UK Plans To Do Away With Free Speech... In The Name Of Free Speech

from the as-expected... dept

Wed, May 13th 2015 10:33am — Mike Masnick

Last fall, we noted that UK Home Secretary Theresa May had made it clear that if her Conservative Party were re-elected, one of the first orders of business would be a new "Extremist Disruption Orders" plan that would outlaw any speech or events that the government declared "extremist." She wasn't kidding around. Following last week's election in the UK, David Cameron appears to be announcing just such a plan to basically wipe out anything resembling free expression in the UK (and, yes, I know, the UK doesn't view free expression in the same way as the US does, and there's nothing like the First Amendment there -- you don't have to point that out in the comments). The broad-reaching plans seem absolutely insane:

The orders, the product of an extremism task force set up by the prime minister, were proposed during the last parliament in March, but were largely vetoed by the Liberal Democrats on the grounds of free speech. They were subsequently revived in the Conservative manifesto.

The measures would give the police powers to apply to the high court for an order to limit the “harmful activities” of an extremist individual. The definition of harmful is to include a risk of public disorder, a risk of harassment, alarm or distress or creating a “threat to the functioning of democracy”.

"A risk of harassment"? "Alarm or distress"? That could include just about anything. A "threat to the functioning of democracy"? Does that include public protests or arguing against the current leadership? The likelihood of abuse seems absolutely, astoundingly, massive.

They would include a ban on broadcasting and a requirement to submit to the police in advance any proposed publication on the web and social media or in print. The bill will also contain plans for banning orders for extremist organisations which seek to undermine democracy or use hate speech in public places, but it will fall short of banning on the grounds of provoking hatred.

Yes, that's right. If you wanted to tweet something that creates "distress," you'd have to first submit it to the police to get their okay.

Oh, and here's the really insane part. David Cameron is claiming that he's doing this in the name of free speech. No joke:

“For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone. It’s often meant we have stood neutral between different values. And that’s helped foster a narrative of extremism and grievance.

“This government will conclusively turn the page on this failed approach. As the party of one nation, we will govern as one nation and bring our country together. That means actively promoting certain values.

“Freedom of speech. Freedom of worship. Democracy. The rule of law. Equal rights regardless of race, gender or sexuality.

“We must say to our citizens: this is what defines us as a society.”

Did you hear that? That's the sound of actual free speech supporters having their collective jaws hit the floor. Here he is, saying that for too long we've been "tolerant" of free expression, and thus we have to ban it, in support of "free speech" and democracy. And he flat out admits that they no longer think "obeying the law" should keep you out of trouble. That's some incredibly Orwellian bullshit right there.

As Glenn Greenwald rightly notes, once again it appears that the biggest threat to free speech is not from terrorism, but from those claiming to fight terrorism. He also points us to a video of Theresa May going on and on about how this is about "promoting British values" and stopping those who "look to divide our society." So, they don't want to "divide" society... and they're going to do that by telling everyone they can only have views that the government finds acceptable.

In short, the current UK government is promoting an out and out war on free expression, by saying you can only have free expression if you spout government approved thoughts.

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Filed Under: david cameron, extremism, free expression, free speech, theresa may, uk

111 Comments

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Ninja (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 10:30am

And reality meets art. The guys that made V and Orwell don't seem too crazy or the idea too far fetched now do they? These guys were prophets.

Welcome to the new Dark Ages. In the UK at least.
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John Nelson, 13 May 2015 @ 10:45am

Isn't this the plot behind V for Vendetta?
Remember remember the 5th of November indeed.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 10:50am

This is a bad thing?
>previously..."as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."

So now obeying the law isn't enough? What's the point of having laws at all, then?
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Just Another Anonymous Troll, 13 May 2015 @ 10:55am

Free speech means free speech for everyone. If you take away the right to free speech for extremists, you take away the right to free speech for everyone.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 10:56am

The US Constitution is amazing
Stuff like this just shows how much foresight the founding fathers had when they framed the constitution. It also shows why such a document is needed. Times and places change, but people do not.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 10:57am

Re:
Everyone is an extremist to someone.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:01am

This is just a continuation of possession of material of use to a terrorist, such as plans of Important buildings etc.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:03am

if ISIS is the enemy why do the common people keep taking hit after hit to the jaw?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:05am

Re: The US Constitution is amazing
I doubt the founding fathers envisioned the Constitution and Bill of Rights to be granting rights to things that are not human.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:14am

Is hypocrisy a British value now?
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Michael, 13 May 2015 @ 11:16am

“threat to the functioning of democracy"

These plans are, without question, a threat to the functioning of democracy.

