Hollywood's Piracy Fears Turn Potentially Useful Product Into A $4,000 Brick
from the the-original-tin-foil-hat-brigade dept
Hollywood's inability to see any new technology as anything other than a piracy enabler continues to cripple potentially great products. David Pogue has a review of a "set top" box that has the potential (remember that word) to make your home movie viewing instant and seamless.
You feed it all your movies and music on disc: CDs, DVDs and Blu-ray discs. The Cinema One copies each disc to its 4-terabyte hard drive. 25 minutes for a DVD; two hours for a Blu-ray.Once these movies are stored on the drive, you can call them up instantly using the remote or the iPad app.
And I mean it copies everything. Every deleted scene, director’s commentary, alternate ending. Every DVD extra. And it doesn’t touch the video — there’s no compression or anything; it copies every pixel of quality that’s on the disc.
When you hit Play on the remote, the movie begins playing instantly.This convenience of not being told you're a thief by your purchased product comes at a price. One is the retail price, which is an astounding $4,000. The other is a tax (of sorts) borne out of Hollywood's stupidity and paranoia.
Read that again. The movie begins playing. Not the FBI warning, not the MPAA screen, not the previews, not the DVD menu — the movie itself. You cannot imagine how delightful that is compared with what we’re used to now: Downloading or streaming movies is handy, but you don’t get anything like the quality of Blu-ray, and you generally don’t get any of the bonus features. And discs give you the quality and the extras but require you to sit there staring at stupid FBI and MPAA screens that you’re not allowed to skip. The Kaleidescape box offers the best of both worlds.
When you want to play a Blu-ray movie off the Cinema One, you have to hunt down the original disc you own, insert it into the Cinema One’s slot, and wait for it to load. You’re not playing the disc; you’re just confirming that you own it.That's Hollywood crippling a device to ensure the $4,000 product never lives up to its potential. This is what happens when execs see nothing in the technology but a new way to pirate movies. Instead of a seamless, instant experience, you're back in the position of hunting for the purchased discs you already "conveniently" stored on the hard drive. For whatever reason, you don't have to do this with regular DVDs. (Presumably because that market isn't where the money is anymore, although at one time, that ridiculous stipluation was forced on Kaleidescape by Hollywood lawyers -- and that's when the box ran about $10,000.)
But you’re also losing 80 percent of the value of having a Cinema One! What happened to “any movie in your collection, instantly”?
You can also purchase movies through Kaleidescape, but at this point, the selection is woefully limited. For only $2, you can purchase what amounts to a digital license to play your purchased Blu-rays without having to load the original disc, but even that is hampered by a lack of upstream licensing.
That’d be a reasonably priced solution if it were available for any Blu-ray movie you own. But it’s not. In fact, it’s available for relatively few movies: only those from Lionsgate and Warner Bros. Kaleidescape says it’s working on reaching similar deals with other movie companies, but for now, it’s only a fractional solution.So, the studios are more than happy to cripple the device, but not so interested in providing affordable licensing of their productions. It's certainly had time to work these details out. It's been fighting Kaleidescape since 2004, tenanciously combating every technological advance the company made. Along the way, it forced the company to require the insertion of every disc before playing (including regular DVDs) and dragged it to court on multiple occasions to claim its "circumvention" of disc-based copyright protection was infringement (even if people were "burning" movies they owned to the drive).
Now, Hollywood has been forced to accept this device, nearly a decade since it first began its attack. The number of licensed movies available for download barely clears 2,000 titles. There may be more to come, but it seems unlikely to be fully embraced by the same studios who spent 10 years fighting it. And who's to say that any licenses obtained won't be rescinded in the future, punching holes in your digital collection and putting you back in the position of hunting down Blu-ray discs you stashed away after burning them to Kaleidescape's drive? It's not as though that sort of "you don't really own your digital purchases" bullshit has never occurred before.
As Pogue points out, the studios' tampering makes this product almost completely useless.
But that copy-protection business is going to kill a lot of potential sales. It’s like having a TiVo that can’t record anything on a timer, or hiring a tax preparer who hands you the blank 1040 form and a pen. It just defeats the purpose.That's copyright protection for you. All the promise in the world negated by fearful Hollywood execs who see pirates hiding under every new technological advance.
