has bought everything the DHS is selling -- that we are in infinitely more danger today than we were pre-9/11. The more "dangerous" our world is, the more "necessary" these training exercises are, and the more "necessary" they are, the less likely anyone is to roll back policies or cut off funding.
This was a well planned training exercise in which all participants (children and bus driver included) knew well in advance that they were participating in a training exercise to prepare for such an event to take place – which is very possible in our world today.
Each student and participant signed waivers that acknowledged their participation in this training.
And, make no mistake, this drill had everything to do with the War on Terror.
The Rossford Police Department is very proud to be part of a community that prepares for such incidents, even though we hope we never encounter them. Our proactive approach to counter-terrorism, active killers and other such incidents hopefully will save lives in the future…especially the lives of our children.Thank god for the "proactive approach." It allows agencies like this to advance the notion that kids should live in fear and trust their government. And it's nice to know that "active killers" are being prepared for. I would hate to see federal dollars being thrown at "inactive killers," the kind that can't be bothered to load their weapons, much less get off the couch. Altogether, the whole thing looks like nothing more than an excuse to break out the SWAT gear and let the locals know where all those tax dollars went. It does absolutely nothing to make anyone safer.
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Filed Under: ohio, school kids, terrorists, training
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Though, we're probably not getting the full story of the students who pretended to have one using their hand or the crafty girl who chewed her sandwich into the shape of an AK47.
Sign of the times indeed.
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Ahem. Terrorism and "for the children" used at the same time. Must be some sort of double hyper combo..
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Terrorism
- ineluctably political in aims and motives
- violent – or, equally important, threatens violence
- designed to have far-reaching psychological repercussions beyond the immediate victim or target
- conducted by an organization with an identifiable chain of command or conspiratorial cell structure (whose members wear no uniform or identifying insignia) and
- perpetrated by a subnational group or non-state entity.
Terrorism is defined as political violence in an asymmetrical conflict that is designed to induce terror and psychic fear (sometimes indiscriminate) through the violent victimization and destruction of noncombatant targets (sometimes iconic symbols). Such acts are meant to send a message from an illicit clandestine organization. The purpose of terrorism is to exploit the media in order to achieve maximum attainable publicity as an amplifying force multiplier in order to influence the targeted audience(s) in order to reach short- and midterm political goals and/or desired long-term end states
Do you know any such organizations?
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But we are...
But we are. From our own govt.
Sorry for the empty post above.
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I wouldn't be so hasty....
While I can't agree with the DHS's excuse for doing this, I can say that school bus hijackings have happened more frequently than you think.
By the way, the "it's never going to happen" attitude only keeps us unprepared for such events. It's not as if the state of Ohio or the city of Rossford are being unreasonable. They're just beimg prepared.
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Re:
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Re: Terrorism
NSA,FBI,DHS,TSA,DEA,ICE,DOJ,FOP
Well at least they are not all four letter words....
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SWAT toys
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Perfect
Now we're literally training our kids to be victims.
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Re: Re:
You sure that was the News - maybe you dropped off to sleep and then the movie started...
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Re: Terrorism
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Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
[citation needed]
In reality schools are amongst the most common buildings to be set on fire - but school bus hijackings - never heard of a single instance.
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Re: Perfect
given that a waiver is a document that absolves responsibility if something goes wrong it seems we're admitting that the cure might be more dangerous than the disease!
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Look over your shoulder, that guy could be a commie! Better report him to be safe.
I guess the real silver lining in all of this is that it prepares kids for SWAT teams kicking in their doors pointing guns everywhere. That is more likely to happen to them than a terrorist hijacking.
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1994 Style
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Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
"School bus hijackings happen as often as school fires"
"I can say that school bus hijackings have happened more frequently than you think."
OK, you need a citation for that, by which I mean you are just wrong. How many school bus hijackings have occurred in the US in the past 30 years? How many school fires? Also, the "fire" drill can be useful as a generic "evacuation" drill. The bus hijacking drill? Useless for the students, who are probably simply told to follow the orders of the hijackers and then follow the orders of police.