Everyone involved should be jailed immediately.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:17am

Any bets on when he will introduce the thought police? I cannot wait for this level of silliness to leave the EU (He promised a referendum about it). Shockingly, it may be the lesser of two evils to support UKIP on this point!
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:17am

If you really believe in free speech...
Quit clicking "report" to hide comments when you just simply don't like the ideas expressed.

Because censoring ideas is the essence of censorship. You kids don't have any ground to stand on against government when you sneakily censor here and make up excuses.

Self-proving example! You kids don't like this idea nor being called "kids" so you'll censor this!
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:22am

Re: Re: The US Constitution is amazing
"I doubt the founding fathers envisioned the Constitution and Bill of Rights to be granting rights to things that are not human."

I doubt the founding fathers envisioned the Constitution and Bill of Rights applying to the use of telephones. Isn't it great how new discoveries can exist without having to write a new constitution?
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Just Another Anonymous Troll, 13 May 2015 @ 11:25am

Re:
Oh hi blue...
We hit report when a comment is rude or trollish, not to censor its ideas. At any rate, that sort of 'censorship' is pretty ineffective, as one can easily unhide the comment. If it was truly censored, it would be disappeared forever (not that most of your comments don't deserve such a fate), not merely collapsed.
Also, this comment is clearly a troll and calling us kids is rude, so I reported your comment. So there. You're still free to express your opinions though, and still free to make an ass of yourself.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:25am

Re:
This comment would make more sense on a website that actually offers the functionality you describe.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:26am

Re:
Last I checked Mike Masnick is not a government official.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:26am

Re:
"Because [censorship] is the essence of censorship."

How insightful. Please, tell me more.
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CK20XX (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 11:26am

Re:
It's not censorship because you can still click on the link to see the comment, as I'm sure this comment will soon demonstrate.

Techdirt, for better or for worse, is a very democratic environment. Sometimes I wish the staff here would actually start punishing trolls and keep the community clean via deleting comments, IP bans, and other such things, but on the other hand, the present system does seem to work because it provides commenters all the rope they want for hanging themselves.
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Tweak (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 11:27am

We've reached something like Poe's Law here. I have reread Cameron's statements several times and I still can't tell if they're real or lines taken from some dystopic novel.
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John Fenderson (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 11:33am

Re: This is a bad thing?
They're in the process of doing away with laws in order to preserve the rule of law.
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Rich Kulawiec, 13 May 2015 @ 11:34am

Brief memo to the British government
My book was not intended as a "how-to" manual.

Sincerely,
George Orwell
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John Fenderson (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 11:35am

Re: Re: Re: The US Constitution is amazing
"I doubt the founding fathers envisioned the Constitution and Bill of Rights applying to the use of telephones."

I disagree. I think that they envisioned the Constitution as applying to everything the government does. They did not envision the principles laid out as being tied to specific technologies.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:36am

Re: The US Constitution is amazing
Unfortunately they fucked up HARD on that slavery thing.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 11:51am

Re: Re: "keep the community clean" -- You're for purity, eh?
>>> I wish the staff here would actually start punishing trolls and keep the community clean via deleting comments, IP bans, and other such things,

NEWS FOR THOSE TAKEN IN BY TECHDIRT: ALREADY DOES. this little censor HAS HIS WISH.
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S. T. Stone (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 11:56am

Re:
What branch of the United States government does Techdirt represent?

Trick question! It doesn’t represent any of them. This explains why Mr. Masnick or whoever monitors the comments around here can do whatever they feel necessary to retain a sense of decorum around here without running afoul of the law: no such action represents censorship.

If you comment gets hidden under a “reported” flag, that doesn’t make your comment go away permanently. (And if you whine about the single click it takes to make your comment visible, anyone who calls you “lazy” has a point.) The hiding of your comment won’t rescind your right to reprint that comment anywhere else on the Internet. And Techdirt has no legal obligation, in any jurisdiction, to keep your comment “unhidden”.

You have a right to your opinion, even if you didn’t do the work necessary to hold it, but everyone else has the right to ignore it. Someone who ignores you or hides your comments has not censored you; they’ve simply decided that your opinion has no merit. If you proclaim dissent and the ignoring of bad opinions/ideas as “censorship”, you insult those who have actually had their opinions/ideas censored—those who cannot speak but for the actions of a government (or even a violent mob) that would punish them for speaking.

