Best Response To A Copyright Threat Ever? Lawyers Explain Why ABA Is Full Of S**t In Claiming Copyright On Routing Numbers
from the enjoy dept
In our time we've seen some pretty epic responses to bogus legal threats, but it appears we have a new contender for the throne. As a whole bunch of lawyers suddenly emailed me this morning, it appears there's been a followup to our earlier story on the American Bankers Association claiming that bank routing numbers are covered by copyright, and threatening a website that had created a useful way to look up those routing numbers. The website, run by Greg Thatcher, was doing a public service, getting such info from the Federal Reserve's website, and making it much easier for people to find the numbers.Thatcher is now being represented, pro bono, by Andrew Delaney of Martin & Associates, and his response letter to Nigel Howard, the lawyer from Covington & Burling LLP (the ABA's lawyer who sent the threat letter) is one of the most beautiful responses to a bogus threat letter you'll ever see. It gets bonus points for its usage of footnotes (which is to say, do not skip the footnotes). You really need to read the whole thing. I'd quote parts of the legal analysis, but you have to see the whole thing in context with the footnotes (linked above or embedded below). I will, however, quote the closing paragraph, to give you a sense of the tone of the letter:
If you do feel it's necessary to sue our client, we are open Monday through Friday from 8:00 A.M. to 6:00 P.M. and we have lollipops for people who serve process. So if you do file a complaint and send someone over with a summons, please have them wear something with a bit of purple... we all like purple.Oh, and then there's this:
© Andrew B. Delaney and Jorge V. Pivar-Federici. All rights reserved. But wait . . . fair use allowed and encouraged. Actually, go 'head and publish the whole thing as is. We don't care.Nicely done. Nicely done. I may have to send them a bag of lollipops.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: andrew delaney, copyright, facts, fair use, federal reserve, greg thatcher, nigel howard, numbers, public domain, routing numbers
Companies: aba, american bankers association
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Glaring misspelling...
...but it appears we have a new contender for the thrown.
Was this a wrestling match?
.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Glaring misspelling...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Glaring misspelling...
I have just received an apology from Mike Masnick.
Am I now a demi-God, or what?
.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Glaring misspelling...
No, you are just a guy that reported a spelling mistake.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Glaring misspelling...
You are understandably envious of my new powers. Such feelings are common in mere mortals.
.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glaring misspelling...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glaring misspelling...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Glaring misspelling...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Glaring misspelling...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Spice Girls
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Spice Girls
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
A mind is a terrible thing to waste
I think your bachelor's and expensive law degree went totally to waste.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
average_joe just hates it when due process is enforced.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
This would be so beneficial to you... It will not only show you why your a complete git (the 2nd lecture week one is a pythonesque classic) but will explain how you can also improve yourself and basically stop contradictions and ad hominem attacks to actually contribute to society.. either that or just STFU&D
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
You evidently missed the snark-dripping sarcasm and thinly-disguised (thinly-disguised only as a technique to pseudo-politely highlight) pitying condescension, embodied in both the main text and the footnotes -- and that use of those footnotes was an additional technique of "talking down" to the recipient...
It wasn't just saying "You're kidding, right?" And it was more than a "declaration of war." It was a declaration of outright, clearly merited contempt.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Well done!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
There are many ways to make the very valid points raised in the letter without poisoning the well. Feel good letters more often than not are later regretted by the writer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
There are many ways to make the very valid points raised in the letter without poisoning the well. Feel good letters more often than not are later regretted by the writer.
Interesting, though I see nothing to support that. Knowing a few lawyers who have written similar letters, they've found it to be quite good for business, as clients know that they'll get a strong backer not willing to dabble in legal bullshit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
They made history and a whole heap of clients due to it.. and the adoration of new solicitors and lawyers worldwide ever since.
In fact "I refer you to the reply given in Arkell and Pressdram" has become a well know legal phrase everywhere.
Your not an "Attorney for the Butthurt" are you by any chance?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Gah Facts the Trolls natural enemy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
AC/OOTB/Horse/AJ etc (all likely to be the same sexually-desperate loner with a frustrated yearning for Mike).
