Dick Cheney Says CIA Torture Report Is 'Full Of Crap' -- Then Admits He Hasn't Read It
from the judging-a-book-by-its-cover dept
It's no secret that those most closely responsible for the CIA's torture program are pulling out all the stops to attack the Senate Intelligence Committee's report on the program, trying out a variety of defenses from "it actually saved lives" to "it's just a partisan hack job." So it should come as no surprise that former Vice President Dick Cheney has been making the cable TV news appearances to help attack the report. After all, many have argued that the real person behind the torture program was Cheney and his staff -- and to date, Cheney has insisted that everything that was done was perfectly reasonable and he'd do it again. Thus there's no surprise when Cheney appears on Fox News (because, of course), to claim that the report is "a bunch of hooey" and "full of crap" and "deeply flawed" only to then admit " I haven't read the report."Wait, what?
Even the Fox News interviewer was taken aback -- and Cheney must have realized how stupid he looked, because he then tried to backtrack, arguing that he hadn't read "all 6,000 pages," but then saying he'd read "parts of it" and "summaries." Yes, we've all read "summaries." But some of us have sat down to read the whole 500 pages (minus the redacted bits, of course). You would hope that if Cheney was going on TV to respond to questions about the report that he might have done so as well, rather than just repeating the talking points handed out to folks associated with the program. Apparently not.
From there, Cheney shifted over to his other key talking point -- one that is entirely debunked by the report itself:
“How nice do you want to be to the murderers of 3,000 Americans?”Yeah, great. Except the report makes it fairly clear that many of the people tortured had absolutely nothing to do with the attacks on 9/11. In fact, the only real "revelations" from the torture program was that the CIA torturers concluded that the people being tortured really didn't have any relevant information. Furthermore, the "how nice do you want to be" line is incredibly revealing and disturbing, because it sets up an unending war. What's to stop millions of people angry at America from justifying new terrorist attacks on us based on "how nice do you want to be to torturers from America?"
No one was saying that we should buddy up with the people responsible for 9/11, but to pretend the only other option is to torture many innocent people is psychopathic.
It won't surprise anyone, really, that Cheney will defend the torture program that he oversaw. But his comments here are sickening and should be quite eye-opening about the level of cognitive dissonance from the powerful people who were responsible for this incredibly shameful period in US history.
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Filed Under: cia, dick cheney, torture, torture report
Reader Comments
The First Word
“I'm quoting this single word from the article just so I can First Word it.
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Catch up, Sparky. That was the whole point of this article.
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Well, we have not read Dick Cheney, and we know he is full of crap, so it must be possible to have the knowledge in an alternative manner.
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He didn't need to read it to know what's in it because he approved it as it was ongoing.
Nobody still believes The Shrub was actually in charge, do they?
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It's full of him, and he's full of crap. Q.e.d.
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His problem is he doesn't want held responsible for his part in it.
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The usa is NOT a signatory to the world court.
The reason is for this exact scenario, if they aint signed up they can not be hauled in front of it.
Yet another dirty trick of the usa govt.
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wat
“How nice do you want to be to the murderers of 3,000 Americans?”
Well, waterboarding charred corpses would have been about as productive.
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Re: wat
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"How nice do you want to be"
the need for intelligence, not on good of the people, not even on the progress of US corporate interests, but good old fashioned bloodthirsty revenge.
Thanks, Dick. We just out-barbarian'd the barbarians.
Break the skin of civilization and you find the ape, roaring and red handed.
-- Robert E. Howard, calling this bullshit for what it is.
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Re: "How nice do you want to be"
It's Reichskristallnacht. Cruelly punish people suspected to having similar genes.
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Re: Re: "How nice do you want to be"
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Re: wat
A lot nicer than I want to be to you, DICK.
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Re: wat
might jog his memory and his excrement comment.
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they didn’t bother to interview key people involved in the problem
I'd suggest we interview those people using the same techniques they were using, but that would be wrong...
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- Cheney logic
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Obviously this wasn't about wanting information.
This was about being angry enough to tie someone to an anthill, or leave someone in the desert to die of exposure.
Information was irrelevant. Information was a weak justification.
...and we're still doing it.
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Bottom line is that the report shows illegal activity happened and that the activity was hidden from the public eye to avoid the consequences of wrong doing. Which means that both the committers of the crime and those that covered it up should be charged and tried in a court of law.
Then steps should be taken to mitigate the possibility of crimes by the government (not just torture) occurring in the future and from being covered up.
