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Canadian And American Politicians Use Ottawa Shootings As Excuses To Demand More Surveillance, Greater Policing Powers

from the more-arrests dept

Fri, Oct 24th 2014 7:39pm — Mike Masnick

As you may have heard, an apparently mentally unstable guy shot up the Canadian Parliament earlier this week, killing a soldier, before being shot dead himself. The attack certainly raises some questions -- about dealing with mental health, about security at the Parliament and probably a few other things as well. However, police state/surveillance state apologists have seen the window to expand their own powers and are taking it. It starts with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who wasn't shy about using this one-off incident as an excuse to massively expand the surveillance and police state:

“Our laws and police powers need to be strengthened in the area of surveillance, detention and arrest,” the Prime Minister told the House of Commons. “They need to be much strengthened. I assure members that work which is already under way will be expedited.”

So, not only will they expand the police and surveillance state, but they'll do it in an "expedited" fashion as a kneejerk response to one guy shooting up the Parliament. That seems like a recipe for bad decision making and the erosion of the rights of the public.

Oh, and some other Canadian politicians are already looking for ways to use this as an excuse to attack free speech online, because obviously that's the real problem here:

There is frustration in government, and among law enforcement agencies, that the authorities can’t detain or arrest people who express sympathy for atrocities committed overseas and who may pose a threat to public safety, one Conservative MP said. “Do we need new offences? If so which?”

Sources suggest the government is likely to bring in new hate speech legislation that would make it illegal to claim terrorist acts are justified online.

Down here in the US, at least it's not the President saying this kind of crap, just well-known terrorist appeaser Rep. Peter King who has declared that the Ottawa shootings mean that the US needs to start spying on all the Muslims to find out which ones are radicalized. I wonder how King would react to someone saying that, based on that, we should also spy on "all the Irish to find out which ones are radicalized." Or, you know, perhaps he wouldn't like that so much, seeing as he has a rather long history supporting Irish terrorists, and such surveillance might turn up something he wouldn't like.

King, by the way, also attacks the "morons" at the NY Times and the ACLU for daring to push back against the NYPD's program of spying on Muslims. That now disbanded program, by the way, cost a ton and generated exactly zero leads. And yet, suddenly King thinks bringing it back is the answer?

This, unfortunately, is the ridiculous cycle of kneejerk defenders of the police and surveillance state. Privileged folks, in power, who use any excuse whatsoever to push for ever increasing power, and ever fewer rights by the public. It's a culture of control, paranoia and fear. These people aren't leaders, they're cowards in leadership positions.

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Filed Under: canada, ottawa, peter king, police, police state, shootings, stephen harper, surveillance, surveillance state

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rw (profile), 24 Oct 2014 @ 6:56pm

Just like all the most hated dictators of the past, increase the powers of the police, decrease civil liberty, and by the time the public figures out what's going on, it's too late. They no longer have the freedom to speak.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Oct 2014 @ 7:45pm

Increased violence might be a symptom of increased surveillance. Just saying, they might be creating their own demons.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Oct 2014 @ 7:50pm

I don't know why I continue to be surprised at the level of prejudice, bigotry, and hate that pours from the mouths of elected officials, but I am.

It's truly disgusting that this kind of thinking still exists in the United States.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Oct 2014 @ 8:03pm

>I wonder how King would react to someone saying that, based on that, we should also spy on "all the Irish to find out which ones are radicalized."

Wonder no more.

http://youtu.be/mQju6nYu2Hc?t=4m45s
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 24 Oct 2014 @ 8:51pm

All of the power they gleefully gathered for themselves, all of the data they siphon off and they now demand more.
If what you are already doing, which literally is shitting on the Constitution, isn't enough why in the name of all that is holy would you keep demanding more?

Rep. King is a terrorist sympathizer. Period full stop.
He should be the FIRST to have himself monitored before he demands it for anyone else. If he is unwilling to accept that sort of invasive pointless spying on himself & others why in fucks name should anyone else accept it? Or shall we finally accept that this isn't fear of a religion but and end run around fear of people who are different (read brown).

Horrible things happen, the fact they happened despite the tremendous violations of citizens rights needs to be a wake up call to a couple of things...
- You can not/will not ever be 100% safe stop expecting it.
- You can NOT make anyone safer as long as we keep the xenophobic/racist undertones in play.