You have a voice. Try using it for something worth a damn.
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:03pm

Seems like British citizens get what they deserve. The Conservatives said they'd do this if elected, so I don't feel any sympathy if they're stupid enough to put them back in power. Enjoy your police state, UK!
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jupiterkansas (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:07pm

Re: Re: The US Constitution is amazing
If they tried to tackle slavery at that time, there wouldn't have been a constitution.
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RD, 13 May 2015 @ 12:11pm

Re:
Reported, because I disagree that reporting you is "censorship."

My opinion is just as valid as yours. If our opinions do not agree, it is not "censorship" to state (report) such.
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David, 13 May 2015 @ 12:13pm

Re:
Too crude for a dystopian novel. It's satire. About the level of sophistication of Monty Python's "Mr. Hilter". However, the Pythons were funnier and more original.
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James Burkhardt (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: The US Constitution is amazing
That was kinda the point of the second sentance in the AC's comment, the part you helpfully didn't quote.
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David, 13 May 2015 @ 12:14pm

Re: Brief memo to the British government
Sorry, that's not out of "1984". That's "Animal Farm".
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Ambrellite, 13 May 2015 @ 12:16pm

Response to: Nastybutler77 on May 13th, 2015 @ 12:03pm
A large number of our representatives here in the U.S. share the same authoritarian mindset, and are only thwarted (partially) by constitutionally-guaranteed rights.
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Feldie47 (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:18pm

Why the surprise?
Brought to you by the folks who jailed Gandhi because he was an extremist (he differed in opinions), who jailed and tortured peaceful dissidents throughout the ages and who still accept a poorly behaved monarchy as a rightful and proper adornment of their society? Wait until they use the latest face recognition software on the cameras ubiquitous in London to determine who on the street is and is not extreme. Off to the tower?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 12:19pm

Re: Isn't this the plot behind V for Vendetta?
Strength through Unity
Unity Through Overly-Broad, Poorly-Written Laws.
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James Burkhardt (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:20pm

Re: Re: Re: "keep the community clean" -- You're for purity, eh?
they noteably refuse to delete your comments, and i doubt they have instituted an IP ban, given both you and they know how worthless those are. But you make a claim. Prove it.
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Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:22pm

If only
And I didn't think any political party could make UKIP seem sane and rational by comparison...

Ooops, I think I hear the police at the door for dissing the government!
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RichP, 13 May 2015 @ 12:23pm

Policing by Consent
It's a subtle distinction, but here in the UK the police act by the consent of the people; legally they have to act in a way that is approved of by the general population. In the US you have the police acting by decree; they can do what they damn well please providing it's not explicitly banned and thus they get away with murder.
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sehlat (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:25pm

Orwell Was Incomplete
War is Peace

Freedom is Slavery

Ignorance is Strength

He left out: Censorship is Freedom of Speech
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James Burkhardt (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:26pm

Re:
Censorship, as in the suppression of speech by the government with the weight of fines and prison time, is not comparable to having your inflammatory comment attacking the community flagged for being inflammitory and attacking the community. We still allow you to speak. We just aren't listening to you.

I am unsure how you claim they 'sneakily' censor, as they announce the comment has been flagged, its quite clear that others have responded to the comment, and viola, I am responding to your flagged comment. Also, the flagging doesn't work on Techdirt lite (the mobile version). So those readers get you in your full glory.
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Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:33pm

Re: Policing by Consent
It's a subtle distinction
So subtle it's undetectable...
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James Burkhardt (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 12:35pm

Re: Policing by Consent
While, yes, that in theory is how the UK police force works, the article just in theory made it a crime to criticize the actions of the police. (I can see such criticism falling under "risk of public disorder", "risk of harassment", "risk of alarm", "risk of distress" and "risk of creating a “threat to the functioning of democracy”, depending on how you want to look at it).