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Filed Under: blu ray, copyright, david pogue, drm, dvd jukebox, hollywood
Companies: kaleidescape, mpaa
Reader Comments
The First Word
“I agree, but that is completely irrelevant. Bear in mind that early versions of successful products often cost too much, then they get economies of scale, then competitors take note of the market and build competing products, and prices normalize.
The iPhone first cost the full unsubsidized $600. It did OK. The first VCRs and DVD players were over a thousand dollars. Now they are $35ea. Laptops? $2,000 plus. Garmin Streetpilot GPS? $1,200.
That's how it goes...unless some douchebaggery stops it cold, such as the MPAA is doing here. THEN what happens is it NEVER gets affordable, market tested, scale economies, improved, etc. And then so few customers notice or care, that John Q. Public doesn't even know they've been screwed out of a good product category, even to the point of saying something like "What do I care. Darn thing costs $4k, who wants it anyway?"
Sound familiar?
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Hey, Hollywood, I got an idea!
Same thing, really.
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aw man!
and yet with so much limitation slap into it by the studios...
that seemingly 4k US dollar that can save more in the future seems adds more pains in the pocket....
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Artistic megalomania.
Once content is "just files". It's trivial to present it in user friendly ways and there are no shortage of programs on every platform to do this with.
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Re: Artistic megalomania.
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I could compare the MAFIAA to a soccer team trying to score against its own mark but at this point I'd say it's a soccer team that is actively trying to murder the players, the owner and burn its HQ down into nothing. The only thing preventing it from happening is the Government.
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Re:
I no longer feel sorry for the artists... they keep signing their rights away and not making a penny they deserve their losses.
I do however try to fun every Indie thing I can that interests me. I believe in people being able to get rich off of their works, but I do not believe that Legal Conglomerate Thug middlemen should be able to as well!
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You have to see the studios perspective
Sort of like when a thief smashed my car window to take 35˘ in change - why should HE care what it cost me, he's got the 35˘.
You'll play your movie from a disk, like your father did, and like it.
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Re: You have to see the studios perspective
Although they're too busy thinking it's a good idea to put unskippable ads on that media.
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Re: Re: You have to see the studios perspective
Customer buys a DVD, they can re-sell it, they can lend it, they can watch it on different devices without hassle, any number of things, and the studio gets nothing after the original sale.
With digital on the other hand, there is no resell, there is no loaning, there is no using it on different devices, none of that is possible without giving them more money, forcing the customer to 'buy' the movie multiple times to get the same results as a DVD gives you.
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Re: You have to see the studios perspective
They're literally refusing the chance to make discs more valuable because people who already build dirt cheap media boxes for downloads might use them. They're idiots.
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Re: You have to see the studios perspective
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Re: You have to see the studios perspective
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Meh!
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This is simply incorrect.
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DIY Solution
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Re: DIY Solution
I'd love to support Kaleidescape if they had stuck to their guns, but their device is now crippled and pointless.
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Re: DIY Solution
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DIY
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Stupid design decision
Instead, since they decided to engineer the whole thing themselves, they have to license the Blueray codecs and adhere to whatever the terms are.
Either way, this is largely the fault of the entertainment industry. Their stupid rules & geo restrictions push people to piracy and then they wonder why they are loosing so many sales...
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Re: Stupid design decision
All of which would violate the license and render the product just as illegal.
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Built my own NAS and XBMC media box to stream to for less than half the cost of this machine. Then just DL ripped versions of all the physical media and throw them on the NAS.
No disc switching, access to any device that can touch the NAS.
Why the hell would I pay more(an obscene amount more) for less features just because opening it up might enable piracy?
HELLO! PIRATES ALREADY CAN DO ALL THOSE THINGS AND MORE!
*sigh*
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please explain
If you own the media, just buy your own 4T HD and rip the media to it. There is a ridiculous amount of free software out there that does that for you, and is easy and intuitive to use.
For that matter, why even bother with the media? UseNet is your friend.
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Re: please explain
Alas, it's dead in the water
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Re: Re: please explain
There's a ton of extremely easy-to-use open source front ends for this.
You hit on the real explanation -- convenience. But $4,000 is incredibly overpriced for this system. It should be in the $500 range at most.
