WTF ATF: The ATF's Fake Retail Stores, Bad Behavior... And Why It Only Came Out Because They Failed To Pay Rent
from the wtf-indeed dept
This past week, on This American Life, the first 20 minutes or so are the incredible story of just how screwed up the ATF continues to be (the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms). Much of this has been reported on over the past year and a half by reporters in Milwaukee (and investigated by Congress), but it's absolutely worth listening to the details -- which you can do over on the This American Life page (I'd post the embed here, but unfortunately This American Life does not yet appear to support HTTPS, so we can't). The story is all kinds of stunning, including the insane fact that most of the details came out, and the reporters only began their investigation, because some undercover ATF agents in Milwaukee had trashed the property they were renting, and refused to pay the rent or damages to the landlord -- even threatening the landlord, claiming he was harassing federal agents by asking for the rent:John Diedrich: I get a call. And it was from a landlord, a guy named Dave Salkin. And Dave Salkin owns this place that he, unbeknownst to him, rented to the ATF. Didn't know who they were, they were undercover agents. And they had trashed his place, and they were behind on rent. They had threatened him. And I said, where are you, I'm coming right now.The other thing that becomes clear in all of this is that these "undercover" ATF agents aren't just sloppy and stupid, they seem to go out of their way to be ineffective and dangerous.
Ira Glass: While they were undercover, agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives basically ripped up his place. Salkin said at the time that they owed $15,000 in damages and back rent. Later he said it was more. When he tried to collect, they didn't pay up. In fact, an ATF lawyer warned him that if he kept asking for the money, it could be seen as harassing federal agents.
Ira Glass: And they were robbed. These agents whose job it was to get guns out of the hands of criminals had three guns that were stolen out of an agent's car while he was parked at a coffee shop. These included a fully automatic rifle. This is a machine gun, the kind that normally only law enforcement and military can legally have.There's a lot more like this. Including potential copyright infringement:
Not long after that, the store itself was burglarized of $39,000 in clothes, jewelry, and merch, reportedly, because the ATF had not bothered to do much to secure the store and just did not seem to care. Nobody was minding the store, literally.
John Diedrich: The ATF had no working burglar alarm on their building. So it was sort of, instead of a smash and grab, it was just this sort of like slow burglary. The neighbors report at one point, once they were able to get in-- again, no burglar alarm-- they kept the door propped open with a shoe. And they were just kind of taking stuff out.
And the word sort of spread. Hey, this place is just open. Nobody's there. We can just go get stuff. And at one point they just pulled up a U-Haul. And they were just sort of emptying this. And this is over several days. And then even--
Ira Glass: Renting a U-Haul is such a crazy move, because is it means that somebody had to go and decide, I'm going to rent a truck. That's how slow this burglary is, that you can do a rental.
John Diedrich: Yeah, exactly. And there's no sort of concern that you're going to be busted at that point, and just say, OK, I can only carry so much in my arms. Let's get something bigger. Let's get a U-Haul.
Ira Glass: The same day the burglary was reported, an ATF ballistic shield, the kind that they would use to raid a house or something, was turned in by a scrapper at a Milwaukee police station. One item that was just left lying around in the store after the robbery for anybody to pick up and read-- it was there when reporter John Diedrich walked through-- was a secret ATF document listing the names of undercover agents, their undercover vehicles from several law enforcement agencies in Milwaukee.
Ira Glass: And they distributed flyers with the store's logo, which was a skull with angel wings made from assault rifles and knives with the words Buy, Sell, Trade, wink, wink. Federal agents actually ripped off the logo from the Sylvester Stallone film, The Expendables, possibly in violation of their copyright.The story details just how incredibly counterproductive all these efforts were. Since they were paying super high prices for guns, people would suddenly start stealing guns just because the ATF was making them so valuable. And, despite the ATF pretending otherwise, the case in Milwaukee was hardly a one-off situation.
Raquel Rutledge: And as we started looking, really, truly, we came back to one other-- you're not going to believe this. I mean, we were shocked. I don't think we expected to find this going on. Absolutely not, did we expect to find that it would go on elsewhere, because you can't imagine this would be part of a playbook or an MO of a federal agency. So it was stunning to find. Had they been burglarized? Did they trash the landlord's place?There's a lot more in the story -- and it's totally worth listening to. But the most fascinating point of all may be the one right up front in the story, and then reinforced at the end. None of this likely would have come out if it were not for the unpaid rent.