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Since Obama has allowed this war on terror to continue, has done nothing to stop it, has refused to close down Gitmo as he said he would, has personally overseen the death by drone program, has continued to allow NSA mass surveillance, ...
You partisan hacks are moronic. Go blow your nose. You're dripping snot all over your keyboard.
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Apparently, I'm insufferable when I'm smug about being right. If it's any consolation, I feel a bit sick about being right about this.
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Good to know: Cheney is all for releasing the Panetta report since that report was written from people interviewing the torturers and witnesses.
I have to agree with Cheney here: it definitely would seem that such a report written without the idea of being politically palatable and censored all around would be worth a lot more.
In the mean time, we have to deal with the whitehousewashed version which likely smells a good deal rosier than the crap that actually went on.
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When intelligence agencies you are in charge of are doing things you "don't want to know about", you may want to re-think your managerial approach.
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Strong oversight
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Re: Strong oversight
noun
1. an unintentional failure to notice or do something.
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Hawking
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Re: Hawking
Of course he does. Halliburton, the company he was CEO of (and I'm sure he still owns tons of stock in) profits from war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton#Controversies
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Re: Re: Hawking
I should probably cover my ass here and say that I'm not actually "sure" about that.
Although, IMHO, I suspect that it is true.
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Re: Hawking
Now just imagine if something happened and he became president.
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Re: Re: Hawking
Nothing would have changed. Cheney already made most of the decisions in the White House. Bush Jr. never disagreed with his "advice." Cheney is most notable for being the most powerful "vice" president in U.S. history -- the hidden hand inside the puppet that was George Walker Bush.
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Re: Hawking
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Why Am I Not Surprised
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I wonder how much of the facts Cheney or anyone outside of the CIA actually knew. From the parts I have read it seems like all the information on what the CIA was doing was scrubbed before it ever left the CIA. This was done to prevent full oversight of the program. So it is possible that Cheney thinks the report is full of crap because he was briefed on false information the whole time he was involved with the program.
Not to defend Cheney but it seems more like the CIA just did whatever it felt like while only cherry picking the information to divulge to officials.
Hope to see at least a handful of people arrested as a result of this.
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Nobody. DOJ will not prosecute and the US will not submit anyone to any kind of international law or tribunal.
I wonder how much of the facts Cheney or anyone outside of the CIA actually knew.
While it is possible that the CIA kept everything from Cheney and Bush, Cheney said in his interview that was untrue and that the President was fully aware of everything he needed and wanted to know.
Not to defend Cheney but it seems more like the CIA just did whatever it felt like while only cherry picking the information to divulge to officials.
If that were the case, you would see people being prosecuted by now. Neither Bush nor Cheney are above throwing someone under the bus when they are able to. If this information was being hidden from them, they would not be telling us otherwise right now.
Hope to see at least a handful of people arrested as a result of this.
I hate to crush your hopes, but that seems pretty unlikely. At most, this will be considered a "learning moment" in US history and "we won't do it again". Meaning our leadership will learn to keep this information hidden better next time.
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However I agree with your response that this will probably be only a "learning moment" lacking any real discipline.
Of course relying on the intelligence community to both suggest, execute, and self-enforce laws is like leaving a dog to guard a piece of meat left on a table. No matter how well trained the dog is eventually the meat will be stolen by the dog if the handler doesn't intervene.
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So I would say that while CIA may have divulged less than all truth to the politicians, the politicians could easily have pressed for real information if they wanted to. I think plausible deniability is the true culprit again, again.
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(And, uh, why would a "political hackjob" about Bush reveal that the CIA lied to Bush about both the scope and the effectiveness of their torture? Why would the CIA hack into, lie about hacking into, and then eventually admit to hacking into the computers of the investigatory committee if the investigation was without merit and transparently political hackery?)
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Question - did we torture/use "enhanced interrogation techniques?"
If you say no, then you're contradicting the CIA's own accounts of what they did.
If you say yes, then you're admitting that the CIA committed war crimes.
Why does it have to be a partisan issue when it's revealing that? Are you actually saying that admitting that the CIA committed war crimes is just something Democrats do and not something that a moral person would do?
If a Republican, say, I don't know, John McCain came out and said that we shouldn't torture, would that make you think otherwise? Um...because McCain did come out and say that.