We gave them all that they wanted, they took so much more and still are unable to do what they promised this would do.
It is time we make them stop and rethink or replace them with people who will not just do soundbite/appealing to the lowest common fears law making but do the hard work of accepting reality and stop demonizing everyone who is different.

I don't fear Muslims, I fear people who have hijacked a message to get their way no matter the cost to others... oh and those ISIS guys are pretty bad too.
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DOlz (profile), 24 Oct 2014 @ 9:04pm

Same old, same old
Ordinary citizens get killed by a violent lunatic, it’s too early to talk about solutions. Cowards in power get hurt, they can’t act fast enough to protect themselves from all threats real and imagined.
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Gorshkov (profile), 24 Oct 2014 @ 9:10pm

A *Small* Correction
Contrary to what the story says, the legislative changes are NOT, in fact, a knee-jerk reaction to the events. These changes have been scheduled for months, and were, in fact, scheduled to be introduced the day of the shooting.

Even if you consider the proposed changes to be overboard and overbroad (I certainly do), it's nothing more than a very bad coincidence.
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Whoever, 24 Oct 2014 @ 9:11pm

Hard cases ...
Hard cases make bad law.
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That One Guy (profile), 24 Oct 2014 @ 9:13pm

Re:
First of all, you owe me some heavy duty soap, I feel filthy just listening to that guy(I don't really expect more from the media, their job these days is to nod their heads and agree with whatever they're told).

Second, if that's any indication, he seems like he would be fine with the idea about spying 'all the Irish to find out which ones are radicalized', but I imagine that fervent 'support' for such broad spying would take a hit if someone mentioned that, due to his past actions and statements, he was going to have his personal data closely monitored, 'just in case'.

Those that advocate strongly for increased spying powers for the government and private interests, rarely react well when confronted with the idea that they might come under the microscope(perfect example: Feinstien being a fervent defender of the NSA, and then flipping out when another agency spied on her colleagues).
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That One Guy (profile), 24 Oct 2014 @ 9:17pm

Motto of politics: 'Never let a good tragedy go to waste'
Knee-jerk reaction or not, they are pretty clearly attempting to use the incident to further their goals and push the legislation through, which seems to be the main idea behind the article.
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M. Alan Thomas II (profile), 24 Oct 2014 @ 9:25pm

Here's some perspective for you: He's not the first guy to shoot up parliament in Canada. The last one killed three people, and you know what? He did his time and is out on parole.
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M. Alan Thomas II (profile), 24 Oct 2014 @ 9:30pm

Re:
I should clarify: He shot up the Quebec parliament ("National Assembly of Quebec") and did 12 years (counting time served before conviction) before being paroled. Of course, he was active-duty Canadian military and not a terrorist in any technical sense of the word.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Oct 2014 @ 9:45pm

Re:
- You can NOT make anyone safer as long as we keep the xenophobic/racist undertones in play.

There are no races undertones anymore. It has become overt. How about "nursed grievances against the government and against white people,"
makes Zale Thomas a terrorist.

The LA Times was worse. I'm sure Fox News and their talking heads will make it seem like a race riot.

How about the fact that the cops shot a bystander? Shouldn't they be trained to not shoot if a they could hit a bystander? Wouldn't it have been better for the officer to take a hatchet blow to the arm than to shoot an innocent bystander? Why are the officers being called heroes? Was the bystander non-white, so they don't count?
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Oct 2014 @ 10:00pm

IRA
"...the US needs to start spying on all the Muslims..."

Wasn't the IRA Catholic? Add Catholics to the list too!
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Oct 2014 @ 10:04pm

Re: IRA
Wasn't the IRA Catholic?

And most Italian Mafia mobsters.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Oct 2014 @ 10:06pm

This just gives more weight to the whole "False Flag" theory. Their reactions imply that they want tragedies to happen. They deliberately ignore the warning signs and end up persecuting everyone EXCEPT the actual threats. Maybe if they'd do their fucking job and mind their own business, there would be fewer idiot fence jumpers breaking in.
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Misha Springfield, 24 Oct 2014 @ 10:17pm

It's saddening (and getting to be maddening) that, in talking about this issue with a Canadian friend when the news broke, the first thing we nodded at was the thought that it was a mere matter of time until this kind of knee-jerk, opportunistic response happened. And we knew it was going to happen.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Oct 2014 @ 10:36pm

Time to contact my local MP and tell them that if having an opinion online becomes an offense, the petitions that follow are going to put 80% of our country in jail.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Oct 2014 @ 10:41pm

fire and brimstone and witches and wmd
This sort of thing was not unexpected. You weren't really going to expect the government to brush it off as some crazed oddball event that will probably never happen again in a hundred years, were you? No, indeed this sort of thing presents a rare opportunity for rulers, wannabe-rulers, and profiteers to reinforce their positions at public expense.

