Surprise: Republican Party Says NSA Surveillance Programs Are Unconstitutional And Must End
from the didn't-see-that-coming dept
As we've noted many times in the past, unlike most sites that cover politicians, we have a policy in which we don't name the party of a politician unless that point is key to the story. We've found that this leads to a more intellectually fulfilling discussion, where people focus more on the ideas and statements, rather than reverting automatically to stereotypes, pro or con, about a particular political party. However, there are times when the party affiliation is a key part of the story, and this is clearly one of those: the Republican National Committee, basically the party's leadership, has passed a resolution condemning the NSA's bulk collection of phone records and explicitly declaring the program a violation of the 4th Amendment. This is somewhat surprising on multiple levels, not the least of which is that the Republican party, historically, has tended to be much more supportive of the surveillance state. And yet, during the RNC's meeting, not a single member spoke against the following resolution, which then passed with an "overwhelming majority" during the voice vote:Note that they're not just talking about the Section 215 bulk collection program, but also name PRISM -- which is under Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act -- as being problematic (though, most of the resolution does focus on the Section 215 program).Resolution to Renounce the National Security Agency’s Surveillance Program
WHEREAS, the secret surveillance program called PRISM targets, among other things, the surveillance of U.S. citizens on a vast scale and monitors searching habits of virtually every American on the internet;
WHEREAS, this dragnet program is, as far as we know, the largest surveillance effort ever launched by a democratic government against its own citizens, consisting of the mass acquisition of Americans’ call details encompassing all wireless and landline subscribers of the country’s three largest phone companies;
WHEREAS, every time an American citizen makes a phone call, the NSA gets a record of the location, the number called, the time of the call and the length of the conversation, all of which are an invasion into the personal lives of American citizens that violates the right of free speech and association afforded by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution;
WHEREAS, the mass collection and retention of personal data is in itself contrary to the right of privacy protected by the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which guarantees the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, that warrants shall issue only upon probable cause, and generally prevents the American government from issuing modern-day writs of assistance;
WHEREAS, unwarranted government surveillance is an intrusion on basic human rights that threatens the very foundations of a democratic society and this program represents a gross infringement of the freedom of association and the right to privacy and goes far beyond even the permissive limits set by the Patriot Act; and
WHEREAS, Republican House Representative Jim Sensenbrenner, an author of the Patriot Act and Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee at the time of Section 215′s passage, called the Section 215 surveillance program “an abuse of that law,” writing that, “based on the scope of the released order, both the administration and the FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) court are relying on an unbounded interpretation of the act that Congress never intended,” therefore be it
RESOLVED, the Republican National Committee encourages Republican lawmakers to enact legislation to amend Section 215 of the USA Patriot Act, the state secrets privilege, and the FISA Amendments Act to make it clear that blanket surveillance of the Internet activity, phone records and correspondence — electronic, physical, and otherwise — of any person residing in the U.S. is prohibited by law and that violations can be reviewed in adversarial proceedings before a public court;
RESOLVED, the Republican National Committee encourages Republican lawmakers to call for a special committee to investigate, report, and reveal to the public the extent of this domestic spying and the committee should create specific recommendations for legal and regulatory reform ot end unconstitutional surveillance as well as hold accountable those public officials who are found to be responsible for this unconstitutional surveillance; and
RESOLVED, the Republican National Committee encourages Republican lawmakers to immediately take action to halt current unconstitutional surveillance programs and provide a full public accounting of the NSA’s date collection programs.
We had mentioned, just recently, that it appeared strictly partisan folks had a tendency to flip positions on surveillance based on whether or not "their guy" was in power, so to some extent this can be seen as a pushback on the fact that there's a Democratic President -- but this is still a huge shift for this to basically be the position of the entire Republican Party. No longer can people claim that it's just the "fringe element" that is arguing for these things or the outlier "libertarian wing."
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Filed Under: 4th amendment, nsa, republican national committee, republicans, section 215
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Interesting...