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There is this Laurel&Hardy film ("Sons of the Desert"?) where Hardy can't find his glasses and Laurel cheerfully reads him a letter from his lover. She's giving him the boot. So Hardy winces and sighs, and Laurel asks "What's the matter?" -- "Well, haven't you just read the letter to me?" -- "Yes, but I did not listen."
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cruel *AND* unusual punishment ... not to mention disgusting
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Shoots his friend, get appology from friend?
Now on Fox (is it?) News bitching about a report he hasn't read.
I am Jack's utter lack of surprise.
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Actions have now caused more terrorism
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But I do hope someone keeps a copy of the screenshot image at the link. That cornered rat look speaks plenty for him.
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The wrong question.
“How nice do you want to be to the murderers of 3,000 Americans?”
The correct question is “How alike do you want to be to the murderers of 3,000 Americans?”
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Re: The wrong question.
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Re: The wrong question.
http://snag.gy/xJRHB.jpg
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I'm quoting this single word from the article just so I can First Word it.
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Pot calling kettle black
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Re: Pot calling kettle black
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Has any single individual harmed America, EVER, than Dick Cheney?
Osama? Don't think so, at least not directly (I mean, one might say, "Well, Cheney couldn't have done what he did without Osama" but that's kind of like saying Jeffrey Dahmer's mother is at fault for his serial murders.)
Hitler? Stalin? Bush II? Obama? Johnson? Greenspan? Bernanke?
Impossible to quantify, obviously, but all in all, seems to me that the nature of the harm done by Cheney is in a category of its own, akin to the damage some hypothetical President would do if he, say, slung a few nukes around.
America will pay very dearly for what would almost certainly have never occurred without Cheney's active ring-leading.
The best thing America can do at this time in history to help redeem its reputation, protect its citizens present and future, and safeguard the integrity of the rule of law in America, is to bring Dick Cheney and many others to justice (i.e., try and then hang them.)
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Re: Has any single individual harmed America, EVER, than Dick Cheney?
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The man is a monster. Sort of like a vampire and interestingly, for those unaware, Cheney, for about a decade, has been running on an artificial heart that pumps blood continually. That's right, he has no heart beat. True story.
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Is Cheney a sadist?
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How "nice"?
I want to be as "nice" to them as the law, international treaties, and centuries of American principles demand that I be. I want to treat them humanely. I want to see that if they are accused of crimes, they are told of those accusations. I want to see if they are tried, that such trial is held in a timely manner and that they are provided with competent legal counsel and thus a robust defense. I want them to be able to confront their accusers via cross-examination and to be able to present witnesses in their favor. I want them to be fully accorded their rights under the Geneva Conventions and under international law and under American law at all times.
Because that's how it's done. That's how civilized nations behave. That's how proud, strong nations that aren't afraid of a few trifling "terrorists" act. That's how countries who refuse to be cowed by a mere pinprick of an attack (which is all that 9/11 was) respond. They do not throw their principles out the window in panic and they do not whimper like frightened children at the threats of bullies.
This isn't a matter of being "nice" to them or not -- although I'm sure war criminal Dick Cheney likes phrasing it that way. It's a matter of principle, pride and patriotism. It's a matter of truly being American, not in the flag-waving anthem-singing sense, but in the sense envisioned by those who founded this country.
Not so long ago, the United States and allies tried and executed people for doing exactly what Dick Cheney did. Not so long ago, the United States decried renderings and mock trials and extrajudicial executions and mass surveillance and political persecution and torture and all the other things that we said the Germans did, the Japanese did, the Russians did, the Chinese did. Not so long ago, the United States said that it was important to defeat those countries -- either militarily or politically -- to stop those things from happening. And now we've done them all, thanks to men like Dick Cheney: weak, frightened, lying, sadistic and cowardly men in positions of power.
History will not look kindly on them.
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Re: How "nice"?
I think Halliburton just secured a department of education contract that will have them writing all history textbooks for the next 50 years.
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Re: How "nice"?
History is written by the victors, and in this case, it's the US. Sure, the report will get attention, but Cheney, Bush, and all the CIA heads will never go down in history as monsters. Like other people are saying, they won't even be brought to justice.
And in all fairness, "justice" isn't torturing them like they tortured people. Justice is what you said in your post: accuse them of a crime, bring them into a court of law, and lay out the evidence.
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Re: Re: How "nice"?
That's a very, very premature call, since the "war" isn't done yet. From where I sit, it looks like the US is losing.
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"Written by the victors"
Nero was popular with the people, not with the Senate, and it was very easy to point fingers in order to further political hatred. Nero himself would later blame the Christians. Fires started in Rome all the time, and sometimes they got out of control.
