Rooting For The Laundry: The Absolute Insanity Of Decisions About The NSA Being Made Based On 'Liberal' Or 'Conservative' Ideology
from the up-is-down,-left-is-right dept
Geoffrey Stone, one of the members of the White House task force which suggested that the President needed to end the Section 215 bulk collection of phone records, has said that he was told that the White House rejected that plan because they viewed the report as "liberal."“And instead of our report being truly understood as a middle ground, based upon taking into account all of those perspectives on both sides of the spectrum, I think the White House got moved by thinking of our report as a liberal report,” Stone said.God forbid a supposedly "liberal" President actually do something he considers "liberal." And, indeed, it seemed that his non-proposal in which he pretends to reform NSA surveillance was predicated on not pissing off the hawkish conservatives who tend to support the surveillance state.
So... what happens now that the supposedly conservative, hawkish, surveillance state-loving Republican Party has agreed that the program is unconstitutional and should be shut down?
To some extent, it really does seem to go back to the corruption of power. Those in power always seem to trust themselves not to abuse that power -- and unthinking automaton partisan hacks seem to flip their position based on whether their guy or the other guy is power.
There's been an insanely stupid debate over the past few weeks as to whether or not folks like Ed Snowden, Glenn Greenwald and Julian Assange were somehow "ideologically pure" enough to be supported by liberals -- which highlights the monumentally asinine level of political discourse in the country these days, further highlighted by President Obama rejecting the task force's opinions as being "too liberal."
As can be seen by the flip-flopping of "liberals" and "conservatives" over the surveillance state, the entire concept of those labels is really no different than if you're rooting for the orange team or the yellow team. It's like the old joke about how if you root for a sports team, you're really rooting for the laundry. People focused on whether something is "liberal enough" or "conservative enough" are wasting everyone's time. These issues are not about being "liberal" or "conservative." They're about doing what's right. It's not about partisan politics or which team you play for or root for. It should be about what is best for the country and the wider world in which we live.
It's incredibly disheartening that we seem to live in a world where that aspect is barely considered but what color your team is matters the most.
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Filed Under: conservatives, democrats, ideology, liberals, nsa, politics, republicans, surveillance
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Sanity and reason are the losers either way.
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This doesn't even get into how conservatives whine about liberals on every issue, which has been a winning strategy since the time of Newt in the 80s.
We really need a democratic way of electing officials and so far, we don't have that and very few mechanisms to implement it.
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And there you just went and did exactly what Mike was ripping on.
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HEY!
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__________________________________
I'm liberal and I'm aghast at the NSA intrusions. I think Obama, Feinstein, Alexander, Clapper, Verrili, Holder et al should be led out of their offices in handcuffs and charged with treason.
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Violates the Constitution, Violates Civil Rights and the government gets way too big.
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Just make sure to realize the same hacks on the other side of the isle need to be in the same handcuffs. Get rid of all the ones who are this bad on both sides, and more or less start over.
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Liberal / Conservative vs Constutitional
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Re: Liberal / Conservative vs Constutitional
So? I mean, it's not like anyone is going to hold them to it.
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Re: Liberal / Conservative vs Constutitional
They don't care about the oath to the Constitution. Most have been bought and sold by corporate and other interests.
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Re: Liberal / Conservative vs Constutitional
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The one party system, pretending to have two sides, when one does something "unfixable" they switch good cop bad cop places
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It's all just tribalism
In other words, it's total BS. This tribalism business is the main thing that turns me off to sports -- it's just completely creepy. It's even creepier when it happens about things that are actually meaningful.
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Of course, these same founders also eventually started the parties that evolved into the Republicans and Democrats, so even though their adverse effect was inevitable, so was their very existence.
In this world, the second-best thing that could be done is to change the system so that it is no longer rigged to only allow those two parties as viable ones.
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Agreed, the problem is: who does the educating?
(I don't have an answer, BTW.)
(And you are my favorite AC: always calm and providing the most eloquent counter-arguments.)
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The term liberal refers to being open (or free) to change. Conservative on the other hand refers to being for preserving the existing ideologies and ways of doing things.
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The "liberals" have lurched after them in the hopes of remaining electable, pushing the whole political discourse to the right, though sometimes they'll throw their base a bone, e.g. gay marriage.
Meanwhile, they bicker over hot-button issues they've exaggerated to end-of-life-as-we-know-it proportions while neglecting to do any actual governance.
Artificially-maintained tribalism reinforced with shaming ("You must be a liberal socialist!") to keep members in line keeps this whole nonsensical circus going. How about we just ditch ideology and think for ourselves? Our alleged thought leaders aren't doing a terribly good job of it.
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Left vs. Right describes one specific way to describe political groups.
Conservative vs. Liberal is different one altogether.
Party affiliation is yet a third one.
Still Left-wing != Liberal != Democrat just as Right-wing != Conservative != Republican yet that is how much of the population views the terms due to the conflation of the terms by the politicians that are attempting to manipulate them.
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The manipulation is 'a' problem. The fact that the majority of people in the US don't even see the manipulation is 'the' problem.
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I still disagree with the programs they are pushing.
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As a Conservative
The DHS, NSA, & general activities performed by these organizations are the result of power drunk congressional assholes... be they R or D.
Remember... these 2 parties have become drunk upon the power each party wrangles into existence. Which is why you NEVER hear about them repealing things, you only hear about them re-purposing them for their own ends.
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Re: As a Conservative
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This link may be apropos
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But then again, maybe they didn't think this through because now that they're opposed to their own position they have oppose themselves to make sure the opposing party doesn't win.
Wait, now I'm confused... this whole opposing party thing doesn't make any sense. Can't we just represent our positions and find a mutually acceptable compromise among us?
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What do you want? A healthy and functioning political system?? That's just crazy talk.
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Go Seahawks!
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TOLD BY WHO ???
oh right!!!
"I think the White House got moved by thinking of our report as a liberal report,” Stone said. "
so he was told by the little voice in his head !
"God forbid a supposedly "liberal" President actually do something he considers "liberal.""
look at all the assumption, based on what this guy thought to himself !!! astonishing reach !!
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those terms are political ideologies, not local football teams !! All US politics are left of centre, it just depends on how far left they actually, that differs on different issues.
But it was Stone who thought to himself it was too liberal, not the White House, (by his account) he just thinks that..
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"God forbid a supposedly "liberal" President actually do something he considers "liberal.""
"God forbid a President actually doing something STONE considers "liberal"".
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This is one of the two major reasons why I quit supporting professional sports years ago.
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