Rulers and swindlers throughout history have known that the most effective way to increase their power and make people more trusting and obedient is to keep them in a state of perpetual fear of something. Whether it's fear of unseen supernatural forces, witches, communists, or terrorists potentially hiding behind every bush, fear has always been and will always be used as a primary tool of conquerors, demagogues, and hucksters alike.

Because nothing works better than fear.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Oct 2014 @ 10:54pm

Dear US, UK, Canada and other aspiring dictatorships take heed: the more freedom and liberties you take away, the more you violate the founding principles of your countries, the more you move to an oppressive regime, the less the people are going to tolerate it. These people who have known freedom and liberty will not allow you to take it away.
Make no mistakes, this current path you're traveling WILL end in bloody revolution if direction is not reversed. It's easy to take power. The hard choice is giving that power away, and it only become harder each time you taste more and more of it.
This is not a threat. This is reality; this is the future should you continue down this path.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 1:20am

Stephen Harper is a coward
First he says:

""The objective of these attacks was to instill fear and panic in our country. Canadians will not be intimidated. We will be vigilant, but we will not run scared. We will be prudent but we will not panic."

And then, like the frightened cringing coward that he is, he proceeds to do exactly that less than 24 hours later:

"Harper pledged to speed up a plan already under way to bolster Canadian laws and police powers in the areas of 'surveillance, detention and arrest.'"

So Zehaf-Bibeau won, in the end. Not because he managed to take a life before losing his own, but because he managed to provoke the reaction he was trying for: fear, desperation, and cowardice.

I realize that here in the US we're full up of politicians who are just like this, but I hoped for better from Canada. How dishonorable to the memory of Nathan Cirillo! His body wasn't even cold before Harper began cynically exploiting the attack and pandering to the other cowering weaklings.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 1:35am

Well, that was quick. Almost makes me suspect that they expected it to happen
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Brew Jay, 25 Oct 2014 @ 3:37am

MORE JAILS ARE NEEDED
We need more jails for jaywalkers. Every time Harper builds another, his fundraising goes up.

Resentment Radio spews hate 24/7 supporting him. Listen to those poor pathetic losers whining about their sad little fates.

We get Fox News up here too, and those who can't think love having someone misthink for them.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 4:07am

It is interesting that the enhanced policing powers bill in question was scheduled to be introduced on the same morning that the attack happened.

Without the attack there was a very good chance it would have failed.

Now that people have been frightened out of their wits it a benefit to harper that lone nut attacked and shot a soldier as politicians that would have voted against the law will now vote to have it passed.

The Canadian newspapers might call that ironic I call it suspicious.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 4:12am

Re: A *Small* Correction
as much a coincidence as the Australian "terrorist attack" that was broken up by over 800 hundred police and several news reporters. Just in time for their controversial spy on everyone with only 1 warrant policing law.

Quite handy that attack that was supposed to happen, did happen just when people were going to reject that bill.

Harper already sold out canadian rights to the Chinese, is it too much of a stretch to believe he had a hand in this attack? the timing benefits him way too much to just be ironic.
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art guerrilla (profile), 25 Oct 2014 @ 4:44am

Re:
to paraphrase a quote from kennedy, one which is not repeated that often by the tutors of Empire:
when you make peaceful dissent impossible, you make violent revolution inevitable...

DESPITE violent crimes and police murders at an all time low, the police HAVE BEEN militarized and mobilized AGAINST the citizenry (well, 1% of actual human beans, and nearly 100% of korporate personhoods are immune to police riots)...

they shoot our dogs, they ransack at will, they steal our money, they lie, extort, fabricate, and conspire ALL THE FUCKING TIME, and NOT ONE OF THEM will dare to 'do the right thing' and testify against the thin blue line of liars...
NOT ONE...
and hardly any get called on -MUCH LESS prosecuted- for their MURDERS, no matter you have the fucking video or not...
no, they know *exactly* why these types of 'random' incidents happen, and know they are only getting more frequent and more violent: what do a LOT of people have to lose ? ? ?
the velvet glove is off, fear the iron fist of Empire...
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 5:00am

Re:
Pretty hard to predict what/how or when a mental health issue will affect someone, no matter how much data you collect.
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/we-need-less-security-not-more/
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 5:04am

Re: Stephen Harper is a coward
And then, like the frightened cringing coward that he is, he proceeds to do exactly that less than 24 hours later:

The Americans were finally able to put a call through to him. Also note, everything was already happening anyway, this is just an excuse to rush it through and avoid opposition.
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tomczerniawski, 25 Oct 2014 @ 5:27am

It's perfectly reasonable for PM Harper to want to know more about threats to his safety. After all, he couldn't get a clear view of the assailant from the cupboard he was apparently hiding in...