Interesting, considering they were the ones who initially said they must start....
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there fixed it. Business as usual. Nothing to see, move along people...
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I fully expect that most of the Republicans being talked about as possible presidential candidates would secretly have the NSA start doing the exact same things all over again. Because you know, you don't want to be blamed for a terrorist attack when your office, that's why so many politicians of both sides are such blind supporters of almost anything the NSA does.
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As long as nobody gets held responsible for them, pre-election promises are just a means for turning democracy into gameplay.
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Wow...
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Just so you're aware this is a rad policy and as a reader I really, really appreciate it.
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I've generally been a lifelong democrat. But, I personally revile both parties equally. Liars and crooks, nearly the entire lot.
Few have anywhere close to the American people's best interest at heart. They do whatever gets them the most money and keeps them in power.
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DNC
I was a Democrat because I believe in the liberal ideals of fair play, equal opportunity for all and the important of freedom and liberty of every individual. This administration has made clear that it values *other* things than I do, and since the DNC has decided to go along for the ride, they can both ride that wagon to hell.
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Blue Dogs now would probably be labeled Conservative Republicans. How times have changed.
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The big corporations are the enemy, as it happens. They're the ones driving surveillance to line their pockets.
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SOPA. ACTA. Internet freedom. The abuses that Barack Obama (and even more than him, Joe Biden) have been pushing to expand at every opportunity.
If the Republicans had actually caught onto that and campaigned accordingly, today we'd almost certainly be reading about the DNC's new resolution condemning the current administration's support for the NSA.
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I honestly would not expect this from the Republicans. I'm sure they would like to abuse the power just as much as Obama has for 6 years...so part of me is thinking that the Republicans may have realized they have a snowballs chance in hell of ever gaining the Presidency again and decided to cut off the Democrats advantage.
note...I'm a conservative so I would probably swing Republican but even I have problems with the lack of plan, leadership or end goal the Republicans seem to have.
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This is just part of their whole "if Obama is for it, we must oppose it" schtick, not because of any actual principled stance. Nonetheless, this time it's working in favor of freedom and liberty for once. We should be pleased.
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About Frickin' Time
Glad to see he's finally listening to me.
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DUMB QUESTION
When was the secret interpretation of Section 215 created and acted upon? Was it right in 2001 when the PATRIOT Act was enacted? Sensenbrenner's comments seem to indicate that at least initially it wasn't misinterpreted so wildly but maybe I'm naively optimistic on that front.
I know it was renewed in July (and 05 and 06 before that, correct?) but I want to know when the first abuses likely occurred, as far as anyone can tell.
Thanks!
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Re: DUMB QUESTION
The bulk collection of *phone* records under the FISA Court was first approved in May of 2006. From 2001 until 2006 it was done under presidential authorizations. So, realistically, the FISA Court technically "began" approving this in 2006, though they didn't explain the reasoning until 2013.
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Yeah, but the "position" is to SAY, NOT DO.
I'm keeping the bubbly capped. Today that's IBC Root Beer, which I drink 'cause it's good for my root. (Old, old, joke.)
By strange coincidence, this just happens to be top of left column links on Drudge Report. It's continuing mystery how re-writing with huge block quote (well, plus here needless outline of "editorial policy") gets anyone here.
Where Mike sez: "Any system that involves spying on the activities of users is going to be a non-starter. Creeping the hell out of people isn't a way of encouraging them to buy. It's a way of encouraging them to want nothing to do with you." -- So why doesn't that apply to The Google?
09:05:56[k-26-2]
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Just want to be reelected
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Hungry for votes
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Maybe this is the starting point for them actually listening to actual citizens for once...
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First resolve is basically gonna get slammed on account of it being impossible to exclude americans specifically. I doubt they will be able to withstand the NSA pressure for watering it down to basically nothing. Also "make it clear" is very vague politically.