I mean, I can see the potential to make it hard to address police overreach when criticism is met with jail time because it risks raising an alarm. Don't you?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 12:35pm

Re: Re: The US Constitution is amazing
Plantations were the fore-runners of modern corporations, wherein human beings were used as small cogs in a giant money-making machine. The slave-owners were making too much money to allow the out-lawing of slavery, and their money and power was needed to create a new nation. If they were told "no slavery in this new nation", I suspect they'd have backed the British. Then we'd have become South Canada and would all have really good free medical care now.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 12:43pm

Re: Re: The US Constitution is amazing
On the contrary, the Constitution and Bill of Rights do not grant rights to anyone or grant them at all. Rights are inherent, and the Constitution, and particularly the Bill of Rights serve to limit the governments ability to intrude on them. It's part of why the Bill of Rights was added after the Constitution was ratified, the original arguments were that these natural rights existed regardless of the government. Others eventually won out, wisely noting it's the tendency of governments to infringe on natural rights.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 12:49pm

Re: Why the surprise?
Also the same people who thought of Nelson Mandela as a terrorist.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 12:52pm

Re: Re: This is a bad thing?
Indeed. The next step is for the government to simply abandon the rule of law and simply rule by decree, "to maintain order" or some such.

I can't help but go straight for the Godwin on this (and tie in the bulk records retention ridiculousness that's been going on). Try these quotes on for size:

"It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion."

"The English follow the principle that when one lies, it should be a big lie, and one should stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous."

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
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John Fenderson (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 1:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The US Constitution is amazing
My bad. I missed the (now obvious to me) sarcasm in it.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 1:12pm

If you really believed in free speech then you wouldn't have censored this before!
QED.

Quit clicking "report" to hide comments when you just simply don't like the ideas expressed.

Because censoring ideas is the essence of censorship. You kids don't have any ground to stand on against government when you sneakily censor here and make up excuses.

Self-proving example! You kids don't like this idea nor being called "kids" so you'll censor this!

[ They like clicking "report" and I like what that shows about Techdirt, so it's win-win.]
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 1:14pm

Re: Re: The US Constitution is amazing
> I doubt the founding fathers envisioned the Constitution and Bill of Rights to be granting rights to things that are not human.

I suspect the founding fathers never envisioned that "things" would be charged with crimes, either. My stack of 99 $100 bills, confiscated by the DEA on suspicion of being in a drug transaction, or by the IRS on suspicion of being used in "structuring", is hardly comforted by your statement.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 1:40pm

Re: Policing by Consent
Sounds like a distinction without difference.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 1:42pm

Re: If you really believed in free speech then you wouldn't have censored this before!
I didn't even know Techdirt had a report button. Does that require javascript to be enabled?
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Dirkmaster (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 1:44pm

Countdown
until anyone disagreeing with this new policy being labelled an extremist in three, two.....
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 1:46pm

Re: If you really believed in free speech then you wouldn't have censored this before!
Censorship is when people prevent, or try to prevent you from speaking. Free speech does not mean that you can demand that people will listen to you. The report function here is people saying that they do not wish to listen to you. Stop confounding being prevented from speaking and being ignored, and demanding that people listen to you.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 1:48pm

Re: Re: If you really believed in free speech then you wouldn't have censored this before!
Yes, because it requires user interaction.
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S. T. Stone (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 1:59pm

Re: If you really believed in free speech then you wouldn't have censored this before!
You proclaim Techdirt has censored you, yet you’ve made the same comment twice and still have the legal right to post that comment anywhere else on the Internet.

So…how has Techdirt suppressed your right to express yourself freely, again? Because I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word “censorship”. If anything, you seem to want the concept weakened so no one can ever disagree with you or delete/hide/ignore your comments without being called a “censor”.

If anything, your attempts to stifle discussion by labelling others as “censors” seems like more of a move towards censorship than Techdirt hiding your comments.
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tqk (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 2:27pm

Re:
Because those common people are Shia, silly.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 2:55pm

It worked for Hitler, Stalin and any other semi intelligent dictator in the past.

People do not learn from history. If you want to do something unpopular you phrase it in a way that suggests its the complete opposite of what you will do.

To do the old standby. Have fun telling your great grandparents and grandparents that fascism won in the end.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 3:03pm

Re:
shame he doesn't just marry the queen so he can become the king he desperately desires
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 3:04pm

Re: If only
fairly soon there will be a major false flag event to warm the general public up to this idea
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Guardian, 13 May 2015 @ 3:25pm

this guy sounds like hitler on speed
hitler just roled over in his grave and smiled , he approves all this...
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 3:29pm

Tyrrany 1 Freedom 0

Right, ill be back after my mandatory amount of prison time for that bit of "extremism"
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 3:34pm

Re:
Actually, THEY will still have free speech, or technically, the ONLY speech, THE, APPROVED speech