I suppose that, while useless for the students, this may be mildly useful for SWAT team training. Although their solution was to first puncture the bus tires. Wouldn't that be the signal for a terrorist to just start shooting the kids?
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Re: Re: Terrorism
Maybe the Parks Department is ok?
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Re:
And that was a totally realistic depiction of what could happen, especially the part where the bus jumped the bridge gap under construction. In a similar fashion, I'm convinced the simulated school bus rescue was completely realistic.
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Re: Re: Terrorism
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Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
Wally is often as bad as AJ.
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Re:
Except the kids are not actually under high stress. They aren't necessarily going to act the same way when confronted with an actual terrorist. For example, no kid would jump out of a moving bus during a simulation, or attempt to attack the hijacker, but they might during the real thing if they saw an opportunity.
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History repeats itself all over again
The cold war was over, the old revenue streams were drying up, then, "Terrorism!!!"
Now they're inducting the next generation. Never too early to plant the seeds of fear in the hearts and minds of people.
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Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
I think a better drill would be if the school district administrators and other public officials who dreamed up this charade were subjected to being terrorized (bound wrists, duck taped mouths, berated, kicked, etc) on a school bus.
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Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
Obviously when governments are invested
in maximizing the breadth and maximum
take, the key goals in constructing the
architecture of monopoly, from the
following scheme:
Privatize The Profits, Socialize The Costs.
Marry To Monopoly For Maximum Effect.
Cost Brake With Simpson-Bowles.
Use The Adversity As A Profit Center.
Where Sufficiently Severe, Use To Privatize.
(Except Today Pre-Texted Ready-
Privatization’s Been Invented.)
they need more than obfuscation as to
the above.
Making people see demons instead of
seeing through the above is facilitated
by the fact that it encourages and elicits
the very things our mental health professionals
work to reduce, like paranoia.
Though These Kids Look
Impressively Level, I Think Others
May Be Expected To Internalize
Fear And Control As Being Some
Kind Of Normal State.
To Me, For These Kids, It
Should Hardly Matter Whether
The Control's Coming From The
Imagined Threat, When GMO's Are
A Real Threat (See Below,) Or
If It's These Police Exerting The
Control.
All Irrationalities And Hurtful Or
Unfair Causes Are Traceable And
Nothing Should Cause Anyone To
Spend A Moment Knowing
Anything But Being
Relaxed And Carefree.
Meanwhile, Back At The Farm,
While Those Cops Are Scaring The
Wits Out Of Our Children Till
Someone Hands Them A Sangria
http://www.vinoandfriends.com/files/9013/6803/7587/sangria.jpg
To Chill And Stop Seeing Demons,
Across The Pond They're
Preoccupied With Annoying
Fathers And Sons.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396222/Branded-paedophile-hiking-son-WILL-SELF-revea ls-nightmare.html
Meanwhile, They Reflect A
Curious Observation Fail.
The Oligarchs Are Simultaneously
Monopolizing And Destroying Our
Sustenance And Jeopardizing Their
Own Kids' Habitats (With Destruction
Currently The Safer Bet.)
And While It Only Takes One
Disgruntled Group To Justify In The
Minds Of Some A World Of Control And
Fear, Though That Happens To Also Be
The Political System Of Gangsters, The
Above Also Implies Not Simply Fear And
Control Replacing Democracy And
Freedom To Associate With People And
One's Son, But -0- Prospect Of
Regaining A Relaxed And Carefree
Absent Relief From The Paranoia And
Inner Hurts Of The Disgruntled.
I've Proposed Mimicing The
Counselor/Capt.
http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/21900000/Deanna-Troi-star-trek-the-next-ge neration-21949623-1024-768.jpg
Duopoly From Star
Trek, Balancing The Obnoxiousness,
And Balancing The "Equities," As A
New Approach To Foreign Affairs,
Wherein Mental Health Professionals
Join The Process Of The Diplomatic
Search For Commonalities. That
Defines A Radical Departure In Its Own
Right. Though Diplomacy Is Supposed
To Be About Seeking Commonalities,
Obviously The Oligarchs Prefer Divisions.