Better give up all our fundamental human rights, there's terrorists after us.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 5:31am

All our leaders are crooked. Their time will come.
I wonder how many attacks our leaders know about and didnt have a hand in creating but CHOOSE to allow to happen. You know, like "we let a couple die so we can pass a bill to save hundreds". That type of attitude.
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Amabo, 25 Oct 2014 @ 6:04am

Support mental health or I'll kill you.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 6:20am

Re: Surprised
Representative democracy...sad but true.
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scotts13 (profile), 25 Oct 2014 @ 6:21am

Re:
"Increased violence might be a symptom of increased surveillance. Just saying, they might be creating their own demons."

They always do. They create fictional demons to bolster their own power, then the abuse of that power summons real demons (patriots) to take them down. It happens over and over.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 6:24am

"...illegal to claim terrorist acts are justified..."
Yeah, all you Palestinian-lovers, STFU!

And all you Ferguson-supporters, the cops said "terrorism," so STFU!

Oh, and everyone else we don't like, well - TERRORISM - STFU!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 6:26am

I assume politicians are also using this incident to justify massive increases in mental health care funding, right? Right?
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edinjapan (profile), 25 Oct 2014 @ 7:43am

Let's put this into perspective
First, I'd like to offer my condolences to the family, friends and comrades in arms of a soldier who was performing his duty when his life was taken from him. He was an NCO in my former regiment, 2347 Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (Princess Louise) of Canada. He died too soon and too young.

Second, I'd like to point out that by arguing, quibbling and fighting on this forum over this topic you are demeaning his death.

Third, I'd like to point out that our PM doesn't speak for all the Canadian people when he makes his opinions known. His time will come and the Canadian people will force him to step down.

Fourth, Canada, unlike our neighbour to the south is not slipping into 3rd World Nation Status. We are a cautious and steadfast nation. We don't start fights but when provoked we will do everything necessary to win-even to the point of burning to ash the said nation's capitol.

Lastly, on November 11th at the 11th hour wear a red poppy and in remembrance of Cpl. Nathan Cirillo pause for a minute and honour him and those who have given their lives for their country.

Je me souviens
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nasch (profile), 25 Oct 2014 @ 7:47am

Re:
If what you are already doing, which literally is shitting on the Constitution,

That's quite a picture.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 7:48am

Re:
The public has no excuses now the internet is a huge information highway , laziness is the only excuse.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 7:49am

This, unfortunately, is the ridiculous cycle of kneejerk defenders of the police and surveillance state.
It goes further than that. The police brutality and Orwellian surveillance are probably some of the primary motivators behind civilian attacks on government agencies. As such, it's a ridiculous vicious cycle, with each new tyrannical act being met with violence, and each new violent act being met with tyranny.

Competent rulers would recognize this and try to defuse the situation, but these days "competent ruler" is an oxymoron.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 7:53am

Re:
except there is no increase in violence, them creating dots to connect is the only change, to bad they can't seem to connect the dots that show why ISIS exists in the first place , cause and effect.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:24am

Re: Re:
Are you saying the violence was always there and we are just now finding out it?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:26am

Re: Re: Surprised
Who are they representing? - Not a majority of the people.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:31am

Re: Re:
I was told they have constitution toilet paper in the congressional washrooms, and they think it's funny.
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Case, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:36am

Re: Re:
In general yes, somebody robbing a store with the stated intent to get caught and receive treatment a rather clear giveaway...
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:37am

Re: Re:
It is very difficult to predict what a mental patient will do after you let them out due to a lack of funding for proper treatment.
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Barney Fife, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:39am

Re:
I had 'em dead to rights Andy!!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:40am

Re: fire and brimstone and witches and wmd
What happens when the populace most fears the governance?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:44am

Re: Stephen Harper is a coward
Nutjob attacks school - gov reaction: Meh
Nutjob attacks theater - gov reaction: Meh
Nutjob attacks gov - gov reaction: OMG!!! Terrorists!!! Nuke from orbit
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:46am

Re: MORE JAILS ARE NEEDED
Are they For Profit Jails?
That would explain a lot.
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edinjapan (profile), 25 Oct 2014 @ 9:00am

Re: Re: MORE JAILS ARE NEEDED
Currently our prisons are run by the provincial or federal government. But, that may change if US lobbyists have their way.