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Re: Re: Re: please explain
The problem is however, that the type of enthusiast that is willing to pays that, generally already has hacked together a vastly superior setup. If this device would have come out much earlier, when Blu rays started to become popular, it might have had a chance with these people. Yet still, the more money than brains crowd could still be a valid target audience.
quite frankly, right now the real value in this device is in highlighting the infuriating meddling of the movie studios. And that is invaluable.
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errr
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80% of the value?
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Re:
I agree, but that is completely irrelevant. Bear in mind that early versions of successful products often cost too much, then they get economies of scale, then competitors take note of the market and build competing products, and prices normalize.
The iPhone first cost the full unsubsidized $600. It did OK. The first VCRs and DVD players were over a thousand dollars. Now they are $35ea. Laptops? $2,000 plus. Garmin Streetpilot GPS? $1,200.
That's how it goes...unless some douchebaggery stops it cold, such as the MPAA is doing here. THEN what happens is it NEVER gets affordable, market tested, scale economies, improved, etc. And then so few customers notice or care, that John Q. Public doesn't even know they've been screwed out of a good product category, even to the point of saying something like "What do I care. Darn thing costs $4k, who wants it anyway?"
Sound familiar?
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Doesn't matter.
Early product runs prove a technology and attract competitors. Like expensive PCs attracted Wozniak and thousands of other assemblers. Some of those turn into businesses and sell better and cheaper products.
They're not yet searching for customers like you or me, who can cobble together our own solution with NAS and software like Catalyst or Handbrake. They're looking specifically for people who can't, or don't want to.
Early product runs start at high prices because THEY CAN. They seek rich customers, or customers that are specifically seeking the solution they provide, and then they seek to extract all the consumer surplus from these high demand customers, before lowering the price to sell to the larger mass market. It's just basic price discrimination, and makes perfect sense when you don't even have the ability to produce high volumes yet.
Elon Musk is doing just that with the Model S. First, a car with a high price, the next model will be cheaper and higher volume, and the third model is expected to compete with a BMW 3 series on price. I've been to the factory. They are barely using any of its capacity.
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Lame excuse is still lame.
You're late to the party here. Very late. This company has been around for a long time and this is just the latest generation of their devices.
You're trying to defend this 4K price tag but you clearly don't realize that this 4K price tag is just the "dip your toe in the water" price. A complete system is going to be considerably more expensive.
This is an old product that's just obscure because it's priced for billionaires.
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Re: Lame excuse is still lame.
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Re: Lame excuse is still lame.
If the MPAA lawsuit against the VCR had succeeded, we still would have have had crippled functionality VCRs available to the Billionaires for thousands of dollars. And we'd have you telling us how stupid VCR makers are for their overpriced junk. Instead, Sony won, and the product underwent a common evolution.
Ten years later, this product is still $4k. Ten years after the MPAA-Sony lawsuit, VCRs were $50. See the point?
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Oh. Is that all?
Did you really just write that? Do you want to post a retraction?
Cuz that's all the iPhone did when it came out in 2007. And now anybody knows that "just adding easy to use software interface" can make a radical difference.
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So, how did that work out for Nokia versus Apple, I ask?
Once again, "an easy to use software interface" makes a radical difference.
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I'll agree that software design played a big role in its success, but it's not the only thing that made the iPhone successful.
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Well, compatibility with iTunes is software. I'm actually having trouble finding out if there was a touchscreen smartphone with an mp3 player before 2007 (when the iPhone was released). I think there were others that came out about the same time, but I don't know if there were any substantially earlier. Anybody know?
I had phones that played mp3s before then but not touchscreen, and I had a touchscreen device that played music, but it wasn't a phone.
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As I mentioned to jupiterkansas, my Nokia N95 is just one example of that. Resistive touchscreen, not capacitive.
The Windows phones of the early century also played music. PalmOS added media, and could also play tunes, making the Treo line another answer to your question. There were many.
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Got it. I saw that, but it looked like it might not be a touch screen. Do you know if all the N series were touchscreen, like the N90 and N70?
The Windows phones of the early century also played music.
They weren't all touchscreen though.