The More The Merrier.
But The Converse Of Only One Tiny
Disgruntled Group Ostensibly Having At
Its Disposal The Basis For The End Of
Democracy Is Our Having A Simultaneous
Universality Of Winners Or Losers.
One Small Band Makes Us All Losers
By That Formula. If They Don't Destroy
A City, The Oligarchs Will Destroy A World.
They Depend On Angry People Suffering
Classic Unsettled Hurts, It Seems, And
Who See Demons. Of Course We Do
Have Bad People--Rich Frauds Foreclosing
Our Children's World.
The People Hiring Trolls To Divide Are
The People In The House We Know
Have Some Kind Of Problem. Hiring
People To Divide Others Is Not Sociable.
When Chileans Say They Don't Want
GMO's From A Cartel They Don't
Trust And It's Forced Upon Them,
Something Radically New Is Happening.
It's Economic.
Companies In The Past Found Success
By Wooing Customers.
Forcing Products On Them Is Glaringly A
Different Economic System.
It's Something In Mental Health.
When Someone Forces Himself On
Others, Is That Not Rape?
These Are Issues That Actually Only
Qualified People Are Able To Handle.
Frankly, To This Day I'm Still Astounded
By Mental Health Professionals' Ability
To Do Their Job.
Some Control Freaks Are Half Informed.
Others Are Put Up To It.
Others Knew Control And Fear In Their
Homes. Others Are Angry.
When A Doctor First Meets A
Patient She's Confronted With
Essentially An Infinity Of Possibilities,
Though There're Certainly
Common Problems.
None Is A Basis For Judging, Though
That's All They Know.
Some Can't Hear A Joke Being Told
But Defensively. It's Their Lives
Lost First. Pity Them. Some
Might've Been Poets.
Mental Health Is About Just So
Much More Health Status And
Morbidity, And Not Judging, Though
The Latter May Characterize The
Patient's Compulsions.
Why Arming Teachers Is Also A
Process Of Predictably Having
Teachers Accidentally Shoot
Your Kids:
http://pages.citebite.com/i1i2f8m1y4ubq
(I'd Worry More About
The Kids Eating This.)
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=australia+gmo%27s+pigs+stomach+inflammation
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Re:
1) It is not a valid test when the subject is aware of the test.
2) It is certainly not acceptable to subject children to such experimentation - ever. The end does not justify the means.
3) It shows questionable judgment to subject adults to subject adults to these types of "drills". Several instances have occurred in the past, those responsible received many well deserved condemnations.
Oh - I have a good idea, let's fly attack helicopters over a major metropolitan city while shooting blanks from our awesome fully automatic weapons. This is going to be great!
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Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
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Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
Really? So these criminals are so desperate for new battering rams, flash-bangs, H&K MP5s, etc., that they'll stick-up a bus full of brats for their lunch money?
I find that rather far-fetched, considering that the kingpins set the tax rates, and their lieutenants in the DHS have thus far supplied their enforcers and street-soldiers with whatever their little black hearts desire.
On the other hand, from a moral perspective I wouldn't put it past 'em.
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Re: Re:
There is a general problem of training people to act under high stress, and to also deal with others under stress, and this can only be carried so far
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Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
I agree ... politicians and their cronies that is.
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Re: Re: Re:
I disagree. Clearly children are being indoctrinated into the Be Afraid world constructed around them. This is really despicable, and to make excuses for it? ... holy crap.
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Re:
It saddens me that I had to mark this as insightful.
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Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
The more we practice things, the more we know what to do in an emergency. Fire Drills were an integral part of my K-5 education. Thanks to bomb threats, we knew go immediately to the safe zone if we become separated from our class. Ohio's education system requires preventative preparations for all sorts of scenarios.
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Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
I highly doubt a group of terrorist are sitting in a smokey back room talking about their master plan to hijack a Rossford city school bus in the middle of nowhere Ohio. I mean seriously, not even hard core terrorists want to actually go to Ohio.