So, how much will you pay us to burn down Washington and hold the president for ransom?
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this disgusts me, 25 Oct 2014 @ 9:10am

my question for those that wanted more powers
why was a man with a rifle allowed ot run all that far and do all that

surveillance and spy powers wont prevent a nut like that

and id like to see the email they speak of ( which i doubt exists after all they wont show it....and is easily faked)

they know who the 90 people talk too....so when a few days to a week goes by befor ethey claim such its highly suspect.

and why should i lose my rights to fight a once in a decade nut. ANYONE could tell you seeing the video they could have placed to small kiost like places( with an armed guard or two) at both those ends and THIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED

its the security they have that should be fired and the govt held accountable.

you dont need ot spy on granma or me playing video games and saying how i despise the govt that brings this civil rights abuse tome
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Personanongrata, 25 Oct 2014 @ 9:45am

Sellouts
These people aren't leaders, they're cowards in leadership positions.

These people aren't just cowards they're also tireless defenders of the status quo who are willing to subvert the very laws they claim to be upholding for their own personal benefit.
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peter, 25 Oct 2014 @ 9:51am

Well, that lasted
Stephen Harper 2 days ago
"We will not be intimidated. Canada will never be intimidated.”

Stephen Harper today
"Our laws and police powers need to be strengthened in the area of surveillance, detention and arrest".

So how is that whole 'not intimidated' going for you Steve?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 10:00am

Re: Re: Re:
I'm saying it changes faces, from this to that , but the paid off media ignores other acts and sensationalizes others
You don't hear about police shootings until a ferguson happens , but a politician or policeman gets shot it becomes a grave injustice to our liberties.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 10:10am

Re: Re:
Doesn't ISIS exist because part of the US government wanted a local group of Syrian rebels to fight against Asad, so they trained funded and supplied with weapons the insurgents that would grow into ISIS.

Not a coincidence there is that Mcain photo of him with various terrorist leaders.

Of course now that ISIS is targeting American interests who could have seen that coming, I mean it only happens every time the US funds and supplies violent terrorists.
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the threat to peace is the USA, 25 Oct 2014 @ 10:14am

@2 @7 @24 @36 @38
@2
what increased violence
2 attacks in how many years like forever?

no really look at gun deaths in canada vs your precious usa were a peace haven....im not allowing that to change cause of one or two nutbars PERIOD.

@7 yes they are they have been trying ot get this spy crap added for years last time the minister called everyone that wanted privacy pedophiles and the law got taken down.

THEY need it to give the nsa all it wants to spy in canada FUCK YOU AMERICANS im tired of your lazy chatty bullshit stance YOU ARE NOT MY FRIEND....YOU ARE CAUSING THIS TERROR.

@24
im not scared i dont see anyone else is either ...were angry what the guy did and the lack of security at the building , and that we have to lose any rights , you dont fight against them by becoming more like a dictatorship and police state. WHAT would really anger them would be to give us all more civil rights and make our nation more democratic and free.

@36 in fact he speaks for exactly 18.1% of eligible voters
nealy 40% of possible voters dont even consider voting for look at the garbage we get. you anger us enough harper we'll vote you out and this removing of my rights will not help you. Ask yourself this: how far will this go before a revolution occurs....and the only people that care about these politicians geting kille dis the tiny 10% that will vote for them.....its decreasing each year.....

politicians are the least liked in Canadian society, be truthful everyone ...do you really care if they got killed....my bet is a lot a people are saying ...with harper's policies its surprising it dont happen weekly.

@38
ya like i can kill you through your monitor RAWR....
the fact is they have been illegally spying on us for years now and they need the law to legalize it before a class action lawsuit hits the courts.

@39
and it goes further then that the following day the police in my city were pulling that same kind amove that hitlers SS did putting people all over the place.....
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 10:16am

Rep. Peter King who has declared that the Ottawa shootings mean that the US needs to start spying on all the Muslims to find out which ones are radicalized.

