School Principal Contacts FBI After Student Throws American Flag Out A Window
from the perhaps-the-most-'Murica-thing-that-has-ever-happened dept
In the stupidest case of school administrators taking federal agencies' names in vain since a Huntsville, AL school swore a phone call from the NSA prompted its secret social media monitoring program, a middle school principal from Espanola, NM is threatening to sic the FBI on a student who threw an American flag out a classroom window.
A middle school principal said a student was misbehaving with his friends and took things too far. The student threw an American flag out a second-story classroom window. Now the principal says the 14-year-old needs to be held accountable.Sure, maybe a stern discussion with him and his parents and a couple of weeks of detention would do the trick. But that's not enough for Principal Robert Archuleta. He has already suspended the student for 10 days and is now pushing for his expulsion. But he also wants the feds to take control of the situation... because jingoism.
“He says, ‘Because I was just messing around,’ and he started to laugh,” Archuleta said. “Then the other kids were laughing, the kids that were with him. ‘There goes the flag.’ That was his last statement.”Well, let's stop you right there, Robert. Nobody "died over the flag." The flag is a symbol of this country and what it stands for, but it is not what people die "over." They die defending this country and the freedoms it affords its citizens -- among them being the right to throw a flag out the window. It's not as starkly effective as burning it, but it's pretty much the same thing.
The principal is a veteran. His father is also a veteran who fought in World War II.
“A lot of men have died over [the flag], men and women,” Archuleta said. “We fought to keep our country safe and to keep it free.”
Archuleta believes this amounts to the federal crime of desecrating the flag… except that no such law exists. Sure, legislators who also mistakenly believe they've sent people off to "die over the flag" have repeatedly tried to pass laws making this a crime, and they have repeatedly been told "please stop doing this" by the Supreme Court. These same misguided lawmakers have also sought to dodge the court system entirely by proposing Constitutional amendments to the same effect, but have yet to see these ratified.
So, turning this student over to the FBI to be "held responsible" for a non-existent crime will be completely fruitless and only side benefit will be the entertainment it provides to those who enjoy watching fools prove themselves foolish. (Which, granted, is a lot of us...)
The FBI told KRQE News 13 they haven’t yet received the complaint yet, but if a federal crime was committed they will investigate and turn the results over to the U.S. Attorney’s office.But there hasn't been, so it won't. All that will happen is that Archuleta will continue to make one student's life completely miserable because he doesn't seem to comprehend nothing more than a personally-offensive incident has taken place. And he's apparently willing to wrap himself in the now-dusty flag to do it. Loving your country is one thing. Assuming it won't be able to weather this 14-year-old's assault on one of its many symbols without federal intervention is quite another. And using your misguided patriotism as the impetus for punishments that far outweigh the non-crime is an abuse of the power granted to you by the public.
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Filed Under: alabama, american flag, fbi, huntsville, robert archuleta, school, students
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But perfectly fine for a totalitarian regime.
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How do you throw out a flag
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Re: How do you throw out a flag
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Re: Re: How do you throw out a flag
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Re: How do you throw out a flag
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Re: How do you throw out a flag
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Re: How do you throw out a flag
NOT because that tradition changed, but because we couldn't be bothered, *THAT'S* how much we love 'murika...
blowhard, spittle-flecked 'patriots' are the worst...
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Re: Re: How do you throw out a flag
If you didn't have a light illuminating it.
(Yes, how many of us have a light illuminating our flag(s) at night?)
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Re: Re: How do you throw out a flag
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Re: Re: Re: How do you throw out a flag
Like when another report about a three-letter agency wiping their ass with the Constitution makes the frontpages?
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Re: Re: How do you throw out a flag
The tradition is to EITHER take the flag down OR light it at night. It is by nature not obvious who is leaving unlit flags up at night. ;-)
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Re: How do you throw out a flag
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Re:
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Defending something you care about is fine, but this is an abuse of power.
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freedom of speech, wll covered by penn and teller
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You'd be wrong about that. In the war of 1812, men defending fort McHenry from a British attack put themselves in the path of cannons that were trying to knock down the American flag. Their corpses were all that kept that flag from touching the ground, and those were the events that became the lyrics for the Star Spangled Banner.