We found in Portland the lady just said, I am so glad you called. She said, I have not known what to do. She said, they left my place in shambles. She had photos of what they left it like-- I mean, like a college fraternity or something. Just trash everywhere, they tore out some walls and they rewired some stuff and caused a leaky roof. She estimates her damages were probably $20,000 roughly, $20,000, $25,000. So that, you think, how does that happen? Is that, again, part of the playbook?
Ira Glass: Raquel and John looked into ATF storefronts in Wichita, Portland, Oregon, Pensacola, Albuquerque, Atlanta, and Phoenix. Some of the Milwaukee problems they found examples of in those other cities? Agents paying extra high prices for guns, buying stolen goods, criminals committing burglaries in the neighborhoods around the stores and then selling the stuff to the ATF. Raquel and John say that the quality of the convictions from these operations around the country, the kinds of people that the ATF was catching were mostly small fry, just like in Milwaukee. The ATF store in Pensacola was robbed just like the Milwaukee store was, twice.
It wasn't the squid tattoos or the low-IQ employees or getting robbed over and over. It wasn't the way they caught and charged suspects. It was that landlord in Milwaukee. If they hadn't trashed his place, or if they had just paid him promptly to repair it instead of fighting him over every penny, apparently, he wouldn't have called the newspaper. John and Raquel say the whole thing might never have come to light.The whole effort has resulted in some attempts to actually disband the entire ATF, which might not be such a bad idea. While we hadn't been following the agency that closely (and hadn't been aware of all of these fake storefronts and the crazy stories behind them), in the past we've reported on how the ATF made up an entire robbery plot in order to entrap a group of poor young men in a "crime" that wouldn't have existed, but for the ATF's fantasy.
It would be nice to trust law enforcement officials, but they keep giving us reasons not to trust them at all.
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Filed Under: atf, bad behavior, guns, retail stores
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Unsurprised
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Re: Unsurprised
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If they used a ream of paper to make flyers, then they owe the producers of The Expendables, $75,000,000.
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And what happened to the guns?
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Re: And what happened to the guns?
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Re: And what happened to the guns?
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Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
Wouldn't it make more sense to have two separate agencies, one for the drugs and one for the weapons?
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Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
Not that I think the ATF is a good idea. Personally, I'm of the mind that we should scrap the lot of our federal level enforcement/intelligence/security agencies and make just two. One for internal, and one for external. Bonus points if the system is set up so that the two are adversarial to each other.
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Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
A weapon is not a vice. A weapon is a tool. Completely different.
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Also, crack might actually be cheaper than a shooting habit, with the price of ammo nowadays...
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Re: Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
Tobacco = vice
Vise = tool
Weapon = tool
See? It all makes sense!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
Congresscritter = toolbag
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Re: Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
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Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
No, hell no! The Second Amendment to the US Constitution confirms our right to own firearms, it doesn’t "Allow" it.
That's like saying the only rights we have are those allowed by the US Government.
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Re: Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
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When the bill of rights was being debated, many of the participants didn't even want it because precisely because of your comment. They were afraid that people would interpret them as being granted instead of natural.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
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That selfsame document claims the right to appropriate remedies against governments unable to meet this high standard.
If you were educated in America in the last 30 years, you're unlikely to have read it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
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Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
Completely unrelated? I never heard of a non-smoking gun.
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Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
Never heard of smokeless powder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokeless_powder
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Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
Because of 2nd Amendment, they can't infringe, but they can tax guns. Hence the 200$ tax on short barrelled rifles, sawed off shotguns, or fully automatic weapons, to be paid when you file Form 1.
Oh, and the fee when they conduct their 'background check' which is largely a check to see if you have paid your taxes.
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Re: Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
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Re: Alcohol, tobacco, and *firearms*
Tobacco was added to their portfolio not long after, but the real kicker came with GCA '68, which drastically expanded the scope for firearms regulation. The bureau was split off from the IRS not long after, and has slowly snowballed into the incompetent monster that we see today.
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The ATF doesn't even have a head at the top to roll
The reason is because the NRA convinced congress to change the ATF to make their head need approval by the senate before they take the job. And then the NRA opposed EVERYONE both Bush and Obama have ever nominated to head the ATF.
That's the reason why Eric Holder was getting the blame for the Fast and Furious scandal despite having nothing to do with the ATF's day to day operations. He was the closest thing to an appointed head of the ATF congress could find to blame.
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Re: The ATF doesn't even have a head at the top to roll
The ATF has proven itself, over and over, to be less of a regulatory agency and more of an arm of anti-gun politics. Gun rights orgs might not have gotten involved in the appointment of ATF directors, but for the fact that everyone vetted for that post was pushing for more restrictions - and the ATF gets to make up its own rules as it goes along, rather than relying purely on laws as written. This means that by playing policy, the ATF director has a lot of power to make life hell for gun owners, and there's damn-all they can do about it.