Second resolve seems entirely political. It is a bold sacrifice with a confidence that democrats will suffer way more from this than republicans. It will get watered down, but it is so strong right now that it would be an atomic bomb under many US politicians carreers.
Third resolve is very interesting since it is almost a call for breaking confidenciality. I don't see it as necessarily political in its nature and asking for another potential lockdown of US politics is bold from a party who lost a lot of sympathy when they did what seems to have been the same thing to Obamacare. I think they have a much better case here!
This is a sign of many republican grassroots revolting but having it effect actual policy in congress is an entirely different matter.Throwing King and Rogers to the sharks seems too unlikely for this to get backed by actions, but we will have to wait and see.
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huh? this isnt' a surprise
introduce something knowingly flawed, then deny any association with it, then later bitch about it when it falls apart as a terrible thing.
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Two things...
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what six months ago? it wont start up again either, it never stopped.
Inform yourself, this is simple "Reps are really DESPERATE",
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To date, neither party has been terribly protective about civil liberties post 9-11. Bush and Obama are both pretty squarely responsible for these programs. Democrats seem a little more invested in the idea of themselves as protectors of civil liberties, but there's similar rhetoric in Republican campaigning. So far, however, neither party has really done much to curb these sorts of power grabs.
I'm hardly inclined to think of this as a major victory, but it certainly seems to be something to be encouraged by, rather than discouraged. The language could have been weak or given a lot of wiggle room, but instead it is quite clear and pretty strong. It's the first indication I've seen that this issue had real traction and staying power within either party.
It's also a nice reminder that Sensenbrenner, for all his prior assertions that people were crazy to fear the Patriot Act, seemed legitimately upset to find out how 215 was being used. It's strangely encouraging to learn that the author of the Patriot Act actually believed that it imposed important and meaningful limits on the powers granted.
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It's not hate at all. It's a combination of three things: GOP leaders have repeatedly and publicly said that they oppose anything that Obama is in favor of, the actions of the GOP have bee entirely consistent with this, and the vast majority of the Republican Party thought this stuff was A-OK before Obama was in office.
It's simple logic.
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RESOLVED, the Republican National Committee encourages Republican lawmakers to call for a special committee to investigate, report, and reveal to the public the extent of this domestic spying and the committee should create specific recommendations for legal and regulatory reform ot end unconstitutional surveillance as well as hold accountable those public officials who are found to be responsible for this unconstitutional surveillance;
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Now I know this comment I'm about to lay down is not exactly a point that is salient to the discussion at hand, but...
How horrible a thought that any person might get, let-alone want, want a, super sloppy, enthusiastic, cup the balls, BJ from Dianne "I've got a California Concealed Carry Permit cause I'm special and "Scarry People" hate me" Feinstein
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You seem to lack the understanding that the complaints are nor GOP "hate" but poorly expressed acknowledgement other than 1 poster that this is a non-binding resolution and is really just meaningless posturing by a party that supported these programs before this announcement.
But a wilful lack of understanding is typical when it comes to politics.
Rather than 'encourage' why not demand that they deliver what they claim to stand for VS this handwaving bull.
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Or ore you Smiling-Joe "Double-barrel" Biden?
Cause your comment was lamer than this one.
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I mean, all the intelligence people who really know a lot more than they let on say that they want him tortured and killed and what not else.
They are all honorable men, and if they say that Snowden was ambitious, why who would want to disagree with them?
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Call your representatives
As a person that votes based on issues, vote your position by calling your rep!
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Re: Call your representatives
I am sure the NSA will pass it on to the appropriate person...
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Utter horseshit
Perhaps you do not remember the 90s, when they were using events such as Waco and Ruby Ridge as their anti-government-overreach hobbyhorses. That was in the platform, too, yet another plank they abandoned or reversed the instant they took power.
In short: horseshit, and the only way to believe it is to be either a fool who refuses to learn from history, or someone who is utterly ignorant of it.