Sure lets see how far we can push and group people before they actually all become radicals, Peter King is a worthless example of a human being If he has children, It's my hope they choose Islam as their religion.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 10:30am

Re: Re: Re: Surprised
Ummm, majorities elect.
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Digitari, 25 Oct 2014 @ 12:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Surprised
"The Rich Elect"

(fixed that for you)
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 12:19pm

Re: Re: Re: MORE JAILS ARE NEEDED
Canada's incarceration rate is only a tiny fraction of that of its neighbor to the south. (The USA is the world incarceration leader in both raw numbers and percent of population)

Privatize the prisons, and watch it jump.
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Craig Hubley, 25 Oct 2014 @ 4:12pm

Re: Let's put this into perspective
You shame the memory of your friend by telling people not to oppose oppressive measures taken using his death as an excuse.

His memory is being abused and you are abusing it worse by demanding no "arguing" over the topic of abusive powers for abusive "leaders".

Canada is indeed "slipping into 3rd world nation status", it fell out of the top ten developed countries. Higher tech exports are destroyed by an inflated "petrodollar" based on Tar Sands speculation which now composes most of the exports of the country. Meanwhile when Harper took office, Barack Obama was refusing to give up his BlackBerry. What happened to that?
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blob, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:27pm

Re:
Freedom of the press was not attacked as much (or at all in Canada, except when it comes to federally paid scientists being muffled by the federal government...yeah thats something special we have here in Canadia). The UK is now going back to Thatcher years where freedom of the press is attacked, and Australia too, in some of the states there, I know about the anti-protest laws enacted by the Abbott Army, which seems even scarier than our own Adolf Harper Youth, down there, I know some laws are anti-freedom of the press to the max, like Paterson (governor) was in Queensland in the 80's, that place looked liked a police state and not only looked like it, it was, until Australians voted this party out en masse and they only had little bouts of power since the late 80's, but not anymore, the scary immigrants who kill themselves trying to get to your country are killed even faster now thanks to your coast protection service.

Sorry, it's late, my mind's unraveling heh
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 8:28pm

Re: Re:
I meant to say in Canada and the US(yep, its amazing how the whole place seems like an anarchy caused by overuse of laws at times.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Oct 2014 @ 9:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Surprised
"majorities elect"

Ok, the majority of those who vote - elect.

However, this is rarely a majority of eligible voters and therefore not representative of the constituents.

I find it amusing when, after an election, the "winner" claims they have received a mandate when only 40% of the eligible voters cast a ballot. Winner gets maybe 51% of those votes, meaning that only 20%+ of the eligible voters thought that person should represent all 100% of the constituency. This is Bozo politics.
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Anony, 25 Oct 2014 @ 10:42pm

Missing information
While I agree with the sentiments of this article, you're not covering the entire story. The day before the shooting in parliament, there was another incident where two Canadian soldiers were ran over: http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/martin-rouleaus-martyrdom
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Dr. Oh'No, 26 Oct 2014 @ 1:12am

Re: Re:
"Of course, he was active-duty Canadian military and not a terrorist in any technical sense of the word."

And the distinction between the two makes all the difference in the world, right? To my mind they don't, but that's only because I'm aware such distinctions rely almost entirely on perception. One mans revolutionary (aka freedom fighter) is another mans terrorist, or so the saying goes.

As a Canadian, I find such violence reprehensible. However, I find the politicians actions in lieu of these events even more so. If much of what the police/surveillance state supporters/apologists want were to come about, I feel it would only prove true what many of those scary "terrorists" have been saying about us all along.

Hopefully we can continue to protect our liberty and freedom from not only those without, but those within as well... all without having to leave the comfort of our living room couches of course. And if you think this recent violence in Parliament was bad, just wait until you see what it takes to regain your lost liberty. Same things it took to get it the first time around. Just read your own history, folks.
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the threat to peace is the USA, 26 Oct 2014 @ 10:44am

@58 @59 @61 @62 @64 @65
@58
when you can only get 18.1% of the people to vote for one party and thats a majority that get you in and THAT too is suspect due to illegal robocalls

see geulph and peterborough for exampels of actual l legal cases where mps could goto jail....or persons involved in it.

there were about 9 seats that lead to conservatives that this is suspected to have occurred ....thats fraud and that would mena they didnt get the majority of seats back then they would have been a seat short

@59 no not in canada they dont elect , we banned corporations form donating as well as unions...