That said, dying over a flag is a foolish gesture. Someone dying to defend principles and liberty are a different thing entirely. To take offense at the abuse of a flag is just silly. The flag is not sacred, but people are. Anyone who abuses a flag should not be ostracized for the flag. Instead, they should be reprimanded the same as anyone who would vandalize a building. Conversely, anyone that abuses a flag out of grievance with the government it represents should actually be called a patriot. That's what patriotism is, telling the government that they are infringing your fundamental rights.
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Re: Fort McHenry
Whereas I look at as a foolish waste of life - as George S. Patton said, "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
But, to paraphrase Mark Twain, that's why it's called "Congress". Because it's the opposite of "Progress".
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Re:
Could that have been not so much love for a piece of cloth, but because a dropped flag was a sign of surrender ("striking the colours"; also see, "nailing one's colours to the mast")?
My only knowledge in this area comes from reading Patrick O'Brian novels, so I'm happy to admit I may be talking mince.
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Even further, during the American Civil War, a flag barer or also known as color barer and color guard (who were responsible for keeping the color barer safe, but often failed, and if the color barer was lost, they stepped in to take the position,) was a very esteemed and privileged and also very deadly position. Your job was to keep the flag flying at all costs, and when you lost yours, another flag barer would step forward to take the position. Flag barers couldn't fight back, as their hands kept the flag flying and thus couldn't manipulate their weapons.
It is the main reason why military and civilian barers are flanked by color guard with ceremonial weapons today...
However, the best way to fix this disrespect for the flag is through talk, not through locking the person up and preventing them from getting an education. Teach them why the flag is so important, and why so many people died *under*, not over, the flag. They didn't die for the flag, they died for their brother or sister, or the ideal of America. The kid probably hasn't had a good influence in their life to sit them down and show them what it really means.
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A flag BEARER carries the flag. "Bear" means to carry something (a burden, a child, a flag, some object)
PLEASE USE THE CORRECT WORDS!
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Re: Re:
Even abroad a ship, if he colours were taken down by the attacker, it didn't mean the entire ship's company had surrendered, it just changed the legal status of the ship itself (which was important for the laws regarding salvage and prizes). If the defending captain ordered the colours struck, that was in implicit order to surrender, but even that didn't prohibit an attempt to recapture the ship later (exactly how much later was legal depends on who won).
In the case of Fort McHenry, it wouldn't have made any real difference anyway, because the British weren't really interested in the fort (unless they could destroy it easily), they just wanted to raid Baltimore and cut out or burn the shipping.
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Even when men have dropped their weapons to pick up a flag, it doesn't mean quite what is claimed -- that the flag was so important that it mustn't touch the ground.
Flags were an important signaling device in battle. Before radio, the best way to communicate was often with flags. A flag flying over an island fort let the city know that it was still defended. A fallen flag would trigger an evacuation or surrender.
But... only four people died in the Ft. McHenry battle that inspired the Star Spangled banner. That could hardly count as a pile of corpses.
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Well there's the problem
It was probably true of the teachers and principles that were in charge of his education, or obvious lack there of.
They only seem to see the stick, and not the carrot, when it comes to discipline. Being a veteran, one would think he learned something of leadership, which he apparently forgot when he mustered out.
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Or...
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Obligatory Princess Bride quote
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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@8
hi from canada , the winner of 1812
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and ....
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It does not look likely to stir a man's soul,
'Tis the deeds that were done 'neath the moth-eaten rag,
When the pole was a staff, and the rag was a flag."
- Sir Edward Hamly
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Problem Principal
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Re: Problem Principal
Yes, I'm sure that will work splendidly.
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Re: Re: Problem Principal
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Teacher needs to be taught.
A damned principal should know that it wasn't a piece of cloth he fought for, but what it represents... which is exactly what he, not so subtly, is stomping on.
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>_
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Re:
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Jokes aside, this idiot principal is attempting to ruin the life of a student over a non-crime. I really hope the parents contact the ACLU and sue the school district. Their refusal to step in and correct the situation makes them just as guilty. Perhaps writing a few large checks will help provide some clarity...
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Cushing you're a goddamned fool
An ensign falling on the battlefield was tantamount to defeat. Have you never wondered at the meaning of the four stanzas of "The Star Spangled Banner"???