Aint freedom fucking grande

Fucking hypocrates and bloody sychopaths that they are........."replaced" a monarchy with another bloody monarchy
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CK20XX (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 4:03pm

Re: Re: Re: "keep the community clean" -- You're for purity, eh?
You honestly sound like someone who thinks the Apollo moon landings were staged. That's why no one can take your claims seriously.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 4:05pm

Re:
I promise, if they add a "fuck you" button, I'll quit hitting "report".
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1984, 13 May 2015 @ 4:14pm

UK is more fascist than the US.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 4:39pm

and dont forget how that same government took away internet freedom, using the ages-old story of 'protecting the children' when the idea was to please Obama's sponsors in Hollywood! the UK may well be going down a slope that is getting steeper by the minute, but the USA government is giving it a fucking good push to help it on it's way! the internet website blocking is being done, more than for any other reason, because the USA doesn't/wont do it! someone has to be stupid enough to take the lies and bullshit spouted by the entertainment industries and in doing so, the UK 'cements the special relationship with the USA'! what a crock of crap!!
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Rekrul, 13 May 2015 @ 4:50pm

"A risk of harassment"? "Alarm or distress"? That could include just about anything. A "threat to the functioning of democracy"? Does that include public protests or arguing against the current leadership? The likelihood of abuse seems absolutely, astoundingly, massive.

It's not "abuse" if that's the (secret) intent of the law right from the start.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 5:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: "keep the community clean" -- You're for purity, eh?
not to burst your bubble there but the US government recently admitted they faked the initial moon landings at the time. Since they were no where close to being ready for it and they wanted to beat the Russians for the obvious morale boost it provided during their cold war.

Eventually they did land on the Moon, but funny enough it was faked to delay the Russians and give them more time.

Kind of funny eh how sometimes the things previously claimed to be crackpot theories tend to become actual reality when enough secrets get leaked.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 5:06pm

Re:
Just like the USA's anti terrorism laws are being used to suppress and arrest peaceful protesters that go against what big money and government corruption wants.
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Spaceman Spiff (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 5:21pm

Even Richard the 8th
I think that even Richard the 8th would be spinning in his grave! He may have taken the heads of people who expressed things he disagreed with, but at least they would have had the opportunity to express them first!
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James Burkhardt (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 7:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "keep the community clean" -- You're for purity, eh?
Source?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 7:10pm

Re: Policing by Consent
Do I need to remind you of some of the cases in which UK police have gotten away with murder as well?
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This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 7:17pm

And of course all CENSORED yet again!
Clearly you kids have no ability to see how you're EXACTLY like Cameron, insisting that you're doing it for the ultimate good!

If you really believed in free speech then you wouldn't have censored this before!
QED.

Quit clicking "report" to hide comments when you just simply don't like the ideas expressed.

Because censoring ideas is the essence of censorship. You kids don't have any ground to stand on against government when you sneakily censor here and make up excuses.

Self-proving example! You kids don't like this idea nor being called "kids" so you'll censor this!

[ They like clicking "report" and I like what that shows about Techdirt, so it's win-win.]

>>> When will money grubbing assholes realize that evidence is required in order to prove allegations?

Ah, but you try to pull the trick that copyright owners must prove a case beyond all reasonable doubt, when the value lost is only a few bucks. That's obviously not cost-effective so the pirates are advantaged.

I don't support Rightscorp as such, but to disparage ALL claims to intellectual property, go against all the law in the copyright area that are exactly the compromise that's been worked out, to say pirates can take whatever they wish of other people's work, when it's YOU pirates who are outside of law, that's just contemptible.

So I've become FOR stiff punishments. I just wish that your thefts didn't cause ME trouble, but bad laws are caused by those who don't keep their paws off other people's stuff.

>>> What's funny though is how a lot of trolls end up thinking they're being punished by Mike when their comments are flagged by the community.

First, Masnick is a partisan who controls the forum. He has definitely blocked ME from home IPs. This is NOT an open "platform", this is Masnick tiny kingdom.

Second, mis-using "report" to suppress ideas IS just plain censorship.

Third, labeling those disagree as "trolls" is just typical of what to expect here.

I was just now BLOCKED after two posts by "free forum" Techdirt. I have to use Tor to get in at all!
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 7:19pm

And of course all CENSORED yet again!
Clearly you kids have no ability to see how you're EXACTLY like Cameron, insisting that you're doing it for the ultimate good!