So yeah, appoint an administrator? Sure. Appoint some tool with an agenda? Yeah, no.
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Re: Re: The ATF doesn't even have a head at the top to roll
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Didn't seem relevant to the point.
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heh, where did all the kop apologists go ? ? ?
mason ? ? ?
what up ? i am 100% certain that you can spin this shit into gold...
PLEASE, tell us how this is ALL the citizen's fault, richtig ? ? ?
fucking dingleberries, go clean your loaded guns...
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Re: heh, where did all the kop apologists go ? ? ?
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Re: heh, where did all the kop apologists go ? ? ?
Please excuse these bastard cops... I mean, really, fuck those guys.. ermm... no wait.. shit I messed it up.
Sorry!
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Re: Re: heh, where did all the kop apologists go ? ? ?
K, first of all, your using too much of your brain. Stop that.
Next, you need to feel that righteous indignation that the masses want to do away a police state. Only you stand between them and themselves!
Say to yourself, "Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve."
K, now.............action!
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Re: heh, where did all the kop apologists go ? ? ?
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...machine guns...
Last time I checked it was perfectly legal for a private citizen to own and possess a machine gun; HOWEVER: the paperwork requirements are such that most people won't bother. Mostly gun shop owners are now the only people with such licenses. The criminals won't bother with the licensing process.
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Re: ...machine guns...
It's still possible to buy a previously licensed full-auto, but they're basically unicorns. A grandfathered buzzgun with paperwork sells for a lot more than most folks (who aren't millionaires) can afford, and the market is really damn small, since they rarely come up for sale. There's also the small issue of, as mentioned, the ATF needing to approve the transfer.
Any current-generation full-autos in criminal hands tend to come from outside of the US or are stolen from police departments.
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Re: Re: ...machine guns...
Considering the direction that Police Departments have been leaning in, according to the all the recent news about their "shopping trips" and "acceptable homicides", methinks that statement might be more realistically written thus:
"Any current-generation full-autos in criminal hands tend to come from outside of the US or are purchased from the back door recycling shops of police departments."
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This American Life
This American Life is an excellent program. I download the podcasts & listen regularly on my commute. Their explanation of the global financial meltdown was the best explanation I ever heard. They covered patent trolling very well also.
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Re: This American Life
The circle is now complete. TD gives me that final little push to start listening to Podcasts. Mentions This American Life. I listen. Now I read back on TD about what I listened to. =)
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LAUGH MY @#$@# OFF
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We were founded on the principal of legal equality and that even the president would face prosecution for breaking the law.
Who want's to start a list of Principle's that were essential, to the ideals we were founded to preserve, that have now been abandoned in practice!!
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If Fast and Furious had been done by the Wylie Coyote Gun Co., the CEO and high company officials would already have been tried and convicted and be in jail. The Board of Directors would be facing charges of improper oversight. The company itself would be facing millions of dollars in civil rights violations lawsuits brought by the DOJ on behalf of the families of the hundreds of folks killed by the weapons willfully and knowingly sold to known criminals.
But since the ATF did it, the worst that happened was one official retired with benefits, a few others were transferred to other duties, and the whole thing covered up.
If Wylie Coyote Gun Co. had hindered the investigation like the ATF/DOJ has, they would also be facing Obstruction of Justice charges. Since the hindering is done by the DOJ, it is called Executive Privilege.
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http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Alcohol,+Tobacco,+Firearms,+and+Explosives,+Bureau +of
"For more than 80 years, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms was an agency of the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The Homeland Security Act of 2002, Pub. L. No. 107-296, 116 Stat. 2135, divided the agency into two bureaus: the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (still referred to as ATF) and the Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB). Effective January 24, 2003, the ATF became part of the Justice Department, while the TTB remained part of the Treasury Department. The move of the ATF to the Justice Department would allow ATF agents and inspectors to partner with traditional law enforcement agencies, such as the Federal Bureau of Investigation. With this change, the TTB became responsible for revenue collection and regulation of legitimate alcohol and tobacco industries."
In other words, as of 2003, ATF is now a branch of the DOJ. Ant questions?
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Oops
DOJ. Ant questions?
S/B
DOJ. Any questions?
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Re: Oops
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Never Happen
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Todd Jones got his promotion for silencing whistleblowers.
The fish rots from the head.
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