Caligula's scandalous reputation, on the other hand, remains as steadfast as ever.
So I think that history does sometimes sort itself out. It may require that we go through archeological data, but we get a better idea. To be fair, we look at Rome more conservatively than it probably was, just as we were more excited by its scandals in the 20th century.
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Re: Re: How "nice"?
I beg to differ. History is not written by the players. It's written by the people; by historians who come from the people. The best the players can do is put some spin on the story, but the truth will out. Eisenhower's final speech in office was damned good, but that's the best they can hope for. These guys are nowhere near that good, they resurrected torture in 21st Century USA, and they'll not be well thought of by posterity for it.
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Re: How "nice"?
not just Cheney a monster but several in both Political parties.
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I was once a LIHOPer
They already had a considerable history attacking Americans, and a false flag operation of this magnitude would require an exceptional number of sociopaths to remain tight lipped.
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CYA
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Re: CYA
Seems the denials are entirely plausible to Fox News viewers. Goebbels would be proud.
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Not your average Dick
Now I think it was a premonition.
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Cheney
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Darth Vader
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Richard Bruce Cheney Coward
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The point is someone like Cheney got into office.
Whether things were once different or not is irrelevant, the system fails to filter out the Joffreys and does not work.
At this point, we'd be better off selecting a dozen candidates every year randomly from the social security system (including infants and centenarians) to run for office.
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He knew what had happened, and most of the report's contents.
But by refuting that the report was accurate, while claiming not to have read it, he can avoid arguing over specific details or incidents that can be proven. He will be careful to be interviewed only by friendly parties to avoid being pinned down on any specific aspect of the report.
The real take-away is that he is defending rather than distancing himself from the program, and he is trying to President Bush to the decision. From that I conclude that his name is all over the reporting chain, and there is no plausible deniability that can be sustained over the long term. But he does think that President Bush might be able to deny knowledge and doesn't want to risk becoming the scapegoat.
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Unending War
Isn't that the objective?
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Re: Unending War
You focus the people's attention on an external threat, while saying dissidents are tied to said threat. You slowly make certain rights people used to have illegal while tightening your grasp.
Eventually you can come out into the open and break laws and ignore rights because people either do not care or they blindly believe the reasons you give them.
"to fight terrorism you must give up your freedoms" "sure thing" says the citizens.
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Another problem that I see is Cheney talkes about 3000 civilian Americans. Take a look at the civilian casualties in the various countries the US isnt at war with but bombs to their liking. Those are what? 50'000, 100'000? I lost count.
If the terrorists would think like Cheney then they could do whatever they want.
Not saying they should do it or that it's a good thing(personally Im against torture of any kind) but if you compare the numbers then those guys more or less can make the Saw movies in real life and Cheney had to say "I get it, they are in their right to do that", if he sticks to his argument.
So in my opinion, not the torture report was the thing that might make things worse but the reactions you see now that it is out.
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Re:
The reasoning of a lunatic, coming from America's powerful.
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Similar principles hold for torture.
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My bet is on...
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It reminds me of Macbeth
He knew in advance, because he got the memo from Yoo saying it was all right to torture people in defense of some other atrocity.
For the sake of justice, I'd personally like to see him and anyone who was connected with the program to undergo the exact same torture techniques that were used then to get the truth out from them now.
Heaven only knows it will be the only way we'll ever get it.
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Re: It reminds me of Macbeth
Uhm no? It contains those tidbits that survived self-censorship of the CIA and the hacking of the Senate Intelligence Oversight committee's computers.
The total list of war crimes he is responsible for would be much much more ugly. Compared to that, the Senate report is a bunch of crap.
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http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/01/31/1518741/sean-hannity-waterboard/
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Re: ("enhanced" waterboarding)
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Re: Re: ("enhanced" waterboarding)
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"Dick Cheney is a war criminal"
Cheney was also pardoned of all wrongdoing by the president and held harmless by a law passed by congress, so he's out of reach of American justice. (well, legal American justice at any rate.)
Cheney was tried in absentia by a German tribunal who found him among those responsible for the US torture program. So he's at risk of extradition to the EU to face charges, should he ever travel abroad.
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How do we know Cheney is telling the truth?
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The Last Word
“The wrong question.
Cheney is asking the wrong question:“How nice do you want to be to the murderers of 3,000 Americans?”
The correct question is “How alike do you want to be to the murderers of 3,000 Americans?”