Ignorance is bad enough. Militant ignorance, from a slacker no less, is intolerable.
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Re: Cushing you're a goddamned fool
http://www.concretenetwork.com/
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Re: Cushing you're a goddamned fool
That's funny, and here I thought they were dying for their nation.
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Re: Re: Cushing you're a goddamned fool
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Re: Re: Re: Cushing you're a goddamned fool
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Re: Re: Re: Cushing you're a goddamned fool
Hell, 'desecrating' the flag doubles the potential symbolic mismatch: not only may two people have different ideas of what the flag symbolizes at any given point, but burning a flag may as well. Does the burning represent a rejection of what is symbolized, or does it represent the idea that others (usually the government) are themselves destroying what is symbolized?
The kid in the story tossed a symbol of authority out the window. The principal is the highest authority in the school, and may have taken it as a personal insult while hiding behind a veneer of 'patriotism.' Or it might've all been something completely different.
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Re: Re: Re: Cushing you're a goddamned fool
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Re: Re: Re: Cushing you're a goddamned fool
That's just crazy talk. The flag is a symbol, not a nation. Further, precisely what meaning the flag holds depends on the context in which it appears. They are not even close to being one and the same.
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Grammar Nazi Alert
While the principal may be an idiot, the city has not forgotten its tilde.
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'People died for your freedoms! Just, you know, not the ones I don't like.'
I wonder if he even realizes what he said there. He claims that people fought and died to keep the country free, yet not, apparently, free to express your opinion, one of the most important freedoms around.
The student may have tossed a flag out the window, but by his actions, it's the principal that's showing such massive contempt for it, and the people who died for what it's meant to stand for.
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Re: 'People died for your freedoms! Just, you know, not the ones I don't like.'
The problem here, is that it's always been considered to be an additional duty of our educators to install our children with a bit of civic knowledge, duty and pride. But those things just aren't "cool" anymore, and seen as downright oppressive. Right up to the point that assholes like this think that their precious freedoms have been infringed.
If you like those freedoms so damned much, than have just one grams worth of balls to stand up to the douchebags that want to piss on the very thing that symbolizes them.
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Re: Re: 'People died for your freedoms! Just, you know, not the ones I don't like.'
You don't honor the sacrifice of those that fought and died to defend the freedoms of those from their home country, by attempting to punish someone for exercising those freedoms in a manner that you happen to disapprove of, as long as in so doing they aren't harming anyone(feelings don't count).
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That's quite a fall,
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Re: That's quite a fall,
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I cannot blame the principal
And now all that is left is the flag. Can you blame him for not wanting to have that taken away as well?
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I most certainly can
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Re: I most certainly can
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One of them being if the kid chucked the flag protesting what america has become, then give him a damn medal
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Many people died over the whims of LEADERS.......who MANIPULATE peoples good nature
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People who enjoy waving flags...
It's a Banksy quote
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Metonymy is lost on some
Have you really never heard of the rhetorical device of metonymy? To die for the flag is to die for what the flag represents. Now you may be a pacifist and find the notion morally objectionable, or an anti-militarist and hold the notion in contempt, but don't feign stupidity and act as if you don't understand a classical rhetorical device.
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Re: Metonymy is lost on some
That actual fact is that there is a portion of the population for whom it's not rhetorical at all. They see the physical flag as being some kind of holy relic.
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Want him to be accountable? Bill him for damages. Kids being (idiot) kids are not something that even needs to rise to the local law enforcement level, much less the FBI who have important things to do like fake terrorist plots.
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One of the freedoms that people have died for
In this particular case, the student did not own the flag in question, so the student might be guilty of vandalism -- but that's a different issue entirely that has nothing to do with it being a flag, and the FBI would be immensely uninterested in it.
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Re: One of the freedoms that people have died for
But without what it stands for, all that is left is a piece of cloth or paper.
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He has set the bar for expulsion pretty low, and one wonders how many children will end up expelled before they wise up and expel him from his position.
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Flag Code
And yeah, the kid did something stupid. 14-year-olds do things like that. The School Principal did something more stupid, and is old enough to know better.
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Memorial Day 2015
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Remembrance Day
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publish academy
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