I hope this doesn't end up like Fatal Attraction.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I can just see the painted portrait of mike on your wall, the moody lighting. The screaming out. "WHHHHHY???? WHHHHHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME?!" As you collapse to the ground with tears streaming down your face.
Right, back to work.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
My Professors Would Fail The People Who Wrote This Letter.
They cited Wikipedia. That was considered an auto fail by many of my professors.
It's still an awesome letter though.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: My Professors Would Fail The People Who Wrote This Letter.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: My Professors Would Fail The People Who Wrote This Letter.
I find that kind of funny myself. I actually trust Wikipedia more than I do an encyclopedia these days.
At the very least, the fact that Wikipedia doesn't fall under the complete control of one corporate entity makes it more trustworthy in my book. Add in the fact that Wikipedia links to most of it's sources so you actually can verify the information with a click makes it even more so.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: My Professors Would Fail The People Who Wrote This Letter.
I don't know any instructor past junior high that would let you get away with using a print encyclopedia for a source, so I am not going to let a college kid do it for an electronic one.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: My Professors Would Fail The People Who Wrote This Letter.
I have had instructors who allows wikipedia as a source but not as the primary source, BUT you could comb threw the sources on the wikipedia artical and link them, and it was fine.
made me laugh..
did have one that would fail if you even mentioned wikipedia in class, but gave me an a+ on a paper I did about wikipedia and the fact that time and time again its been found to be just as if not more reliable then dead tree encyclopedias(both are known to contain errors, dif being wikipedia can be fixed quickly and easily.....paper book cant)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: My Professors Would Fail The People Who Wrote This Letter.
If they can't manage change, then there is no way in Hell they would be keeping up with the latest scientific developments....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
re: print encyclopedia
Huh?!? It wasn't that long ago, print encyclopedias were the fucking gold standard, till wikipedia showed up.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: My Professors Would Fail The People Who Wrote This Letter.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: My Professors Would Fail The People Who Wrote This Letter.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: My Professors Would Fail The People Who Wrote This Letter.
Except this wasn't a letter written to a professor, and it was obviously included for comedic effect.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: My Professors Would Fail The People Who Wrote This Letter.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Too scared to actually discuss anything that matters with a critic, and too dishonest to admit that he routes known critics' posts to the spam filter.
What a fucking joke. What a fucking pussy.
Anytime, Mikey. Anytime. But you and I both know that you'll never be man enough.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
You're, like, a douche, and stuff.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Not here. I don't care the slightest bit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
You are too dishonest to admit that you are not a critic.
Your spam, ignorance, inaccuracies, personal attacks and sometimes just outright lies are rightly filtered.
An honest critic would have something constructive to express in an adult fashion.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Before we know it this sites been renamed TechDirty and its just a serious of pictures of Mike + OOTB in bed together.
(Obvious Mike by this point is heavily sedated and foot-cuffed to the bed)....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The fact that day after day you and your type troll, bringing nothing to the argument other than that you hate Mike and everything he says, has become tiresome.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
A lollipop design with a copyright "c" marked out like a no-smoking sign.
When should we expect them? Can we pre-order?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
That.
The footnotes are the funniest part.
Whenever I need a copyright lawyer, Andrew Delaney and Jorge Pivar-Federici are the first people I'm going to call - just so I can pay them to read their letters.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
watch it guys captain badass found our lair of lulz.
(What a fucking joke. What a fucking pussy)
*plays worlds smallest violin* do you feel sad sir?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Nah, that's not Captain Badass.
It's just AJ starting early on his holiday weekend drinking binge.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
سمَـَّوُوُحخ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ امارتيخ ̷̴̐خ
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: سمَـَّوُوُحخ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ امارتيخ ̷̴̐خ
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: سمَـَّوُوُحخ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ امارتيخ ̷̴̐خ
source: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/08/rendering-bug-crashes-os-x-and-ios-apps-with-string-of-arabic-c haracters/
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I doubt they did as good a job for their reputation than they think.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
a semi-honest parasite, er, lawyer ! ! !
didn't think i'd live to see the day...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
DAMN DAMN DAMN!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]