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Our World Today?
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Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
There it is again -- the baseless claim that a bus hijacking is "very possible in our world today." And the addition of "our world today" makes it clear that Goss has bought everything the DHS is selling -- that we are in infinitely more danger today than we were pre-9/11.
First off, the State of Ohio has been implementing these types of measures since Columbine. The problem is that it is human nature to become complacent and secure if things don't happen for too long. Let's look at the key thisgs that differentiate this from any other state in the US
Rossford City School District did make sure of the safety of their students by informing them that this wasn't a typical bus ride. Now, before anyone cites 9/11-isms, they need to think about how often these things don't happen. A lot of things have happened lately to rural Ohio in the last few years to places that one would typically think nothing ever could happen. Mount Vernon, Ohio had its first 3rd degree murder in 150 years back in 2010. If you want something sachool related, Chardon, Ohio had a school shooting in 2012. Complacency towards nothing happening makes a potential target, no matter how slim the odds, to anyone who would want to take advantage of the situation. Complacency is one of the biggest issues because many schools distract in Ohio...particularly those with lower population counts...never have these sort of issues to deal with.
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Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
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Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
We may not agree on what is considered "reasonable".
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Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
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Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
Yeah - right.
Heh, some people will believe anything.
"no matter how small the probability that it can happen"
no matter how small the potential profit - ftfy
"Go piss on yourself or wake up to reality"
False dichotomy
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Re: Our World Today?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
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Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
But having a known plan may also make you a target. Sounds crazy, but it can be true. For example, I think it was Columbine where students were evacuated from the building and then were sitting ducks because the door was locked behind them. It worked because the killers knew the procedure that would be followed.
And students cannot prepare for a bus hijacking. Tell, me, if your bus is hijacked, what is the proper thing to do? Try to sneak out your phone and dial 911? Try to exit through the back door and run? Have the football team try to tackle the hijacker? Just sit back and let it happen? This depends on so many factors that you cannot simply run a drill and say you've prepared those students.
I suppose you could run multiple drills and really, really train those students for all scenarios. Awesome. Maybe next you can prepare your students for what do to if they win over ten million in the lottery. That's probably got a better chance of actually happening to them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
1. They gave students a fair warning that something out of the ordinary was going to happen.
2. They conducted it in a manner that told the students that in these types of situations, they need to keep calm and diligent and aware to their surroundings to be able to take advantage of the opportunity to escape.
3. The drill was conducted in the same manner that a school bus fire drill would have occurred. Only this time it was a hostage situation.
This is no less reasonable than practicing for bomb threats, fire drills, and school lock-downs. It's not meant to fear monger children, it is meant to teach them to stay calm in an emergency situation and not try to play the hero role. The state has been doing this type of thing since the Columbine School Shooting.
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The is a Promo
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
If you had red the article...it was not a SWAT training exercise. It was a School Drill...therefore CHILDREN ARE INVOLVED BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES PRACTICING THE DRILL....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
How many people outside of the school building were shot for being outside?
"And students cannot prepare for a bus hijacking. Tell, me, if your bus is hijacked, what is the proper thing to do? Try to sneak out your phone and dial 911? Try to exit through the back door and run? Have the football team try to tackle the hijacker? Just sit back and let it happen? This depends on so many factors that you cannot simply run a drill and say you've prepared those students."
Because of the unpredictable nature of a hijacking, the best thing to do is to stay calm. The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero when they could be killed. That is why they drill procedures meant to calm people down...it stifles panic that would otherwise cause more injury. It doesn't mean students won't get upset or nervous...but at least not to the levels that would get them killed making stupidly rash decisions.
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Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
LOL - good one ... oh wait a sec. You were serious?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
You can dance around it all you like, and the audience will applaud I'm sure - but the use of children for this activity is inexcusable.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
On the thought that "oh it could never happen"...keep in mind that, until 2010, Mount Vernon, Ohio hadn't had such a gruesome murder in 150 years....yet it did happen. If you ever visited the town before 2010, you would have gotten the idea that murders do not happen in Knox County...let alone its County Seat of Mount Vernon....yet it still happened.