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So that just leaves the PalmOS phones, all the Windows mobile phones that were resistive touch and played music, as well as a number of Asian feature phones, the Motorola Rokr, etc.
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um...so you're now saying that the iPhone played songs like other phones did, but had an easy to user interface.
Are you arguing my side, or yours?
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And that's not to say the software wasn't important either. I've used music players besides Apple's and the've all failed on the software side of things.
But since Kaliedescape does everything a computer can do at a 1/10th of the price, the only thing it has to justify that expense is a clean user interface. Even the iPhone would have failed if it cost over $2000.
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And people wonder why I'm so deadset against copyright in any form? Because in order to enforce, you ultimately end up in today's crazy world, where you deliberately retard technological progress? The price tag of this particular device is insane, but it does everything you would want in a blu-ray player. It not just plays them but stores them too in a local copy.
I can already do that. My PC has a blu-ray burner and I have about 4 times the storage space as this gadget does total, but I have heard in the past quotes from copyright thugs that no-one has a legitimate use for large hard drives. In other words, the rest of you guys can't enjoy shiny things because my business model revolves around restricting what you can do with your shiny things backed up by government force.
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At MWC last week in Barcelona, Sandisk showed a 128GB micro SD card. It's on Amazon now for $109.
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Meanwhile, that Sandisk is a pretty good price/MB.
Kryder's law is in full effect.
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They're not that far away at all. I have a 64 GB micro SD card inside of my smart phone right now.
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iPod 6 - Now with a built-in CD drive!
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Re: iPod 6 - Now with a built-in CD drive!
And that means we probably would not have Android, which exists because carriers like Verizon needed a device to competite against the exclusive iPhone carriers like AT&T.
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Cinavia
All Blu-ray disk players made in the last year are required to support Cinavia DRM. This includes all multi-functional BD players with streaming or file-playing abilities, and these streams and files being played are also detected and blocked.
It's this lack of Cinavia DRM that makes a media center pc -of any kind- greatly superior to any hardware-based Blu-ray player or combo device.
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Re: Cinavia
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Re: Re: Re: Cinavia
unless they start forcing VLC or something to incorporate that Cinavia, it really isn't a big deal.
Even then if they did start that, I would bet people would just stop using it and find a new player.
People would just rather break the law than be inconvenienced.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cinavia
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140310/16392526519/ridiculously-broad-ruling-against-dvd-r ipper-software-has-court-allow-seizure-domains-social-media-more.shtml
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Brainwashing...
The disc started with a "commercial" from the MPAA saying "Piracy is stealing". How did we get to the point where the MPAA is brainwashing people like this?
First, how is downloading or copying a movie related to hijacking ships in the ocean. The events in the movie "Captain Phillips" show piracy, and it's not about how a crew of Somalis downloaded a movie.
Second, how do we (as TechDirt) readers spread the word that downloading movies is not "stealing" and should not be likened to stealing a car, as the "commercial" shows.
Yet when everyone watches this DVD that they purchased, they'll be treated to an unskippable message about how downloading movies is as bad as stealing a car.
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Re: Brainwashing...
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Re: Brainwashing...
It also reminds them that they can download movies, and if Hollywood is going to treat them as thieves they might as well download their next movie if they can find it on-line.
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What's the market? people who can't manage to search for a streaming site and yet have 4 grand laying around?
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Re:
Easy: Fat, bloated movie studio CEOs
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Such a product would decrease piracy for those who have no other choice at present. Those that want quality will happily pay for that convenience although the device should be sub $600 as that is all it currently costs for such a setup.
Some of us on the other hand refuse to pay for media ever again due to the actions of the media corporations and their control techniques.
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Water-Powered Cars
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I don't give a shit!
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Lots of YouTube videos are 1080p resolution, so its no surprise that they can look better than an upscaled DVD.
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Re:
http://mashable.com/2014/01/03/youtube-4k-ces/
Netflix is carrying some 4k streaming content, and ESPN has said they will shoot 100% of their content in 4K.
A DVD is a relic from the awful past. From scratches and slow load times, to "no skip" flags and copious advertisements put *before* the film. And who can forget the fun of region locking? There is a place in my heart for VHS, but I curse and dance on DVD's grave.
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4TB?
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Four Grand????
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Modest proposal
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