If you really believed in free speech then you wouldn't have censored this before!
QED.

Quit clicking "report" to hide comments when you just simply don't like the ideas expressed.

Because censoring ideas is the essence of censorship. You kids don't have any ground to stand on against government when you sneakily censor here and make up excuses.

Self-proving example! You kids don't like this idea nor being called "kids" so you'll censor this!

[ They like clicking "report" and I like what that shows about Techdirt, so it's win-win.]

>>> When will money grubbing assholes realize that evidence is required in order to prove allegations?

Ah, but you try to pull the trick that copyright owners must prove a case beyond all reasonable doubt, when the value lost is only a few bucks. That's obviously not cost-effective so the pirates are advantaged.

I don't support Rightscorp as such, but to disparage ALL claims to intellectual property, go against all the law in the copyright area that are exactly the compromise that's been worked out, to say pirates can take whatever they wish of other people's work, when it's YOU pirates who are outside of law, that's just contemptible.

So I've become FOR stiff punishments. I just wish that your thefts didn't cause ME trouble, but bad laws are caused by those who don't keep their paws off other people's stuff.

>>> What's funny though is how a lot of trolls end up thinking they're being punished by Mike when their comments are flagged by the community.

First, Masnick is a partisan who controls the forum. He has definitely blocked ME from home IPs. This is NOT an open "platform", this is Masnick tiny kingdom.

Second, mis-using "report" to suppress ideas IS just plain censorship.

Third, labeling those disagree as "trolls" is just typical of what to expect here.

I was just now BLOCKED after two posts by "free forum" Techdirt. I have to use Tor to get in at all!
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That One Guy (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 8:20pm

Claiming it multiple times doesn't make it true
Don't want to keep being sent to time out, stop acting like a child. Spamming the exact same crap, over and over, yeah, you're going to be reported for that, as anyone would.

Also, just a quick definition primer:

Message is gone, cannot be seen, because it flat out does not exist anymore = Censorship.

Having spam hidden behind a single mouse click because of 'abusive, spam, trollish, or otherwise inappropriate' post = Not censorship.

Really, do you also think spam filters are 'censorship', because they toss junk messages into the trash so people don't have to deal with them? Also, for someone screeching about how much you've been 'censored', funny how people seem to be able to read your ranting just fine.
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That One Guy (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 8:27pm

Re: Re: If you really believed in free speech then you wouldn't have censored this before!
The funniest part of course is that more often than not, those that are crying the loudest about how TD is 'censoring' their posts are also among those that are fine with 'shoot first, ask questions never' anti-piracy efforts that lead to people having accounts deleted, sites seized, and similar things.

This in spite of the fact that a hidden comment can be read with a single click, but a seized site or blocked account is freakin' gone. Apparently it's only censorship when it happens to them.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2015 @ 9:33pm

out_of_the_blue just hates it when due process is enforced.
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techflaws (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 9:35pm

Re:
Quit clicking "report" to hide comments when you just simply don't like the ideas expressed.

It's not that we don't like your "ideas", they're simply that stupid and obnoxious we're trying to protect others from letting you wilfully derail discussions.

And now quit the whining, already.
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techflaws (profile), 13 May 2015 @ 9:38pm

Re: If you really believed in free speech then you wouldn't have censored this before!
All you offer here is inane BS, not ideas which again aptly demonstrates with your wilfully obtuse claim of being censored.

QED.

*clicks report*
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eponymousCoward, 14 May 2015 @ 1:23am

"If you wanted to tweet something that creates "distress," you'd have to first submit it to the police to get their okay."

Can you submit it via a tweet? @police
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cypherspace (profile), 14 May 2015 @ 3:55am

Re:
Orwell was just Eric Blair's pen name. Maybe you mean 1984 /pedantic
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Just Another Anonymous Troll, 14 May 2015 @ 4:50am

Re: Re: Brief memo to the British government
Also by George Orwell.
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Just Another Anonymous Troll, 14 May 2015 @ 4:54am

Re: Claiming it multiple times doesn't make it true
It's pretty obvious that he understands the concept but he's gonna keep hollering about censorship anyway. I think we should stop feeding the troll now.
P.S. If you actually got IP banned or your posts deleted (not likely because nothing seems to shut you up and I've seen plenty of posts not deleted), you deserved it. You do nothing constructive for this community save fling vitriol and yell "CENSORSHIPS!1!!!one!" whenever you're rightly reported. You're not changing any of our minds, especially not like that. Just give up.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2015 @ 4:58am

The real problem
The real problem is that BOTH major parties were planning to do something like this - just from different directions:

Ed Miliband was committed to "outlawing Islamophobia"

Now I realise that you could construe his words as applying only to anti-muslim violence or discrimination but the boundary between discrimination and speech can be difficult to define.