The reason I bring up the murder case where an entire family, save the daughter, was cut up into pieces and stuffed into a tree is because the case was solved relatively quickly. The Knox County Sheriff's Office and Mount Vernon PD's detective units were drilled over the years to deal with such cases. Matthew Hofffmen was arrested and apprehended and convicted all within a time span of 3 months due to the "unnecessary" drills those law enforcement officers used as training.
So even if things may or may not happen or seem like they aren't going to happen, they will at least be prepared for it. Given that the students were the ones being drilled, I would say that, while 9/11 is a poor excuse for it, at least the children are prepared for the situation.
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Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
By the way, you not only questioned this drill mentioned in the article as being keeping students prepared, but also questioned the "for the children" "mentality" towards fire, tornado, and lock-down drills that are also "for the children"...
You see, by your logic, since most of the fires in schools mostly only ever happen during off hours it is unnecessary to drill students in that.
Just watch the video...it was for the benefit of the students and faculty staff of the school distric. It is a bit reassuring to the students to know that someone will be there to stop the situation no?? Not entirely useless to keep calm or to be trained to be assured that help will be on the way methinks.
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Re: SWAT toys
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
That is not a question asking directly for justification. But I will answer it shorter than I did before.
Yes, Children need to be involved because they need to learn how to handle the situation in real life if a person hijacks a school bus. tHE DISTRIC IS LESS THAN 11 MINUTES AWAY from Downtown Toledo. The advantage is that they will be calm if or when it does happen to them. The intent of the board was to show that the capability to defuse a nasty situation, should it arise, is there. The reason they might not have told the students anything outside of "something different may happen on this ride to school" is to make sure that they understood this was only a drill.
Can you justify for m how it is not justifiable to "use" children in a fire drill when they are supposed to be practicing evacuation from a building...same thing only with a hostage crisis...letting whomever is in charge stay in charge of negotiations until the problem is defused.
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Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
2. great reasoning: no matter how INFINITESIMAL the chance, we should drill on it, right ? so we'll have alien invasion drills, and zombie drills, and cane toad licking drills, and meteorite drills, and, et cetera ad infinitum ad nauseum 'drills' ? ? ?
it would be easier if people just grew a pair...
you are about 8-10 times more likely to be killed by officer friendly than you are any terrorists... get a clue...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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Re: Re: Perfect
No...it only means that if they chose to participate, it was of their own free will and that the school's insurance policies wouldn't be able to cover them because of that.
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*and* if the lock-and-load crowd had their way...
bet THAT scenario is about 100 times more likely to occur than a real terrorist attack from brown-skinned natives...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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Re:
Look over your shoulder, that guy could be a commie! Better report him to be safe."
Considering how many nukes were actually built by both sides...ummm...I would say it was a fairly legitimate fear.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
I stated my opinion that this "use" of children was unnecessary, and never will be.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
Does anyone really need to explain this?
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If Scorpio tries any of that shit here in Ohio, WE GONNA BE READY!
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If Scorpio tries any of that shit here in Ohio, WE GONNA BE READY!
Perhaps the money should be spent on teaching and feeding the kids?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
This is the point:
Because of the unpredictable nature of a hijacking, the best thing to do is to stay calm. The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero where they could be killed if they dud act like one. That is why they drill procedures meant to calm people down...it stifles the panic that would otherwise cause more injury. It doesn't mean students won't get upset or nervous...but at least not to the levels that would get them killed making stupidly rash decisions.
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Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
Can you please cite who made a profit from this considering that the State of Ohio funds its schools based on local property taxes?
"
Yeah - right.
Heh, some people will believe anything."
Yup, and you believed this drill had something to do solely with 9/11 without watching the video. Quit projecting your backwater assumptions on people you deem stupid for being at least prepared.
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Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
it would be easier if people just grew a pair..."
The ones you cited are pretty much not going to happen in this lifetime. Here's the point.