Dean del mastro of peterborough skirted those rules having giving money to his brother who ran a company who gave cash ( the max alowed by a person to 12 people to donate back to dean del mastro)

@61
google temprorary foreign worker program why you might think we are slipping into a 3rd world state....WE ARE NOT if we stop that abuse of a program
thats election fraud up to 5 years in jail

@62 you dont need to attack the press in canada ROFL its already 100% owned by mega corps, and the cbc has a very liberal party stance.....

@64
61% of people who could vote voted 24.2 million possible voters
harper got 5.8 million (23% of the nations possible votes )
that led to 165 seat sin house
the ndp party got 4.5 million votes and that lead to
103 seats ..seeing an issue yet?

so 77% either didnt want to vote conservative or voted for something else....that is hardly a democratic way to look at it. I will add any of them that stands up saying they do shit for our nation when they could be doing ui dunno....

solar arrays on everyone homes in 5% homes across the nation so in 20 year s100% coverage is done that puts 45 billion into peoples pockets and increases general federal revenue by 13-14 billion a year (thats nearly a 5% increase of total revenue )

if they say they are for canada tell them or ask them why they are blowing up kids in middle east and flying jets uselessly around , having 1.2 billion dollar g20 parties and defrauding elections and making stupid copyright laws and ....ya know what that guy targeted them FOR A REASON...
he didnt goto a mall , a place you or i work he went at the jerks that are not doing squat for us.

he wants them scared. they should be cause now they are going to piss off everyone , by taking my rights away cause of a nut

@65 and if ya think govt is popular ask people why they dont vote and why we dont care about our military , only these mpds do.NO really we are peace keepers we should do that ...i am 100% for that... I AM NOT WANTING MY NATION TO BE ANYTHING LIKE THE USA.

The USA people are a bunch a lazy fat greedy lawyery police state lovers....

go watch your L.A. law will ya..and look at all the tv and movies were its always a fed or cop as a hero....reality they are smashing your car windows dragging you out and tazering you ..cause you forgot to carry your wallet....

papers please ...hail hitler...and dont you dare godwin me its a perfect discussion to start on cause its exactly what your nation has become.

THE USA IS THE THREAT TO WORLD PEACE.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Oct 2014 @ 1:56pm

NOT ONCE... Not once will they even dare questioning the roots of these attacks. Like stopping to mess up foreign countries in the first place, and withdraw from their imperialist operations.

Of course that's daydreaming... though that'd be the best way to insure "national security" if they'd REALLY care about it.
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GEMont (profile), 26 Oct 2014 @ 3:34pm

Oh No! Not another nutty conspiracy theory!!!
My guess.

This was a joint US/Canada false flag operation, done SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of Pearl Harboring the Canuks into allowing the American and Canadian Fascists to increase their legal power and rewrite some laws - to trade their freedoms for some promised security that will never arrive. Sound familiar?

The CIA/FBI programmed "nut-case" was fully directed in his little escapade, which is of course why they had to shoot his ass dead at the end of the skit. This is also why the news media knew the nutter waited for hours in the parking lot before acting.

Dollars to donuts the "nutter" spent the weeks before the Skit in a hospital or institution, (or was simply "missing in action" for a few weeks) while the boys did their magic on his head and trained him in the use of his new gear.

Steven Harp-player had his speech fully written and rehearsed three days before the nut-case did his thing.

Not sure if Harper hates Canadians or simply loves money so much that he cares for nothing else. It is the world's most addictive substance after all.

This is just another in a long line of the Five Eyes covert operations against the public of North America. All of those FBI Fake Terrorist Skits were simply practice for bigger and more important operations - like getting the Canuks on side in Obama's New War.

Fascists 645
Public 000

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GEMont (profile), 26 Oct 2014 @ 3:39pm

Hammer, meet nail.
Most astute comment of the year.

Fascists in Power. Police State advocates. Five Eyes.

"These people aren't leaders, they're cowards in leadership positions."

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the threat to peace is the USA, 26 Oct 2014 @ 4:13pm

@69
Shut the fuck up , here is a fuckin fact you nutjob conspiracy illuminati bilderburger nutjobs need to hear

paul martin the prime minister before that was paying down nation debt to 440 billion and leaving the current azzwipe 14 billion a year surplus WAS A BILDERBURGER.

ask yourself WHOM IS TRYING TO STOP GOOD GUYS LIKE HIM FROM DOING SHIT....think there for your conspiracy/

back to stupid 29th ranked math american time

we blame you
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the threat to peace is the USA, 26 Oct 2014 @ 4:16pm

@70
go more call them the treasonous rabble they are , look atwhat they did to the world

33.1 trillion in ONE ( of several tax evasion banks)

causing all kinds a division between race to cause war famine and pestilence and chaos....

it fucking reads like a alien invasion movie

they aint human beings
why should i car eif one gets his head blown off

they dont do shit for me
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Oct 2014 @ 5:59pm

Re: @70
At the top of the page, there is a clicky to select
"Flattened" or "Threaded"
Your forum experience could be enhanced if you so choose.