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Re: Utter horseshit
Regardless of the motivation, the words were spoken and they are good words. Don't discard the baby with the bathwater.
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Re: Re: Utter horseshit
The U.S.A. needs a tradition of citizens shooting at politicians that do open U-turns on campaign promises.
Even if just 5% of the shots hit home, it would start making them think twice about their openly cynical ways.
Perhaps that's the idea behind Al Kaida. If it is, it has backfired. Too bad.
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then, according to Eric Holder, not that he's creep arsing, of course, 'At least 15 judges on about 35 occasions have said that the program itself is legal,” Holder said. “I think that those other judges, those 15 judges, got it right.”'
then consider that not just these but everyone totally ignored what was going on, even though there were a lot of people who knew about it, but because no one had had the balls to make the public aware of what it's own government was doing, which because of the technology, is a hell of a lot worse than was happening 70+years ago and led to WWII and the murder of so many people, no one cared! apart from one person who has now been labelled a traitor and who has no country, who has lost everything and still has multiple people slagging him off and some even calling for him to be killed! then remember that these are the same people who were running these illegal surveillance and were supposed to have been doing so for the good of the nation and it's citizens! believe that and you'll believe anything!
i still fail to understand how anyone, let alone the President of a nation can agree to what has been going on and still claim that nation is a Democracy! after being elected to this position, he has basically told the people fuck you. i'm doing what i want, not what i told you i'll do or what you want or what you entrusted me to do on your behalf! rather a long way from a democracy, if you ask me!!
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Mind you, they've gone so deep into crazytown that I reckon the NSA has probable cause to be grabbing their metadata for a change.
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I wonder how he's going to spin this .. this could in fact be the most humorous week for him yet..
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Yet another checkmark...
Get rid of the parties, get rid of corporate/group political speech, and get rid of the money in politics. Then we won't be subjected to such outrageously self serving drivel.
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Maybe it dawned on them...
Or: elections.
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Gonna fix it!
Win
Fuck up for 3 1/2 years
Win
Fuck up for 3.1
Mentor the next on how to fuck up.
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Whatever gets them elected
You see, the elections are coming and they don't want to be caught seeming to be on the wrong side of the room when it comes to this issue.
It don't mean shit, because as soon as the furor dies down, they'll state that they've changed their minds and that we can all relax. "Whoops, we were just kidding!"
Then it'll be back to business as usual. They're just trying to buy time and votes by appearing to be outraged by the whole thing, but voting for continuing funding for the programs in secret.
Oh, didn't you know they're funded by the same people who have been supplying the NSA with all that nifty equipment and stuff like data (Verizon has lots of money).
Funny about that.
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Re: Whatever gets them elected
If they match action to word, and vote wholesale for bills designed to limit the NSA and bring it back under control, then I might believe they actually agree that it's a problem, and not just some cheap, empty tactic to impress the voters.
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And Snowden at least stands for honesty, reform, and the U.S. constitution. Never mind that he's not running. Never mind that he'll probably not manage coming back and staying alive for two months before some "patriot" like Hayden will organize his assassination, possibly by a "mentally deranged person".
At some point of time, you need to take your chances and face a few setbacks.
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It assumes that only Americans are worth considering
This is only about Americans. It implicitly declares open season on non citizens and maybe citizens living abroad.
Another slap in the face for decent people who have the temerity to not be US citizens.
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Hypocrites
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Basically, it's business as usual. Nothing to see here, move along.
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Of course it's unconstitutional
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Re: Of course it's unconstitutional
But they are doing something about it!!
They have their PR specialist, Barrack Obama appearing on TV regularly to try and convince everyone its no big deal and he's handling it.
They have created a second set of laws to insure that if caught, they can claim its all legal.
They have their own hand-picked Over-sight committee to rubber stamp all their operations and give them a veneer of proper over-sight.
And most importantly, they're attacking secretly anyone who might threaten their continuing operations.
How can you possibly say they're doing nothing about it??
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