Because of the unpredictable nature of a hijacking, the best thing to do is to stay calm. The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero where they could be killed if they dud act like one. That is why they drill procedures meant to calm people down...it stifles the panic that would otherwise cause more injury. It doesn't mean students won't get upset or nervous...but at least not to the levels that would get them killed making stupidly rash decisions.
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Re: *and* if the lock-and-load crowd had their way...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
Students volunteering is not the issue here.
So, by definition it is not fear mongering when there are volunteers - good to know.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
Yeah, so let's not even look into what it might take to stop, or even be aware of, such an impending event. Mankind is too stupid to do anything about it anyways and the money could be better spent destroying the planet ourselves.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
The defense industry is massive - in case you were unaware.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
"you believed this drill had something to do solely with 9/11"
Don't recall ever stating that.
"Backwater assumptions" - good one, really nailed me there huh.
Never said people should not be prepared.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
It must be in three or four of your posts now.
You should make it your signature appearing at the end of all your posts, like OOTB and his Google obsession.
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Re: If Scorpio tries any of that shit here in Ohio, WE GONNA BE READY!
You damn liberal socialist muslims are going to ruin everything.
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Re: Re: Re:
THAT is your complaint about a Bruce Willis movie? ;-)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
If there had been two school fires in the history of the United States, do you think it would be a good use of time and money to conduct fire drills at schools?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
But only those particular children involved in this drill?
tHE DISTRIC IS LESS THAN 11 MINUTES AWAY from Downtown Toledo.
And what is Toledo, the number 3,448 target for terrorist attacks? And they're only ELEVEN MINUTES AWAY??
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
There is an excellent book called Columbine that has a detailed reconstruction of the events of that day. I don't remember anything about kids being evacuated and then trying to get back into the building. In fact, I don't think any kids that got evacuated were shot. There were some fatalities outside, but IIRC they were from the initial minutes of the incident when the shooters were firing from a second floor landing, before police arrived.
Not that any of that is on topic.
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Re: Re:
Absolutely. I wonder how likely it was though to be at the right distance from an explosion that your actions could have any effect. Too far away, and it doesn't matter because you're safe anyway. Too close, and it doesn't matter because you're dead anyway.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
So it isn't "no matter how small the probability"?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
Building evacuation was actually needed in my school in a non-drill situation. It's uncommon but it happens enough that you want a plan. Bus hijacking? Seriously, how often does that happen? If you spend an hour preparing for each million-to-one scenario, you literally won't have any time left for anything else.
"The drilling makes sure that the students don't be too rash and act like a hero where they could be killed if they dud act like one."
It could very well be that their hijacker is planning to kill them, and an act of heroism is NEEDED to keep them alive. Think 9/11, where the passengers on one of the flights attempted to take the plane back. It didn't work, but sitting back likely would have resulted in them dying AND one more landmark destroyed. But hey, let's train our citizens to be docile whenever anyone threatens them.
And you insist that this was training for the students. Gee, I hope that if terrorists decide to hijack a bus in that district, they hijack THAT bus, because otherwise the students won't have had the benefit of this drill. It's not like they repeated it for every bus in the district. And if they do cooperate and hijack that particular bus, it better also be very soon, because those looked like high school students who presumably won't be using those school buses for much longer, either when they get their license or when they graduate.
For crying out loud, this was obviously training for the SWAT and first responders, NOT the students. Those people are much more likely to encounter this situation than the students. For one thing, they aren't going to graduate next year. For another, the first responders and SWAT would likely be involved in the situation if they got a call that ANY bus in the area was hijacked, instead of having to be riding on the bus at the time. It's like the difference between the odds of you personally winning the PowerBall jackpot and the odds of someone in your county winning the PowerBall jackpot.
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Re: Re: *and* if the lock-and-load crowd had their way...
Yes, clearly it's possible for the drill to go off without anyone being killed, which was not art guerilla's point.
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When a bus is hijacked, forget Willis. Call in Eastwood!