So if you want free speech who do you vote for in the UK?
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observer, 14 May 2015 @ 6:48am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "keep the community clean" -- You're for purity, eh?
Here's my favourite source on the Moon landing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw
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observer, 14 May 2015 @ 6:49am

Re:
37% of the votes cast were for their lot. Much fewer in many places.
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observer, 14 May 2015 @ 6:55am

Re:
"Self-proving example! You kids don't like this idea nor being called "kids" so you'll censor this!"

Au contraire. All that calling people "kids" as an insult does is prove that you're on the fast track to irrelevance, death and oblivion. Have a nice day. :)
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John Fenderson (profile), 14 May 2015 @ 7:52am

Re: Re:
Plus, at my age, I rather enjoy being called a kid.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2015 @ 8:59am

Re: Get What We Deserve
The conservatives have a mandate from fewer than a 27% of the voting population. Our voting system (First past the post) has let us down, in conjunction with the millions of scared and duped adult-children who voted conservative.

Doesn't matter anyway, the system needs to be shaken up from time to time. Better now than later. Time to burn it all to the ground.
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observer, 14 May 2015 @ 9:11am

Re: Re: Get What We Deserve
I'm inclined to wonder whether they've hit the ground running on stuff like this (and the snoopers' charter, practically their first policy announcement after being elected, before their majority was even confirmed) precisely because they know they don't have a popular mandate.
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MirceaKitsune, 14 May 2015 @ 11:33am

The unthinkable
I knew that David Cameron was a weird person, and that the UK had issues with freedom of speech in the past... but this blows your mind beyond any expectation. This is some North Korea grade stuff... happening in the UK, part of the European Union (at least for now) and during year 2015!

What is going on with this planet, because I honestly cannot understand. Is there a plan to turn Britain into the new China? Does this disease risk spreading from the UK to the rest of Europe? Why did Britain vote for these extremists, and is there any hope for those who didn't to save themselves from what this madman and his gang are doing?
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Bill from Over the Hill, 14 May 2015 @ 12:19pm

Re: Policing by Consent
By your logic the Rotherham Rapes were ignored by the Police because of Public Consent. Much different then the US.
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Kyllein MacKellerann, 14 May 2015 @ 1:49pm

Free Speech in Britain
Did I miss something or did they just have an election?
If they lose their freedom of speech, it is something the voted to do.
Democracies, even Parliamentary ones, provide the kind of Government the people deserve... not Want... Deserve.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2015 @ 3:11pm

Sound familiar?
"We had to destroy the village to save it."
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Henry (profile), 14 May 2015 @ 6:27pm

No people ever voted themselves freer
"there's nothing like the First Amendment there -- you don't have to point that out in the comments"

Next time you wonder why Second Amendment activists here won't give an inch... this. Remember that we told you so, both about the UK and about the US.
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jay, 15 May 2015 @ 4:48am

Re: The US Constitution is amazing
Actually the Magna Carta should have covered this, that a person needs to have committed a defined crime before punishment.
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Wendy Cockcroft, 15 May 2015 @ 5:50am

Re: Re: Re: This is a bad thing?
I'm too creeped out to comment any further than to say, "Yeah, that sounds about right."

I live here, damn it, and I don't like the way things are going.

To all Tory voters: don't get to thinking you're on the right side of the police state. Anyone could fall foul of it at any time.

To all Labour supporters: your Glorious Leader Blair started this, so shut up!
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Chaim Heebdo, 15 May 2015 @ 8:42am

"hate speech"
A hundred comments and nobody's pointed out the elephant in the room? Glenn Greenwald won't spell it out either. If you want to know which tribe's feelings need to be protected from "hate speech", go search "Garron Helm Luciana Berger".
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tqk (profile), 15 May 2015 @ 9:39am

Re: "hate speech"
Would that be the Jewish tribe or the Zionist tribe?
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Chaim Heebdo, 15 May 2015 @ 6:21pm

Re: Re: "hate speech"
Criticizing the jews as jews is already regarded as a "hate speech" crime in Britain and many other countries. Expanding that protection to other jurisdictions and to zionists is a work in progress.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 May 2015 @ 1:53pm

Re: And of course all CENSORED yet again!
Now where is kinichi?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 May 2015 @ 3:59pm

Re: Re: The US Constitution is amazing
In the US they've gotten around protections against ex post facto increases in penalties by determining that registration as a criminal is not in itself a punishment because it doesn't directly cause any detriment, and that any other laws which are based on one's registration status are mere administrative practices and not punishments either.