Just sayin ...
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ItsTooLate, 26 Oct 2014 @ 8:18pm

Farewell democracy, we barely knew you
All western governments are going down this track (have been for some time really).
We are slowly becoming the oppressive regimes we frequently see our elected officials reprehending.

I am more afraid of what my government is becoming than I am of a terrorist.

I think I have more chance of being run over by a moving vehicle than being killed in some sort of terrorist action, however moving vehicles are still allowed to function.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Oct 2014 @ 5:03am

Re: Farewell democracy, we barely knew you
Agreed.
Problem is, the corporations are scared shitless. And guess who controls government. It's not the little people, they are the ones forced to defend the worldwide corporate misdeeds.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Oct 2014 @ 5:16am

Its coming, the internet gestapos
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Oct 2014 @ 6:03am

Re: Re:
As the other post points out, this man was a terrorist. Shooting up a building is an act of terror. Ex-military or not, that man was a terrorist in every technical sense of the word.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Oct 2014 @ 6:26am

Re: Let's put this into perspective
Demeaning the death of a hired murderer who was killed while performing the very actions he was hired to do? Is it not demeaning to me that you are trying to erase my opinion on the matter because you feel some artificial attachment to this person? Of course we should argue about this. It's important!
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Oct 2014 @ 6:33am

Re: Farewell democracy, we barely knew you
This isn't a malady specific to Western cultures. All states fail because it is built upon the false premise that a state must exist at all. Humans were born unto the world without a state and somehow we tricked ourselves into thinking that sacrificing our individuality for the "common good" was a better way forward. After millennia not a single permutation of the state has ever produced less human suffering. It's absolutely abyssmal that so few see this, though.
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Just Another Anonymous Troll, 27 Oct 2014 @ 6:43am

Re: Let's put this into perspective
Just an FYI, I live in the United States and therefore I am not subject to your laws that make saying terrorism is justified a crime. Most of the argument is whether or not this was a false flag attack. Your attempt to shut down the discussion makes me suspicious of you.

Is it wrong that I think the government is not above trying to stop discussion here with this?
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Just Another Anonymous Troll, 27 Oct 2014 @ 6:45am

Re: Re: Re:
"One mans revolutionary (aka freedom fighter) is another mans terrorist, or so the saying goes."
Saying that terrorism might be justified! Go to jail! Go directly to jail! Do not pass Go! Do not collect civil liberties, because there aren't any anymore!
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Anonymous Coward, 27 Oct 2014 @ 7:50am

Let no good tragedy go to waste...
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John Fenderson (profile), 27 Oct 2014 @ 9:43am

Re: Re: Re:
"Shooting up a building is an act of terror."

While certainly scary and heinous, it is not necessarily an act of terrorism.
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GEMont (profile), 28 Oct 2014 @ 4:37pm

Re: @69
"Shut the fuck up... etc."

I'm sure that just about everyone here is wondering what any of this actually means and who its supposed to be directed at.

Then again, if you can't be bothered to air your thoughts coherently enough that others might understand them, I suppose nobody should be too concerned with what they might be.

While these two points may indeed both be incorrect, the best that can be discerned from the missive is that you're a Canuk and your pissed off - at something.

If so, then take a number and get in line.

Perhaps you should consider going back on your meds again though.
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Pragmatic, 29 Oct 2014 @ 5:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surprised
The trouble is, many people have given in to the notion that their vote is wasted if they vote third party. They haven't made the leap from "only 40%" to "the other 60%." Now if the other 60% voted third party, we'd see some results. It can and does happen, we just need the numbers.

And damn it, we need to stop being afraid that the other guy will get in if we don't vote for the least worst choice.
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Pragmatic, 29 Oct 2014 @ 5:56am

Re: Same old, same old
Yep, and the gun lobby has been vewy, vewy quiet...
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Pragmatic, 29 Oct 2014 @ 5:58am

Re: Re: Stephen Harper is a coward
...just to make sure.
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