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Re: Re: Re: *and* if the lock-and-load crowd had their way...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
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A lot of things have happened before
You know what else happened before? Asteroid strikes. One hit the Earth 65 million years ago and helped kill off the dinosaurs. Another one hit Siberia in 1902. Why aren't we training our kids for this eventuality? After all, an asteroid strike can do a lot more harm than a terrorist.
You know what else happened before? Someone won the lottery. Yes, someone usually wins the lottery (just like a bus *may* get hijacked), but the chances of it happening to you are beyond slim. Check out any lottery website for the official statistics. However, we live in a society where people believe it can happen to them and they'll beat the 100-million-to-one odds and become a millionaire. I suppose if people are planning on becoming millionaires, we might as well teach our kids to plan for things that will never happen also.
I just don't get the idea of planning for something that statistically won't happen.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
The hijacking drill is a one time a year thing it seems. So it demonstrates what to do in those situations should they arise.
"Think 9/11, where the passengers on one of the flights attempted to take the plane back. It didn't work, but sitting back likely would have resulted in them dying AND one more landmark destroyed. "
Terrorists are not the only types of criminals capable of hijackings. Anyone can hijack a school bus if they are that infinitely desperate.
" For one thing, they aren't going to graduate next year. For another, the first responders and SWAT would likely be involved in the situation if they got a call that ANY bus in the area was hijacked, instead of having to be riding on the bus at the time."
They often use actors to do this sort of simulation work. They have radios that are connected to the bus station where they could talk down a hijacker. When drilling you have to cover most of the things that could happen. anyone can use twitter to do that f none of their followers are on the bus. Or simply dial 911 on their cell phones silently.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
Be afraid, be very afraid."
??? So tell me how the school profits from doing as they did. after all that was my question you failed to answer. Just to make sure we are both on the same page here, and please keep in mind that it was a local school district who set this up with the local municipality, not the other way around:
Note, people took unpaid time from their day to do this and that the industries you mention aren't paid except via contract with the local municipality and city board.
Can you please cite who made a profit from this considering that the State of Ohio funds its schools based on local property taxes?
I'm not the one wearing a tin foil hat it seems.
Note, people took unpaid time from their day to do this and that the industries you mention aren't paid except via contract with the local municipality and city board on a yearly basis for upkeep..municipalities have a finite amount of budget to work with.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
So, by definition it is not fear mongering when there are volunteers - good to know."
Fear mongering (or scaremongering or scare tactics) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle. You want a good dose of fear mongering and what it is....watch Reefer Madness on NetFlix or any negative campaign ad during the election season. Or watch this advertising campaign ad for the reelection Lyndon B Johnson implying that his opponent, Richard Nixon who vowed to keep it cool with the USSR and try to talk peace with them for a nuclear arms armistice treaty.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Commercial-LBJ1964ElectionAdDaisyGirl. ogv
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
I don't know for sure, but there's an excellent chance that this whole thing is related to a federal grant. Most likely not for the school, but for the other organizations involved. The school probably just went along because hey, why not.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
There are some people who do not recognize nor understand sarcasm. I'm not sure how to deal with this.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: *and* if the lock-and-load crowd had their way...
What do you think is implied when someone says the following:
"Joe/Jane Concealed Carry Teacher, or Joe Concerned Bystander Citizen ... start ventilating the (not so) fake terrorists"
Mouth to mouth resuscitation?
Holy crap - it's like you don't even read the post to which you respond.
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Re: A lot of things have happened before
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Appealing To Control Freaks' Many Issues With Some Chasing Demons Distracts From Monopoly Priviatization And GMO's, Which Are Hurting Kids
You obviously don't understand probability very well.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: *and* if the lock-and-load crowd had their way...
Except that with those drills there's no risk of a passerby trying to kill participants.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
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Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
Still waiting for even a shred of info to back up this preposterous claim.
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Re: Re: I wouldn't be so hasty....
You won't get any. He has silently revised his claim to "it's happened before" (which is barely true) and is now acting as though he never said it's as common as school fires.
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