In the UK, the "solution" for ASBOs was that an ASBO wasn't a punishment. I suspect the same argument will be used here. (Remember that the UK's constitution does almost nothing to protect the people from Parliament, only Parliament from the Queen.)
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Anonymous Coward, 17 May 2015 @ 4:18pm

Re: Re:
He could make himself king (but only of the UK, not most of the Commonwealth Realms (probably: the legalities are complicated even if they all agree)) if he could command a majority when Elizabeth dies: Parliament chooses the next king (which is the basis for the restrictions on the monarch's powers: they'll only choose a king who will agree to not use most of his power).
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Anonymous Coward, 17 May 2015 @ 4:35pm

Re: Policing by Consent
That's just a recognition of the fact that the police can't achieve anything in the face of united public opposition: if people resist arrest until beaten into insensibility, refuse to provide statements, don't make complaints about crimes (to them, anyway), and so on, the police become ineffective.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 May 2015 @ 4:49pm

Re: The unthinkable
Why did Britain vote for these extremists, and is there any hope for those who didn't to save themselves from what this madman and his gang are doing?

Partly because the Labour Party were incompetent for the last five years, allowing the Tories to get away with blaming them for the recession and accepting the "There is No Alternative" narrative in justification of Thatcherism, partly because they're abandoning their old support base without securing a new one first, and partly because Ed MIlliband promised to institute press reforms based on the Leveson Report, which got the Tories lots of free support.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 May 2015 @ 4:55pm

Re: No people ever voted themselves freer
But they've already given a mile: the purpose of the Second Amendment is clear, to ensure the people have the means to mount a rebellion, but that position was undermined ever since private posession of artillery was restricted.
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RonF, 18 May 2015 @ 7:44am

Re: Re: The US Constitution is amazing
The Founders decided that two countries - one North, one South, one with slavery and one without - would likely not survive a British assault (e.g., the War of 1812). So rather then lose the South, they compromised. Slavery was permitted, but the number of representatives allocated on the basis of the slave population was reduced by 40% so as to ensure that the South did not have a irreducible majority in the House of Representatives and banned the importation of slaves after a fixed date.

Jefferson (a slave owner himself) among others predicted that it would lead to major conflict down the road. They were right. But at the cost of 600,000 lives slavery was ended and the nation was held together.
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RonF (profile), 18 May 2015 @ 7:51am

Re: Policing by Consent
"In the US you have the police acting by decree; they can do what they damn well please providing it's not explicitly banned and thus they get away with murder."

I love it when non-US citizens or residents attempt to explain how America works to Americans - but highly resent it when Americans offer opinions about how their country works.

American police do not act by decree. What they can and cannot do is as constrained by the Constitution and by law as any other American. And while there have been a few cases that have been very highly publicized by a hostile media as reputedly being murder, subsequent court action based on evidence and testimony generally reveals that the police did not in fact murder.
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RonF (profile), 18 May 2015 @ 8:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "keep the community clean" -- You're for purity, eh?
"not to burst your bubble there but the US government recently admitted they faked the initial moon landings at the time."

That's hilarious. And here I thought you were being SERIOUS about all the other stuff you posted here. Thanks for the laugh!
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RonF (profile), 18 May 2015 @ 8:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "keep the community clean" -- You're for purity, eh?
"not to burst your bubble there but the US government recently admitted they faked the initial moon landings at the time."

That's hilarious. And here I thought you were being SERIOUS about all the other stuff you posted here. Thanks for the laugh!
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SJ39, 21 May 2015 @ 10:56pm

Re: British citizens get what they deserve.
Sadly only about 37% of those who voted actually voted form the Conservatives, the remaining 63% of us who bothered to get out and vote are left frustrated and incredulous that we have this nightmare in power. And don't get me started on the approx 30% of the adult population who didn't vote! That means that in reality only about 20% of the population eligible to vote actually wanted them in power...is our democracy through the first-past-the-post system a wonderous thing?
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